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SF_BHT
04-10-2009, 21:43
On another thread we were commenting about how the Boy Scout experience had helped us in our training and careers.

I thought it would be good to find out from our fellow QP's and fellow board members some of the following.

1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

:munchin:lifter:munchin

BoyScout
04-10-2009, 23:10
1. Yes
2. No, 4 badges away, 2 for Life, made it to Star when I hit 18. I was the troop Instructor though.
3. I have a lot of skills that come in handy in my daily, but honestly it was a major factor in me just growing up.
4. N/A
5. I was lucky enough to have a great Troop, excellent Scout Master and a lot of the values taught are instilled into me today. I use a lot of the skills that I was taught and have taught regularly. I am just a bit rusty with a compass.

SF_BHT
04-10-2009, 23:32
Guess I should post..

1. I was a scout and an adult leader also
2. Eagle with 2 palms ..... Bronze & Gold
3. Every day in my life has been influenced by my scouting experiences. My Scout training helped me in SF training and many aspects of my career. It also helped me in many family things that I have done with my son and daughter. I always tell them that SF only honed my skills I learned in scouts.
4. No but it helped make that decision easier during training.
5. Every boy should have some exposure with the scouts regardless of being from the city or country. The scouts help instill core values and many skills that help young men in their life. We need all the positive influences that we can get today with our kids.

2018commo
04-11-2009, 05:00
1. Yes
2. No, 1st Class but made every camp-out for 5 year.
3. I would guess the benefit of learning the challenges of leadership early in life helped the most. I suspect Phase -One was somewhat easier based on my Scout experience and my general love for the outdoors.
4. My neighbor, a Vietnam Veteran from 5th Group had me eyeballed early, I never had another aspiration.
5. My son joined in October; I am involved in the troop and now teaching new adult leaders (IOLS) in the district. Paying it back.

Snaquebite
04-11-2009, 08:38
1. Yes
2. Yes, with Silver Palm. Order of te Arrow, God and Country, Wood Badge (Also in CubScouts and Webelos)
3. Organizational Skills, problem solving and accepting challenges.
4. Not really, but it did effect the way I looked at military life particularly the challenges during training.
5. Regardless of background and where you grow up, I think this is one of the best opportunities for young boys to mature and grow to face life's obstacles.

Mike792
04-11-2009, 09:07
1. Yes.
2. Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow.
3. Steered me from going down the wrong road as a Teenager. Learned how to swim properly.
4. No. But developed the basis to look for, find and accept challenges.
5. I agree with everyone's comment.

Warrior-Mentor
04-11-2009, 09:15
1. Yes.
2. Eagle.
3. Field craft. Knots & Lashings. Mile swim. Philmont...lots of rucking with weight there...
4. Yes. Met a Vietnam Vet who was a Ranger. Had some great discussions....
5. While other patrols were named "beaver" snake" "wolf" etc...we were the "Airborne" patrol....interestingly we had a arrowhead patch that you might find familiar... somehow, I knew even then where I was going...

Richard
04-11-2009, 09:27
1. Y

2. Star - left after 2 years due to > time commitments in HS sports, 4H, FFA - sports and ag programs were > bigger than scouting in the area I grew up in.

3. Taught me many skills I've used/enhanced throughout my life - especially land nav, first aid, citizenship. My favorite merit badge was the old reptile one with the coiled rattlesnake embroidered in the circle - kinda sad they replaced it.

4. Really don't think so; never gave it much thought.

5. 3 sons - all in Cubs - 2 in Boy Scouts ( 1 Star/1 Eagle) - I still remain a part of a Troop Committe, teach Citizenship in the World, and sit on Eagle Boards.

FWIW - everyone wanted to have a Beaver patrol but our Scoutmaster, a retired Navy CPO, wouldn't allow it because he knew exactly what we were thinking...so we were the Eagle patrol. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

BigJimCalhoun
04-11-2009, 09:37
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
Yes
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
Yes
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
I did not serve, but think it helped with maturity at an earlier age.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
NA
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
I think it was a great organization when I was in (80s). I am not sure how it is now as I am not involved. I am thinking about becoming a merit badge counselor. My son is too young for scouts at this time.

f50lrrp
04-11-2009, 16:37
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

Yes, I was a Scout.

Yes, I was an Eagle Scout.

I used the experiences constantly while serving my Country both in the Military and as a civilian. An example is using the map and compass training that the Scouts taught me helped get me selected for the Rangers.

I think on a subliminal level it may have contributed.

I am still a Scout Leader with over 50 years affiliated as an adult and a youth. I have been honored to serve my council as the 1st Venturing Advisor in the U.S. (Crew 2000) and to be named a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow.

Remington Raidr
04-11-2009, 17:03
Life Scout, continued into the Explorers.

On one weekend campout, we had a new assistant scoutmaster, tall and skinny, looked kinda like Jerry Reed if memory serves. He didn't say much and he didn't attend church, which, at the time was a big WTF, as our troop was sponsored by the parish. The dad/scoutmaster that bought him along said he had served in the Marines in the early years of the Viet Nam war.

One night, only he and I remained sitting around the campfire, everyone else had turned in. At the time, I was sure that I would enlist in some capacity. Wanting to start a conversation I asked him "if there was ONE thing you would tell someone going to the RVN what would it be?"

Now, since then, I have spoken with hundreds of vets with varying experiences and more than one bigmouthed poser. Couple questions, yeah he was never even in, done. This was not the case here.

He thought about my question for a few seconds, looked me right in the eye, and said "If you shoot them and they go down slow you got 'em, but if they drop quick you missed."

Hey, I asked.

I made for a very short but memorable conversation for this 11 year old.

Dozer523
04-11-2009, 23:31
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?
Yes Troop 122 in Nurenberg Germnay, Troop 21in Heidelberg, Some civilian (church) affiliated troop in Colo Sprs -- can't remember it's number.
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank? I made Life. Not making Eagle is one of the few things I regret in my life.
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life?
Yes, I already knew a lot of fieldcraft. I had understood about Being Prepared and Doing a Good deed Daily. The Scout Law works everywhere anytime.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?
I don't think it guided me toward it but it did help me stay the course.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military? I have two boys in Scouts. The "ShortStop" just made First Class The "Little Dude" is a Tiger Cub. BTW We took a little Spring Break" to Destin FL and LD got a little seperated from Mom (not too fun) He was found sitting near a dune that had a good view of the beach -- near "the last place I (he) remembered seeing Mom". When asked, he said "I remembered it from Tiger Cubs"

Oh yeah and this. The 16yo daughter brought the first official boy-friend home.
He actually defied the little princess by accepting the challenge to drop by an extended family gathering.
He can carry on a multi-sylabic conversation.
He waxed eloquent regarding the honor of being the Senior Class President and how proud he will be when he completes his Eagle Project.
I notice him in church every week and he introduced the Mom and I to his Mom and Dad after Easter Mass.

DAMN! I was so hoping the first five or six would be trolls I could frighten away!

PSM
04-12-2009, 00:26
1. Yes, briefly. There was no real interest or support from boys or fathers in my town. Junior Achievement, FFA, and 4H were far more popular.

2. No

3. I joined because the troop was getting free Private Pilot Ground School. From there I got my PP ticket. After the Army I used my bennies to get my Commercial and Dispatcher's license. (Which led to meeting my future, present, and only wife, another Dispatcher.)

4. N/A

5. Probably more valuable today than ever before. Most of us FOGs learned a lot of the skills taught in Scouting from our grandparents or parents.

Pat

bravo22b
04-12-2009, 07:29
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

1. yes
2. didn't make it very far...probably 2nd or 1st class Scout
3. it was a good introduction to fieldcraft. I don't know how much I actually took away from it, but I definitely learned that I liked being out in the field and I spent hours reading the Boy Scout Handbook learning survival skills.
4. N/A
5. My heart wasn't really in the Scouts, probably because it wasn't quite "military" enough to really keep my attention. It was, however, a good experience, and if I ever have kids, I would certainly encourage them to do it. I ended up in Civil Air Patrol, which has its faults, but there I really started to learn the skills that would help me in the Army. Land nav, rappelling, long marches, etc., plus I came into contact with a lot of veterans, as well as other like minded teenagers. I know at least one of my peers from CAP went SF (5th Group), and many more who went Marines, Rangers, and infantry.

RIP CPT Brian Faunce.

albeham
04-12-2009, 08:53
1. Yes, was a Cub scout and a Boy scout, for a short time. Moved a lot due to Navy. Today I am a Cub Master. I have a Boy in scouts, advancing into WEBLOS, and a girl that is in Girl Scouts.

2. Tenderfoot, The Navy was not for me.

3. Like others. It helped me to learn field craft, giving me a good sense in the woods before the Army. But above all a connection to our country. Yes, it had and is continuing with me in my lifes Skill sets. Got into Ham Radio while in Scouts, at the age of 15, I did years as a 18E, now I am Electronic Engineer, in the RF discipline. Yes, it is a big impact in my life.

4. It helped

5. The Scouting program should be lived by every boy. Its not just fun in the woods, the outdoor life, but its the connections that are made every time a leader leads, a boy discovers. Its a great way to set the example of our love of our country and pass it on to the future leaders of our country.
Heading to Philmont Scout Ranch this Summer..Road Trip.. :munchin

Fiercely Loyal
04-12-2009, 12:45
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
Yes. Started out in Cub Scouts, active in boy scouts up until I was 17, and I even was a Counselor for Cub Scout summer camp one summer.
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
I only made it to Star. When I was 16 I went to a Military Youth Academy and turned 17 just two weeks after 9/11. I joined the military and had a lot less time for scouting.
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
I think that not having a father in my case it helped immeasurably provide me with a good moral foundation. It also taught me field craft that I put to use professionally and personally all the time. Being prepared!! I always have the gear I need and then some.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
Actually the training influences my decisions greatly pertaining to this. After my return from this deployment I'd like to attend selection. If I could get paid to camp and teach other people how to survive and fight, it wouldn't get much better.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc
GET INVOLVED!! If I didn't have scout leaders I have no idea how I'd be today.

VVVV
04-12-2009, 22:15
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?

Yes, for about 3 years.


2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank?

No, 2nd Class... Didn't make 1st Class, because I didn't get the hang of Morse code. Kinda funny, because I wound up being an 05B4S:D - 18E to you young bucks!

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.

The fieldcraft skills learned in the troop and at Boy Scout summer camp have been very useful in both.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?

No.

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc?

I think Scouting is something every youngster should have the opportunity to experience. The quality of the experience is proportional to the quality of the leadership in the troop.

mojaveman
04-12-2009, 23:11
Looking back on my youth I wish I would have had the opportunity to spend some time with the Scouts. I think that it is a very positive thing for a young man to do. Unfortunately I grew up in a rural area and didn't have the chance. But in a sense growing up in the country did help me with the military in some ways because I spent a lot of time hiking, camping, fishing, and shooting.

Razor
04-13-2009, 10:54
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?

Spent 4 years in Cub Scouts (no Tiger Scouts back in my day), earned the Arrow of Light; spent 7 years in Boy Scouts. I've been involved as an adult Scouter for the last 4 years at both the Cub Scout and Boy Scout level.


2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank?

Yes. Also OA. I wish I had stayed active after finishing my Eagle to apply my additional merit badges towards palms, but I got distracted by the fumes in high school--exhaust fumes and perfumes ;)

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.

In civilian life, it started me down the road to being self-sufficient and increased my comfort with living in the woods. It also broadened my understanding of citizenship and many other skills I may not have sought out to learn on my own (through earning various merit badges). On the mil side, it helped my fieldcraft, navigation, first aid knowledge and knots, and provided the seeds I'd later develop into my understanding and practice of leadership.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?

Not really, but I feel it gave me a leg up in some of the training, since I had done something similar to it before in Scouts (esp. the lashinging in SFAS)

5. Any other comments about Scouts and the military, etc.?

I find Scouting to be a great program. Sure, it has its faults, but the benefit derived is IMO far greater. Its served as a great opportunity for me to teach my boys many of the things I wanted them to learn growing up, and teaches them that hard work can indeed pay off.

Speaking of hard work, I recently happened across a letter from Mike Rowe to a Scout regarding earning the Eagle rank that was posted on another forum. I've attached it to this post. His stats are just a little off, but the point is still valid. The more I learn about this guy, the more I like him.

Richard
04-13-2009, 11:13
Didn't make 1st Class, because I didn't get the hang of Morse code. Kinda funny, because I wound up being an 05B4S:D - 18E to you young bucks!

I can appreciate that one - I struggled with Morse code, too. Fortunately, learning semaphore (using signal flags to send messages) was an alternative back then and I was able to pass. :D

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Books
04-13-2009, 11:17
1. Yep, but I had problems with organizations with rules. . . didn't last much beyond 2nd Class. The troop I was involved in was big on climbing/camping/etc and less focused on rank.
2. Rank: see prior note.
3. Did Boy Scouts help me? As a kid, I was a whole bag of mess and BS was a good thing for me; should have stayed in longer rather than skipping out and going the petty criminal path (which, in it's own small way help prepare me for SF as well). Interestingly, I did a trip with some TACPs about a month a go up Mt. Rainier to do Cold weather training (snow caves, cold weather medicine) and it was the first time since I was 13 where I had built a snow cave. Good times.
4. Not really. . . I've always wanted to be a sneaky pete. I was a sneaky pete as a Boy Scout and it got me into a little bit of trouble then.
5. I think Scouting is a fantastic program and wholeheartedly support it. I've thought at times that I might want to be a Scout Master or work with Explorers if only I wouldn't leave for work on such a regular basis.

bricklayer
04-13-2009, 16:17
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
- Yes. Tiger Cubs , Weblos & Boy Scouts. My whole family including my mother who was the first woman to be inducted into tha Order of the Arrow was involved in scouting. My father was a Scoutmaster before I was born and was proud as hell the day he pinned my Eagle Badge on me.

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
- Yes, Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow, Camp Cadre for 4 years, Bsa Lifeguard

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
- Leadership, Land Nav, Pioneering, Common Sense & Maturity. Ended up meeting the love of my life at summer camp! That was the Camp Nurses Daughter not my Scoutmaster:p

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
- Most Definetely

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc
- It was better than sitting on the couch all summer playing video games and eating chips all day. Everthing I ever learned in the Scouts I have applied to my everyday life and has put me a step ahead of my peers at all times.

SF_BHT
04-13-2009, 18:39
No, 2nd Class... Didn't make 1st Class, because I didn't get the hang of Morse code. Kinda funny, because I wound up being an 05B4S:D - 18E to you young bucks!


Guess the Scouts had Higher Standards than the Military.....:p

It kicked my ass also and I learned semaphore like Richard did.

f50lrrp
04-14-2009, 11:17
Semaphore got me through my 1st Class requirements, too. When I was in RVN my Morse abilities were so bad that my four letter ID was ... .... .. -

BoyScout
04-14-2009, 16:36
Heading to Philmont Scout Ranch this Summer..Road Trip.. :munchinI remember getting my Arrowhead and my first 50 Miler award. It's something I took pleasure in earning. 614C2 (the number assigned to our group) is still burned into my head and it's been nearly 2 decades since I was there. Enjoy it every minute of it, I did.

ksgbobo
04-28-2009, 12:03
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?

Yes, Cub Scouts, Weblos and Boy Scouts.

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank?

No, I got Life Scout. I was playing alot of sports around the age of 16 and did not have too much time for Scouts. I regret not getting Eagle, because I and a couple others from our group never got Eagle.

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life?

No military experience, yet. In my civilian life, the morals and values that Scouts has taught me has helped. I follow the motto of Being Prepared everyday of my life.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?

No.

5. Any other comments about Scouts and the Military etc etc etc.

Scouting is a great program that teaches young men skills, morals and values that will help them in their lives. I think about my Scouting experiences all the time and the fun I had. Every boy should participate in Scouting, and I hope to get more involved in Scouting than I already am.

Axe
04-28-2009, 12:36
Speaking of hard work, I recently happened across a letter from Mike Rowe to a Scout regarding earning the Eagle rank that was posted on another forum. I've attached it to this post. His stats are just a little off, but the point is still valid. The more I learn about this guy, the more I like him.

I am printing that one for my 14-yo son, a Life Scout with a Service project left that he has been delaying. Thanks for posting that letter, Razor.

rocknrolla
04-28-2009, 16:07
1. Yes.
2. Eagle Scout and OA.
3. Two most important lessons learned through the Scouts: Follow through on things you begin, and Be Prepared.
4. N/A
5. I was fortunate enough to be part of a great Troop that was actively involved in the community. I still know people i met through various Scout related activities, like Scouting for Food, etc. The Scoutmaster and other troop leaders did a great job organizing hiking, mountain biking, skiing, camping, whitewater rafting, and various other adventure trips. Summer camps at Camp Yawgoog in Rockville, RI are some of the fondest memories i have as a young man.

commobuddha
05-07-2009, 04:03
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?

Yep. Troop 342 - Raleigh, NC.

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank?

Eagle Scout.

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.

For me, the real contribution of Scouting was learning how to work with a group of people that I had nothing else in common with.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?

Scouting didn't guide me towards SF, but it showed me that if I put my mind to it, I could get done what needed to be done. That's helped me out a lot over the years.

5. Any other comments about Scouts and the military, etc.?

My Troop was fortunate enough to have several former military parents as leaders. Their experiences with herding cats must have helped them when faced by a room full of awkward teenagers with pocketknives.

Cagekicker
06-12-2009, 17:57
1. Yes
2. Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow
3. Provided the fundamentals to help me grow up, have better SA and basic skills. Survival, Road marching, shooting, uniform preparation, etc.
4. No, but it helped with my decision to go into the Infantry.
5. I think BSA is something every kid should go into and that our youth will be much better off in life with the core fundamentals that they are taught... I also think that Boy Scouts is a "civilian" version of JROTC, only without military ranking and "objectives". :)

ZonieDiver
06-12-2009, 19:29
On another thread we were commenting about how the Boy Scout experience had helped us in our training and careers.

1. Yes, though my tenure was short-lived.
2. I never attained ANY rank.
3. The Boy Scout Manual of the time was my guide to life! I had one many years before I even joined a Boy Scout Troop. I would give my soul for that manual.
4. It did not guide me toward SF, but once I made that decision it was invaluable in helping me complete my goal. The fieldcraft I knew and practiced as of assistance not only in testing, but in training.
5. Good Scout leaders are essential, and in short supply (IMHO).

alright4u
06-12-2009, 23:11
. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

1. Yes.
2. No. Explorer with all badges for Eagle. Father was transferred.
3. Authority/discipline/goals.
4. No.
5. The NCO's spent many hours teaching scouts. Add baseball, football, boxing, plus how to shoot pool. Years ago, the USMA considered being an Eagle scout as an attribute. I recall the time those NCO's spent with me.

Lmmsoat
06-13-2009, 10:17
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
-Yes, cub scouts through boy scouts

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
-Yes, Eagle. Earned enough for a palm but never sought to get it awarded. I was too busy chasing my future wife.

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
-First, the leadership skills I learned in scouting has helped me from the beginning of basic through present day. Second, it helped me appreciate the effectiveness of teamwork. It's a testimony to scouting when you watch over a dozen teens erect a bivouac site that would make any drill sergeant proud.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
-I believe so. I think the person you are today is a reflection of the experiences you have had in the past. Working in small groups of tightly knit scouts, I think, made me seek out the same type of environment in the military. You can't get any tighter than an SFODA.

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
-I believe scouting is a great opportunity for young kids. One of the greatest character builders in the modern times.

TF Kilo
06-14-2009, 00:52
1) Yes, troop 599 in California.

2) Never made Eagle, attained 1st class.

3) Scout training helped in many aspects, lashings, packing stuff to be able to ruck easier, some woods skills.

4) I didn't go SF, but I think it had some effect on my desire to become a Ranger.

5) My first scoutmaster was a vietnam veteran and passed on a large amount of woods knowledge that I later recognized as field training, once I started getting taught many of the same tricks while active duty. Basically everything I did in the Scouts was directly relevant to a required skill for someone in Regiment.. Swimming, shooting, hiking, orienteering, span of control, planning... I was my patrol leader 2 months after I joined the troop and spent a year in that position, then was chosen by my peers as senior patrol leader and remained there for 4 years until I enlisted.

alright4u
06-14-2009, 05:47
Explorer No. CRS again. I was Life Scout.

Jake0331
06-15-2009, 02:43
1. I joined the Boy Scouts when I was 14. Late start, but I figured I needed all the "resume" meat I could get for a West Point application. Too many sports plus scouts equals bad grades in school - I enlisted as a jarhead instead!

2. Got my Eagle the week before I turned 18, by the skin of my teeth.

3. Four months after reporting into my fleet unit, we flew to Bridgeport, CA for a month of mountain warfare school. My scouting experience gave a me huge advantage over 99% (+ or -) of the battalion due to field crafts such as pioneering, survival, and orienteering. 19 year old kid as a team leader felt pretty good.

4. I'm not SF, but it definitely gave me confidence as a grunt.

5. Maybe it's just my experience on the "Left" coast, but it seems to me that much of the moral integrity of the scouts is being eroded away. I think it's the finest organization any boy could be a part of, but it's under relentless attack by deviants in America.
Quick side story: One summer camp I attended a few times; Camp Parsons. My troop was a bunch of studs and we won EVERY competition. Well, until an all-Korean troop from San Fran flew up to camp one year. These kids were ultra militant - uniforms gigged up, close-cropped hair, and motivated like you wouldn't believe! And this troop was massive! At least 100 strong. They cleaned house and stole our thunder.

Situ Shanren
08-10-2009, 14:45
1. Started as the lowliest of lows in the Cub Scouts and worked my way through the ranks of Boy Scouts.
2. I was one merit badge away from earning my Eagle. I regret it now, but for me, Boy Scouts was a venue which provided the opportunities for me to be in the wilderness and learn outdoor skills. I regret not pursuing the Eagle all the way because it let my mother down (she worked hard to help me with what I deemed were boring merit badges). That's a loss of honor that I'm trying to make better now.
3. I'm more comfortable in the wilderness than I am in the city. I feel more at home in the forest because of the campouts we went on as Scouts. It's also imbued a desire to rank-up and earn higher achievements to better prepare myself for the future.
4. Although I'm not a quiet professional, Scouting was a major cornerstone of my life and seemed to create a force that has been pushing me towards becoming SF.
5. I know my achievements are miniscule compared to the heroes I'm posting with, but this far into my IET phase of training, I've achieved the highest honors in both schools, and I attribute a large part of that to the upbringing I had from Boy Scouts. Every boy needs to join and maybe then we can save a degenerating society of new youth.

civil
08-28-2009, 09:50
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
Started in cubs and moved up the ranks

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank.
Yes I obtained Eagle at 17 and held almost all roles at one time in my troop, all leadership positions were elected in our troop and I held them all (except assistant scout master)

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
I am not currently serving yet I think it helps me every day. From the skills I developed in communication, leadership and morals they are all called upon daily.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
Hmm that's an interesting one, the scouts showed me how much I enjoy the outdoors, adventure and helping others and a real feeling of team spirit. So I think that although not consciously yes scouts did influence my decision.

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
From the contacts I still have that are involved it has become very political and they are not allowed to do nearly the fun stuff we did (blowing up dead trees with tons of bottle rockets and fire crackers). A lot of the skills are still taught, yet I get the feeling that a lot was lost with all the political correctness crap they now have to do, and the council is supposedly overbearing on the troops.

commosgt
08-31-2009, 13:57
I was in Scouts
Got my Eagle day before my 18th Birthday (That was a close one)
OA, though was never very active.
We had a very active troop, Attended the Natl. Jamboree in 2001 at AP hill
Did Phillmont in '04
The biggest thing about scouts that helped me in the Military was getting use to working with a group out doors. Divide and conquer so to speak. the basic field craft learned in Scouts has also helped me pick up military field craft quickly.
Getting my Eagle was the Single greatest thing I could have done with my life before the Army and I recommend that all young men get involved in the BSA.

Matt520
08-31-2009, 20:59
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts?
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank? (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life?
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF?
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military?


1. Yes.
2. Eagle (I was not allowed to get my driver's license until I finished!!!).
3. It has helped me everyday in regards to being prepared, having integrity, etc.
4. I'm going through MEPS next week to start the process (I'm confident what I learned in scouts can be applied in SF).
5. Boy Scouts helped me stay out of trouble and realize that there is more to life and relationships with others than we think!

Diablo Blanco
09-29-2009, 16:35
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts

Yes

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)

Mighty Mighty Webelo (keep reading)

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.

My troop was mostly an excuse for the dad's to go camping and drink. We had no supervision. Once the sun went down the gloves came off. We spent most of our time brawling each other. I learned more about fighting a mob in the dark than a middle schooler should. My family didn't have a lot of money so I was the kid with the old school tent that required guylines and two poles to stay upright (like a shelter half, only flimsier) needless to say a few other scouts found it funny to constantly kick the lines out. I spent a lot of nights throwing fists.

Our scout master's were cheap but on the educational side. They'd throw us some raw food like eggs or meat and tell us to cook it or starve. We didn't have lighters, matches, or any training so we reinvented fire all by ourselves. One time I just cracked the egg into my mouth and called it a day. They took my tent away that night. Sleeping under the stars soon became a favorite.

One important lesson I learned was to improvise, overcome and adapt. And of course Be Prepared (I'm borderline OCD with preparedness)

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.

Didn't. Someone needs to stay with the line companies and show them the right way to go.

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

My first three badges were Wilderness Survival, Orienteering and Archery. I waited too long to make my shelter for Wilderness Survival and ended up with a teepee of just logs. It rained that night, hard. I shivered my way through the October rain and earned my badge like a champ.

My orienteering badge was earned at night (no day course). It consisted of me running full speed through the woods blindly running into barbed wire and falling into holes. I finished the course in record time with a few scratches on my thick skin.

Archery badge was earned with a bow I made myself. Not the prettiest thing in the world but it got the job done. I mentioned I didn't have a lot of money and the scout masters were cheap right?

The story of my first three badges basically sums up many of my experiences in the military. To this day I train my troops in the same manner I trained myself. I challenge them to think for themselves, create solutions and drive hard until the mission is done. I teach them that even though there is a NCO and Officer that is responsible and accountable for them it is ultimately up to them to finish the fight.

Tatonka316
09-29-2009, 17:06
1. Yes
2. Yes - My dad always regretted not making it to Eagle, so I was so glad I made it to Eagle Scout 2 days before he crossed over. After he died, I went to work to help the family, so I got out of BSA, but I never would have been ready for that responsibility as a 14 year old.
3. Independent thinking, quest for learning, adapt and improvise were all skills that I learned and have used almost everyday of my life since.
4. Going through Scouts with my dad and spending time with him and wanting to follow in his footsteps helped guide me toward the military. When Chris was young, the Scouts were not "cool", so we did the things together that I learned from my dad and Scouting, and it made a significant difference in BOTH our lives!
5. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's replies to this thread!!! It has not surprised me a bit to see so many warriors learned some of their trade initially in Scouting!!! Would be a very interesting study to look at QP's over time and their relationship to Scouting.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STARTING THIS THREAD!!!

molon labe:lifter

LongWire
10-27-2009, 08:27
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts? YES....Has anyone that responded said No?

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank? Eagle Scout 7 palms: 2 silver and a 3rd bronze.

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life? Sure has and provided me with the foundation of accepting responsibility and facing challenges for what they are.......future lessons.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF? Can't say that it did either way, I know how to push hard, but I would give more of that credit to Ranger Bn.

5. Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
I think its a good primer for boys who may someday be in the military, as well as being a good experience for young men altogether. I know they took a major hit when they had the lawsuit for discrimination, and realistically who wants to expose their child to that type of thing. I remember there was a Naval Officer who was one of my Assistant Scoutmaster's for the 85 National Jamboree at Ft A.P. Hill Va. Found out a couple of yrs later that he was picked up for kiddy porn, Not F***en Cool.

Mitch
10-28-2009, 01:38
I am reluctant to even mention this here – it is unflattering to me, and a story that goes against what we all respect in each other – namely, guys who are expected to be hard as nails and able to take anything handed out and ask for more. That may be the case – for a young soldier, but should it apply to an 11 year old tenderfoot?

I tried scouting for about 3 months - one of the darker memories I had as a kid growing up. I subscribed to Boys Life and read about the Scouts for a couple of years prior to turning 11 when I could actually join. I will never forget the day after I did turn 11, I went up to the local Episcopal Church off of Elizabeth Ave in Fort Worth - officially joined the troop. Having read about Scouts for years, having watched all he Spin & Marty movies from Disney it was one of the happiest days of my young life.

That next day, I had a list of things I needed to buy. My uniform, a scout guide book, a scout knife, etc. My parents took me to Leonard Brothers Store in Fort Worth to get all the gear and - the next week I showed up in all my regalia. That was probably the last good day I had as a scout.

I did not know about the Initiation rites that were in vogue back then - becoming a slave for all the other guys, becoming a patsy for every joke, getting slammed to the ground repeatedly in some game we were playing in which I seemed to be the object of the game - I recognized what was going on, but wanted to be a Scout so much I just went along with it - until the Camperee two months later - a total disaster, also my last week as a scout.
Everything I had was stolen from me - my tent was torn down several times, finally it was thrown into the creek near by - without a tent, me and this other newbie had to sleep in the open - it was a cloudless night so we didn't have to worry about rain, until the eggs started flying. During the night, about every five minutes, an egg would get lobbed into our sleeping area - eventually I woke up the Scout Master and complained - he laughed and told me to just hang in there, the other guys were just having fun. Getting no help from him, the other guy and I climbed up in a tree and spent the night there - staying awake, no one saw us up there, but we saw them come looking for us - we stayed quiet, I do remember wishing I had a few bricks with me.
When I finally got home the next day, I had no hat, no tent, no knife, no scout book, just an egg stained sleeping bag and back pack. I never went back. I was young, just a few months past 11 years old.

Perhaps if my dad had been a Scout, he could have prepared me better, or taken a greater interest, or if the Scout Master had lived up to the image as portrayed in Boy’s Life – it would have been different, but as it was, I was just too green and felt no encouragement from anyone to continue. Also, I never learned whether what went on with me was normal or an abortion.

The frustration of that experience stayed with me for years - later on when I went into the Army - I kept my guard up, but that is when I noticed the difference - in Basic - we got abused, but we all did, together, not just me – it wasn’t the same. It was better – it was real. By the time I went into SF that scouting experiacne was basically forgotten - a non factor, but all the same, I made sure that nothing, no person, no amount of abuse, nor any humiliating act was going to keep me away from my goal – don’t know if that is actually a correlation or not – but that Camperee at age 11 was the last time I ever let anyone get the better of me – I don’t credit scouting for that, but I do credit my personal scouting experience as having value in preparing me, maturing me and giving me some insight into myself.

SF_BHT
10-28-2009, 07:40
Mitch

I feel for you and yes I have seen hazing but the Troop Adult and Senior Scout leadership should have controlled it. I have seen over the years some troops out of control and I always would up with some new troop members when they saw how our troop operated.

I wish you had a better experience as what you ran into was not the norm in Scouts. Boys will be boys but they need to be supervised as to not turn away young men like you.

Looks like you turned out OK..............

The Reaper
10-28-2009, 08:25
Mitch:

I am sorry that happened to you.

As noted, that was a leadership failure. Boys do not play "Lord of the Flies" with responsible adults present.

Our son has been in scouting since he was five or six. While the younger boys will go running through the woods at night with chemlites, flashlights, and sticks, the adults always rein them in before it gets too far out of control. IMHO, it is because few of them are allowed to use their outside voices enough and be boys.

I was not a scout, but our son is, and it is one of the highlights of his life. He loves to go camping and participating in scout activities.

TR

Mitch
10-28-2009, 09:16
Thanks for the comments – all I can say is that this was 50 years ago, believe me, I am over it – but for those of you who are still involved as adult leaders or members of various counsels, I am sure you have heard stories like mine before – but if not, just remember, that 50 years from now, some FOG may be talking about scouts, just like I am – that would be an unnecessary tragedy.

Boys are so eager to emulate their adult leaders - that's why Scouting, good scouting is so valuable for those that get a fair shake – it comes from enlightened leadership. The period of time that boys are introduced into scouting is one of the most critical times of their lives, they can be shaped and molded into most anything at that time – they can become Eagle Scouts or Suicide Bombers.

I have also been able to put this experience in proper perspective – this was a rotten troop with rotten leadership, It should have been taken down – these days, I am sure it would be.

PedOncoDoc
10-28-2009, 09:25
I was never in the Scouts - they did not have strong representation in my school system as a child.

My son can't wait to join and I will be there with him as far as he is able to go.

At 5 y/o he can already unpack and deploy a tent, has hiked his own pack 3 miles into the woods then 3 miles back out. He also handles a knife safer than a lot of adults I know. :lifter

My father was an Eagle scout and I've heard too many great stories from him and others to allow my son to pass up the opportunities provided.

lksteve
10-28-2009, 09:50
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.

1. Yes.
2. No. I made it to First Class...like others, I relied on semaphore over Morse Code...I wasn't much of a swimmer...swam well enough to make First Class, but there was no way I was going to pass the Lifesaving regimen...oddly enough, I wound up on a Scout Swim team in SF...
3. What I learned in Scouting was useful...to this day, there are elements that I use from time to time, particularly some of the elementary elements of map and compass work...I used the Boy Scout Manual when I was training Lieutenants in bone-head land nav at IOBC...
4. My father was a soldier, my uncles were soldiers, to my knowledge, all of my male cousins were soldiers...going into the Armed Forces was a given in my family...SF...I was influenced more by an article in National Geographic than I was my Boy Scout experience...that said, some of the stuff I learned as a scout were helpful in Phase I under COL Beckwith's administration...
5. As an adult, I served as an assistant scout master...I don't regret not going farther as a scout myself, as my father's PCS moves made continuity difficult and as I got older, other activities (sports, girls) got in the way of scouting...

Razor
10-30-2009, 21:30
I was influenced more by an article in National Geographic than I was my Boy Scout experience...

lksteve, would that have been a late 60s NatGeo about a team trying to quell a Montagnard rebellion? If so, that was my first "exposure" to SF as well, and the hors d'oevre that whet my appetite for much more.

lksteve
10-30-2009, 21:35
lksteve, would that have been a late 60s NatGeo about a team trying to quell a Montagnard rebellion? If so, that was my first "exposure" to SF as well, and the hors d'oevre that whet my appetite for much more.Probably 1962 or 1963...I was around ten when the article came out..we were living in CSprings at the time as my dad was stationed at Fort Carson, may have even already shipped out to Berlin...

wtf_over
12-15-2009, 01:26
1. Yes
2. Eagle Scout
3. BSA played an important role in my life as a young kid growing up on the Northern east coast I experienced some of the best cold weather,hot humid weather, camping hiking, backpacking, canoeing ect. a kid could ever experience. I also made Order of the Arrow (those who are members can appreciate this little Fraternity) Several Scout masters and Asst SM's were prior military all of whom my fellow scoutsand I learned from and respected two were Combat Veterns of Vietnam one a Korea war vet. An influence that made me pursue my first enlistment into the Marine Corps after High School back in '97.
4. The drives are there to my precieved intentions at some level of course BSA taught me to not give up and to stay focused as per SF (time will tell)
5. my boys are still too young for scouting but my older son is nearing the age and I will absolutly encourage him to try cub,weblos and BSA as he gets a bit older. I only truly wish more parent would take the time to put their sons into scouting it is such a rewarding life experience.

albeham
12-15-2009, 06:01
Gents,

Many you know that I am a Cub Master like some of you, and soonest I'll be a Scout Master. like more of you.

I am not only excited, but dedicated to give back to the program. that awe-inspiring adventure that Scouting can be., that it does for.

At out RT last night, a group of OA did the most amazing Flag ceremony , all I could feel , think, that these young men, are the future leaders of our county. The same America that we , to this day defend.

I'm a young 44 yrs old, and hope, God willing, to see not only my Sons, sons, but help many others see there Sons though the Scouting Adventure.

I would like to hear what works in your troop, please PM me.
Stay safe.... On my Honor ...

wet dog
02-06-2010, 21:47
With all this talk lately about Scouting and Pinewood Derby's I thought I'd post.

Besides I missed "Friday Night at the Movies".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjR9cYzD4pQ&feature=PlayList&p=3C13012DA573E7E8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=17

Razor
02-08-2010, 15:23
On a related topic, Happy 100th Birthday BSA, and thanks Mr. Boyce for the personal efforts and cash to make this organization happen.

AirbornePFC
02-21-2010, 22:24
Scouting is what got me interested in the military. I made eagle and continue to volunteer with the local troop 276 in Indiana. One thing from scouting that means more to me than my eagle badge is something called firecrafter. It is unique to our council and has three primary ranks that can only be earned one a year at summer camp. The 3rd rank or "Firecrafter" rank is the toughest and involve multiple survival skills and centers around making fire from a self constructed bow and drill set. Leadership is also a huge part of earning the award. I have always said if I had to choose I'd keep that patch over my eagle. The week spent earning that patch rivals the stress and intensity of some of my limited military training. Things I learned in scouting....

How to cook.
How to do dishes.
How to cook so you don't have to do dishes.
How to survive in the woods with virtually nothing.
Self confidence.
How to pack a backpack (ruck)
How to hike (choose boots and gear etc)
How to talk to, and stand up to adults.
How to lead from the front.

The list could go on for pages those are just a few. I'm sorry that not all have had great scouting experiences, but I can say it was a huge pillar in my youth and helped guide me toward where I am now. Basic training, in my book, is just scout camp on steroids! Would recommend either (military or scouting) to any young man.

Chris O`Crooh
02-22-2010, 16:00
Best wishes on World Thinking Day to all scouts and people that can be a benchmark for scouts - I know that there is a few of them here ;)

We call WWD in Poland "Dzien Mysli Braterskiej" - "Brotherhood Thinking Day", and I find that version quite accurate and right.

So, Brothers Scouts and Sisters Guides, all the best!

mark46th
02-23-2010, 09:21
I was asked to leave my Cub Scout troop for being disruptive when I was 9.

I learned my outdoor craft from my father who started taking me fishing when I was 3 and hunting when I was 5. I didn't get to take game until I passed the Hunter's Safety class at age 11. I remember some of the instructors in Training Group were surprised that a city boy from Southern California was good in the field...

motivated99
04-27-2010, 09:26
1. Yes
2. Eagle Scout
3. Boy scouts gave me a love for the outdoors and enjoying challenges. Coming from a heavily congested suburban area I was the only one in my group of friends (outside of BSA) to develop love of the outdoors. It taught me so many valuable skills but most of all gave me a sense of national pride and honor, which in my opinion is lacking in our youth today.
4. I'm a civilian right now but it definitely increased my interest in the military.
5. Where else does a boy get to shoot guns, climb mountains, orienteer, rappel and spend some time under a pack?

Santo Tomas
04-27-2010, 10:24
I earned Life Scout. I have served as a Scout Master. My son is an Eagle.

We are both OA.

I honestly don't think I would be here today if not for some of the things I learned in scouting.

Best program a young boy can get in to.

rdret1
04-27-2010, 16:20
I was never in the Scouts. I grew up on a cattle ranch in Texas. If I wasn't in school, I was working with my Dad. He taught me everything I needed. From the time I was 5 years old, I was horseback with him working cattle. He got me to shooting and hunting around 7 years old. He taught me to run a trap line. I used to supplement my money in school that way. We used to get anywhere from $25 - $40 for a good raccoon, $45 for a bobcat, $30 for a set of coyote ears and $2 apeice for a possum or muskrat.

My closest neighbor was 5 miles away so if I wanted to go hunting by myself, I just went. I spent a lot of time on the creek in the woods.

SkiBumCFO
04-27-2010, 17:34
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

1. Yes, I was. Joined a troop as it was formed so we had no older scouts we were the plankholders and I was a patrol leader.
2. I can't remember highest level and I was asked to leave the troop/boy scouts after a few years - got in trouble at boy scout camp
3. I loved getting out into the woods which i am sure helped later in life and being in a leadership position from Day 1 was a lot of help
4. wanted to be SF even before boy scouts so the answer would be no.
5. Though I was a Boy Scout reject (they loved me up until i got in trouble - go figure) one of my closest friends in 10th grp was an Eagle Scout. He is one of the finest men i know and he retired as a Bn SGM.

Combat Diver
05-16-2010, 13:34
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.




1. Yes, Cub Scout, Weblous (Arrow of Light), Boy Scout, Order of the Arrow, Scoutmaster
2. Yes, made Eagle just before 18 and pinned it on during delayed entry.
3. Give me lots of field craft and self confidence. Phase 1 just honed those skills I already had and only thing new as patrolling.
4. Not nessesary as I already planned a life in the military (USAF brat) however when hiking in Philmont when I was 17 the experience of being out alone with 12 guys humping a ruck in middle of nowhere threwout the thought of going into the Marine Corps as a tanker. Ended up enlisting on a SF contract less then a year later.
5. Baden Powell started the Boy Scouts as a stepping stone to the military. Some of my fondest memories was as a 24 yr old Scoutmaster in Bad Tolz, Germany taking the scouts through the Alps and Italy (course fathers were all SF too)

CD

albeham
08-09-2010, 21:04
Looks like their are a lot of us that scouts have been a big part of our lives.

So here is a good question:

The 4 Rivers District of the Baltimore Council is looking at doing a wilderness survival type camp-out, or merit badge support for the Boy Scouts troops.

I though it would be not only cool, but a great influence if a team or two would help us do this.
Being a SF type that I am I could do it all by myself. But why have all of the fun myself. So how can I talk to? Would like a POC to see if we can make this happen.

AL
:munchin

f50lrrp
08-10-2010, 09:24
1. Yes, Cub Scout, Weblous (Arrow of Light), Boy Scout, Order of the Arrow, Scoutmaster
2. Yes, made Eagle just before 18 and pinned it on during delayed entry.
3. Give me lots of field craft and self confidence. Phase 1 just honed those skills I already had and only thing new as patrolling.
4. Not nessesary as I already planned a life in the military (USAF brat) however when hiking in Philmont when I was 17 the experience of being out alone with 12 guys humping a ruck in middle of nowhere threwout the thought of going into the Marine Corps as a tanker. Ended up enlisting on a SF contract less then a year later.
5. Baden Powell started the Boy Scouts as a stepping stone to the military. Some of my fondest memories was as a 24 yr old Scoutmaster in Bad Tolz, Germany taking the scouts through the Alps and Italy (course fathers were all SF too)

CD

I was a scoutmaster when I was at TASCOM, in Worms, Germany in 1970. My wife and I took the troop to Garmich by train on a ski weekend so that we coulf avail the services od the Ski Patrol of the Armed Forces Recreation unit there. Most of the scouts were the sons of high ranking officers including the grand son of LTG Eifler.

When we changed trains in Munich, several of the scouts didn't wait until the train stopped but jumped off with their ruck sacks on. As I chewed them out, one boy , whose father was a colonel smarted off to me about how I was just a sergeant and his dad outranked me.

Before walking into town from the barracks provided to the troop by AFRC, I told the troop to get their jackets because it was going to be colder on the hike back. The same boy who had gave me crap at the train station mothed off about how he didn't want to get his jacket and I couldn't make him because I was only a sergeant.

I put my arm around his shoulders and walked him around the corner. When we were out of sight of the troop, I told the boy that if he didn't mind me I was going to kick his ass. I explained to him that his father outranked me, but he didn't. I also told him that if he wanted to tell his dad when we got back to Worms that he could.

We walked back to the troop and the boy went into the barracks and got his jacket.

My wife asked me what I said to the boy and all I would tell her was that I used "CHILD PSYCHOLOGY".

When we got back to Worms, I was standing with General Eifler when the boy and his dad approached. The dad started to say something to me but changed his mind when he saw the general. Instead, he thanked me for straightining his son out.

Boomer-61
08-12-2010, 13:05
I was a cub scout then explorer scout. I got more out of scouting when I began to lead. I was in it for ten years and did everything from merit badge instruction to scoutmaster. I think scouting has a lot more to offer young men today than other opportunities like sports, school clubs and the like. Young men from broken homes have the opportunity to see men doing what men do, role models. I think the BSA promotes family and community unity and most of all not to live so much for yourself. Kids today are consumed with their selves and rarely consider others. I think scouting makes better citizens, makes them more socially aware and more respectful of authority. Scouting provides a multitude of skill sets through the merit badge system and leadership opportunities. Eagle Scouts are privilaged with scolarships, better job opportunities (mostly withing scouting) and rank privilage in most branches of the service, (one pay grade). My son is an Eagle Scout and has worked as an instructor at summer camp three years in a row. He will be headed to the USCG next year.
Thank you for this thread.

BearW
08-12-2010, 14:59
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
Cubs as well as boy scouts and ventures-until i was 15

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
Scouts Canada's highest award is the Chief Scout Award which i received at age 14, under the tutelage of my father, grandpa and the Scouters (Canadian equiv to Scout Master, or Scout leader)

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
Confidence outdoors, working with knots at a young age helped me when i became interested in climbing and boating. Swimming skills i learn with cubs/scouts were basis on which my skills now are built on.
A Deep seeded respect for the environment and the land, tools of fieldcraft and (perhaps most importantly) the understanding that being a little bit uncomfortable all the time is normal. :D

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
It guided me to the army, then drew me towards SoF because i wanted more responsibility, more time outdoors etc. The Big Army didn't do enough outdoorsy stuff for me so i thought i'd give SoF a try. Kind of childish i guess in the end but i'd rather be in the bush practicing hootch building and gutting fish than sweeping the foyer back at battalion...... Now as i re read that it doesn't sound that childish at all, it just sounds fun!

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.

Years ago i watched a cheesy spy movie with Robert Redford and Brad Pitt where they flashback to Brad Pitts days in Vietnam as a SOG Sniper or something of the like. All very 'hollywood' and very cheesy but one of the lines i did like was when someone asked Pitt's character where he learned to soldier-his response was "In the Boy Scouts, Sir".
Still makes me chuckle.

Bear

Razor
08-23-2010, 14:35
All very 'hollywood' and very cheesy but one of the lines i did like was when someone asked Pitt's character where he learned to soldier-his response was "In the Boy Scouts, Sir".
Still makes me chuckle.

I think the question was where he (Pitt's character) learned to shoot. As a Rifle Shooting merit badge instructor, I'll vouch for the respectable qualification standards required to earn it.

BearW
08-23-2010, 16:26
Razor,
I stand corrected sir! I'm as unfamiliar with the program as i am the film, i suppose. I don't think Scouts Canada had a rifle shooting badge. I think it would be a good idea though, to teaching young boys firearms safety and the principals of marksmanship at a young age. I think helps foster a life long respect for firearms and a certain depth of capability that i don't think you can get anywhere else, save perhaps the army.

hjcook
08-23-2010, 20:47
I was a Boy Scout--did not make it to Eagle, one of my few regrets. ended at Life Scout. However, my scouting helped in many ways when I entered the military. While many other recruits struggled with establishing a "pace count," I knew what that was and I was already proficient in land navigation. I also understood the do's and dont's of survival and did not ever struggle with wood-craft and field craft of any nature. In short, I was prepared for the field and never had to waste energy or brainpower picking up field craft. I could always concentrate on the pure military aspects of the training. All because I had a good scout-master.
Later, much later I became involved in Scouting as an adult and attained the rank of Wood-Badge--which was also a breeze after 33 yrs of SF time. A sort of reversal of skill sets.
There are no better laws to live by than the Boy Scout Laws.
Scout training helped immensely in my military training and later military training helped as much in training young scouts and scout leaders.

wet dog
08-24-2010, 02:27
Welcome to PS.com brother, thanks for the BSA story, they're always welcomed. Be sure to post an introduction as per site rules, take care.

WD

I was a Boy Scout--did not make it to Eagle, one of my few regrets. ended at Life Scout. However, my scouting helped in many ways when I entered the military. While many other recruits struggled with establishing a "pace count," I knew what that was and I was already proficient in land navigation. I also understood the do's and dont's of survival and did not ever struggle with wood-craft and field craft of any nature. In short, I was prepared for the field and never had to waste energy or brainpower picking up field craft. I could always concentrate on the pure military aspects of the training. All because I had a good scout-master.
Later, much later I became involved in Scouting as an adult and attained the rank of Wood-Badge--which was also a breeze after 33 yrs of SF time. A sort of reversal of skill sets.
There are no better laws to live by than the Boy Scout Laws.
Scout training helped immensely in my military training and later military training helped as much in training young scouts and scout leaders.

andwerise
02-02-2011, 00:16
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

:munchin:lifter:munchin

1. Yes. I can even claim the full ascension from Tiger Cubs (First Grade) through Eagle Scout. Add Order of the Arrow in there for good measure.
2. Yes. 3 days before my 18th birthday. Got distracted by the 'fumes...gas fumes, perfumes, etc...But got it done and I am damn proud of it.
3. Being in 2 smaller/newer troops and being the only one also active in varsity sports, I was thrust into many official/unofficial leadership roles. Also utilizing manpower in my Eagle Project prepared me for running a semi-varsity cycling team in College and managing a few bands also.Working under scoutmasters with no outdoor experience seems like an experience I will fall back on later in life as well. I will be sure to update this once I have some military experiences to comment on
4. Absolutely. Just wish I had come to my senses a long time ago.
5. Would really like to see the military more active in scouting. In my 12 years in scouting I never once spoke with a recruiter, and rarely saw them at local jamborees/scout world events. I understand that may just be my troop or district, but I can certainly say if I had been in contact with QP's or other soldiers while in scouts I may have made some very different decisions.

All this talk about Scouts reminds me of a great movie line from "Red Dawn", when the Cuban Colonel lists off the qualifications of the mayor's son, one of the Wolverine Guerillas fighting in the mountains: "member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts". Always makes me grin

Dozer523
02-02-2011, 10:09
. . . when hiking in Philmont when I was 17 the experience of being out alone with 12 guys humping a ruck
:cool:
in middle of nowhere
:cool:
threwout the thought of going into the Marine Corps as a tanker
:eek:
Ended up enlisting on a SF contract less then a year later.CD
:D Kids say the damnedest things I'm glad someone slapped you.

Sarski
02-02-2011, 10:41
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc


1. Started with Indian Guides (part of YMCA) then went into Cub Scouts and then Webelos.
2. Never went Eagle, know a couple who have, they are high achievers, goal driven, and success oriented. My nephew just recieved his Order of the Arrow over the summer. Webelos is as far as I went.
3. Instilled sense of community, sense of pride, and responsibility to self and others.
4. Not applicable, though it did have a bearing on military life in general.
5. About three years ago I was able to look at a couple of Scouting books from 1954 and compared them with my books which I still have. I was amazed at the shift in knowledge away from what Scouts of that era practiced. If you are able to pick up any of those books from 1954 (online, garage sales...) and share them with your packs/troops, I think you'll find it enjoyable and benificial.

Also, just as a side note...my Dad occaisonally likes to bring up, that "nine out of ten astronauts that set foot on the moon were Eagle Scouts."

Pete
02-02-2011, 10:47
OK - who nevet got a Totin' Chip Card.

At least I still have a sharp ax and all my toes.

Santo Tomas
02-02-2011, 10:52
OK - who nevet got a Totin' Chip Card.

At least I still have a sharp ax and all my toes.

I have one. Smart instruction for a young scout.

Sten
02-02-2011, 10:57
OK - who nevet got a Totin' Chip Card.

At least I still have a sharp ax and all my toes.

Who has one with all four corners?

zauber1
02-02-2011, 11:39
Still have mine - all four corners are there. Circa 1965.

Still have my original (unburned) draft board card.

tim180a
02-02-2011, 11:39
1. Yes.
2. No, I made it to Life Scout. I also was involved with the Order of the Arrow. One regret I have is that I didn't pursue Eagle Scout. I quit Scouting to join a band...
3. I spent a lot of time in Scouting. I started as a Cub Scout and progressed from there. I went to camp twice a year. Not only did we participate in summer camps, but we did week long winter camps called "Klondike Derby".
4. I don't think Scouting had anything to do with my decision to go SF. It did help with getting through the "Q" Course and several Mountain Schools.
5. Scouting can be nothing but positive for any military career. My son is now 3 and I hope to steer him in the direction of Scouting. I would of course do all I could to be a mentor to the Troop.

No, I don't still have my Totin' Chip Card...lol

andwerise
02-02-2011, 13:32
Who has one with all four corners?

My first one from my first troop was missing one or two. I "lost it" when I joined my new troop and laminated that sucker. All 4 corners and always got my safety circle :D

Dozer523
02-02-2011, 17:13
OK - who nevet got a Totin' Chip Card.

At least I still have a sharp ax and all my toes. I had two of them. One lost all four corners, the next one was ripped to little tiny pieces. It was in a "let-this-be-a-lesson-to-all-of-you moment".
I loved to play mummbley-peg. (And the other boy needed 4 stiches.)

PSM
02-02-2011, 17:34
I loved to play mummbley-peg. (And the other boy needed 4 stiches.)

I did too, with my Cub Scout knife. In the school yard! Imagine doing that today. :eek: We didn't have school nurses, either. :rolleyes: How'd we ever survive?

Pat

wet dog
02-03-2011, 03:44
Just found a re-visited copy of the original 1911 Boy Scout Manual at Borders Books.

I bought several copies.

Badger52
02-09-2011, 08:27
Awhile back there was an online books project sponsored by several universities who'd digitally archived alot of the older books & first-person accounts of battles, etc. During an all-too-brief free-for-all download period I happened to snag a copy of Gilbert Signal Engineering for Boys. There were several of these published at the time and, in the vein of "twas a different country then", they seem to reflect knowledge & skills thought to be important to boys at the time such as fieldcraft, principles involving engineering, electricity, knot tying, et al. It is entertaining to see the US military services at the time doing hands-on mentoring of Boy Scouts.

The attached thumbnails snagged from the book will give an idea as to the scope of the book.

If anyone would like a copy, just PM with your email address and I'd be happy to send it along. It's about a 20MB .pdf payload.

(And yes, Virginia, when you say you know Morse Code and someone asks you:
"International or American?" it's a valid question.)
;)

greenberetTFS
02-09-2011, 11:41
Boy Scouts celebrate their origin 2-7-1910..........:D:D:D

Big Teddy :munchin

JFoley
02-14-2011, 07:18
1. I was in Boy Scouts for a while, learned a lot there.

2. I did Make Eagle, 08April200

3. The most obvious way that scout traing helped me in the military (Navy) was working with rope, and tying knots. I did a lot of rope work for people who didn't know how. In civilian life, the ability to deal with people I don't care for.

4. I am not SF. I'm contemplating heading in that direction, that's why I'm hanging around on this forum.

5. It seems like scouting skills could only be a good thing for a military member.

I never lost my Toten' Chit did lose a corner though. Knocked my attitude down a notch... for a while. I thought I was high and mighty as the Senior Patrol Leader.

koz
02-14-2011, 09:14
JFoley -
Thanks for filling out you profile as instructed, but you need to post an intro in the Introductions thread before posting again.

Thanks for your service and welcome to PS.com

Dave Sterling
02-14-2011, 09:34
1. Yes. From 1968 when I joined the Cub Scouts until I left for the army in 1977.
2. Eagle and Order of the Arrow (Brotherhood).
3. Field craft skills are an obvious answer but Scouting also gave me a moral code to live by. I may not have always followed it but at least I knew when I was straying from the path.
4. Scout training (amongst other things) guided me in my decision to go into the Army.
5. As important as the lessons in field craft and the other skills the BSA teaches it also provides young men with a much needed sense of structure and organization that serves a young soldier well as he becomes acquainted with the ways of the service.

greenberetTFS
02-14-2011, 15:36
In England they just completed their "hostage rescue training" by saving their future Queen!..............;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Chris O`Crooh
02-22-2011, 02:23
Best wishes on the World Thinking Day, brothers scouts!

BrokenSwitch
03-10-2011, 11:35
1. Yes, came up from Tiger Cubs in 1996 and stuck with it ever since.

2. Eagle, 2 palms.

3.
In my extremely limited military experience, it kept me squared away during LANDNAV, basic first aid (not to be confused with CLS), all things involving rope, how to properly pack a ruck, and how to stay comfortable and motivated at FTX. Possibly the best and worst thing Scouting did for me is that I can sleep almost anywhere (haven't tried sleeping in formation yet...).

In civilian life?
How to dress for the weather, stay dry in the rain (Feet! Never forget your feet!), and improvisation. The skits and camp songs were definitely confidence boosters when I find myself addressing a group. Also: fire!

4. Still a civilian...

5. I have worked at Broad Creek for the 5 of the last 6 summers as an instructor at Camp Saffran's Conservation/Ecology Lodge. This summer, I have been hired as the Shooting Sports director.

Shadow1911
05-10-2011, 15:28
Yes I was in Scouts
Eagle, Order of the Arrow Vigil. Never knew there were so many Eagles in SF
Taught direction and discipline. How to be comfortable in stead of just surviving.
Great intro to leadership.

Shark Bait
06-20-2011, 09:58
I did the whole Cub Scout deal, then Boy Scouts. Didn't quite make Eagle. Stopped at Life, then my attention was diverted to girls and other stuff. Order of the Arrow, Brotherhood. I really enjoyed that.

The whole experience gave me a good basic knowledge of outdoor skills and a foundation in Land Nav, all of which helped in SFQC.

45K40
06-20-2011, 14:19
1. Yes, 5 yrs, loved every minute of it.
2. 1st Class was highest rank.
3. Scout training taught me alot about fieldcraft and expediency. Our troop was Troop 49, Ft Monmouth, NJ. The scout hut was on post and we had many hand-me-downs donated/tranfered from the Army to help us (bivouac stuff, lots of Lister bags, tent pegs/poles). I don't think I ever missed a campout and my ruck was always chock-full of "just in case" stuff.
4. I was in the Scouts during Vietnam campaign era. All of our Scoutmasters and leadership were active Army or retired, all of them with combat experience. We hung on eagerly listening to their stories of "really" being in the field. Although I went Ordnance, a camporee at West Point really sealed my fate in joining up.
5. The Scouts and the Army have much in common when you look at the customs and courtesies, be prepared attitude, uniform, rank structure, and comraderie. Who could forget Snipe Hunts, Capture the Flag, Scout Juice (Coleman fuel to start your fire) Scrounge Missions, pioneering, and burning your grub over an open fire. Our squad usually acted tactical and we participated on many "black ops" and recon missions against other Troops. I would say that the Scouts probably account for 1/8-1/5 the enlistments in the military. I give regularly to the local county BSA, and you can too, thru CFC. BSA donations are also tax-exempt.

TimberWolf82
08-11-2011, 15:21
1. Yes, from Tiger Cubs all the way through to Eagle. Long standing family tradition to be in the Boy Scouts, my grandfather (a navy man) in 1965 petitioned congress & the BSA to create the first ever boy scout troop for mentally handicapped children as my uncle was born with cerebral palsy.
2. Eagle Scout with Silver Palms, Order of Arrow, Duty To God Award, Medal of Merit Award & Mile Swim Award.
3. Because of my training in the Boy Scouts and my time served as an eagle scout working as a high adventure guide at Tinnerman Canoe Base I was able to go out and conquer the civilian world. Started my own Architectural company at 24 and ran it successfully for 5 years before selling it to join the Army.
4. Yes & No, initially my reasons for going SF where many and varied. After deciding in my own mind that this was the path for me I knew that my scouting experience could best be re-utilized in the world of SF.
5. I hate being biased towards people, but I would hire a prior scout over a non-scout any day of the week especially if said man was an Eagle Scout. Just like the title of SF comes with an expected set of criteria so does the title of Eagle Scout. I still to this day consider it my greatest accomplishment in life.

Badger52
10-28-2011, 06:59
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

:munchin:lifter:munchinI trust that many here will be able to appreciate the various take-aways of what follows. In the midst of all the "gimme" mentality and the pandering to it that fills our events these days I hope this can provide a brief contrast.

While filling in for someone as NCS on an HF net yesterday I got to make the acquaintance of a gentlemen who, initially providing some technical insight, ended up providing an inspiring tale that transcends the usual ham radio talk.

I'm not much of a "rag-chewer" on the radio but I stayed with this man after closing the net because he'd found a tuning solution for an old "boat-anchor" of an amp he resurrected from a research lab at the nearby university, destined for the scrap heap. He'd asked for a critical signal report, which I gave (after picking my headset off the floor). He stayed with me and gave some good relay help later to some weak mobile stations. 'Bout half of what he said was over my head but because I'm studying for the Extra exam I listened hard & kept mouth shut.

His tale started when, just a few hours from graduating HS in 1944 at the age of 17, he ran down to join the US Navy. ("Everybody was joining up, it's just what we did.")

"Well, I already had 'the code' from the Boy Scouts, so they gave me a test and sent me to radio school. I learned to do about 18 words a minute at first, and then found myself in a little 3x6-ft space on a submarine."

"Pretty soon I was copying [what they termed] 'Fox' traffic at 27 wpm; it was just 5-letter groups, and I'd type it up and give it to the communications officer because back then only officers had the maps and code books." I asked him if he'd copied on a mill and he said no, space was too precious on a sub and they just used the typical portable little typewriter of the era.

After the war he went to the university and studied electronics, and spent a long and profitable career in the broadcast engineering fields, retiring with his wife of many decades to enjoy the fruits of his labors and "a little cabin up north."

Too soon, he mentioned that "ahh, they're calling me to come upstairs now so I'd better sign off and grab some chow.

"But ya know, this country has been so good to me. I got to be scared out of my wits, see some really strange places, ya know after the war Uncle Sam even sent me to college? - can you imagine - a kid from Iowa?"

He gave a hearty laugh, 84 years young...

"...and all because I already 'had the code' from the Boy Scouts."

:)

albeham
10-28-2011, 07:51
Badger52

That is what happen to me..but I did the SF thing..Subs and a tube of shit floating in the food chain....

I meet a lot in the HF band that are, were scouts.


My dad was in the nukes subs....glad I did not do that.


AL


QSL UR QSO

Badger52
10-28-2011, 07:59
I meet a lot in the HF band that are, were scouts.
Ditto, sir. Am blessed to have a couple of grand kids more interested in learning practical lessons they can carry through life than doing thumb-reps on their crackberries.

lonetlan
11-02-2011, 02:13
Being in Boy Scouts made me a great leader, I feel as though I carry myself at a higher standard than some because the Scouts before me set good examples to live by. In stressful situations I'm able to keep a cool head and work my way through the problem. If I'm with people on a camping trip, I'm the one people count on... Pretty much it makes a regular Joe into a respectable regular Joe.

With that being written, I was the last "old generation" scout in my troop; I watched a 100% Boy run troop (we planned, packed, organized everything) be invaded and converted into a wussy parent run troop(parents way or no way). As I was going for my Eagle, the Leader's son O.D.'d; he than didn't hold his end of the deal so I had to do his work to try and get my Eagle. Long story short sadly, no one could turn out to make me an official Eagle Scout; all the way to the end(age cut off). Even when I wrote to request an extension so that I can have the last ceremony.

I'll take what I learned with me for the rest of my life... But I will always regret never becoming an Eagle Scout.

Edit: Relating to BSA/military...
You may have gotten a bad PL in BSA who you won't follow on a hiking trip, hes that bad PL you don't want to follow into battle.

Warchief
11-02-2011, 13:19
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts? Yes

2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)?
Yes with double Gold Palms, God and Country award, Order of the Arrow, Philmont, 50-miler, Mile Swim, Life Guard and Gold Quill Awards

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
I learned leadership, public speaking skills, fieldcraft, first aid, confidence and discipline during my time as a scout.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
Not really, I wanted to be either a Paratrooper, Ranger or Special Forces at almost the instant I learned about their existance. I was blessed in that I was able to achieve the honor and privilege of earning all three of these titles during my active service. Many of the things and skills I learned as a scout were applicable during SF training and service. The training and knowledge I received during my 6 years as a Boy Scout gave me a solid basis upon which to build a career in Special Forces.

tunanut
11-28-2011, 18:46
1. Yes

2. Life, regretted not making eagle, but divorcing parents interviened. Order of the Arrow, mile swimmer

3. Yes, land nav, map reading, but most of all our range was run by marines that did a great job of teaching basic marksmenship. No problem qualifying expert in the army.

4. If we're talking about regrets, I have one. Went airborne, got sent to a leg unit in europe. Went to the CO of the 10th group in Bad Tolz one weekend and begged him to take me in. He sent me back to my unit with a letter of acceptance in hand. My leg CO told me I'm too valuable to the unit to let go. To this day I regret not kicking his ass. I guess the scouts instilled too much respect.

adal
11-28-2011, 19:47
Yes
Eagle with palms
I don't think Scouting pushed me towards SF but it was a natural path for me.
It taught me leadership, trust in myself, skill knowledge.
I am still active in scouting. Took a troop out for the second year in a row and taught winter survival. I am in the mountains at 7500' and they are from Phoenix where it rarely gets cold. This year I took my 12 year old daughter with us. It was 35 degrees and rained all night long. Stellar!!!!!! The boys shelters worked, fire skills were tested, moral was high and lots was learned.
I think everything other than tactics I learned in scouts. All the military did was reenforce or sharpen a skill I learned in scouts. (Rifle and survival skills were good, but team time with an M-4 and SERE sure made those better! :)

ZonieDiver
11-28-2011, 20:31
Yes
Eagle with palms
I don't think Scouting pushed me towards SF but it was a natural path for me.
It taught me leadership, trust in myself, skill knowledge.
I am still active in scouting. Took a troop out for the second year in a row and taught winter survival. I am in the mountains at 7500' and they are from Phoenix where it rarely gets cold. This year I took my 12 year old daughter with us. It was 35 degrees and rained all night long. Stellar!!!!!! The boys shelters worked, fire skills were tested, moral was high and lots was learned.
I think everything other than tactics I learned in scouts. All the military did was reenforce or sharpen a skill I learned in scouts. (Rifle and survival skills were good, but team time with an M-4 and SERE sure made those better! :)

I was cold this morning when I got up! :D

adal
11-28-2011, 21:24
I was cold this morning when I got up! :D

What 75? :) It was in the 20's here.

Brutus Fidus
12-24-2011, 15:18
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts
2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)
3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.
4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.
5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc


I had to post on this one. BSA was a HUGE part of my life as a kid.

1. Yes. Started as a Cub Scout in grade school, on through Weblos, then into BS though my church.

2. Life Scout - 2 merit badges ("personal finance" and "family life") and a service project away from Eagle when I turned 18. Still regret not finishing. Duty to God. Mile swim. 100 Mile.

3. I ship in March, I'm certain BSA experiences will be a big help. As a civilian it was the foundation for my love of the outdoors. Our church BS troop was BIG on "High Adventure" scouting. From age 12-18, our troop had 3 different troop masters: My father - Former Navy. Very competent mountaineer and technical climber. He rucked us through the Rockies, Ozarks and Tetons. Bennet - Former Army medic, served in Korea. Tough as nails. He used to sneak up behind us with a wire garrote while we were sitting around the fire during camping trips. He taught us to track and shoot. Made us wear surplus army BDUs to all camp-outs; except for Philmont, were he made us wear our "Class A's" the entire trip. We hated him for that, but we looked sharp. We made quite a name for ourselves that year when we carried out our injured "guide". Finally, Bishop Adams - Game Warden for Fish and Wildlife / small town Sheriff. He taught us to shoot and track even better. We canoed more than 100 miles through the Canadian Boundary Waters with him. We also dominated everyone at the Klondike Derby (5k of team events while pulling a dogsled) every year.

4. It may sound silly and naive, but one of the main reasons I want to be SF is to get back that feeling I had as a Scout. Wanting to LEARN AND DO EVERYTHING. Being part of a group that was striving to be the best. Being proud of what I was doing and what I had accomplished (show me another 12 year old who can open a can of beans in the dark with a p38).;)

f50lrrp
12-25-2011, 17:46
When I was 10 years old my Family moved from Lawrence, Kansas to Mannheim, Germany. My Dad was the XO of the 1st Battle Group, 18th Infantry, 8th ID. The next year we moved to Bad Kreuznach and lived in Government Housing. My Brother Bob and I used to go camping by ourselves on the Couberg. I joined a local BSA Troop and that summer the troop attended Camp Freedom. The 1st morning in Camp, I went to the pool to take my Swimming Merit Badge class. There was ice on the surface. I went in anyway.

The next three summers, I went to Camp Freedom and I got inducted into the Order of The Arrow (Black Eagle Lodge). I ended up with 24 merit badges and stood for the Board of Review for Eagle Scout before my Dad was reassigned to California. I didn’t go back into Scouting until I was an Adult.

When Chris, my son, was 10 years old he joined Troop 285 in Prunedale. His Scoutmaster asked me if I had ever been a Scout? I told him that I had been through a Board of Review for Eagle Scout. He told me that if I could get the documents together that showed that I passed the BOR, He would see that I received my Eagle Scout Award. I went home and dug through a lot of papers that my Mom saved and found the BOR papers. The next Court of Honor that Troop 285 held, I was awarded my Eagle Scout Medal!
:lifter

SF Mike

SF_BHT
12-25-2011, 22:35
When I was 10 years old my Family moved from Lawrence, Kansas to Mannheim, Germany. My Dad was the XO of the 1st Battle Group, 18th Infantry, 8th ID. The next year we moved to Bad Kreuznach and lived in Government Housing. My Brother Bob and I used to go camping by ourselves on the Couberg. I joined a local BSA Troop and that summer the troop attended Camp Freedom. The 1st morning in Camp, I went to the pool to take my Swimming Merit Badge class. There was ice on the surface. I went in anyway.

The next three summers, I went to Camp Freedom and I got inducted into the Order of The Arrow (Black Eagle Lodge). I ended up with 24 merit badges and stood for the Board of Review for Eagle Scout before my Dad was reassigned to California. I didn’t go back into Scouting until I was an Adult.

When Chris, my son, was 10 years old he joined Troop 285 in Prunedale. His Scoutmaster asked me if I had ever been a Scout? I told him that I had been through a Board of Review for Eagle Scout. He told me that if I could get the documents together that showed that I passed the BOR, He would see that I received my Eagle Scout Award. I went home and dug through a lot of papers that my Mom saved and found the BOR papers. The next Court of Honor that Troop 285 held, I was awarded my Eagle Scout Medal!
:lifter

SF Mike

Great Mike just shows you if you keep at it you can finally obtain your goals.

Dozer523
12-26-2011, 06:28
. The next Court of Honor that Troop 285 held, I was awarded my Eagle Scout Medal!
:lifter
SF Mike That's awesome! I remember Camp Freedom.
Fishing at the pond with the leeches -- we were convinced that if we went into the water we'd come out covered in them. Those bonfires at night down there too.

2018commo
07-22-2012, 18:20
We are taking two Crews to Philmont 01-14 August 2012, Itinerary 24; ‎801-01-02, Anasazi, Old Camp, Sealy Canyon, McCrystal Creek, Dan Beard, Ponil, Pueblano, Miranda, Blady, Miranda, Santa Claus, Bear Canyon. SPOT link to google maps to follow.

SF_BHT
07-22-2012, 20:05
We are taking two Crews to Philmont 01-14 August 2012, Itinerary 24; ‎801-01-02, Anasazi, Old Camp, Sealy Canyon, McCrystal Creek, Dan Beard, Ponil, Pueblano, Miranda, Blady, Miranda, Santa Claus, Bear Canyon. SPOT link to google maps to follow.

Good Luck. Philmont will be a trip they remember Forever.......... That camp is outstanding !!!!!

Flagg
07-31-2012, 19:06
1. Were you ever in the Boy Scouts

Nope.....never had the opportunity...but spent a lot of time as a kid in the woods with my BB gun learning by trial and mostly error.

My two young fellas have started NZ Scouts and have already earned their first 3 badges


2. Did you obtain Eagle or what was your highest rank. (I am sure that there are several other Eagles on the board)

N/A for me

My two young fellas have been in for a couple months now...and we have another Scout meeting tonight.

3. How did your Scout training help you in your military life or your Civilian life.

N/A for me

I hope it helps our fellas.

4. Did your Scout training guide you toward your decision to go SF.

N/A for me

But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't currently conducting "influencing operations" on my fellas to hopefully shape them towards serving their country....preferably in the Army...and hopefully a step or three beyond their old man if that's the path they choose.

5.... Any other comments about Scouts and the Military.
etc etc etc

I guess what has motivated my wife and I to encourage our children to become involved with NZ Scouts is reading about how Scouting is a frequent common denominator for business leaders, astronauts, SF, high achievers, etc.

So we figured, "let's do that too".

My next comments may not be totally aligned with this thread but I was unable to find any others(hopefully my search skills were up to scratch) on the forum.

We've(meaning "I" with my wife's full support) been trying to take baby steps in turning up the heat on our fellas in hopes of forging them in the appropriate direction in terms of life skills, attitude, and hopefully mindset

I am NOT SF, but I have successfully completed an "SF-like" assessment course that would appear to share some of the same goals and objectives of courses like Ranger School and SFAS...as best I can tell from open source.

I've also been invited back a couple times and am still involved on the instructing side of the house(only as a junior instructor working under some quite experienced SF folks) for the same assessment course.

What has intrigued me the most is the mental/psychological side(having seen it from both sides now) of it......but I'm only at the stage where my eyes have truly been opened, but I'm not a full time SME practitioner...so I could be at the "a little knowledge can be very dangerous" stage.

We have been trying to instill in our children the "don't quit" attitude that can often be tested and experienced in activities such as sport.

We've also been pushing them harder as they grow with trying to develop more self-reliance and to learn how to deal with ambiguity with confidence.

But my fear is that I don't want to turn into "that Dad" like the stories about Todd Marinovich in the NFL.

I guess where I'm personally looking for guidance as a Dad in training to a couple young kids is how to better help them develop the appropriate mindset that seems to differentiate SF from Regular Force personnel and high achievers in civilian life from the less successful.

As stated, I couldn't find a thread on life experiences when young that positively shaped and influenced folks to achieve success in SF and elsewhere. I wonder if some specific life experiences or family upbringing/parental expectations would present "clusters of considerable success" much like Scouts?

PRB
07-31-2012, 20:01
I got thrown out of Boy Scouts for organizing a raid on another towns troop at the State Jamboree....didn't even have time to sew my patches on.
It taught me to train others to fight as a force multiplier and keep a layer of deniability in place.

2018commo
07-31-2012, 20:29
As promissed the link to the SPOT (think blue force tracker) that we will carry in Philmont. As a eighteen year old Private humping through the Q-course, Boy Scouts prepared me for sucess, now as a 51 year old former action guy, its fun and rewarding to give it back.
Feel free to follow us for the next two weeks as we turn Boys to Men.

BSA Troop 973 - Track Crew #2's Progress during our trek at Philmont

Greetings from Boy Scout Troop 973's Philmont Crew#2 802-I-02

All the final preparations are complete and we are scheduled to leave for Philmont tomorrow morning.

You are being invited to track our crews progress at Philmont as we trek through the the rugged
wilderness in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains of the Rocky Mountains of northern New Mexico.

You can follow our crews progress, in near real time, through the use of our SPOT GPS communications
device. The link below is a private, password protected web-site, that will allow our crew to post our GPS location
and allow to send pre-configured one-way messages to our friends and family.

There are three (3) message types that you will see on the site.

(1) Check-in/Ok! - Trek #24 proceeding as planned, All is Okay! From BSA Troop 973 Philmont Crew 802-I-02
This message will be periodically posted by our crew and indicates that everyone is okay and our trek is proceeding as planned.

(2) Track Progress
This feature allows us to automatically post our GPS coordinates (every 10 minutes) as we hike through the rugged
wilderness. It allows you to to follow along a nice breadcrumb style trail (via a google map) of the route on Trek #24.

(3) Custom - All ok - Reached camp site, Setting up camp for the day! From BSA Troop 973 Philmont Crew 802-I-02
This message will be posted after our crew has selected the camp site for the day.

Please feel free to share the link and password with friends and family.

Finally, as all of us our aware, any technology has issues, so please do not be alarmed if the messages are not displayed.
No news is good news!

There could me many issues that cause this device to malfunction. battery issues, GPS errors, water issues, etc


The password for the web-site below is "Tr@@p973" (without the double quotes, the password is case sensitive)

http://tinyurl.com/Troop973Crew2

or

https://share.findmespot.com

ZonieDiver
07-31-2012, 21:11
<Snip>

I am NOT SF, but I have successfully completed an "SF-like" assessment course that would appear to share some of the same goals and objectives of courses like Ranger School and SFAS...as best I can tell from open source.

I've also been invited back a couple times and am still involved on the instructing side of the house(only as a junior instructor working under some quite experienced SF folks) for the same assessment course.

<Snip>

Tell us more, please. Enquiring minds want to know...

Flagg
07-31-2012, 23:49
Tell us more, please. Enquiring minds want to know...

It's NOT our NZSAS Selection Course.

It's called the Aumangea Assessment Course, formerly called the Ranger Course.

It was run 3 times as a pilot course in the last 3 calender years. I was on one of them, and I was requested back to help with one of them. It's been picked up as an official course and will be running again shortly and I've been asked to help out on it again with some input on phase activity planning and management.

The course concept received top cover from a senior officer who served in the disbanded NZ Ranger Company.

The course was designed and is managed by a bunch of great fellas with a pretty deep level of experience in NZ SF.

I'm not trying to make it sound more than it is, just trying to put it into words that might roughly translate to the US and a mostly US audience on this forum. I'm NOT trying to compare it favourably to Ranger School or SFAS. If it came across that way, I apologize. I'm just trying to provide some background of my limited direct experience, the perspective I'm coming from, and what I'm hoping to do with my young boys.

From the individual activities I have read about, watched on video, or discussed with graduates of Ranger School and SFAS, it would appear there are a good number of common denominators with many of the activities on this course, as best I can tell, and again coming from my limited experience.

As I previously stated, I learned first hand from both sides of the fence a little bit about the definition of mental toughness and the psychology behind such activities and am keen to learn more to help both sets of "boys".

I'm in this thread to see what I can do for my own two boys to help them develop into good young men who may wish to pursue excellence a couple steps past their dad.

I'm also on this forum to try and learn as much as I can to try to bring something to the table in terms of increasing the size of the phase activity "menu" and make a tangible contribution to the course I have gained so much from and hopefully make it better....and provide value for my other "boys".

So on a couple of levels I'm here to learn.

In long discussions with some of our SF guys including our course manager, our course has been described as offering a "slice" or "taste" of what the foundation of SF is all about, starting with performing the basics of soldiering to the highest possible standard.

It's not a well known course, but I hope to play a part in making it a well respected course moving forward.

I'm happy to share more, but I don't want to upset anyone by taking it so off topic.

Feel free to PM.

ZonieDiver
08-01-2012, 07:04
It's NOT our NZSAS Selection Course.
<Snip>


Thanks!

Flagg
08-01-2012, 07:23
One question I have about US Scouts is:

Was there/is there any patches/badges issued for little more than just showing up?

We've had that happen once so far in NZ Scouts and our comfort level with it would best be described as "low". This is for 5-7 year olds.

Our kids footy team issues a "player of the week" trophy unfortunately based on alphabetical order which we do not wish our children to participate in, preferring awards to be earned rather than issued.

We don't want to be "those parents" but we also don't want our kids to think victory/success is "turn based".

This parenting stuff can get awkward at times.

BrokenSwitch
08-01-2012, 09:22
Was there/is there any patches/badges issued for little more than just showing up?

Just the unit insignia, because otherwise the uniform is just a fancy button-down shirt with matching pants... and socks...

Some merit badges only take an hour or two of effort to earn, but nothing should be "given." As a summer camp merit badge counselor, I've seen kids who show up for attendance, and then goof off the rest of the time. The nice thing about attendance is that I can then go chat with their scoutmasters. :D I've found that sometimes, kids are actually pressured to earn certain merit badges, and didn't want to be there in the first place.

I've also seen kids who did all their work at home, and just needed a counselor to sign off. As long as they had fulfilled all of the badges' requirements to standard, I signed them off. If they did not, they were given instructions for how to improve.

DR_BRETT
08-01-2012, 14:31
Yes -- Cub Scouts, then Boy Scouts, and made Star, then "retired" to work on personal projects, although I was encouraged to go for Eagle. I was made patrol leader, even though I did not ask. The Boy Scout Handbook was good, and I still own the heavy-duty interlocking knife, fork, and spoon !!

- DR_BRETT

Flagg
08-01-2012, 16:00
Just the unit insignia, because otherwise the uniform is just a fancy button-down shirt with matching pants... and socks...

Some merit badges only take an hour or two of effort to earn, but nothing should be "given." As a summer camp merit badge counselor, I've seen kids who show up for attendance, and then goof off the rest of the time. The nice thing about attendance is that I can then go chat with their scoutmasters. :D I've found that sometimes, kids are actually pressured to earn certain merit badges, and didn't want to be there in the first place.

I've also seen kids who did all their work at home, and just needed a counselor to sign off. As long as they had fulfilled all of the badges' requirements to standard, I signed them off. If they did not, they were given instructions for how to improve.

Cheers.

plato
08-01-2012, 16:07
*
Oopsed.

dennisw
08-01-2012, 18:56
Michael Malone: A Century of Eagle Scouts
The Eagles' service project is the single greatest youth-service initiative in history, and one that has touched every community in America in an important way.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303933704577533561616246168.html?m od=ITP_opinion_0

Great editorial in the WSJ today about the impact Eagle Scouts have had on America and the impact on the scouts themselves.

Quaker
08-08-2012, 07:55
I was in Civil Air Partol (CAP)--Air Force boy scouts, essentially. Not that I'm special forces but it helped me a lot. Like others have said, I grew up in that program. Joined when I was 12 and was active up until enlisting at 19. Our CAP squadron focused on wilderness search and rescue / survival. They taught me everything from rappelling, rope rescue, hiking, building shelters, fire craft, etc. IMO, CAP kind of sucks unless you are lucky enough to go to Hawk Mt. It is a search and rescue school where most of the above is taught by fellow members.

Even though I'm young, I've been treated like an equal pretty much since day one of arriving at my unit. Yeah, I'm not the best at sports or xbox since I devoted most of my time to CAP as a kid but that choice is paying dividends now.

Inflexible Six
08-08-2012, 08:30
I was in Boy Scouts and later Sea Explorers. Both experiences have served me well not only in the military but throughout my life.

I knew my knots and splices, rope bridging, shelter-making, traps, small boat handling and sailing, etc long before I signed up with Uncle Sam. But I have to say I learned a lot of field craft on my own, trial and error, just being in the woods a lot as a kid. I was hunting squirrels every afternoon instead of doing homework.

Dozer523
08-08-2012, 11:10
I was in Civil Air Partol (CAP)--Air Force boy scouts, essentially. Not that I'm special forces but it helped me a lot. . Since you weren't in Boy Scouts it didn't help you. Civil Air Patrol is not Air Force Boy Scouts. No you are not Special Forces Qualified, and Special Forces is capitalzed (so is Boy Scouts). You could start a thread Civil Air Patrol and how it has helped you in the military. Good Luck.
I was hunting squirrels every afternoon instead of doing homework. A cautionary tale

Razor
08-08-2012, 11:35
One question I have about US Scouts is:

Was there/is there any patches/badges issued for little more than just showing up?

Plenty. There are close to 130 merit badges, with some taking a day or less to complete if you do the minimum required (e.g., Fingerprinting, Art, Traffic Safety), and others taking at least 3 months (Personal Fitness, Personal Management, Family Life). Some merit badges have pretty strenuous standards; for example, Rifle Shooting requires the Scout to shoot 5 5-shot groups the size of a US quarter at 50 ft. Cycling merit badge includes a progressive riding requirement that culminates in a 50 mile bike ride, and a total of 150 miles of riding overall.

Besides merit badges, there are other awards, such as Mile Swim (pretty much what it sounds like), 50-Miler afoot/afloat, and the various Hornaday conservation awards that require a fair number of nature-related merit badges and planning and conducting from 1 - 3 large scope group conservation projects.

Inflexible Six
08-08-2012, 12:58
A cautionary tale

Yes sir, indeed...

Quaker
08-08-2012, 17:20
Since you weren't in Boy Scouts it didn't help you. Civil Air Patrol is not Air Force Boy Scouts. No you are not Special Forces Qualified, and Special Forces is capitalzed (so is Boy Scouts). You could start a thread Civil Air Patrol and how it has helped you in the military. Good Luck.
A cautionary tale

Actually I was in the Boy Scouts. I assumed no one would mind if I shared my experience with a similar organization--that was my first mistake. After all, I'm sure some of you have never heard of CAP. I think you meant capitalized.. You are correct, I am not Special Forces qualified which I stated in my post. Honestly, it seems like a waste of space to start a thread for BSA, CAP, the Sea Cadets, etc. Again, sorry for rocking the boat. I'm not accustom to such stringent rules in regard to posting. After all, we all deviate from the thread now and then. I will be more careful next time to follow the thread title to the letter (and double check my capitalization).

Flagg
08-08-2012, 18:15
Plenty. There are close to 130 merit badges, with some taking a day or less to complete if you do the minimum required (e.g., Fingerprinting, Art, Traffic Safety), and others taking at least 3 months (Personal Fitness, Personal Management, Family Life). Some merit badges have pretty strenuous standards; for example, Rifle Shooting requires the Scout to shoot 5 5-shot groups the size of a US quarter at 50 ft. Cycling merit badge includes a progressive riding requirement that culminates in a 50 mile bike ride, and a total of 150 miles of riding overall.

Besides merit badges, there are other awards, such as Mile Swim (pretty much what it sounds like), 50-Miler afoot/afloat, and the various Hornaday conservation awards that require a fair number of nature-related merit badges and planning and conducting from 1 - 3 large scope group conservation projects.

Cheers!

It's valuable for us to get a sense of how the program works in the US compared to our kids in NZ Scouts.

I don't have a problem with a few easy badges or ones for just showing up.....but we're already trying to get our two in the proper mindset that nothing worth having is easy. We've already asked the question of which badge they have do they like the best, fortunately the answer has been the one they had to actually work hard for.

Razor
08-08-2012, 22:53
Be careful Quaker--continued use of the thinly veiled passive-aggressive response can drastically shorten your stay here.

Actually I was in the Boy Scouts. I assumed no one would mind if I shared my experience with a similar organization--that was my first mistake. After all, I'm sure some of you have never heard of CAP. I think you meant capitalized.. You are correct, I am not Special Forces qualified which I stated in my post. Honestly, it seems like a waste of space to start a thread for BSA, CAP, the Sea Cadets, etc. Again, sorry for rocking the boat. I'm not accustom to such stringent rules in regard to posting. After all, we all deviate from the thread now and then. I will be more careful next time to follow the thread title to the letter (and double check my capitalization).

Dozer523
08-09-2012, 12:31
Be careful Quaker--continued use of the thinly veiled passive-aggressive response can drastically shorten your stay here. I like him. I might, even, adopt him.

Razor
08-09-2012, 13:12
I like him. I might, even, adopt him.

...and hug him and pet him and squeeze him and call him George?

Dozer523
08-09-2012, 15:17
...and hug him and pet him and squeeze him and call him George?It's happened before. But this time I'll be careful.

tom kelly
08-09-2012, 18:43
I became an Eagle Scout in August 1954, 10 years later I was a medic on ODA-333 in Camp Plei Mrong II CTZ Pleiku Province, Vietnam. Scouting is a brotherhood that can teach an individual a lot of skills. Scouting is more than earning merit badges; Just like Special Forces is more than a Tab and a Green Beret.
Regard's, TK

2018commo
09-10-2014, 19:48
The next generation, my son and Eagle Scout candidate at Philmont last month.

Chris O`Crooh
02-22-2016, 05:16
Happy World Thinking Day, brothers scouts!

UwharrieGuy47
09-03-2016, 01:10
1) Yes, and I took the Scouting experience as far as I could go with it

2) Yes, I made Eagle Scout. Eagle class of 1987. Ronald Reagan was still President

3) I was not in the military, but Scouting did directly help my civilian life in multiple ways. The outdoor expertise I perfected in Scouting influenced my major in the University, Geography. Additionally, the swimming skills I learned in Scouting directed me to become a lifeguard after high school and to become an aquatics professional for many years, part time and full time on and off. The leadership skills I learned I still use to this day. And being an Eagle Scout got me several jobs over my life, I observed having "Eagle Scout" on my resume or job application seemed to be the deal maker in several jobs.

4) N.A. however at Philmont Scout Ranch I met quite a few teenage Scouts who were planning on enlisting into the military specifically to go Special Forces, SEALs, Rangers, Marine Corps, etc. Their motivation seemed to mix directly with the rugged outdoor lifestyles they had purposely developed for themselves, at that time.

5) Yes definitely, I have comments and this is the main reason I registered for this board, to comment in this particular string. As an Eagle Scout, NESA member (National Eagle Scout Association) and Philmont Staff Association member, I have some things to mention about Scouting. First, in my time as a Scout and later on as an Assistant Scoutmaster, I observed a wide variation in quality of Scout Troops and quality of local Scout council programs. Because I was so involved in BSA "High Adventure" programs, I got to see troops from all over the country and councils from all over the country.

Just like I would imagine there are some low quality outfits in the military with poor leadership, there are also dud troops with unmotivated boys and poor to non existent adult Scout leadership. Then there are troops with highly motivated boys and good, solid adult leadership. There are troops that go camping year round, "even in the winter when its cold." And there are troops that almost never go camping, believe it or not. And there are troops that mainly only go camping when the weather is mild (Fall and Spring and maybe summer camp).

I always tell potential Scouts and their parents to visit several Scout troops, go by their gut intuition and choose the troop that seems to have good adult leadership and motivated Scouts. Choose a troop that has a strong outdoor program and one that consistently goes camping in the winter, as being able to take care of yourself in cold weather is IMO, the outdoor skill that separates the real outdoors man from the slackers. Also, choose a troop where they have an active camping program, also choose a troop where the boys seem to be making rank.

Finally, my last BSA comment is directed to the guy who wrote the stuff he experienced as a young boy in a low quality troop decades back. Please realize your experience was NOT what Scouting is about. There is no official...or unofficial..."hazing" program within the Boy Scouts of America. There might be some low quality, redneck type troops who have taken it upon themselves to believe they should institute some sort of private hazing program to initiate new members, but trust me, thats not the norm even in the lower quality troops.

If you had been brought into a halfway decent Troop, you would not have experienced such hazing nonsense as you did and dropped out of Scouting. Nor have the opinion of Scouting you have today.


I am reluctant to even mention this here – it is unflattering to me, and a story that goes against what we all respect in each other – namely, guys who are expected to be hard as nails and able to take anything handed out and ask for more. That may be the case – for a young soldier, but should it apply to an 11 year old tenderfoot?

I tried scouting for about 3 months - one of the darker memories I had as a kid growing up. I subscribed to Boys Life and read about the Scouts for a couple of years prior to turning 11 when I could actually join. I will never forget the day after I did turn 11, I went up to the local Episcopal Church off of Elizabeth Ave in Fort Worth - officially joined the troop. Having read about Scouts for years, having watched all he Spin & Marty movies from Disney it was one of the happiest days of my young life.

That next day, I had a list of things I needed to buy. My uniform, a scout guide book, a scout knife, etc. My parents took me to Leonard Brothers Store in Fort Worth to get all the gear and - the next week I showed up in all my regalia. That was probably the last good day I had as a scout.

I did not know about the Initiation rites that were in vogue back then - becoming a slave for all the other guys, becoming a patsy for every joke, getting slammed to the ground repeatedly in some game we were playing in which I seemed to be the object of the game - I recognized what was going on, but wanted to be a Scout so much I just went along with it - until the Camperee two months later - a total disaster, also my last week as a scout.
Everything I had was stolen from me - my tent was torn down several times, finally it was thrown into the creek near by - without a tent, me and this other newbie had to sleep in the open - it was a cloudless night so we didn't have to worry about rain, until the eggs started flying. During the night, about every five minutes, an egg would get lobbed into our sleeping area - eventually I woke up the Scout Master and complained - he laughed and told me to just hang in there, the other guys were just having fun. Getting no help from him, the other guy and I climbed up in a tree and spent the night there - staying awake, no one saw us up there, but we saw them come looking for us - we stayed quiet, I do remember wishing I had a few bricks with me.
When I finally got home the next day, I had no hat, no tent, no knife, no scout book, just an egg stained sleeping bag and back pack. I never went back. I was young, just a few months past 11 years old.

Perhaps if my dad had been a Scout, he could have prepared me better, or taken a greater interest, or if the Scout Master had lived up to the image as portrayed in Boy’s Life – it would have been different, but as it was, I was just too green and felt no encouragement from anyone to continue. Also, I never learned whether what went on with me was normal or an abortion.

The frustration of that experience stayed with me for years - later on when I went into the Army - I kept my guard up, but that is when I noticed the difference - in Basic - we got abused, but we all did, together, not just me – it wasn’t the same. It was better – it was real. By the time I went into SF that scouting experiacne was basically forgotten - a non factor, but all the same, I made sure that nothing, no person, no amount of abuse, nor any humiliating act was going to keep me away from my goal – don’t know if that is actually a correlation or not – but that Camperee at age 11 was the last time I ever let anyone get the better of me – I don’t credit scouting for that, but I do credit my personal scouting experience as having value in preparing me, maturing me and giving me some insight into myself.