View Full Version : Pirates Seize Ship With U.S. Crew Off Coast of Somalia
Boys have just grabbed hold of the ol' tiger's tail - now we'll see if they get to see the teeth. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Pirates Seize Ship With U.S. Crew Off Coast of Somalia
Sharon Otterman, NYT, 8 Apr 2009
Pirates commandeered a United States-flagged container ship with 20 American crew members off the coast of Somalia on Wednesday, the first time an American-crewed ship was seized by pirates in the area.
The container ship, the Maersk Alabama, was carrying thousands of tons of relief aid to the Kenyan port of Mombasa, the company that owns the ship said.
The ship was taken by pirates at about 7:30 a.m. local time, 280 miles southeast of the Somali city of Eyl, a known haven for pirates, a spokesman for the United States Navy said. It is owned and operated by Maersk Line Limited, a United States subsidiary of A.P. Moller - Maersk Group, the Danish shipping giant.
The Maersk Alabama was at least the sixth commercial ship commandeered by pirates this week off the Horn of Africa, one of the most notoriously lawless zones on the high seas, where pirates have been operating with near impunity despite efforts by many nations, including the United States, to intimidate them with naval warship patrols.
There was no additional information immediately available about the crew, the company said in a statement. The ultimate destination of the ship’s cargo once it reached land was unclear.
“Our initial concern is to ensure proper support of the crew and assistance to their families,” the Maersk statement said.
The 508-foot long ship was carrying food and other agricultural materials from Djibouti, according to a company representative in Denmark who did not give her name because she was not authorized to give information to the media.
While Maersk Line Limited, based in Norfolk, Virginia, is one of the Department of Defense’s primary shipping contractors, it was not under contract with the Defense Department at the time of its hijacking, said, Lt. Stephanie Murdock, a spokeswoman with the Navy’s Fifth Fleet, based in Bahrain.
The ship can carry more than 1,100 20-foot containers and was deployed in Maersk Line’s East Africa service network, the company said.
There have been more than 50 pirate attacks this year off of the Somali coast, with the bulk of the attacks occurring in the Gulf of Aden, which separates the Arabian peninsulas from the Horn of Africa. Sixteen ships remain in pirate custody, most of them docked a few miles off the Somali coast, while ransom negotiations with the ship owners take place, said Lt. Nathan Christensen, a also a spokesman with the U.S. Navy’s Fifth Fleet.
About 15 international naval vessels now patrol the pirate-infested waters, many under a U.S. led task force created to combat piracy. There are three U.S. Navy ships patrolling the area.
At the time of the attack on the Maersk Alabama, the closest patrol vessel was some 300 nautical miles away. Most of the patrol vessels are concentrated in the Gulf of Aden, and as a result, the pirates have expanded their reach into the open seas.
“It’s that old saying: Where the cops aren’t, the criminals are going to go,” Lieutenant Christensen said. “We patrol an area of more than 1 million square miles, the simple fact of the matter is that we cant be everywhere at one time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/world/africa/09pirates.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
The Reaper
04-08-2009, 08:13
We need to make piracy a terminal disease, and soon.
The more gruesome and frequent, the better.
Rather than trying to protect the ships, maybe we should blockade the Somali ports. Worked for the Yankees.
TR
DbeforeD
04-08-2009, 08:24
Or Q-ships, worked for nazi u-boats. My prayers for the crew and their families.
Have y'all seen afchic's avatar? Maybe she's got contacts with those guys and can help with this one. :rolleyes: :D
Besides, not all pirates are bad pirates. :p
http://www.yandy.com/pirate-costumes.php
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Didnt we go through this some time back?
Within days of his March 1801 inauguration as the third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson ordered a naval and military expedition to North Africa, without the authorization of Congress, to put down regimes involved in slavery and piracy. The war was the first in which the U.S. flag was carried and planted overseas; it saw the baptism by fire of the U.S. Marine Corps--whose anthem boasts of action on "the shores of Tripoli"--
Slantwire
04-08-2009, 09:41
Didnt we go through this some time back?
Within days of his March 1801 inauguration as the third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson ordered a naval and military expedition to North Africa, without the authorization of Congress, to put down regimes involved in slavery and piracy. The war was the first in which the U.S. flag was carried and planted overseas; it saw the baptism by fire of the U.S. Marine Corps--whose anthem boasts of action on "the shores of Tripoli"--
We did. I doubt the Somalis have had enough formal education to know that bit of history. (Even if they had, it was probably listed as American imperialistic aggression.)
Time for a refresher. I second TR's motion to make piracy a quick-acting terminal condition.
Didnt we go through this some time back?
Yes and no - yes on the Somali pirates - no in that this is the first American registered vessel and crew these bozos have chosen to raid.
Within days of his March 1801 inauguration as the third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson ordered a naval and military expedition to North Africa, without the authorization of Congress, to put down regimes involved in slavery and piracy. The war was the first in which the U.S. flag was carried and planted overseas; it saw the baptism by fire of the U.S. Marine Corps--whose anthem boasts of action on "the shores of Tripoli"
But those were the Barbary Pirates and that was Thomas Jefferson - these are the Burberry Pirates and this is O-bee. They're pretty easy to spot by a Predator or on Google...whether at sea or ashore in their secret pirate enclaves. :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Have y'all seen afchic's avatar? Maybe she's got contacts with those guys and can help with this one. :rolleyes: :D
Besides, not all pirates are bad pirates. :p
http://www.yandy.com/pirate-costumes.php
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Captain Morgan is not a bad pirate, and that is the only pirate I hang out with!!!!
Looks as if the Somalis chose their victim poorly!!!!
Crew Retakes Ship Hijacked by Somali Pirates
By VOA News
Washington D.C
08 April 2009
U.S. defense officials say the crew of the U.S.-flagged cargo shipped hijacked Wednesday off the coast of Somalia has retaken control of the ship.
Officials say the crew captured one pirate and three others are believed to be in the water.
The 17,000-ton Danish-owned container vessel 'Maersk Alabama' was seized early Wednesday about 450 kilometers southeast of Eyl, a town in the northern Puntland region of Somalia. It has a crew of 20 U.S. nationals aboard.
The ship was carrying emergency food aid to Mombasa, Kenya. A spokesman for the U.N. food agency (Nairobi-based Peter Smerdon) said the cargo includes 990-tons of vegetable oil and more than 4,000 metric tons of corn-soya blend.
The incident marks the first time an American-registered ship has been hijacked by the pirates operating off the coast of East Africa.
The ship was the sixth vessel seized in the region within a week.
The United States and other nations deployed warships near Somalia late last year in an effort to stop pirates from seizing ships, but pirates appear to be venturing further out to sea to avoid the naval patrols.
Bahrain-based U.S. Navy Spokesman Nate Christensen said the closest ship was more than 550 kilometers away.
Somali pirates have seized more than 50 ships over the past 18 months, sometimes receiving multi-million dollar payments for their release.
The pirates, who operate from bases on Somalia's east coast, are currently holding more than a dozen ships and their crews.
greenberetTFS
04-08-2009, 11:21
Have y'all seen afchic's avatar? Maybe she's got contacts with those guys and can help with this one. :rolleyes: :D
Besides, not all pirates are bad pirates. :p
http://www.yandy.com/pirate-costumes.php
Richard's $.02 :munchin
We need to get a team together quickly to get "these" pirates..... I will volunteer and
I hope there are other brave and loyal experienced QP's out here willing to assist me...
GB TFS
AFCHIC
Captain Morgan is not a bad pirate, and that is the only pirate I hang out with
Youve got to watch that particular pirate. He is known to shanghigh certain individuals without their approval.;)
AFCHIC
Youve got to watch that particular pirate. He is known to shanghigh certain individuals without their approval.;)
He has shanghighed me on many occassions, yet I don't think I can call it shanghied since I went willingly ;)
I can't wait to hear the story come out about how the crew retook the ship. Now maybe these bastards will think twice.
Captain Morgan is not a bad pirate, and that is the only pirate I hang out with!!!!
Youve got to watch that particular pirate. He is known to shanghai certain individuals without their approval.;)
Yeah - last time I associated with that guy, I woke up in an alley with torn clothes, a bad headache, no money, a taste in my mouth like somebody had used it as a portapotty, and no memory of what had happened - taught me to avoid them pirate types. :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
04-08-2009, 11:48
I can't wait to hear the story come out about how the crew retook the ship. Now maybe these bastards will think twice.
I wonder if the "crew" was the only personnel on board?
Even if it was, I hope they do not tell, and no pirates survived to talk about their experience.
TR
I wonder if the "crew" was the only personnel on board?
While Maersk Line Limited, based in Norfolk, Virginia, is one of the Department of Defense’s primary shipping contractors...
It does make one wonder if it was maybe specifically manned and sent to deliver a message to the pirates in the area. I would surmise that Maersk has employees who are veterans of several of the maritime units based around the Norfolk area. :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
04-08-2009, 12:06
Reporting one in custody, three "jumped overboard".
Hmm.:rolleyes:
TR
Reporting one in custody, three "jumped overboard".
Hmm.:rolleyes:
TR
Silly pirate, sea water wont wash that lead out of your brain.
Reporting one in custody, three "jumped overboard".
Sounds like they were playing 'leap frog' and got carried away. It'll happen, you know, especially when the fourth estate is not around and off covering important events like the appropriateness of Presidential gift gaffes, the First Family's quandry when choosing a pet for the portrait to be used on their Christmas/Hannukah/Eid cards this year, prisoner complaints of excessively lumpy mattresses and oat meal at Gitmo, etc. Sounds like some of those pirates shoulda been wearing a MARSOC to keep their feet dry. :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
It is expecting too much, I suppose, but it would be great if the ship arrived at its destination with several dead pirates hanging from the yardarms.
Latest reports:
Crew retakes ship
Captain still held hostage by pirates
Richard's $.02 :munchin
US crewman: Somali pirates hold captain hostage
Katharine Houreld, AP, 8 Apr 2009
The American crew of a hijacked U.S.-flagged ship retook control of the vessel from Somali pirates Wednesday but the captain was still being held hostage, according to Pentagon officials and a member of the crew.
The crew member told The Associated Press that the 20-member crew had managed to seize one pirate and then successfully negotiate their own release.
The man, who picked up the ship's satellite phone but did not identify himself, told the AP in a brief conversation that the crew had retaken control of the ship and the pirates were in a lifeboat. But the man also said that they were holding the ship's captain hostage.
The news came hours after Pentagon officials said the crew had retaken the vessel from the Somali pirates who seized it far off the Horn of Africa.
President Barack Obama was following the situation closely, foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough said.
The ship was carrying emergency food relief to Mombasa, Kenya, when it was hijacked, the Copenhagen-based container shipping group A.P. Moller-Maersk said.
It was the sixth vessel seized within a week, a rise that analysts attribute to a new strategy by Somali pirates who are operating far from the warships patrolling the Gulf of Aden.
A U.S. official had said around noon Eastern time the crew had retaken control and had one pirate in custody.
"The crew is back in control of the ship," a U.S. official said at midday, speaking on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak on the record. "It's reported that one pirate is on board under crew control — the other three were trying to flee," the official said.
Another U.S. official, citing a readout from an interagency conference call, said: "Multiple reliable sources are now reporting that the Maersk Alabama is now under control of the U.S. crew. The crew reportedly has one pirate in custody. The status of others is unclear, they are believed to be in the water."
Maersk Line Limited CEO John F. Reinhart said the vessel's manifest showed it was carrying 401 containers of food aid bound for Africa from USAID, Serving God Ministries, the World Food Program and Catholic Relief.
He said the company received a call around 10:30 a.m. EDT from the crew that indicated the crewmen were safe. But the call got cut off, and the company could not ask any more questions.
"The crew member called to say, 'We are safe.' They did not say they had taken over the vessel. They did not say the pirates are off the vessel," Reinhart said.
Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet, said that it was the first pirate attack "involving U.S. nationals and a U.S.-flagged vessel in recent memory." She did not give an exact timeframe.
Andrea Phillips, the wife of Capt. Richard Phillips of Underhill, Vermont., said her husband has sailed in those waters "for quite some time" and a hijacking was perhaps "inevitable."
Joseph Murphy, a professor at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy, said his sons, second in command Capt. Shane Murphy, was a 2001 Massachusetts Maritime Academy graduate who recently talked to a class about the dangers of piracy.
The younger Murphy wrote on his Facebook profile that he worked in waters between Oman and Kenya.
"These waters are infested with pirates that highjack (sic) ships daily," Murphy wrote on the page, which features a photograph of him. "I feel like it's only a matter of time before my number gets called."
Joseph Murphy said his son was trained in anti-piracy tactics at the academy and received training with firearms and small-arms tactics.
Somali pirates are trained fighters who frequently dress in military fatigues and use speedboats equipped with satellite phones and GPS equipment. They are typically armed with automatic weapons, anti-tank rocket launchers and various types of grenades. Far out to sea, their speedboats operate from larger mother ships.
The U.S. Navy said that the ship was hijacked early Wednesday about 280 miles (450 kilometers) southeast of Eyl, a town in the northern Puntland region of Somalia.
U.S. Navy spokesman Lt. Nathan Christensen said the closest U.S. ship at the time of the hijacking was 345 miles (555 kilometers)away.
The Combined Maritime Forces issued an advisory Wednesday highlighting several recent attacks that occurred hundreds of miles off the Somali coast and stating that merchant mariners should be increasingly vigilant when operating in those waters.
Douglas J. Mavrinac, the head of maritime research at investment firm Jefferies & Co., noted that it is very unusual for an international ship to be U.S.-flagged and carry a U.S. crew. Although about 95 percent of international ships carry foreign flags because of the lower cost and other factors, he said, ships that are operated by or for the U.S. government — such a food aid ships like Maersk Alabama — have to carry U.S. flags, and therefore, employ a crew of U.S. citizens.
There are fewer than 200 U.S.-flagged vessels in international waters, said Larry Howard, chair of the Global Business and Transportation Department at SUNY Maritime College in New York.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy
armymom1228
04-08-2009, 13:16
Interesting article from last fall
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/09/mystery_surrounds_hi.php
With regards to this issue. At least as far back as 2003 the Gulf of Aden has been having problems with 'pirates'.
This website has a history of reported 'attacks'.
http://www.noonsite.com/General/Piracy
Current hotspots besides the Indian Ocean around Somalia are the coasts of Venezuela and Thailand, Straits of Mallacca.
The website is one aimed at private yachts rather than commerical shipping..
here is one of the problems. note the dark squares are areas covered currently by the AIS systems. Yes, I am well aware that there are DOD sites I am not able to access. However if we had more ais coverage in the Gulf of Aden/Red Sea/Indian Ocean. It might help..
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?level0=100
For grins click on the Straits of Hormuz.. pretty much always looks like a traffic jam. Small box in the far right hand corner allows one to change the regions.
I have other pages like this.. but this one is the most comprehensive at the moment that is open to the public.. for free that is..
I seem to remember that Blackwater, or whatever they call themselves at the moment, offered to go over and deal with this particular issue.. :D
rubberneck
04-08-2009, 13:55
Hopefully those three that "jumped overboard" did so 50 miles out at sea.
greenberetTFS
04-09-2009, 02:53
I seem to remember that Blackwater, or whatever they call themselves at the moment, offered to go over and deal with this particular issue.. /quote/ armymom
I think AM may have a point here. ;) I don't believe this take over was by just some regular sea man. :rolleyes: There is more to this than what we have heard so far............:eek:
GB TFS :munchin
uboat509
04-09-2009, 07:58
More on this story here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/world/africa/09pirates.html?_r=2&hp). It would seem that crew had disabled the vessel before the pirates had taken it. The crew retook the ship capturing one of the pirates but the other three made it away with the captain of the ship who they are now holding for ransom. Apparently the crew tried to exchange their prisoner for the captain but the pirates did not release him even though they released the pirate they were holding.
I thought that this was interesting.
The treacherous waters off the Horn of Africa are now patrolled by an international antipiracy armada of about 15 naval vessels, including 3 United States Navy ships.
But with most of the patrol vessels concentrated in the narrow Gulf of Aden, the pirates have expanded their reach into the open seas. At the time of the attack on the Maersk Alabama, the closest patrol vessel was about 300 nautical miles away, a Navy spokesman said.
“It’s that old saying: where the cops aren’t, the criminals are going to go,” said Lt. Nathan Christensen, a Fifth Fleet spokesman. “We patrol an area of more than one million square miles. The simple fact of the matter is that we can’t be everywhere at one time.”
SFC W
rubberneck
04-09-2009, 08:24
The one thing I don't understand is how a 28 foot boat can hijack a 750 foot cargo ship. Isn't that a guy on a tricycle carjacking a semi? I suppose it is because I am somewhat ignorant on the subject.
The one thing I don't understand is how a 28 foot boat can hijack a 750 foot cargo ship. Isn't that a guy on a tricycle carjacking a semi? I suppose it is because I am somewhat ignorant on the subject.
The small boats operate from a larger mother ship that looks like a small fishing boat.
Once a ship is targeted a small fast boat with a few people armed with AKs and RPGs takes off after it at high speed. The attack boat comes up from behind, slings a rope up to a rail and a couple of guys scramble aboard and head for the wheel house taking the crew on watch. After that it's a small matter to round up the rest of the crew.
Alert crews have beaten off the pirates with fire hoses.
armymom1228
04-09-2009, 09:34
The small boats operate from a larger mother ship that looks like a small fishing boat.
Once a ship is targeted a small fast boat with a few people armed with AKs and RPGs takes off after it at high speed. The attack boat comes up from behind, slings a rope up to a rail and a couple of guys scramble aboard and head for the wheel house taking the crew on watch. After that it's a small matter to round up the rest of the crew.
Alert crews have beaten off the pirates with fire houses.
Exactly those big container or tankers are almost fully automated needing only a crew of say, 30 to 50 at the most to run the boat. Offshore while maritime law states that there is always supposed to be a 'lookout' it is debatable that there is... any number of small private yachts have been run over by large ships and after the fact it was proved that NO one was on watch.. If there was NO lookout to notify the captain of an eminant pirate takeover then, bingo, it happens.. I have tried, on a couple of occasions, in the Fla Straits, to hail tankers or even a barge tug once.. NO reply.. getting close enough to check the bridge with binoculars revealed no one home..
With regard to the current situation. That the captain offered himself up as hostage to protect his crew. The fact is when he gets back to the states, there _will_ be enquiry. It is normal procedure. Under maritime law the captain is required to 'prudently and with due diligence' seek to protect his cargo, ship and crew' (in that order) from harm or seizure. If he is found to have not done so his license could lbe forfeited... but more likey his getting another command will not happen and that is a worse fate. This captain has acted honorably and prudently in my opinion. This whole issue is being discussed on a sailing board I am on.. most of us who are doing the debating are licensed captains.. Those issues affect us, no matter the size of our vessel.
The pirate issue affects us small boat sailors in another way. It is not just the crap in the Gulf of Aden. It is also some of the stuff that is going on off the Central American and Venezualan coasts that have cost American lives, that go unreported in the MSM.
http://www.military.com/news/article/us-navy-set-for-showdown-with-pirates.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Decent article... I am not holding my breath to see IF the navy would do something.. last I heard someone brought in FBI hostage negotiators.
My personal opinion is fairly unprintable in polite company but suffice to say that is messed up. I just don't understand WHY no one seems to want to just go to the bottom line on land and deal with it appropriately. It is not like this is a brand new issue. It has been going on for years.
and that is my half ducats worth, inflation ya know. :munchin
AM
rubberneck
04-09-2009, 11:22
I am so we have the current administration in place to deal with this. I guess the Navy can take a vacation now that the Justice Department has gotten involved.:rolleyes:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97F2DJO6&show_article=1
Holder says US considering options against pirates
Apr 9 11:48 AM US/Eastern
WASHINGTON (AP) - Attorney General Eric Holder says the United States will take whatever steps are needed to protect U.S. shipping interests against pirates.
Holder's remarks came as the U.S. Navy, working with the FBI, negotiated for the release of a lone American hostage adrift in the Indian Ocean with Somali pirates.
The incident epitomizes the limits of U.S. power in an age of increasing threat from violence-minded, faceless groups and individuals.
The attorney general said it is too early to tell what action the U.S. government might take against the pirates if they are captured.
TrapLine
04-09-2009, 12:02
I thought this was an interesting article. Nothing that would surprise anyone here, but it will be interesting to see if POTUS follows through. My guess is he won't, FWIW.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/09/2009-04-09_us_military_prepared_for_battle_with__somalia_p irates.html
U.S. military already prepared with battle plans for Somalia pirates, say intelligence sources
BY James Gordon Meek
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Thursday, April 9th 2009, 5:06 AM
"Our special operations people have been itching to clean them up. So far, no one has let them," Oakley told the Daily News.
The veteran diplomat, who also was ambassador to Pakistan, said teams of Army [edit] or Navy SEALs "could take care of the pirates in 72 hours" if given the order to strike.
"They have plans on the table but are waiting for the green light," Oakley said.
My appologies in advance if it was a mistake to post this.
The one thing I don't understand is how a 28 foot boat can hijack a 750 foot cargo ship. Isn't that a guy on a tricycle carjacking a semi? I suppose it is because I am somewhat ignorant on the subject.
Having little or no experience in shipboarding I would just say that like many small unit actions...surprise, audacity, violence of action and a little experience can carry the day for the bad guys.
The Reaper
04-10-2009, 07:33
The Captain escaped last night around midnight, and attempted to swim to safety.
No one was there to help him and he was recaptured.
WTFO!?!?
Thanks AG Holder and the FBI, who seem to be in charge of this.
Everyone in the boat should have been dead the instant the Captain was out of it.
This is a national disgrace.
TR
I thought that a US navy ship was there working the issue. You have to be kidding that they did not have a FLIR watching the boat. Guess the watch was taking a coffee break or was asleep.
FBI Only works their 8 hrs and 2 AUO hours.... then to bed or the bar they go..........
armymom1228
04-10-2009, 07:45
Having little or no experience in shipboarding I would just say that like many small unit actions...surprise, audacity, violence of action and a little experience can carry the day.
Yes, all of the above. To top it off IF there is not lookout, as required by law, in the wheelhouse all the better. Once taken the wheelhouse, you pretty much own the ship. Of course getting to go where you want and no running aground is a bit of a sticking point.. minor details. I can just see it now... "pon pon, I mean mayday mayday, we have just run aground on .. well somewhere.. you want to know what? whats a logitude? "
Meanwhile the US Navy sqids are singing, "You ain't been around, (if you ain't been aground)" in the background.
The more amusing part is that on one hand we have a tiny red lifeboat bobbing in the Indian Ocean, with a huge Navy destoyer hovering over it.
Seems to me someone has some major cujones to sit there and have the temerity to negotiate...okay admitted he has 'the captain'...but all things considered, a prudent, sane individual(s) would just call it a day and hand over the captain and chalk this one up to experience. :munchin
This is a national disgrace
Someday someone will have to set me down and explain to me just what qualifies the F.B.I. to become involved in international decisions and affairs. Everytime they get involved its a "Soup Sandwich".
What are they thinking waiting for the FBI, when you have SF and SOF assets not two hours (airtime) away from the highjacking site.
Someday someone will have to set me down and explain to me just what qualifies the F.B.I. to become involved in international decisions and affairs. Everytime they get involved its a "Soup Sandwich".
What are they thinking waiting for the FBI, when you have SF and SOF assets not two hours (airtime) away from the highjacking site.
The FBI is excellent in a couple of areas....Investigations is one of them. The Agents are very through, procedural and detail oriented. In a criminal investigation they are very good. This, in my opinion, is not a criminal act...it's an act of war/terrorism and I think a little out of the FBI area of expertise. I suppose they are attempting to get HRT (the SWAT team with no jobs) some work. This should be a military operation not LE just to send the right message to these animals. I guess the FBI would arrest these tards and bring them to the US for trail???? WTF? There is no shortage of arrogance at FBI HQ.
armymom1228
04-10-2009, 08:10
Someday someone will have to set me down and explain to me just what qualifies the F.B.I. to become involved in international decisions and affairs. Everytime they get involved its a "Soup Sandwich".
What are they thinking waiting for the FBI, when you have SF and SOF assets not two hours (airtime) away from the highjacking site.
But, but, I thought the Navy had the ............ I guess not... agreed with both TR and you.. It gets more and more silly by the moment. Itis beyond disgraceful. Even retired SEALS are online and making comments, none of which are repeatable..
The whole scenario will must emboldened the boys back home in Puntland. I mean the US Navy in all its might cannot capture what two or three scawny pirates in red lifeboat.. This is just spiffy great. It just raises the US so high in the worlds minds. :eek:
SW, this really iS a scenario that the SEALS would excel in.
The FBI is excellent in a couple of areas....Investigations is one of them. The Agents are very through, procedural and detail oriented. In a criminal investigation they are very good. This, in my opinion, is not a criminal act...it's an act of war/terrorism and I think a little out of the FBI area of expertise. I suppose they are attempting to get HRT (the SWAT team with no jobs) some work. This should be a military operation not LE just to send the right message to these animals. I guess the FBI would arrest these tards and bring them to the US for trail???? WTF? There is no shortage of arrogance at FBI HQ.
1st The FBI by law is responsible for any case world wide out of the US for a US Person being held captive for ransom.
2nd The FBI is great if you have years for them to build an air tight case like the Unibomber/Mafia/etc... But if you need a fast moving responsive Federal Agency go look some where else. They are so slow to move and make decisions this guy will probably drown before they work out the shift schedule for the 2 agents that they sent. NCIS would be better suited for this.....
One well placed scuttling charge under the life boat would put them all in the water and you know they would be worrying about swimming instead of where did the white guy go.:p A good diver in the water could get him and down they go and away... Hint Hint.....:munchin
Just my 2 cents... Hope the NCIS and FBI guys are reading this.... Back on with my tin hat......
[QUOTE=SF_BHT;258823]1st The FBI by law is responsible for any case world wide out of the US for a US Person being held captive for ransom.
QUOTE]
Roger on the above...know that...but they also have the discretion to seek outside consutation. That is where some arrogance may hinder things.
Utah Bob
04-10-2009, 08:43
The FBI hostage negotiators are very good. However, negotiating with a bunch of whacko Somali "pirates" halfway across the world by radio in another language my be just a tad too much. The Navy should be handling this.
I can't believe he got off the boat and they didn't immediately turn the boat into swiss cheese.:confused:
Team Sergeant
04-10-2009, 09:47
The FBI hostage negotiators are very good. However, negotiating with a bunch of whacko Somali "pirates" halfway across the world by radio in another language my be just a tad too much. The Navy should be handling this.
I can't believe he got off the boat and they didn't immediately turn the boat into swiss cheese.:confused:
I read somewhere President Obama considers this a very serious situation and is sending his brother and hillary to Somalia ASAP.
The Reaper
04-10-2009, 09:49
I read somewhere President Obama considers this a very serious situation and is sending his brother and hillary to Somalia ASAP.
Sending them by cargo ship?:D
TR
..I can't believe he got off the boat and they didn't immediately turn the boat into swiss cheese.:confused:
Sat Phone killed of the idea of "Master and Commander" a long time ago.
Boat: "Ah, the hostage just jumped overboard and is swimming away from the lifeboat." Base: "Are they shooting at him?" Boat: "I don't think so." Base: "Can you see any weapons?" Boat: "No, they are picking up oars." Base: "What are they doing with the oars?" Boat: "They appear to be trying to row after the hostage. Do we have permission to engage?" Base: "Let me check with the Lawyers and see what they have to say about the ROE for something like this- stand by"
After a 5 minute wait - Boat: "Base you can cancel the ROE check, the hostage is back in the lifeboat.
The FBI hostage negotiators are very good. However, negotiating with a bunch of whacko Somali "pirates" halfway across the world by radio in another language my be just a tad too much. The Navy should be handling this.
I can't believe he got off the boat and they didn't immediately turn the boat into swiss cheese.:confused:
Listen to the comments by Marcus Luttrell about the restrictions placed on the SEALS:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15621&page=2&highlight=marcus+luttrell
This is the link to the video referenced in the above thread:
http://copthetruth.typepad.com/cop_the_truth/2008/05/marcus-luttrell.html
CPTAUSRET
04-10-2009, 10:49
Sat Phone killed of the idea of "Master and Commander" a long time ago.
Boat: "Ah, the hostage just jumped overboard and is swimming away from the lifeboat." Base: "Are they shooting at him?" Boat: "I don't think so." Base: "Can you see any weapons?" Boat: "No, they are picking up oars." Base: "What are they doing with the oars?" Boat: "They appear to be trying to row after the hostage. Do we have permission to engage?" Base: "Let me check with the Lawyers and see what they have to say about the ROE for something like this- stand by"
After a 5 minute wait - Boat: "Base you can cancel the ROE check, the hostage is back in the lifeboat.
That is a sad commentary of our times...Sad, but regrettably true!
ZonieDiver
04-10-2009, 10:53
Having little or no experience in shipboarding I would just say that like many small unit actions...surprise, audacity, violence of action and a little experience can carry the day for the bad guys.
The Captain escaped last night around midnight, and attempted to swim to safety.
No one was there to help him and he was recaptured.
WTFO!?!?
Thanks AG Holder and the FBI, who seem to be in charge of this.
Everyone in the boat should have been dead the instant the Captain was out of it.
This is a national disgrace.
TR
It seems like a little "small unit action...surprise, audacity, violence of action and a little experience" could have carried the day for the "good guys," too. Too bad it wasn't applied.
D9 (RIP)
04-10-2009, 10:54
I think the cheapest solution to the Piracy issue is a two man team with a Barret on the bridge of each ship passing through that corridor. Seems like it would cost a lot less than the price of the ransoms. You get two warnings, and then we start putting big holes in your little boats. My 0.02.
I think the cheapest solution to the Piracy issue is a two man team with a Barret on the bridge of each ship passing through that corridor. Seems like it would cost a lot less than the price of the ransoms. You get two warnings, and then we start putting big holes in your little boats. My 0.02.
Why the warning? If they are showing hostile intent...;)
It appears the French launched a mission last night while all of this was going on to get back their 5 hostages. 4 were recovered alive, 1 died as well as 2 of the pirates.
D9 (RIP)
04-10-2009, 11:04
Why the warning? If they are showing hostile intent...;)
Completely agree. But that's the world we live in.
Seriously, am I wrong about this Barret business? Small, portable, relatively inexpensive and I would imagine it would tear the ass out of a 28 ft boat.
The Reaper
04-10-2009, 11:23
The pirates should be told that if the captain is injured, all of their lives are forfeit. These idiots are 350 miles at sea in a small boat with no fuel. Their options are limited. Any pirate vessels approaching the area should be shot to pieces with the forward battery or CWIS.
Then, you kill the first pirate with a warning shot through the head, and announce that terrorists will die at random intervals till the captain is released.
I suspect that the remaining pirates will figure out they will all die if they do not comply, and find that it is time for a humanitarian gesture by releasing their hostage.
If they do injure the captain, I would look through my weapons systems and find the most horrible way to kill the remaining pirates, and do it as a lesson to others.
Given the deference the CINC is showing to our enemies and friends alike, I realize that this is not going to happen, and the pirates will soon be back ashore as wealthy men, living the life of luxury and signlaing that we lack the intestinal fortitude to do what should be done, even when we have the means at hand.
TR
It appears the French launched a mission last night while all of this was going on to get back their 5 hostages. 4 were recovered alive, 1 died as well as 2 of the pirates.
Where did they say that I have not found the info yet.
Found it my gofo was wanting today...
greenberetTFS
04-10-2009, 11:33
That is a sad commentary of our times...Sad, but regrettably true!
Your right,it's sad,very sad situation we have here...................:( As someone has previous stated we lack the cojones to do the job...............
GB TFS :munchin
If it wasn't enough that nothing was done when the Captain jumped overboard, Fox News just reported that the pirates fired on the captain while he was in the water.
Given the deference the CINC is showing to our enemies and friends alike, I realize that this is not going to happen, and the pirates will soon be back ashore as wealthy men, living the life of luxury and signlaing that we lack the intestinal fortitude to do what should be done, even when we have the means at hand.
TR
Agree with you completely Sir.
Am wondering if this could be that "big first test" that was talked about after The One was elected?
Since I have never been in a scenario like this in any way, am cconfused as to why there is no standing protocol for this type of situation, but instead it is left up to the whims of the current CINC???:confused::eek:
Where are out little FROG Friends?
This should be a cake walk as much as we have spent on them........
Hell do we have to Put Charlie Sheen back into UDT shorts and a Halo Rig again.........:munchin
frostfire
04-10-2009, 12:31
If it wasn't enough that nothing was done when the Captain jumped overboard, Fox News just reported that the pirates fired on the captain while he was in the water.
If this keeps on, I wonder how long it would be before silent professional(s) starts booking up plane tickets and charter boats to make a "difference"
NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) - The American captain held hostage by four Somali pirates made a desperate escape attempt Friday but was recaptured after they fired shots, and officials said other pirates sought to reinforce their colleagues by sailing hijacked ships with other captives aboard to the scene of the standoff...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97FNAS80&show_article=1
Remove the restrictive rules of engagement, and that will change.
"We are safe and we are not afraid of the Americans," the pirates told Reuters by satellite phone. "We will defend ourselves if attacked."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514039,00.html
Since I have never been in a scenario like this in any way, am cconfused as to why there is no standing protocol for this type of situation, but instead it is left up to the whims of the current CINC???
Echo, To make a stand on this situation, does not require campaigning. It requires definitive leadership qualities! The almighty Obee should have taken some serious history classes.
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Theodore Roosevelt
France frees yacht off Somalia, hostage killed
Four other captives, including a child, are saved, officials say
msnbc.com news services
updated 2:01 p.m. CT, Fri., April 10, 2009
PARIS - The French defense minister said the navy stormed a hijacked French sailboat off the Somali coast after pirates threatened to execute the hostages. One hostage and two pirates were killed during the assault.
A presidential statement said four hostages were freed.
Defense Minister Herve Morin told a news conference Friday that French authorities had proposed a ransom but pirates rejected the offer.
He said that "negotiations were leading nowhere, and the boat was approaching the coast." It is the government's policy not to allow French citizens to be taken ashore as hostages.
He said French President Nicolas Sarkozy gave the order to attack. It came at 3:30 p.m. Paris time.
It was the third time the French have freed hostages from the hands of pirates but the first time that a hostage had been killed.
Two-day ordeal
French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s office said the death of one of five hostages came at the end of a two-day ordeal in the pirate-infested waters where the seizure of vessels by Somali pirates has become a common occurrence.
“During the operation, a hostage was unfortunately killed,” the statement said adding that the four other hostages, including the child, were “safe and sound.”
The operation began Thursday when a Navy vessel contacted the pirates and “immobilized” the Tanit, it said.
“Negotiations were started to persuade the pirates to give up their criminal undertaking,” said the statement.
“Today, threats were more precise, with the pirates refusing proposals and the Tanit moving toward the coast. An operation to free the hostages was decided.”
Details of the operation were not disclosed.
Warnings to avoid waters
The passengers in the Tanit, a tourist boat, had repeatedly been warned to avoid the dangerous waters around Somalia and the Gulf of Aden.
The boat, a Norwegian-made 47 1/2-foot sailboat with a single mast, was heading for the coast of Kenya when it was seized. The owners, a French couple, Florent and Chloe Lemacon, had left the French port of Vanves in Brittany in July on an adventure with their 3-year-old son, according to their blog. Two friends had joined them along the way.
The non-governmental group Ecoterra International, which monitors seajackings, said on its Web site that the Tanit was seized by about 14 pirates some 340 nautical miles from Bandar-Beyla on Somalia's eastern coast.
Besides the French yacht, a German ship was also seized Saturday. A Yemeni tug was taken Sunday, followed by the hijackings of a British ship and a Taiwanese vessel Monday.
A total of 14 vessels and about 200 crew members are under the control of pirates, according to the International Maritime Bureau.
Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
charlietwo
04-10-2009, 13:12
Sat Phone killed of the idea of "Master and Commander" a long time ago.
Boat: "Ah, the hostage just jumped overboard and is swimming away from the lifeboat." Base: "Are they shooting at him?" Boat: "I don't think so." Base: "Can you see any weapons?" Boat: "No, they are picking up oars." Base: "What are they doing with the oars?" Boat: "They appear to be trying to row after the hostage. Do we have permission to engage?" Base: "Let me check with the Lawyers and see what they have to say about the ROE for something like this- stand by"
After a 5 minute wait - Boat: "Base you can cancel the ROE check, the hostage is back in the lifeboat.
Ughh... Pete... That made my stomach hurt because I know something similar probably happened.
I wonder if President Obama is sweating right now, or if he even realizes how major of a situation this is.
Echo, To make a stand on this situation, does not require campaigning. It requires definitive leadership qualities! The almighty Obee should have taken some serious history classes.
Thank you sir!
Why does the CINC has this kind of situational control, instead of being TOLD by Our Armed Forces, how this will be handeled. ???
Guess I must have missed a step.:confused:
"I wonder if President Obama is sweating right now, or if he even realizes how major of a situation this is." charlietwo
Very well said SIR!!!
Holly:eek:
To add insult to injury, a Fox News commentator stated the French are more 'aggressive', referring to their rescue of the hostages on board the seized yacht. In this situation, it appears he is correct.
charlietwo
04-10-2009, 13:56
To add insult to injury, a Fox News commentator stated the French are more 'aggressive', referring to their rescue of the hostages on board the seized yacht. In this situation, it appears he is correct.
That was my first thought as well... France > America.... :confused:
Sarkozy must be riding high in the eyes of his conservative supporters (what few remain).
To add insult to injury, a Fox News commentator stated the French are more 'aggressive', referring to their rescue of the hostages on board the seized yacht. In this situation, it appears he is correct.
Navy Seals, Force Recon, Army Rangers and finally Army Special Forces...Okay I am, as alot of civilian folks I know, confused!
This is what the United States Military has these Units for!
Why not use Them????
Am starting to think Obama must have "missed" The Briefing!:mad:
Holly
Navy Seals, Force Recon, Army Rangers and finally Army Special Forces...Okay I am, as alot of civilian folks I know, confused!
This is what the United States Military has these Units for!
Why not use Them????
Am starting to think Obama must have "missed" The Briefing!:mad:
Holly
I don't recall the previous CINC doing much about the piracy problem off the coast of Somalia.
I don't recall the previous CINC doing much about the piracy problem off the coast of Somalia.
You are right in your statement about the previous CINC.
Other than talking and coming up with plans he didn't do too much.
The difference is that now they have snagged one of "our" ship captains. This now makes it our business.
And it seems like they are waiting for the other pirates to show up with even more boats and hostages.
Talk about a goat rope fixin' to get started.
The difference is that now they have snagged one of "our" ship captains. This now makes it our business.
You are correct. I can't help but wonder if the pirates had been dealt with earlier and aggressively, we wouldn't be in this situation.
I can't help but wonder if the pirates had been dealt with earlier and aggressively, we wouldn't be in this situation.
I don't recall the previous CINC doing much about the piracy problem off the coast of Somalia.
The difference is that now they have snagged one of "our" ship captains. This now makes it our business.
This is an all too familiar story to those of us who have worked at the theater/embassy/UN levels. For instance, during GW1, we were taking the lead for the ops in the sandbox while the EU (led by a French GO) were going to take care of the Balkans spat - after all, it was a European problem and they could handle it. Well, we all know how that one ended up, too. :rolleyes:
NATO was strongly committed to taking care of the pirate issue while we continued to focus on keeping the jihadis out of their pubs, brasseries, and kellers.
And for those of us who lived through the Carter years, well...the NCA's handling of this current situation has an all too familiar a ring to it.
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Other than talking and coming up with plans he didn't do too much.
The difference is that now they have snagged one of "our" ship captains. This now makes it our business.
This had been an International decision, until 17 December 08, when the U.N. Security council authorized states fighting piracy off of Somalia's coast to conduct air and land attacks on pirate bases on the coast of the H.O.A.
These thugs are blatently constructing multi million dollar mansions showing the world that yes crime does pay.
I know there are more pin-point weapon systems available to the military then there was in my day. But old fashioned Napalm sure has a helluva psychological effect.
olhamada
04-10-2009, 15:33
The pirates should be told that if the captain is injured, all of their lives are forfeit. These idiots are 350 miles at sea in a small boat with no fuel. Their options are limited. Any pirate vessels approaching the area should be shot to pieces with the forward battery or CWIS.
Then, you kill the first pirate with a warning shot through the head, and announce that terrorists will die at random intervals till the captain is released.
I suspect that the remaining pirates will figure out they will all die if they do not comply, and find that it is time for a humanitarian gesture by releasing their hostage.
If they do injure the captain, I would look through my weapons systems and find the most horrible way to kill the remaining pirates, and do it as a lesson to others.
Given the deference the CINC is showing to our enemies and friends alike, I realize that this is not going to happen, and the pirates will soon be back ashore as wealthy men, living the life of luxury and signlaing that we lack the intestinal fortitude to do what should be done, even when we have the means at hand.
TR
TR, I love the way you think. I agree, that if this was the way we fought, we'd end up in a lot fewer "conflicts".
An Entebbe operation would be great but ..............
I believe there are, 18 more or less, ships being held with over 200 hostages being held. These ships are from various countries and scattered in various locations. I guess it is possible but 18 simultaneous operations would be difficult t.
OTOH I understand France rescued a French boat with 15 aboard with only one death.
We like to knock the French but they look out for their own.
There is a German ship heading that way. Perhaps the GS will take some action.
:munchin
Bill Harsey
04-10-2009, 19:36
If I'm tracking this correctly, the most powerful country on the planet is getting jammed up by several Somali pirates?
What an incredible opportunity!
Look at the extraordinary amount of taxable U.S. dollars there are in this unique and sustainable "earth friendly green business".
We've got hundreds of commercial fishing craft sitting idle on the Oregon coast because of various environmental fishing restrictions (none of which seem apply to the foreign nationals who ply these same waters about 100 yds. outside of our territorial waters). These Oregon boys could get some of the new federal magic dollars for fuel, sail to the current profit zone and get to work holding up our own ships thus providing all the money needed to right the world's money troubles.
Edited to add: ...and you thought I didn't understand the current white house economic strategy.
Bring on the FROGS..... Oh I am sorry they have to ship in the Gym equipment and finish their Max Tanning Time before they get the Go Order.....:p
Charlie Sheen is busy doing his show so the Opn will have to wait a few days....:rolleyes::boohoo
Bill Harsey
04-11-2009, 08:46
Bring on the FROGS..... Oh I am sorry they have to ship in the Gym equipment and finish their Max Tanning Time before they get the Go Order.....:p
Looks like they will have time to get set up because the Obama Team is now mulling the aims of Somali extremists.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041003734.html?
and here I'd thought it was the pirates we had to worry about.
Looks like they will have time to get set up because the Obama Team is now mulling the aims of Somali extremists.
Another day...another community to get organized. :rolleyes:
I'm for having Congress give their brethern pirates a stimulus bailout - with all the strings attached to those loans and after the GM affair, our government would be in charge of them all in no time, they'd file for bankruptcy, we'd sell the debt to the Chinese who would then step in with a loan, the pirates would all apply for political asylum and use their loans to build mansions along the Libyan coast and begin living lives of luxury, and we'd never hear from them again - until the 2010 elections when O-bee would claim them as a success story for his administration's efforts to restore America's internationally. :p
OTOH - let's just cut the crapola and show them what a Phalanx does to small boats filled with criminals.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Guess O-bee's kumbaya negotiating methods aren't working quite as well as he'd hoped...:rolleyes:
Somali pirates have hijacked an American-owned tugboat with 16 crew in the Gulf of Aden, the head of the East African Seafarers' Assistance Program said Saturday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-04-11-somalia-pirates-us-saturday_N.htm?csp=YahooModule_News
Richard's $.02 :munchin
perdurabo
04-11-2009, 09:54
If they do injure the captain, I would look through my weapons systems and find the most horrible way to kill the remaining pirates, and do it as a lesson to others.
Here's hoping the Navy carries rusty, but operational lawnmowers on their ships...
(Hey, they've got to keep their on-ship golf greens pretty with something!) :D
greenberetTFS
04-11-2009, 11:25
You are correct. I can't help but wonder if the pirates had been dealt with earlier and aggressively, we wouldn't be in this situation.
Your so right about them taking an early and much more aggressive action to this situation. The Navy Seals would and should have been involved from the very beginning of this now recently developed fiasco.........:confused:
GB TFS :munchin
charlietwo
04-11-2009, 11:28
I wasn't alive during the time, but this reeks of the Iranian Embassy situation.
How long do you think it will take before Obama pulls the trigger on proactive action? Or do you think he'll just pull the trigger on his own foot? :confused:
I'm ashamed of the leadership of this Country, they don't seem to have a pair between all of them.
Somebody should tell the Organizer in Chief abour this story.
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/africa/-/1066/559618/-/item/0/-/ttgyc7/-/index.html
The Newspapers seem to know where everybody is.
And now the cheeky little buggers are shooting at US Sailors.
armymom1228
04-11-2009, 18:28
Sending them by cargo ship?:D
TR
Rowboat with Bill rowing.:D
Interesting article from the bbc online
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7991512.stm
AM
Team Sergeant
04-11-2009, 18:34
I wasn't alive during the time, but this reeks of the Iranian Embassy situation.
How long do you think it will take before Obama pulls the trigger on proactive action? Or do you think he'll just pull the trigger on his own foot? :confused:
Want to take bets on Obama's "actions"? I'm betting he sends the pirates $100 Billion and promises them free medical care, a UAW retirement package, school & worker Visas.
armymom1228
04-11-2009, 21:46
I found this article on the Washington Post just now..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/11/AR2009041100566.html
In an article on Al Jazeera, it said that the lifeboat was within 34 km of the Somali coast.
excerpts:
The USS Halyburton, a guided-missile frigate equipped with helicopters, joined the destroyer USS Bainbridge on Friday; the amphibious assault ship USS Boxer was on the way with missile launchers, attack planes and a crew of 1,000. The floating arsenal is facing down pirates thought to be armed with pistols and a few machine guns
As the Maersk Alabama docked, crew members in blue coveralls tied ropes and radioed commands while Navy SEALs who escorted the ship to port hurried up and down the decks in camouflage and black Maersk Alabama baseball caps.
And.....this is the downside of the requirement that commerical shipping use AIS. All one has to do is have a computer hooked up to the internet and bingo you can know where any ship with the AIS system is..
These days, the pirates use Global Positioning System devices and other sophisticated equipment to snag bigger, faster ships
an example is this... Chesepeake AIS tracking. (I have a whole _lot_ more ais sites.)
http://www.popularwireless.com/sp/aisheader.html
The other side of that coin, is that we pretty much can find any ship with that system anywhere it is on the globe. ANY boat, no matter the size or usage, that has AIS can be easily tracked. So for the US Navy to be so far away makes no real sense.
My question is IF the SEALS were there, as they state, then why the heck did they not overcome FOUR pirates?
...My question is IF the SEALS were there, as they state, then why the heck did they not overcome FOUR pirates?
The SEALs were placed on the ship after the US Navy showed up - after all the key events happened.
I wonder if the SSN-772 is on station nearby?
Team Sergeant
04-12-2009, 07:38
My question is IF the SEALS were there, as they state, then why the heck did they not overcome FOUR pirates?
The SEALS (and Special Forces) could kill four pirates in about 3/10ths of a second, killing morons is not the problem, doing it before "they" kill the hostage is the "trick".;) Not too many places to "hide" a few SEALS on an open ocean and you cannot shoot guns from "underwater"......
This is not reality TV, this is real, the outcome will be final. ;)
TS
rocknrolla
04-12-2009, 08:37
It appears our CINC has more pressing issues to deal with before he gets around to resolving this crisis. :rolleyes:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Weekend/story?id=7317449&page=1
ObliqueApproach
04-12-2009, 09:21
If they do injure the captain, I would look through my weapons systems and find the most horrible way to kill the remaining pirates, and do it as a lesson to others.
TR
Do you think they still have: flogged around the fleet, keel hauling, drawn and quartered, hanging, flogged, and/or hung in chains in the punishment for pirates in this day and age?:munchin
For those interested, try reading Dangerous Waters by John Burkett. He predicted what we are facing today and gives a good insight into how modern "pirates" operate. He was a victim as well, so speaks from experience.
Some of the "Somali Pirates" are from a former Somali 50-ish man "Coast Guard" trained by Hart Security from 1999 to 2002 to fight against the pirates. Unintended consequences anyone?
Apparantly "talks" have broken down and now the lifeboat is getting closer to shore. There is worry that once they make land, it will be harder to track Capt. Phillips location.
On Fox News this morning, John Bolton contributed to the news piece and stated that this should NOT be treated as a law enforcement case.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514696,00.html
Capt. Phillips, my prayers go to you and your family.
Blitzzz (RIP)
04-12-2009, 09:35
Seal can handle this. Mini sub under the boat...> noise distractions outside the boat (phyops chatter)....> Seals drill holes to sink the boat and wait outside (under water to (recover) the Pirates and Hostage when they bail out. They shouldn't kill the hostage becuase the boat is sinking. Just a thought. Bllitzzz
Seal can handle this. Mini sub under the boat...> noise distractions outside the boat (phyops chatter)....> Seals drill holes to sink the boat and wait outside (under water to (recover) the Pirates and Hostage when they bail out. They shouldn't kill the hostage becuase the boat is sinking. Just a thought. Bllitzzz
Great way and I was thinking about the same thing until I researched the life boats. Hell they are almost unsinkable. Damn Styrofoam will not sink....
The company gloats that you can fill the boat with water and it still stays upright.....
I was thinking since it is enclosed just drill some holes and pump in gas and they all go to sleep........
Utah Bob
04-12-2009, 10:39
This one's a real challenge. Ya can't see inside. The damn thing won't sink. Gas isn't quick enough. They could still pull the trigger.
My ole brain can't come up with a fool proof plan. :(
I hope somebody does.
Maybe give em all the money they want and promise to escort them safely to shore.
Then light em up.
Blitzzz (RIP)
04-12-2009, 10:40
Gas would work most assuredly. Like minds that's why teams work so well. Dave
...I was thinking about the same thing until I researched the life boats. Hell they are almost unsinkable. Damn Styrofoam will not sink...the company gloats that you can fill the boat with water and it still stays upright...
FWIW - way too much ventilation and too complicated for complex ideas - from an old combat diver - KISS = styrofoam burns...and I wouldn't stay inside a burning life boat set afire by an attached flare. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Kyobanim
04-12-2009, 11:05
I think one of those big ole submarines doing an emergency surface right next to the boat would do the trick. They could probably sell the video to that and make a fortune.
Paint a picture of Shamu on the side of the sub for additional laughs.
FWIW - way too much ventilation and too complicated for complex ideas - from an old combat diver - KISS = styrofoam burns...and I wouldn't stay inside a burning life boat set afire by an attached flare. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
swim up and throw a few bags of napalm and light it up. Go under and wait for the set of white legs to get in the water. Pull him under and swim away...... Wait and see if they can swim........what 350 miles to shore....
Good Army Idea.... Low cost, low tech and effective......
Navy Way - research the opn, request funds from congress, select contractors, build multiple prototypes, add a new team to NSW that are specialist. Build a new delivery system and in 20 years be ready to field a solution. All Pirates are old and retired and the Navy says they have solved the Pirate problem.
Fox News just reported that Capt. Phillips has been freed!!! Three of the kidnappers have been killed, the fourth is in custody; and they are saying that perhaps SEALs attacked the lifeboat.
Thank God he will be going home to his family soon!
Gutsy Guy! He jumped overboard again and the SEALS took advantage of it this go round.
Well done, well done!
Matta mile
04-12-2009, 11:48
Thats GREAT News!
MM
One for the record books! Great job.
OK now...............what is the over/under for the movie release...1 year?
Puertoland
04-12-2009, 12:05
Excellent news, glad that three of them got what they deserve.
Ironic for the Pirates this should happen on Easter Day, hope the Captain enjoys his.
Utah Bob
04-12-2009, 12:21
Outstanding!!
One talking head said, ".. he was rescued by SEALs or perhaps Military Personnel":rolleyes:
6.8SPC_DUMP
04-12-2009, 13:01
Just what America needed. Thanks for all the tactical insight.
Happy Easter
One terrific individual!
He will be the guest speaker at every E&E/S.E.R.E. school in the United States.
Quote from FOX News: "And, the FBI is still investigating the crime scene". Boy, Im glad we have these guys working for us.
We had a moment of silence at our table around 12:30, for the Captin and...Just saw the news!
Well done U.S. Military Forces!:lifter
Holly
Great news! Sometimes, things do turn out right! :)
Surf n Turf
04-12-2009, 15:02
Here is the Naval Officer that made the “GO” decision
SnT
Commanding Officer
USS Bainbridge (DDG-96)
Commander Frank X. Castellano
http://www.bainbridge.navy.mil/site%20pages/coc.aspx
Navy Crew Arrives to Assess Pirate Situation
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=44210
The Reaper
04-12-2009, 15:17
Well done, Gents.
TR
Darn I was hoping to see that they fire bombed the guys out and then shot them. Well Good to hear he is free and safe.:D
Also good to hear there are 3 less to fight over for a trial..... Next thing they will see the Doc and say they were beaten and abused as a kid and that is what made them become Pirates. We pat them on the head and give them visa's to the US for Medical Help.:eek::confused:
Looking forward to the AAR.....
TrapLine
04-12-2009, 15:34
Great news that the captain is free. Thank you and congratulations to all those who played apart in the opperation. After just coming home from a swimming workout, I think they should release the 4th pirate about 500 miles off the coast. Swimming gives one plenty of time to consider their life.....and in his case death.
From all of the predictions and criticisms I think the supply of edible crow may be getting low.:rolleyes:
Surgicalcric
04-12-2009, 16:02
Well done guys; well done.
Crip
Utah Bob
04-12-2009, 16:06
Of course the press is clamoring for every detail of the op. Hopefully they won't get any.
Blitzzz (RIP)
04-12-2009, 16:16
I doubt they where snipers. any Seal should be able to hit a mam at 200 feet with an M-4 and AGOG.
Snipers zeroed out to 300 meters may have a tougher shot at 200 feet.
But Great Job Seals but maybe needed another shooter (4th).
Congrates Blitzzz
uboat509
04-12-2009, 16:19
Of course the press is clamoring for every detail of the op. Hopefully they won't get any.
Now that the operation is over there probably isn't any reason not to give them most of the details. That way credit can go to the people who have earned it and it will serve as a nice warning to any other pirates. I suspect that the truth of how it actually went down will be much scarier than anything the pirates might dream up.
SFC W
armymom1228
04-12-2009, 16:45
The SEALS (and Special Forces) could kill four pirates in about 3/10ths of a second, killing morons is not the problem, doing it before "they" kill the hostage is the "trick".;) Not too many places to "hide" a few SEALS on an open ocean and you cannot shoot guns from "underwater"......
This is not reality TV, this is real, the outcome will be final. ;)
TS
No lie, and it ended in the exact scenario I prayed would happen.
So the SEALS got in some target practice?;)
Fantastic news!
Gotta give Captain credit to for thinking on his feet. What honor and courage.. amazing man.
aegisnavy
04-12-2009, 18:50
Here is the Naval Officer that made the “GO” decision
SnT
Commanding Officer
USS Bainbridge (DDG-96)
Commander Frank X. Castellano
http://www.bainbridge.navy.mil/site%20pages/coc.aspx
Navy Crew Arrives to Assess Pirate Situation
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=44210
A former classmate at the boat school. Glad this one had the best kind of ending.
Team Sergeant
04-12-2009, 19:18
No lie, and it ended in the exact scenario I prayed would happen.
So the SEALS got in some target practice?;)
Fantastic news!
Gotta give Captain credit to for thinking on his feet. What honor and courage.. amazing man.
Oh yea of little faith..... ;) (It ended like it should have.)
Resolved in 2/10ths of a second.
Well done SEALS, well done.
Beers on me. :D
TS
armymom1228
04-12-2009, 21:07
Oh yea of little faith..... ;) (It ended like it should have.)
Resolved in 2/10ths of a second.
Well done SEALS, well done.
Beers on me. :D
TS
I had plenty of faith in our guys TS. :D
I was prepared though, to send the pentagon a back up plan.
http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2009/04/08/
First - kudos to the SEALs who got the shot and took it.
Second - kudos to the Commander of the ship who had the sense to let them do the job when the opportunity presented itself - such a chance seldom happens a second time.
Third - following is a taste of what we'll be seeing in the MSM and political arena regarding this issue.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
**********
Analysis: Obama beats first national security test
Jennifer Loven, AP, 13 Apr 2009
WASHINGTON – The U.S. economy is showing only glimmers of life and two costly wars remain in the balance, but President Barack Obama's "no drama" handling of the Indian Ocean hostage crisis proved a big win for his administration in its first critical national security test.
Obama's quiet backstage decision to authorize the Defense Department to take necessary action if Capt. Richard Phillips' life was in imminent danger gave a Navy commander the go-ahead to order snipers to fire on the pirates holding the cargo ship captain at gunpoint.
For Obama, the benefits were instantly clear: an American life saved and a major victory notched against an increasingly worrisome scourge of the seas off the Horn of Africa.
Obama's handling of the crisis showed a president who was comfortable in relying on the U.S. military, much as his predecessor, George W. Bush, did.
But it also showed a new commander in chief who was willing to use all the tools at his disposal, bringing in federal law enforcement officials to handle the judicial elements of the crisis.
The rescue appeared to vindicate Obama's muted but determined handling of the incident. What won't be known for some time is whether Obama will benefit politically.
When Obama campaigns for re-election, he may take Bush's approach of turning any such incident into evidence of his leadership acumen. On the other hand, Obama didn't go before the cameras Sunday to trumpet the success, instead releasing a written statement that saluted the bravery of the military and Phillips but claimed no credit for himself.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_pirates_analysis
The antihero
04-13-2009, 05:27
Excellent job U.S.Navy! Well done, well done.
Remington Raidr
04-13-2009, 06:19
to the Blue and Gold. So, I was in my favorite watering hole last night when this breathless dishevled guy bellied up to the bar an announced he just got back that standoff and he was one of the shooters and they gave them immediate leave to decompress and . . . aw, just kidding, the posers will wait as least a week . . .:munchin
Congrads to our Brother in Arms in the Navy. Shot's well done.....:lifter
First - kudos to the SEALs who got the shot and took it.
Second - kudos to the Commander of the ship who had the sense to let them do the job when the opportunity presented itself - such a chance seldom happens a second time.
Third - following is a taste of what we'll be seeing in the MSM and political arena regarding this issue.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
**********
Analysis: Obama beats first national security test
Jennifer Loven, AP, 13 Apr 2009
WASHINGTON – The U.S. economy is showing only glimmers of life and two costly wars remain in the balance, but President Barack Obama's "no drama" handling of the Indian Ocean hostage crisis proved a big win for his administration in its first critical national security test.
Obama's quiet backstage decision to authorize the Defense Department to take necessary action if Capt. Richard Phillips' life was in imminent danger gave a Navy commander the go-ahead to order snipers to fire on the pirates holding the cargo ship captain at gunpoint.
For Obama, the benefits were instantly clear: an American life saved and a major victory notched against an increasingly worrisome scourge of the seas off the Horn of Africa.
Obama's handling of the crisis showed a president who was comfortable in relying on the U.S. military, much as his predecessor, George W. Bush, did.
But it also showed a new commander in chief who was willing to use all the tools at his disposal, bringing in federal law enforcement officials to handle the judicial elements of the crisis.
The rescue appeared to vindicate Obama's muted but determined handling of the incident. What won't be known for some time is whether Obama will benefit politically.
When Obama campaigns for re-election, he may take Bush's approach of turning any such incident into evidence of his leadership acumen. On the other hand, Obama didn't go before the cameras Sunday to trumpet the success, instead releasing a written statement that saluted the bravery of the military and Phillips but claimed no credit for himself.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_pirates_analysis
Richard, the only thing they missed was either having Barry preparing to board AF1 enroute to a nearby location OR placing him on the bridge of the ship. I can't imagine the Messiah missing out on this. :D
But all pithiness aside, thanks for sharing that article. I listened to the constant chatter yesterday about the "possible" outcomes for the remaining terrorist. I particularly loved how they emphasized that this suriviving terrorist seemed to want to "give himself up". Then they summized that he would be tried in court in NYC. Gotta love that, I can't wait to pay for that with my tax dollars...too bad he couldn't have slept with the fishes! :lifter
Well done my Brother Seal.
Thats the way to bloody there noses .. Next!!! :munchin
U.S. Defense officials said snipers got the go-ahead to fire after one pirate held an AK-47 so close to Capt. Richard Phillips' back that the weapon appeared to be touching him. Two other pirates popped their heads up, giving snipers three clear targets, one official said.
Pirate whack-a-mole! :D
A fourth pirate surrendered after boarding the Bainbridge earlier...
Outstanding - an Intel source on how the pirates operate and a five day pass for the SEALs. ;)
Angry pirates vowed retaliation for the deaths, raising fears for the safety of some 230 foreign sailors still held hostage in more than a dozen ships anchored off the coast of lawless Somalia.
Now everybody gets to play pirate whack-a-mole! :lifter
Richard's $.02 :munchin
We need to get a bunch of those Life Boats and pass them out so we can make Pirate Whack A Mole a lot easier. Gives you a good shot perspective with that Orange vs Pirate contrast....... :eek:
Ret10Echo
04-13-2009, 08:05
Kudos to the shooters...
SOMEday the press will get their terminology straight....
(Reuters)
U.S. Navy frees kidnapped captain
1 hour 29 mins ago
U.S. Navy special forces freed an American ship's captain and killed three Somali pirates holding him hostage in a lifeboat, ending a five-day standoff but drawing vows of revenge from pirates.
NoRoadtrippin
04-13-2009, 09:12
If someone would just break it down for these guys, maybe they'd see the logic and just go home? :rolleyes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2009/apr/10/somalia-usa
I'd put the USS New York (LPD-21) - with appropriate attached personnel/materiel - out there to (a) make a psyops point as to our intentions in the region and with this issue, and (b) to take care of business.
http://www.ussnewyork.com/ussny_about.html
http://www.ussnewyork.com/ussny_gallery.html
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Utah Bob
04-13-2009, 11:13
I don't know what the problem is with the pirate word. I've seen several anchormen call them Pilots over the past few days and this morning, Obama said that we're determined to stem the rise of Privacy in that region.
I guess Pirates is just a word they can't wrap their heads around.
I mean, there have been three "Pirates of the Carribbean" movies so what's the difficulty here?:eek:
ZonieDiver
04-13-2009, 11:24
I don't know what the problem is with the pirate word. I've seen several anchormen call them Pilots over the past few days and this morning, Obama said that we're determined to stem the rise of Privacy in that region.
I guess Pirates is just a word they can't wrap their heads around.
I mean, there have been three "Pirates of the Carribbean" movies so what's the difficulty here?:eek:
Not to mention that September 19th is "Talk Like Pirate Day" - and has been since 1995. Perhaps the rise in actual piracy can be traced to this day. :)
http://www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html
I don't know what the problem is with the pirate word. I've seen several anchormen call them Pilots over the past few days and this morning, Obama said that we're determined to stem the rise of Privacy in that region.
Have a source where he said that?
I doubt he will he commit to the years of nation building that would need to happen.
Launch a few missiles and continue to be called a hero by the media.
Utah Bob
04-13-2009, 11:51
Have a source where he said that?
I doubt he will he commit to the years of nation building that would need to happen.
Launch a few missiles and continue to be called a hero by the media.
I was watching him speak at the Dept of Transportation this morning on CNN when he said it.
Have a source where he said that?
Go here http://www.cnn.com/video/#/world
Click on video Obama: Hold pirates accountable
He says "privacy" and then later says "piracy" - silence from the crowd who used to give GWB so much grief for such verbal gaffes. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
04-13-2009, 12:32
Oh yea of little faith..... ;) (It ended like it should have.)
Resolved in 2/10ths of a second.
Well done SEALS, well done.
Beers on me. :D
TS
This is the result of letting the Seals be Seals. This would have been over the minute they could have gotten the Seals in there to do their job.......................:rolleyes:
GB TFS :munchin
Go here http://www.cnn.com/video/#/world
Click on video Obama: Hold pirates accountable
He says "privacy" and then later says "piracy" - silence from the crowd who used to give GWB so much grief for such verbal gaffes. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Thanks Sir.
From the video it sounds as if POTUS will not be approving anything aggressive at this point.
Not surprised.
uboat509
04-13-2009, 12:49
This is the result of letting the Seals be Seals. This would have been over the minute they could have gotten the Seals in there to do their job.......................:rolleyes:
GB TFS :munchin
I think it was over the minute the SEALs got in there.
SFC W
uboat509
04-13-2009, 13:04
Honestly, I think that the only way to really end piracy in that region would either be to station a significant naval presence there or to try and "fix" Somalia. Neither option seems particularly viable. It would be a lot of water to cover with a naval presence and I don't even want to think about trying to get involved in Somalia. There are large parts of Somalia that make Helmand look like the Bay Area. Eventually it boils down to a cost benifit analysis. Only a finite number if US warships are available so the question becomes, is the loss of US cargo greater than the cost of operating the number of naval vessals in the region that it would take to have an impact?
SFC W
uboat509
04-13-2009, 13:17
Another interesting piracy article here (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/royal-navy-may--be-forced-to-free-captured-pirates-1662947.html). It seems that there is now no international agreement on what to do with any pirates that are captured. As common criminals rather than insurgents or terrorists they wouldn't really be candidates for Guantanamo or even prosecution in the states. Before anyone suggests it, summary executions will never be authorized by US military forces. It will be interesting to see what they do with the pirate that they captured.
Pirates captured by Royal Navy warships patrolling off East Africa may have to be set free because there is no international agreement over where they can be legally prosecuted.
Internal Foreign Office documents seen by The Independent on Sunday lay bare the behind-the-scenes wrangling that could neuter the UK-led effort against the growing problem of pirates terrorising vessels in one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.
The collection of memos and briefing notes detail critical problems with Operation Atalanta since it was hurriedly agreed by the European Union last November in response to a series of high-profile pirate attacks around the Horn of Africa.
SFC W
Dozer523
04-13-2009, 13:46
Richard, the only thing they missed was either having Barry preparing to board AF1 enroute to a nearby location OR placing him on the bridge of the ship. I can't imagine the Messiah missing out on this. :D Yeah, if he'd gotten off his lazy a$$ I'll bet the the Annoited One coulda found that "Mission Accomplished" banner. That thing was huge! And how tough would it be to find a flight suit -- he is only average size. . . and he mighta looked way cool huggin those flight deck folks. Nah goes against that "No Dramma, Obama' BS! What a chump.
Pretty interesting reading. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Gates: White House did not delay pirate operation
William H. McMichael, Military Times, 13 Apr 2009
Defense Secretary Robert Gates gave high marks to the daring Easter Sunday operation off the coast of Somalia that freed a U.S. merchant captain from four pirates in a lifeboat, and he called news reports incorrect that implied the White House resisted the Pentagon's request to use deadly force.
"It was textbook," Gates said Monday of the rescue, in which Navy snipers aboard the destroyer Bainbridge shot and killed the three pirates who held Capt. Richard Phillips hostage — the fourth was on the Bainbridge at the time — ending a five-day impasse. "They were patient, they got the right people and the right equipment in place, and then did what they do."
Gates, interviewed after a morning visit with students at the Marine Corps University in Quantico, Va., confirmed that the Pentagon sought two authorizations from the White House for the use of deadly force in resolving the crisis but said each request was for a separate military unit.
"One was in the [area of operations], and another came from the U.S.," Gates said. "And so the reason that there were two requests was because there were two groups of people." Gates wouldn't confirm that he was referring to Navy SEALs, but Vice Adm. William Gortney, commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, told reporters during a Sunday press conference that SEALs "were involved in the rescue attempt."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-04-13-pirates-gates_N.htm?csp=YahooModule_News
uboat509
04-13-2009, 15:44
Another update here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514735,00.html). It seems that US prosecutors can bring charges against him in a US court because it was was a US flagged ship with US citizens aboard. The confusion appears to be what to do with pirates who are captured under different circumstances.
Also of note, this is apparently the first case of piracy against a US flagged vessel in hundreds of years.
SFC W
armymom1228
04-13-2009, 15:59
I hope this reposting is okay.
The captain of this sailboat is a ret SEAL, though they don't mention it.
The incident happened in March 2005. Here we are 4 yrs later. I have to wonder why NO one took action then. The article below was not an isolated incident.
Mahdi, at least , and maybe Gandalf are US flagged and documented vessel(s).
I guess the fact that they were US citizens were not enough to get the Navy to patrol the area.
The article is from the archives of the magazine Latitude 38.. Friend sent it to me.. asked for the link, will post it at the bottom as an edit when he does..
Cruisers Apparently Kill Attacking Pirates off Yemen
March 16 - San Francisco Bay
The following report by Rodney J. Nowlin, USN Retired, of the cruising vessel Mahdi, has been forwarded to us by many readers. It was written on March 11:
"On March 8, 2005, two sailing yachts, Mahdi and Gandalf, were moving southwest 30 miles off the coast of Yemen proceeding to the port of Aden from Salalah, Oman. At about 0900, two outboard-powered boats, both about 25 feet long with three aboard, passed off our stern moving south at about 25 knots. An hour or two later they returned, one coming quite close and looking us over carefully. The second boat passed our bows, but quite a ways away. These boats were obviously not engaged in a normal activity such as fishing, etc. At that time we were south of Al Mukalla, Yemen. The area around Al Mukalla is well documented as being a piracy problem area, so we started watching carefully for anything out of the ordinary.
"At about 1600, we observed two different boats approaching us head-on from the southwest. These boats were 25-30 feet long, had higher freeboard than the others, and were diesel powered. They were coming directly at us very quickly, and there were four men in each boat. The boats separated at about 200 yards, one boat ahead of the other, coming down Mahdi's port side and firing into the
cockpit. The other boat fired an automatic weapon at both Gandalf and Mahdi, but mostly at Gandalf, from ahead. These guys were shooting directly at the cockpits, and obviously intended to kill us.
"The first boat then swung around behind Mahdi's stern to come up and board us. At that point I, Rod Nowlin, aboard Mahdi and armed with a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, started shooting into their boat. I forced them to keep their heads down so that they could not shoot at us. I'm not sure that I hit anyone at that point, although I could see the driver of the boat crouched down behind a steering console. After firing three shots at them, their engine started to smoke, so I swung around to shoot at the boat ahead.
"At that point, I saw Jay Barry on Gandalf ram the boat amidships, almost cutting it in two, and turning it almost completely over. I turned back around to shoot again at the boat behind Mahdi, and that is when they turned away from Mahdi and were heading toward the stern of Gandalf. Gandalf was beside us, about 100 feet away. The bow of the pirate's boat came right up against Gandalf's stern, and two men stood up on the bow to board Gandalf. That was a serious and probably fateful error on their part, as I shot both of them. The boat then veered away, and I shot the driver - although I'm not sure of the outcome because they were further away and my shot hadn't knocked him over like the other two.
"Mahdi and Gandalf then kept going at full speed to put as much distance between the pirates and us as possible. As soon as we were out of rifle range, we looked back and saw that both boats were drifting and appeared to be disabled.
"If Jay on Gandalf had not had the presence of mind to veer over into the one boat and ram it, the outcome of this attack would have been totally different, for all the pirates needed to do was stand off a ways and shoot us to pieces with their automatic weapons. We were extremely lucky.
"We broadcast Mayday calls on all VHF and HF radio frequencies, including two HF emergency frequencies supplied by the U.S. Coast Guard a few days before. The Coalition Forces in the area were supposed to be monitoring these frequencies. There was no response except from a commercial ship in the area, which approached and observed the disabled pirates for a bit. They then motored alongside us for two to four hours until dark to make sure we would be all right.
"The pirates were well organized and well armed. There were at least four boats involved. They had set up a picket line out from the Yemen coast, probably for at least 50-75 miles, so if you transited the area during the day they wouldn't miss you. The two boats that attacked us appeared to have come from the south.
There has been speculation in the past that this ongoing piracy problem off the Yemen coast was being carried out by Somali pirates. Given the number, type of boats involved, and the direction the spotter boats came from, this does not appear to be correct in this case. The pirate problem has been getting worse and pirate attacks have been getting deadly. One could only expect that the Yemen government would take more direct action. At the very least, allow yachts to group in Salalah, Oman, and at some point on the northwest Yemen coast to request an escort.
"We - Rod, Becky, and Jamee - just wanted to let you know that we are all fine, although a little traumatized. It's just a reminder that the cruising life is a thrill a minute! We have some damage to the boat from bullets, but nothing that can't be repaired."
We regret we don't have more information - full names of all the crews, the boat types, and boat hailing ports - on Madhi and Gandalf.
This area has always been active with pirates, but the level and sophistication of the activity seems to have picked up dramatically. We received another email which reported that cruising boats were transiting the area in convoys of six or more boats for safety, but even that wasn't enough. Heavily armed pirates have apparently been weeding out one boat at a time and taking their money and electronics. Be aware, however, our information is very, very sketchy, so we have no idea about the true extent of it. We'll try to find out more.
armymom1228
04-13-2009, 16:08
Another update here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514735,00.html). It seems that US prosecutors can bring charges against him in a US court because it was was a US flagged ship with US citizens aboard. The confusion appears to be what to do with pirates who are captured under different circumstances.
Also of note, this is apparently the first case of piracy against a US flagged vessel in hundreds of years.
SFC W
Yep tis a Documented Vessel...oh that pirate, is so totally screwed...I heard this morning that he is 'too young to prosecute'. Whatever that means. :confused:
go here and type in Maersk. You get 18 names.. the first on is the Alabama
home ported out of Norfolk.
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html
A
Utah Bob
04-13-2009, 16:53
Yep tis a Documented Vessel...oh that pirate, is so totally screwed...I heard this morning that he is 'too young to prosecute'. Whatever that means. :confused:
go here and type in Maersk. You get 18 names.. the first on is the Alabama
home ported out of Norfolk.
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGuard/VesselByName.html
A
It means that if prosecuted by the US he would likely be charged only as a juvenile. That's why they're considering turning him over to Kenya.
It means that if prosecuted by the US he would likely be charged only as a juvenile. That's why they're considering turning him over to Kenya.
Indeed. Yesterday, Fox News reported that he was 16 years old.
What a waste.
Holly
According to Jeff Emanuel who is the same embedded reporter who wrote the great piece about the death of retired SF Joe Morley’s son posted by TR in the following thread http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15610&highlight=Josh+Morley
he has reported that the Obama administration had nothing to do with the action taken by the military to free the American Captain. The following is an excerpt from his article. The entire article is here: http://jeffemanuel.net/weblog/2009/04/12/godspeed-to-capt-philips-and-the-nswc-operators-who-freed-him/
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin today’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.
What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four-day-and-counting standoff between a rag-tag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
Instead of taking direct, decisive action against the rag-tag group of gunmen (such as outlined here), though, the Obama administration dilly-dallied, dawdled, and eschewed any decisive action whatsoever in hopes that the situation would somehow resolve itself without violence, sending a clear message to all who would threaten U.S. interests abroad that the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has no idea how to respond to such situations, and no real willingness to use military force to resolve them. Any who think they weren’t watching every minute of this are guilty — at best — of greatly underestimating our enemies.
Like the crew of the Alabama, which took swift and decisive action to take back their own ship rather than wait for help from Washington that they knew could not be counted on, Captain Philips took matters into his own hands for the second time in three days this afternoon, leaping into the water to create a diversion and to allow the NSWC team to eliminate his captors. The result, of course, was the best that could possibly be expected: three pirates dead, the captain unharmed, and a fourth Somali man in custody.
It means that if prosecuted by the US he would likely be charged only as a juvenile. That's why they're considering turning him over to Kenya.
That is totally correct. Just as in many situations in the US they can make a determination to try the young Pirate as an Adult. It all depends on a AUSA and a Federal Judge.
It will be much easier to give him to Kenya from the political point of view.
Puertoland
04-14-2009, 10:06
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy
It would appear more ships were taken, apparently four more. And the Pirates had sworn to retaliate for their fallen comrades thanks to French and US forces.
Guess they didn't learn their lesson the first time.
armymom1228
04-14-2009, 10:31
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy
It would appear more ships were taken, apparently four more. And the Pirates had sworn to retaliate for their fallen comrades thanks to French and US forces.
Guess they didn't learn their lesson the first time.
I What lesson was that?
You are not dealing with a country or culture that values life.
There are more jelly beans in that bag, a few falling out of the bag, more or less,
in the scheme of things. Makes no difference in thier world.
First to defeat a culture like that, one has to fully understand and appreciate the country and culture they are dealing with. It appears that no one is willing to do that and to take them on. There must be a valid reason why, or is there?
This, IMHO, is worth repeating...
According to Jeff Emanuel:
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin today’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.
What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four-day-and-counting standoff between a rag-tag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
Instead of taking direct, decisive action against the rag-tag group of gunmen (such as outlined here), though, the Obama administration dilly-dallied, dawdled, and eschewed any decisive action whatsoever in hopes that the situation would somehow resolve itself without violence, sending a clear message to all who would threaten U.S. interests abroad that the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has no idea how to respond to such situations, and no real willingness to use military force to resolve them. Any who think they weren’t watching every minute of this are guilty — at best — of greatly underestimating our enemies.
Like the crew of the Alabama, which took swift and decisive action to take back their own ship rather than wait for help from Washington that they knew could not be counted on, Captain Philips took matters into his own hands for the second time in three days this afternoon, leaping into the water to create a diversion and to allow the NSWC team to eliminate his captors.
The result, of course, was the best that could possibly be expected: three pirates dead, the captain unharmed, and a fourth Somali man in custody.
Holly--->Trying to climb in and swim with my Cheerios.:rolleyes:
Puertoland
04-14-2009, 11:06
I What lesson was that?
You are not dealing with a country or culture that values life.
There are more jelly beans in that bag, a few falling out more or less,
in the scheme of things. Makes no difference in thier world.
First to defeat a culture like that, one has to fully understand and appreciate the country and culture they are dealing with. It appears that no one is willing to do that and to take them on. There must be a valid reason why, or is there?
Ma'am I believe having the sand to say there will be no negotiating with terrorists, and sticking to that is what will be required.
Taking an American hostage would sign you a death warrant, and in ways you wouldn't want to go, no matter how ready to die you are.
But being held back by the whole process of understanding the pirate scum, or trying to figure out a peaceful resolution where everyone wins would be the same as bringing extra food to school for the bully who takes your lunch. Sadly, I cannot say that with our current leadership, that that is not exactly what we will be doing.
As for their culture, Somalia is one of those countries that is 99.99 percent muslim. They war with each other, horrible work ethic, many are hungry. The only thing sacred is their religion. They attack those who offer them aid, so kindness hasn't been working out too well for everybody. I believe with proper motivation, and freedom to do what is necessary would allow us to cripple this piracy problem.
The mission, as directed by the administration, was the SAFE recovery of Capt Phillips. Every eyewitness account disagrees with Mr. Emanuel's scenario of events -- Capt Phillips was bound and tied when rescued. All involved, including the administration, deserve a "well done!"
[QUOTE=dennisw;259468]According to Jeff Emanuel...
he has reported that the Obama administration had nothing to do with the action taken by the military to free the American Captain. The following is an excerpt from his article. The entire article is here: http://jeffemanuel.net/weblog/2009/04/12/godspeed-to-capt-philips-and-the-nswc-operators-who-freed-him/
The Reaper
04-14-2009, 11:50
The mission, as directed by the administration, was the SAFE recovery of Capt Phillips. Every eyewitness account disagrees with Mr. Emanuel's scenario of events -- Capt Phillips was bound and tied when rescued. All involved, including the administration, deserve a "well done!"
According to Jeff Emanuel...
he has reported that the Obama administration had nothing to do with the action taken by the military to free the American Captain. The following is an excerpt from his article. The entire article is here: http://jeffemanuel.net/weblog/2009/04/12/godspeed-to-capt-philips-and-the-nswc-operators-who-freed-him/
Hey, Dai Uy, I think you missed a step.
Please read the board rules and stickies, and introduce yourself in the proper place as requested of all new members.
Thanks.
TR
armymom1228
04-14-2009, 12:27
Ma'am I believe having the sand to say there will be no negotiating with terrorists, and sticking to that is what will be required.
Taking an American hostage would sign you a death warrant, and in ways you wouldn't want to go, no matter how ready to die you are.
So it is okay to merely harass and repeatedly rob, over a number of years peaceful American yachts on the high seas without retaliation?
But being held back by the whole process of understanding the pirate scum, or trying to figure out a peaceful resolution where everyone wins would be the same as bringing extra food to school for the bully who takes your lunch. Sadly, I cannot say that with our current leadership, that that is not exactly what we will be doing.
I was refering to finding a solution that makes them stop. In a manner that will make certain that they wil find other interests. You might misunderstand me.. my preference is to drop a couple of 500lb bombs on a base and then pointed say... "listen up dudes, there are more where that came from, now stop it, now" (its a mom thing ya know:))
As for their culture, Somalia is one of those countries that is 99.99 percent muslim. They war with each other, horrible work ethic, many are hungry. The only thing sacred is their religion. They attack those who offer them aid, so kindness hasn't been working out too well for everybody. I believe with proper motivation, and freedom to do what is necessary would allow us to cripple this piracy problem.
My personal opinion is, that is one country that is a waste of genetic material.. to remove it from the gene pool is not such a bad thing.. I don't think thier religoin plays into it.. its the culture.. and I clearly remember that one of thier warlords is/was an American citizen and a Marine.. go figger..
While we can do what is necessary. We, the US, has to deal with the larger world opinion. At the moment, we are getting cooperation on a larger and to be honest, more important issue. We could lose that cooperation in an eyeblink..
please to note... the US did nothing when private american yachts have been boarded and robbed... I am rather cynical on this particular issue. Read my post on the Mahdi and its owner. No US replies to repeated hails of 'mayday'. I have close freinds sitting in Phuket about to make that run across the Indian Ocean to the Red Sea to the Med. It is of huge importance to me.
If I were in control...bomb the country off the map and be done with it.. international opinion be damned.. but I am not in control.. :D
If I were in control...bomb the country off the map and be done with it...international opinion be damned...but I am not in control.
Wow! I knew I shoulda voted for the Hildebeast! :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Puertoland
04-14-2009, 13:21
So it is okay to merely harass and repeatedly rob, over a number of years peaceful American yachts on the high seas without retaliation?
Oh, never Ma'am, I apologize if I made it sound that way. My rather long winded post agreed with something having to be done to end all this.
If I were in control...bomb the country off the map and be done with it.. international opinion be damned.. but I am not in control.. :D
Well, there's an effective solution :)
don't think thier religoin plays into it.. its the culture.. and I clearly remember that one of thier warlords is/was an American citizen and a Marine.. go figger..
I think once the numbers are that high, Islam becomes the culture. And Somalia, like Yemen, and Mauritania are good examples of how that works out.
Anyway with all that being said, if everyone in America shared your mindset, there would be a lot less terrorism in the world ;)
feels good to have this end well
armymom1228
04-14-2009, 15:29
Anyway with all that being said, if everyone in America shared your mindset, there would be a lot less terrorism in the world ;)
Applying my rules on child rearing to this situation.. When my two youngest hit 12 and 13 I got tired of deciding what punishments to give that pair of heathens. So I made them decide each others punishments. It taught them how to negotiate, diplomacy and what the true definition of payback was.
So we capture pirates and have them decide each others fate.. we are NOT killing them.. they are sentencing themselves.. well it worked with my teens.. they often say they barely survived thier teen yrs with thier inventive mom..
Did I mention the night HE punished her by making her sleep in the tool shed?
She snuck into the house and changed the passworld to his computer to "T is a dork" and he had to type that to get in... I nearly peed myself laughing.
Piracy is an issue, not just in the Western Indian Ocean.. its a lot of other places to. It is as time old as the ladies who stand on the corner, "hey soldier ruv you rong time, 2 dollah, rong time" :D
There is that Woody Guthrie song that says, "some rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen"
Piracy, in my book is a very subjective word.. with that I am going to sit right here on this comfy QP couch cuddling Sailor Jerry on the rocks and veg out.. fair winds!!
It appears that no one is willing to do that and to take them on. There must be a valid reason why, or is there?
People still remember what happened in Somalia with Operation Restore Hope.
At least the Obama Administration does.
They don't want a stain that will turn the media against them.
An operation in that area initiated by POTUS that results in dead Americans will do that.
I foresee an increased naval presence in the area.
At most there will be missile strikes, but no significant operations.
Of course that will change if another American crew is taken hostage.
Public outcry will demand something more.
The next time Americans are taken I don't see it ending as well as it did this time.
Utah Bob
04-14-2009, 17:33
According to Jeff Emanuel who is the same embedded reporter who wrote the great piece about the death of retired SF Joe Morley’s son posted by TR in the following thread http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15610&highlight=Josh+Morley
he has reported that the Obama administration had nothing to do with the action taken by the military to free the American Captain. The following is an excerpt from his article. The entire article is here: http://jeffemanuel.net/weblog/2009/04/12/godspeed-to-capt-philips-and-the-nswc-operators-who-freed-him/
What swift decisive action would he have had them take? Assaulting the covered lifeboat while the pirates were still fresh and full of fight? Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead?
Bullshit. It was handled very well.
armymom1228
04-14-2009, 17:47
Found this URL on another board. Thanks Gypsy..
Note: As I keep saying... Western Indian Ocean.
Indonesia, Straits of Malacca
Carribean.. coast of Venezuela.. navy there trys but not too hard..
http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=219
There was some problems on the Rio Dulce (honduras) this past summer.. but some rough justice seemed to take care of the problem. Woman that headed up the ring was found dead a few days after an American was killed on his own boat anchored out in the River from the Marinas..
I don't think the issue is whether or not the military handled the incident well or not. They did an excellent job. The threshold issue is whether the White House gave them definitive and clear instructions. The White House gave vague instructions which is the same as no instructions at all. The White House created a vague environment where if the rescue had turned out badly, they could wash the hands of the way it was handled. It turns out well, and they are instantly patting themselves on the back.
If the captain life is in immiment danger? He was held captive at gunpoint. How more dangerous could it be. Why not give the commander a definitive order. As soon as you get a shot, take them out. Instead, the White House played it so as to allow themselves an out. That's not leadership; that's politics.
The Reaper
04-14-2009, 21:23
I don't think the issue is whether or not the military handled the incident well or not. They did an excellent job. The threshold issue is whether the White House gave them definitive and clear instructions. The White House gave vague instructions which is the same as no instructions at all. The White House created a vague environment where if the rescue had turned out badly, they could wash the hands of the way it was handled. It turns out well, and they are instantly patting themselves on the back.
If the captain life is in immiment danger? He was held captive at gunpoint. How more dangerous could it be. Why not give the commander a definitive order. As soon as you get a shot, take them out. Instead, the White House played it so as to allow themselves an out. That's not leadership; that's politics.
Precisely my thoughts.
No comment from the POTUS till the action was over. If it goes badly, he blames the pirates/military/etc. If it succeeds, it was his doing and he takes full credit.
The captain had weapons pointed at him frequently since the beginning of this charade. He was even fired at the first time he jumped overboard. Someone much lower made the decision to finally take the shots and live with the consequences.
I wasn't present and did not see the orders or make the call. From my perspective, it sounds like the POTUS issued generic orders with plausible deniability, and put the skipper of the naval vessel and the SEALs' asses on the line for making the call.
Since it went well, the POTUS claimed that he had directed it, and gave credit to the Navy to appear magnanimous. That was all he needed to do, the media lapped it up and spun it for him.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
greenberetTFS
04-15-2009, 06:03
I don't think the issue is whether or not the military handled the incident well or not. They did an excellent job. The threshold issue is whether the White House gave them definitive and clear instructions. The White House gave vague instructions which is the same as no instructions at all. The White House created a vague environment where if the rescue had turned out badly, they could wash the hands of the way it was handled. It turns out well, and they are instantly patting themselves on the back.
If the captain life is in immiment danger? He was held captive at gunpoint. How more dangerous could it be. Why not give the commander a definitive order. As soon as you get a shot, take them out. Instead, the White House played it so as to allow themselves an out. That's not leadership; that's politics.
dennisw,
I agree completely...POTUS was covering his ass........:mad:
GB TFS :munchin
uboat509
04-15-2009, 07:44
Andrew Exum and Robert Kaplan on Charlie Rose here (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2009/04/a-conversation-about-somali-pi/).
SFC W
Sweetbriar
04-15-2009, 09:44
The Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.pirates14apr14,0,3966787.story) has some good clarifying reporting.
Sorry but I disagree. Micro-management has been one of our biggest complaints. The POTUS properly delegated authority for the commander on the scene to take appropriate action as he saw fit.
I don't know about you but I never needed or wanted no president telling me how to conduct a mission. Give me the mission and authority to carry it out.
LBJ micro-managed a war and look where it got us.
Give credit where credit is due. I'm sure we can find plenty to bitch about in the future.:mad:
The Reaper
04-15-2009, 17:40
Let's see what he does when one goes bad.
TR
Utah Bob
04-15-2009, 18:35
Let's see what he does when one goes bad.
TR
Yup. That'll be the real test. Easy to pass out kudos when things go right. Not so easy to accept responsibility when things don't.
Let's see what he does when one goes bad.
TR
Fair enough!!
I have found that AARs are much better after the action.
Dozer523
04-15-2009, 20:06
The Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.pirates14apr14,0,3966787.story) has some good clarifying reporting. Oh print t he damn thing.:D
WASHINGTON - Before ending a pirate standoff with three fatally precise shots, Navy SEAL snipers had passed on multiple opportunities to fire.
They had moved into position after the White House expanded the authority it had given the world's most powerful navy against a rag-tag foe holding an American sea captain hostage on a lifeboat.
They kept their scopes trained on their Somali targets as prospects for a peaceful resolution seemed to shrivel. Most of all, they waited as a series of seemingly insignificant moves - from extending the pirates a rope for a tow to bringing an injured brigand onboard -improved the sharpshooters' odds of success.
"I want to be very clear that we are resolved to halt the rise of piracy in that region," Obama said Monday. "We have to continue to be prepared to confront them when they arise. And we have to ensure that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes."
Obama was briefed on the crisis at least 18 times, including a National Security Council session on "hostage contingencies" just hours before the snipers fired their shots. But the crisis seems to have crystallized for the administration on Friday, after the White House got word that Capt. Richard Phillips had tried to escape from his captors. Senior National Security Council officials met in the White House situation room to draft a series of options to deliver to Obama. Later that night, Obama appears to have issued his first order authorizing the use of lethal force. The next morning, that authority to use lethal force was expanded and SEALs arrived on the USS Bainbridge.
A military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the sniper team had multiple opportunities to shoot but held off, not believing that Phillips was in imminent danger.The military thought it had a crucial breakthrough Sunday morning. The youngest pirate, who had been injured, asked the SEALs if he could come aboard the Bainbridge to make a phone call.As Sunday dragged on, the seas grew rougher, and Navy officers offered to tow the lifeboat behind the Bainbridge, telling the pirates that they would move them to calmer waters. Once the lifeboat was tethered to the destroyer, military officials said, the pirates grew more desperate, feeling they had lost control of both their boat and the situation. Also, the pirates were probably suffering from withdrawal from khat, a narcotic leaf chewed by many Somali men, according to a senior military official. Aboard the hot and cramped lifeboat, tensions escalated. Watching from the Bainbridge, the sniper team observed an apparent argument between Phillips and one of the pirates.
The SEAL team observed two of the pirates move away from Phillips and stick their heads out from a hatch. The third pirate raised his weapon at Phillips' back. Convinced that Phillips was about to be shot, the SEAL commander gave the order to fire.
"If the goal was just to kill these guys, there were opportunities where we could have shot them," said a senior military official. "This was not the outcome we wanted. We wanted those three guys to give themselves up."
A Pentagon spokesman said the shooting could discourage future attacks on commercial ships sailing the Indian Ocean. Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters Monday that some penalties taken against pirates before Sunday's rescue had failed to deter lawlessness on the high seas. The Associated Press contributed to this article.
The President was clearly out of the loop!:rolleyes:
The Reaper
04-15-2009, 20:18
"If the goal was just to kill these guys, there were opportunities where we could have shot them," said a senior military official. "This was not the outcome we wanted. We wanted those three guys to give themselves up."
Why? They were committing a felony, and threatening the life of an American who they had kidnapped.
Do we have lawyers who need the work? Is the ACLU not busy enough with Gitmo?
TR
Utah Bob
04-15-2009, 20:47
The "senior military official" sounds like a JAG officer.
BigJimCalhoun
04-15-2009, 20:57
Why? They were committing a felony, and threatening the life of an American who they had kidnapped.
TR
In Colorado a citizen can use deadly force to prevent kidnapping.
reference: http://dcsheriff.net/documents/ccw_info_pack.pdf
If I can do it, the highly-trained military personnel who are far more qualified then myself should be able to.
There was an article on FoxNews this AM which I cannot find now. They interviewed some captain from some International Maritine group based in the US who believes that the crews should not attempt to defend themselves or the pirates might use more violence. That is like telling a woman who is being raped to not fight him as he might kill you, which often does happen anyway
edit: here it is http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,515986,00.html
I need to see if I cann find the quote, but from what I understand Chris MAtthews went on his show last night and said the SEALS "Just got lucky, with those three shots".
Yeah, that's right, three simultaneous shots, on rough seas, to the heads of three individuals partially obscurred by the life boat. It was pure luck.:rolleyes:
Where do these guys come up with this crap?????:confused:
The Reaper
04-16-2009, 11:15
I need to see if I cann find the quote, but from what I understand Chris MAtthews went on his show last night and said the SEALS "Just got lucky, with those three shots".
Yeah, that's right, three simultaneous shots, on rough seas, to the heads of three individuals partially obscurred by the life boat. It was pure luck.:rolleyes:
Where do these guys come up with this crap?????:confused:
Maybe he and two of his liberal buddies would like to challenge them to repeat the feat?
TR
Maybe he and two of his liberal buddies would like to challenge them to repeat the feat?
TR
They can't, guns are bad, therefore he and his friends more than likely don't own one. Because if they did, then they would be one of those right wing extremists everyone in DHS and the MSM seem to be talking about.
The Reaper
04-16-2009, 11:38
They can't, guns are bad, therefore he and his friends more than likely don't own one. Because if they did, then they would be one of those right wing extremists everyone in DHS and the MSM seem to be talking about.
Wrong role for Matthews and friends.
I meant a challenge to the SEALs to hit the three of them in the heads while in a boat at the same range and conditions.
TR
Wrong role for Matthews and friends.
I meant a challenge to the SEALs to hit the three of them in the heads while in a boat at the same range and conditions.
TR
Much better idea!!!!
ZonieDiver
04-16-2009, 12:03
I need to see if I cann find the quote, but from what I understand Chris MAtthews went on his show last night and said the SEALS "Just got lucky, with those three shots".
Yeah, that's right, three simultaneous shots, on rough seas, to the heads of three individuals partially obscurred by the life boat. It was pure luck.:rolleyes:
Where do these guys come up with this crap?????:confused:
I couldn't find the "intro" where he might have been more direct with his "luck" BS, but he does talk about it in this clip. He first mentions it at about 1:30 into the clip. He is somewhat contradicted by NBC "analyst" Chuck Todd about 30 seconds later.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#30196813
Wrong role for Matthews and friends.
I meant a challenge to the SEALs to hit the three of them in the heads while in a boat at the same range and conditions.
TR
...not a fair comparison. The expanded heads (and egos) of the left wing media would be a far easier shot than the headshots of the Pirate nutjobs:D
LTC Bob chimes in on the debate...a pretty good review of the complex parameters we, as a nation amongst world nations, must deal with in determining a course of action with such matters. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Piracy: The Military Options
The Nation, 16 Apr 2009
Name: LTC Bob
Hometown: Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
Hello Altercators, sorry for the radio silence. I've been a bit busy of late. I do, some may have heard, have a day job. Sometimes this interferes.
So, anyway, let us talk about pirates, and piracy and viable options. But first, and most importantly, let us consider the ways to think about the problem. At least, from a military perspective. What follows is a brief primer on military thought (yea, yea, "an oxymoron", I get it, LOL, etc) that may help each of you form your own opinions about the various options offered by pundits left, right, center, and everything in between. My cutting caveat is that the overwhelming (by which I mean, "every single one I've seen") majority of said commentators on "what we should do" has never actually studied military theory, served aboard a ship, or considered the practicalities involved in light of, well, reality.
So, strap on your thinking caps and follow me.
For starters, there are four levels of war. These levels are: Tactical, Operational, Strategic, Political. That's easy, right? Don't worry, it gets more complex in a second.
Now the tactical level is one man vs. one man, or 10,000 vs. 10,000, or thirty ships vs thirty ships, whatever. It is the level of short term engagements. Things that last a pico-second, or an hour, or a week. We call events that occur at this level "skirmishes" or "battles." This is the level of "tactics."
The next level, Operational, is where you plan to string together a series of battles in pursuit of your strategic objective. This is the level where you see whole Fleets, and Corps (in the Army). Events at the Operational level last months. You use the operational level to achieve your Strategic objectives. (See how this builds?)
At the Strategic level you are making deliberate choices about how you, as a nation, want to fight. There are, really, only a couple of choices. In essence there are really only three (with a potential fourth) military strategies: Annihilation, Attrition, and Exhaustion (the fourth might be "Fabian," but let's not go there for the moment, ok?) So, well, let's define those, ok? (And remember, you do not need to agree with the use of force to read this. I'm only giving you the intellectual tools to understand and critically analyze the use of force.) Ok, so, the three major military strategies might be defined like this:
Strategy of Exhaustion - A strategy which seeks the gradual erosion of an enemy nation's will or means to resist.
Strategy of Attrition - A strategy which seeks the gradual erosion of the combat power of the enemy's armed forces.
Strategy of Annihilation - A strategy which seeks the immediate destruction of the combat power of the enemy's armed forces. OK, so now you got that. Now let's look at what some people have been saying.
Essentially, those people who have been writing op-eds about shooting pirates on sight and coastal raiding, are really only writing about tactical responses. And that's fine. But tactics don't win wars most of the time. What I am discerning in the different approaches advocated here and in various op-eds all over is not really a disagreement that something must be done, but a tendency to examine the issue from different levels of war. Those folks who talk about shooting don't link that idea, AS IT SHOULD BE LINKED, to an overarching understanding of conflict at the strategic level.
(Yes, I know, it's not a "war" per se, but you get the gist. Follow me on this. So like I said, shooting individual pirates/pirate boats/villages is Tactical. If one follows their logic they appear to believe that if we shoot enough of the pirates, the effect will be strategic. But they don't say that, usually because they don't know what they're talking about. But essentially what they are advocating is a strategy of attrition. (Remember, that one is defined as: "A strategy which seeks the gradual erosion of the combat power of the enemy's armed forces.") This, by the way, is not necessarily wrong. It's just that most commentators don't link the strategic plan to their emotional tactical suggestion.
Other solutions, such as a convoy system through the affected areas are more akin to an Operational Level approach, but these are not solutions per se, they are responses to mitigate. They are not strategies for a long term solution, they are ways to transfer the cost that commercial shipping companies (read: Big International Business) are now bearing to the taxpayers of the countries that can afford navies. Yes, I know, it's a wee bit ironic that many of those on the political left are advocating a course of action which has, as it's primary beneficiary, large global corporations. But again, these folks usually haven't had any education in theories of war and conflict at the highest levels, so they don't understand who the beneficiaries really are.
Those in the final category, the people who focus on changing the conditions ashore, particularly in Somalia, are looking at the issue from a Strategic level from the git-go, but in their case they're often hazy on the tactics. In most cases the suggestions I've seen would seem to fit under the concept of a strategy of Exhaustion. (Again, remember, that one is defined as: "A strategy which seeks the gradual erosion of an enemy nation's will or means to resist.") Personally, I think it's pure idiocy to advocate a strategy without understanding the costs, in real military terms, what it will take to implement that strategy. But more on that in a moment. A friend asked me a really salient question on this issue. He wrote, "In a failed state, such as Somalia, is there not some point where tactical, operational, and strategic levels become one? After all, except for a "government" that reportedly controls a few blocks in the capitol, the folks in charge are warlords and criminal organizations."
So, well, in examining this issue I first focused on the issue of warlords and criminal organizations, and cast about for a stateless parallel in history. The closest I could come was the continent of North America, from roughly the 1650s-1890, and the perpetual war waged against literally hundreds of different tribes, which lasted roughly 250 years. That is my intellectual baseline here, the worst case scenario which I hope we can avoid. Any de facto conflict/war which lasts 250 years is not a "success" in anyone's book.
(Cont'd) http://www.thenation.com/blogs/altercation/427674/piracy_the_military_options?rel=hpbox
burned_pretzel
04-17-2009, 07:54
Precisely my thoughts.
No comment from the POTUS till the action was over. If it goes badly, he blames the pirates/military/etc. If it succeeds, it was his doing and he takes full credit.
The captain had weapons pointed at him frequently since the beginning of this charade. He was even fired at the first time he jumped overboard. Someone much lower made the decision to finally take the shots and live with the consequences.
I wasn't present and did not see the orders or make the call. From my perspective, it sounds like the POTUS issued generic orders with plausible deniability, and put the skipper of the naval vessel and the SEALs' asses on the line for making the call.
Since it went well, the POTUS claimed that he had directed it, and gave credit to the Navy to appear magnanimous. That was all he needed to do, the media lapped it up and spun it for him.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Exactly. Wait until there's a happy ending before saying anything.:mad:
What I find interesting in all this is the response of the liberals toward the President. I had a liberal relative over here for Easter and I told her that the pirates were killed or captured and the captain freed. She kept saying (this is an exact quote) "Thank God we finally have a President who's not afraid to take action".
So for 8 years she's been whining about how Bush took action against Al Qaeda (even after 9/11 she didn't want to go after them) and Iraq, but when a liberal President "takes action", it's okay with her? If this had happened last year and Bush made the call to take them out, would she have been praising him this way? Doubtful.
Remember that not responding in an overt, political way and pandering to the MSM's 24/7 diarrheal opinion offerings while quietly taking action is also a response, a "Talk to the hand" sort of message that your actions do not - in the greater scheme of things - amount to as much as you'd like us to believe and we're not going to play your game.
Personally, I don't think we did too badly with this one - let's see how it goes with others. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
....LTC Bob chimes in on the debate...a pretty good review of the complex parameters we, as a nation amongst world nations,....
Interesting but.....
He covers a lot of ground with a lot of words but the pirates have done it because, yes, they are in a "failed state" but most of all because it paid off and was easy money for the area.
Remember the stories from last year where it was almost like a party for the captives? They were treated as guests while the ransom was being arranged.
The world, say UN, could not get together on a solution and the pirate problem got worse and more and more from the coast of Somolia got into the act.
He says the "tactical" solution will not work. If the UN got together, said it would not put up with pirates snagging ships, put out the word it was going to sink any fishing ship in the area with more guns than nets letting the crew swim home, and then started sinking boats I think the pirates will quickly find another line of work.
Once again the UN shows itself as a paper tiger doing the bidding of special groups with their own agenda.
Just my opinion, of course.
Pete
Exactly. Wait until there's a happy ending before saying anything.:mad:
Is it better to tell the whole wide world and media what we are going to do in advance? I think not. There are too many dead Americans because of the lack of Security. I was sick and tired of Bush Bashers but it appears that the only thing that has changed is the party and name of the President.
The POTUS is way off base on many things but I think this was a good response and good operation.
The Reaper
04-17-2009, 08:24
Is it better to tell the whole wide world and media what we are going to do in advance? I think not. There are too many dead Americans because of the lack of Security. I was sick and tired of Bush Bashers but it appears that the only thing that has changed is the party and name of the President.
So, how do you feel about the administration's release of the documents detailing our interrogation techniques and limits?:munchin
TR
So, how do you feel about the administration's release of the documents detailing our interrogation techniques and limits?:munchin
TR
I haven't seen them. I appreciate him not prosecuting CIA agents. But that's another page. I think the Maresk Alabama was a good operation.
Nobody can be wrong all of the time, they have to screw up and get one right once ihn a while.
It's a good thing y'all aren't gradeing tests. You would mark every question wrong without even reading the answers.:mad:
...It's a good thing y'all aren't gradeing tests. You would mark every question wrong without even reading the answers.:mad:
As opposed to giving everybody 100%s without checking their answers?
Most of use read fairly well.
burned_pretzel
04-17-2009, 08:46
Is it better to tell the whole wide world and media what we are going to do in advance? I think not. There are too many dead Americans because of the lack of Security. I was sick and tired of Bush Bashers but it appears that the only thing that has changed is the party and name of the President.
The POTUS is way off base on many things but I think this was a good response and good operation.
While I certainly don't want security breached, I find it interesting that he said nothing at all for a week. A politician not talking for a week? Unheard of!;)
Obviously, he shouldn't give specifics on what we want to do, but he didn't say anything at all. I would have suspected something like "We will try to deal with the situation as safely as possible to get the captain back" or something similar to that.
It's just a suspicion I have. If it went badly, the fact that he said nothing would be an easy way to lay the blame on someone else, and I think he would have.
I agree with you that it was a good tactical move, both militarily (OPSEC) and politically (not my fault!). I just think it was more of a political thing, and that angers me a little. :)
earlgreyt
04-17-2009, 08:49
I wonder if anyone in today's Navy knows what a Q ship is? It would seem to be the perfect solution to this low tech bunch of thugs.
The Reaper
04-17-2009, 08:49
I haven't seen them.
You might want to take a look at that issue, before handing out awards to the Administration.
I appreciate him not prosecuting CIA agents. But that's another page. I think the Maresk Alabama was a good operation.
Concur on both counts, but the good work by the SEALs hardly reflects competency by the Administration, unless you are going to blame the POTUS as well when one goes wrong.
It's a good thing y'all aren't gradeing tests. You would mark every question wrong without even reading the answers.:mad:
I am not exactly sure what that means. I apologize if it makes you angry when we do not agree with you on everything.
I wonder if anyone in today's Navy knows what a Q ship is? It would seem to be the perfect solution to this low tech bunch of thugs.
Already recommended earlier in the thread and elsewhere here.
TR
TrapLine
04-17-2009, 09:17
Oh print t he damn thing.:D
WASHINGTON - Also, the pirates were probably suffering from withdrawal from khat, a narcotic leaf chewed by many Somali men, according to a senior military official. Aboard the hot and cramped lifeboat, tensions escalated.
The Associated Press contributed to this article.
Here in Mogad...I mean Minneapolis my wife, who is an ICU R.N., has treated Somalis who are going through khat withdrawals. I have been told it can get pretty ugly, but that is ok because I am sure they are all fully insured and Joe Taxpayer is not footing the bill. Maybe the captured pirate can be brought here for treatment after he is released by a liberal court because the SEALs did not marandize him:rolleyes:. Then he could teach piracy 101 to the young Somalis here so they would have a heads up before they are recruited back "home" to learn more about their "culture." Sorry for the rant, I guess all the Arabic signs in the public library have confused me.
Utah Bob
04-17-2009, 09:21
I wonder if anyone in today's Navy knows what a Q ship is? It would seem to be the perfect solution to this low tech bunch of thugs.
Actually, I expect someone does.
The Navy is very big on tradition and history.
And painting.:D
I always try to wait for the ending before critiquing. If the POTUS screws up I speak out there also. I think I mentioned that there is plenty to bitch about on the economic front.
Not only did he say he won't prosecute interrogators but the Dept of Justice says it will defend them if someone else tries to prosecute. What they did was legal at the time they did it and the POTUS is standing by that.
I doubt this makes many extreme liberals happy.:lifter
BTW we IMO need to change the names of our parties to Liberals, Conservative, Labor and perhaps Moderates like other countries do.
This is real as far as I know:
[]Sent: 4/15/2009 3:00:50 A.M. SE Asia Standard Time
Subj: FW: Action on the maersk alabama
This is an email from one of the Engineers on the Maersk Alabama shortly after everything went down. The person referred to as Mike is the Chief Engineer.
Pretty interesting.
M/Vis CSI Somalia.
I wanted to let you know some of the lessons we learned so you guys can better prepare yourselves for something similar. The only guys actually captured by the pirates were on the bridge: Capt, 3/M, and 2 AB's.
I don't really know why they stayed on the bridge until the pirates got up there. Then they had keys to everything and were able to unlock everyone's rooms. The pirates got up to the bridge very quickly once they were onboard. We had a locked cage door over the ladder well from main deck, but it only took a second for them to shoot it off.They then got to the bridge up the outside ladders. By that time we had taken control of the engine and steering down below. Mike stayed in the ECR and the C/M was out on deck tracking the pirates' movement. We kept swinging the rudder side to side.The pirates' boat capsized, though I'm not sure exactly when or what caused it. After about 20 minutes the engine was killed, I don't know by whom. At that point I shut off the air bottles and Mike killed power. He was also able to get outside and trip the fuel shutoff for the EDG.
I think this was critical.The pirates were very reluctant to go into the dark.We will be looking at a way to shut off the EDG from the ECR in the future. All the crew had been mustered and secured in the steering gear. Our pirates didn't have any grenades, so they would have never been able to break in there. The previous day we had welded a padeye on the inside of the hatch to the fantail so it was secured from the inside. The only problem with the steering gear was the heat and the shortage of water.In the future we will store food and water in various spots for emergency usage.
I think we will also run a fresh water line into the steering gear. We were able to make a run from the steering gear to the E/R water fountain and fill up some empty oil sample bottles we had back there. The C/M was also able to get some fruit and sodas from the galley and drop them down the line standpipe. The pirates sent the 3/M unescorted to go look for crewmembers, so he was able to get away. One of the pirates then went with an AB down to the E/R to look for people.Mike was able to jump him in the dark and we took him prisoner in the steering gear. No one else came down into the E/R. As the day went on the pirates became desperate to get out of there.There boat was sunk, and they couldn't get our ship moving.
The Captain talked them into taking the MOB boat. The three remaining pirates went down in the MOB boat with Phillips. We were then able to negotiate with them over the radio. We dropped some food, water and diesel to them. We started getting the plant back on line. Unfortunately, the MOB boat wouldn't start. A couple of guys got in the
lifeboat and dropped it. They motored over and traded the lifeboat for the MOB boat.We were supposed to exchange their guy for the Captain, but they ended up keeping him.They motored off in the lifeboat. They had no way of getting back aboard, so we followed them. The Navy showed up a few hours later. We stayed close by for some time, but then the Navy asked us to head out. I heard that several other pirate vessels were heading our way and the Navy wanted us out of the way. That's about it. I'll give you all the details some other time.
Just to reiterate the most important points: Have a well fortified location with food and water supply. Kill all the lights. Leave the alarms going, the noise helped cover our movements through the house. Flashlights and radios are very handy, as well as the sound-powered phone.
Anyway,it was a pretty stressful situation.I have to say I am impressed with how the entire crew responded. We didn't have anybody who wanted to give up. I'm pretty confident that Phillips will end up ok.They have to know that if they kill him they'll be done. I assume the company will be forced into taking some kind of action to assure our security from now on.
end[/
On Fox news Live just now;
The Captin just said, repeatedly, "I am not the hero. The military is the hero! Thank Them, when you see Them!
Indeed!!! Thanks to Our Brave military forces!:lifter
Go Get Em' Guys!
Holly
Team Sergeant
04-17-2009, 15:54
Barry and the Pirates....
Smacks of another spinless president that left 50 American hostages on their own for 444 days.....
Subject: The real story of Obama's Decision Making with the hostages. (U)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Subject: AH, now it comes out
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the Op Area and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage; 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour.
As usual with him, it's BS.
So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-.
Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips' first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn't worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country's Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors-and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority - the president of the United States, Barack Obama - had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage's life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates - and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a
mandate from the commander in chief's staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a "peaceful solution" would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he'd had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage's life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer - unnamed in all media reports to date - decided the AK47
one captor had leveled at Philips' back was a threat to the hostage's life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday's dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president's toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration's (and its sycophants') attempt to spin yesterday's success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours - as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location - became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
Thank you, Team Sergeant. Fascinating information.
Utah Bob
04-17-2009, 17:24
Very interesting Team Sergeant. Thanks.
What the heck!! Here's some more compost for the pile. It is written so must be true.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2009/4/12/16111/4084
Thanks, TS. Please also send our thanks and regards to the folks involved.
Team Sergeant
04-17-2009, 18:40
Thanks, TS. Please also send our thanks and regards to the folks involved.
I got that email from "Special Operations" sources.....;) I'd show you who but then I'd have... you know the rest.....
I'm sure the SEALs involved know this country is grateful for their service.
TS
*post deleted after engaging associated grey matter, expending ATP, my apologies for any inconvenience this has caused
The story posted by TS makes sense. The POTUS is the only editor of the Harvard Law Review who never wrote an editorial himself. That would require taking a position and placing himself in a position where folks could throw stones at him.
I don't think someone goes from being unable to take decisive action to being decisive overnight. It's not in his nature. He's a play it safe kind of guy who is in over his head. On the bright side, maybe this incident will give him a certain amount of confidence in our military. It's amazing. He spent two years campaigning against Hillary, only to fill his cabinet with ex Clinton folks, and it's like deja vu all over again.
armymom1228
04-18-2009, 01:59
wondered how long it would be before someone created a
demotivational poster of the 'event"
see thumbnails.
armymom1228
04-18-2009, 02:09
Very interesting Team Sergeant. Thanks.
x2 - same here.
What truly worries me, is, if this is what BHO does for such a small deal where he should have just said, 'waste the efffers, get our citizen back safe".. what will he do when it really counts? Go hide under his desk?
What truly worries me, is, if this is what BHO does for such a small deal...what will he do when it really counts? Go hide under his desk?
Or worse. Tom Clancy does a good job of describing the actions of such a POTUS with a personality like O-bee's in Sum of All Fears. You might not want to read it, though - it'll make you even more nervous about our current POTUS.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The antihero
04-18-2009, 06:47
Thank you for the insight sir, very interesting.
Despite the Obama administration's (and its sycophants') attempt to spin yesterday's success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours - as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location - became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
{And} the most successful practitioner of community organizing looks around for what he thinks is a problem, chastises both sides and allots absolutely equal blame, gives exalted moral lectures about compromise and understanding, and then waltzes away well paid, praised for his moderation {and pragmatic decisiveness}, but having accomplished nothing.
It looks to me like it'll be a long four years for all of us. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
04-18-2009, 11:05
AM, Pretty cool thumbnails,Go Navy Seals Snipers ...............:lifter
I'm just curious about what longrange1947 thought about those 3 shots,3 kills....:D
GB TFS :munchin
6.8SPC_DUMP
04-18-2009, 12:38
Pirate hostage captain praises SEAL 'superheroes' (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090417/ap_on_re_us/piracy_captain)
UNDERHILL, Vt. – The unassuming ship captain who escaped the clutches of Somali pirates made a triumphant return home Friday, insisting he's no hero, just an ordinary seaman. Richard Phillips said the U.S. Navy, which pulled off the daring high-seas rescue that ended his five-day captivity, deserves the credit.
"They're the superheroes," a relaxed, hale-looking Phillips said upon his arrival at Burlington International Airport. "They're the titans. They're impossible men doing an impossible job, and they did the impossible with me. ... They're at the point of the sword every day, doing an impossible job every day."
All class...
One thing that cracks me up is the jump mission part. They just wanted a jump mission. I don't blame them, it is just funny. They were probably in Djibouti to start with
The news this morning said the 19 y/o captured pirate was waving and smiling wearing his blue prisoner jump suit when he arrived in New York. Of course he is smiling and happy. One year in our maximum security prison is way better than one year living in Somalia. Duh! The public doesn't get it! I think it is time to go clean up Somalia. I bet B 3-75 would volunteer. The only thing those people will understand is violence of action! The problem will continue until force is met with force. Even the French are discussing military action.
Hats off to the Blue Dudes! The shot was close but had to be very difficult due to all the variables. I heard it was a MK-11 anyone hear different?
Got this from my dad yesterday, who recieved it from a friend of his who is retired Navy. If it is anywhere even remotely close to the truth, we are up shit creek without any paddles.
Subject: AH, now it comes out
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger 3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction 4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams 6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies 7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour.
As usual with him, it's BS.
So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-.
Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips' first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn't worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country's Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors - and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority - the president of the United States, Barack Obama - had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage's life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day,
a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates - and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief's staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a "peaceful solution" would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the onscenecommander decided he'd had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage's life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer - unnamed in all media reports to date - decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips' back was a threat to the hostage's life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday's dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president's toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration's (and its sycophants') attempt to spin yesterday's success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.
What should have been a standoff lasting only hours - as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location - became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
Got this from my dad yesterday, who recieved it from a friend of his who is retired Navy......
Not to pick at your source but this e-mail has been making the rounds like wild fire. It is begining to get forwarded so many times nobody can find the original source.
Might or might not be true - but so many wish it was.
Time will tell - should be a book out in less than a year "View From the Stern - My time behind the sights"
Not to pick at your source but this e-mail has been making the rounds like wild fire. It is begining to get forwarded so many times nobody can find the original source.
Might or might not be true - but so many wish it was.
Time will tell - should be a book out in less than a year "View From the Stern - My time behind the sights"
I honestly hope that it isn't true, because of the ramifications if it is.
I hadn't seen this from any other source, thanks for letting me know it is making the rounds. That changes things a bit.
One thing that cracks me up is the jump mission part. They just wanted a jump mission. I don't blame them, it is just funny. They were probably in Djibouti to start with
The news this morning said the 19 y/o captured pirate was waving and smiling wearing his blue prisoner jump suit when he arrived in New York. Of course he is smiling and happy. One year in our maximum security prison is way better than one year living in Somalia. Duh! The public doesn't get it! I think it is time to go clean up Somalia. I bet B 3-75 would volunteer. The only thing those people will understand is violence of action! The problem will continue until force is met with force. Even the French are discussing military action.
Hats off to the Blue Dudes! The shot was close but had to be very difficult due to all the variables. I heard it was a MK-11 anyone hear different?
Here is what pisses me off. :mad: Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer, said he has been in discussions about forming a legal team to represent the Somali suspect.
"I think in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas," said Kuby. "This man seemed to come onto the Bainbridge under a flag of truce to negotiate. He was then captured. There is a question whether he is lawfully in American custody and serious questions as to whether he can be prosecuted because of his age."
Here they go trying to fall over each other to say why it is not a persons fault for doing a bad thing. He is A PIRATE from Somalia. He is Guilty of Piracy and Kidnapping and threatening to Kill an American. Caught Red handed. He did not go there under a white flag and he said he was not going back when he got on the ship. He should be given to Kenya who has the Death Penalty for such crimes but NO we are going to waste more tax payer dollars and put him up on our dime. Keel Haul him as the old navy regs say to do for a pirate and mutanier.......
ZonieDiver
04-21-2009, 13:24
Hell, I see a "reality show" in his future, with a lucrative paycheck.
Trump will probably start "Terrorist Apprentice" next, and this pirate will be the first "celebrity" guest.
Utah Bob
04-21-2009, 14:00
Just saw the kid on the news grinning from ear to ear. Probably the best food and treatment he's had in years. They're gonna make a celebrity out of this guy. Never should have been brought to CONUS!:mad:
The Reaper
04-21-2009, 14:07
Just saw the kid on the news grinning from ear to ear. Probably the best food and treatment he's had in years. They're gonna make a celebrity out of this guy. Never should have been brought to CONUS!:mad:
Agreed.
Should have been dropped off in Kenya for execution.
TR
I'm for putting him in the general prison population of the State Penitentiary in Vermont where CAPT Phillips is from. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
04-21-2009, 15:21
What a farce this is turning out to be.........:rolleyes: He's going to be a hero before this BS is over with.........:( The bleeding hearts aren't going to let him get the punishment he deserves..........:mad:
GB TFS :munchin
TrapLine
04-21-2009, 15:37
Twin Cities Somali advocate heading to NY to help accused pirate
By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune
A Twin Cities Somali community activist said he is on his way to New York this morning on a mission to ensure that an accused pirate is treated justly in a court appearance this afternoon.
Jamal said he intends to be in court today with Wali-i-Musi and carrying a letter from his parents in Somalia explaining that Jamal has permission to arrange for Wali-i-Musi's defense.
http://www.startribune.com/local/43336592.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ
I figured it would not be long before something like this would happen. As I said earlier, I would not be surprised if he ends up living just down the street from me. Hopefully they can keep him under lock and key at least as long as it takes to get that permit to purchase in MN...the system is to be backlogged right now for some reason.
Utah Bob
04-21-2009, 16:51
And here we go...
"He was crying when arraigned today" - CNN
No doubt the little SOB will be on Entertainment Tonight shortly. Might even push Michelle Obama to the backpage.
Did I say thea out loud?
Defender968
04-21-2009, 18:19
:mad:Agreed.
Should have been dropped off in Kenya for execution.
TR
Agreed, I'd like to know what idiot decided to bring him here in the first place. I mean we're importing criminals now, I didn't know we were running so low, with them streaming over the boarder freely I figured we had more than our quota already.
It costs around 30K or more per year to keep an inmate incarcerated in a federal pen and I believe Piracy carries a life sentence, which means when this thug is convicted it'll cost us over 1.3M to hold him until he dies WTFO. Last time I checked we are in a financial crisis? Didn't the one want to cut 100M out of the budget, hell there's 1% right there, what's an AK-47 round cost in Kenya? I can't imagine a whole lot, let them execute that POS, saves us the heartache and tons of cash.
This is just more proof that DC is full of oxygen thieves.
The Reaper
04-21-2009, 18:47
:mad:Agreed, I'd like to know what idiot decided to bring him here in the first place.
You have to be kidding.
Who do you think? Look high up. REAL high.
TR
Defender968
04-21-2009, 19:06
You have to be kidding.
Who do you think? Look high up. REAL high.
TR
Sorry TR if there was a dripping with sarcasm icon I'd have put it on there. I do understand how it came about, it just continues to amaze me.
He should have fell out of the boat while trying to escape...
Smokin Joe
04-21-2009, 21:18
He should have fell out of the boat while trying to escape...
I couldn't agree more.... By the time the scumbag attorney's get done with this camel shit eating motherf**ker he will do somewhere around 24 months in a minimum security juvenile prison, have his record sealed by the time he is released, and be granted U.S. citizenship because "it would be to hard on him to go back to his poor, poor country" (sic)
I bet dip shit's scum sucking attorney attempts to prove the following:
1)Dip shit wasn't the master mind and was forced into going along on the hijack and kidnap because some family member owed a blood debt to some other pirate who was the master mind behind this, and poor little dip shit was just mixed up it the entire ordeal because of a family debt.... hence he is a victim as well.
2)Dip shit is a juvenile (whether it is true or not)..... thats right folks SOME attorneys will lie or "create" evidence despite the truth just to get there clients off. And in this case it probably wouldn't be to hard to do, as I doubt Somlia has ANY record keeping when it comes to birth certs.
Just my .02 cents
He should have fell out of the boat while trying to escape...
We needed the intelligence. Now, however... ;)
On the other hand, he is a good piece of bait to draw out and identify the traitors who will sell their soul and this nation for - whatever.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
armymom1228
04-21-2009, 22:07
He should have fell out of the boat while trying to escape...
Fell???? Hel, for a smile I would have pushed him overboard, and filmed it for YouTube.
Was in Annapolis today, saw this sign on the local booze shop..
AM
I'm not quite sure why but it seems some countries have been doing the catch and release, and bit most recently it was the Canadian's. For those of you who may be interested here are some of the applicable UN and US agreements and laws.
The following definition of piracy is contained in article 101 of the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS):
“Piracy consists of any of the following acts:
(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:
(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship
or aircraft;
(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;
(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts
making it a pirate ship or aircraft;
(c) any act inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b).”
It goes on to say
In November 2001, the IMO Assembly adopted the Code of Practice for the Investigation of the Crimes of Piracy and Armed Robbery Against Ships (resolution A.922(22)) as well as Measures to prevent the registration of phantom ships (resolution A.923(22)).
Piracy and armed robbery against ships is dealt with by the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) as well as by the Facilitation Committee.
Article105
Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft
On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.
because of the length here is part 2 of the post above:
Sec. 2280. Violence against maritime navigation
(a) Offenses.--
(1) In general.--A person who unlawfully and intentionally--
(A) seizes or exercises control over a ship by force or
threat thereof or any other form of intimidation;
(B) performs an act of violence against a person on board a
ship if that act is likely to endanger the safe navigation of
that ship;
(C) destroys a ship or causes damage to a ship or to its
cargo which is likely to endanger the safe navigation of that
ship;
(D) places or causes to be placed on a ship, by any means
whatsoever, a device or substance which is likely to destroy
that ship, or cause damage to that ship or its cargo which
endangers or is likely to endanger the safe navigation of that
ship;
(E) destroys or seriously damages maritime navigational
facilities or seriously interferes with their operation, if such
act is likely to endanger the safe navigation of a ship;
(F) communicates information, knowing the information to be
false and under circumstances in which such information may
reasonably be believed, thereby endangering the safe navigation
of a ship;
(G) injures or kills any person in connection with the
commission or the attempted commission of any of the offenses
set forth in subparagraphs (A) through (F); or
(H) attempts or conspires to do any act prohibited under
subparagraphs (A) through (G),
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and if the death of any person results from conduct prohibited by this paragraph, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(2) Threat to navigation.--A person who threatens to do any act prohibited under paragraph (1)(B), (C) or (E), with apparent determination and will to carry the threat into execution, if the threatened act is likely to endanger the safe navigation of the ship in question, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b) Jurisdiction.--There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection
(a)--
(1) in the case of a covered ship, if--
(A) such activity is committed--
(i) against or on board a ship flying the flag of the United States at the time the prohibited activity is committed;
(ii) in the United States; or
(iii) by a national of the United States or by a
stateless person whose habitual residence is in the United
States;
(B) during the commission of such activity, a national of
the United States is seized, threatened, injured or killed; or
(C) the offender is later found in the United States after
such activity is committed;
(2) in the case of a ship navigating or scheduled to navigate
solely within the territorial sea or internal waters of a country
other than the United States, if the offender is later found in the
United States after such activity is committed; and
(3) in the case of any vessel, if such activity is committed in
an attempt to compel the United States to do or abstain from doing
any act.
(c) Bar To Prosecution.--It is a bar to Federal prosecution under
subsection (a) for conduct that occurred within the United States that
the conduct involved was during or in relation to a labor dispute, and
such conduct is prohibited as a felony under the law of the State in
which it was committed. For purposes of this section, the term ``labor
dispute'' has the meaning set forth in section 2(c) \1\ of the Norris-
La Guardia Act, as amended (29 U.S.C. 113(c)).
(d) Delivery of Suspected Offender.--The master of a covered ship
flying the flag of the United States who has reasonable grounds to
believe that there is on board that ship any person who has committed an
offense under Article 3 of the Convention for the Suppression of
Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation may deliver such
person to the authorities of a State Party to that Convention. Before
delivering such person to the authorities of another country, the master
shall notify in an appropriate manner the Attorney General of the United
States of the alleged offense and await instructions from the Attorney
General as to what action to take. When delivering the person to a
country which is a State Party to the Convention, the master shall,
whenever practicable, and if possible before entering the territorial
sea of such country, notify the authorities of such country of the
master's intention to deliver such person and the reasons therefor. If
the master delivers such person, the master shall furnish to the
authorities of such country the evidence in the master's possession that
pertains to the alleged offense.
(e) Definitions.--In this section--
``covered ship'' means a ship that is navigating or is scheduled
to navigate into, through or from waters beyond the outer limit of
the territorial sea of a single country or a lateral limit of that
country's territorial sea with an adjacent country.
``national of the United States'' has the meaning stated in
section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C.
1101(a)(22)).
``territorial sea of the United States'' means all waters
extending seaward to 12 nautical miles from the baselines of the
United States determined in accordance with international law.
``ship'' means a vessel of any type whatsoever not permanently
attached to the sea-bed, including dynamically supported craft,
submersibles or any other floating craft, but does not include a
warship, a ship owned or operated by a government when being used as
a naval auxiliary or for customs or police purposes, or a ship which
has been withdrawn from navigation or laid up.
``United States'', when used in a geographical sense, includes
the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Commonwealth of the Northern
Mariana Islands and all territories and possessions of the United
States.
(Added Pub. L. 103-322, title VI, Sec. 60019(a), Sept. 13, 1994, 108
Stat. 1975; amended Pub. L. 104-132, title VII, Secs. 722, 723(a)(1),
Apr. 24, 1996, 110 Stat. 1299, 1300.)
Amendments
1996--Subsec. (a)(1)(H). Pub. L. 104-132, Sec. 723(a)(1), inserted
``or conspires'' after ``attempts''.
Subsec. (b)(1)(A)(ii). Pub. L. 104-132, Sec. 722(1), struck out
``and the activity is not prohibited as a crime by the State in which
the activity takes place'' after ``the United States''.
Subsec. (b)(1)(A)(iii). Pub. L. 104-132, Sec. 722(2), struck out
``the activity takes place on a ship flying the flag of a foreign
country or outside the United States,'' before ``by a national of the
United States''.
Effective Date
Section 60019(c) of Pub. L. 103-322 provided that: ``This section
[enacting this section and section 2281 of this title] and the
amendments made by this section shall take effect on the later of--
``(1) the date of the enactment of this Act [Sept. 13, 1994]; or
``(2)(A) in the case of section 2280 of title 18, United States
Code, the date the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts
Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation has come into force and
the United States has become a party to that Convention; and
``(B) in the case of section 2281 of title 18, United States
Code, the date the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts
Against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental
Shelf has come into force and the United States has become a party
to that Protocol.''
[Convention and Protocol came into force Mar. 1, 1992, and entered into
force with respect to the United States Mar. 6, 1995, Treaty Doc. 101-
1.]
Territorial Sea of United States
For extension of territorial sea of United States, see Proc. No.
5928, set out as a note under section 1331 of Title 43, Public Lands.
Section Referred to in Other Sections
This section is referred to in sections 1956, 2332b, 2339, 2339A,
3592 of this title.
The antihero
04-22-2009, 11:29
President Obama dispatched two separate teams of Navy commandos to carry out last week's rescue of a merchant ship captain held hostage by Somali pirates but left the operational details and rules of engagement to military commanders, National Security Adviser James. L. Jones said Tuesday.
"I can tell you from a White House and presidential standpoint, there was no conflict, no gnashing of teeth, or excessive influence in trying to manage this thing," Mr. Jones, a retired Marine Corps four-star general, told The Washington Times in an interview.
He and other military officials gave the most detailed account to date of how Navy SEAL forces were dispatched - first from a base in Africa and later from the United States - to carry out the mission, and how Pentagon officials communicated with the White House. They sought to dispel Internet reports that the military was delayed from taking action by indecision inside the White House.
"I don't recognize" the information being circulated on the Internet, Mr. Jones said. [...]
The anonymous SEAL source stated in the Internet posting that was attributed to "some SEAL pals in Virginia Beach" that the president would not authorize the SEALs to deploy for 36 hours despite requests from the on-scene commander.
The senior military official said that assertion was false.
The posting also stated that rules of engagement imposed by the president prevented action unless the hostage's life was in imminent danger.
The military official said the commander had authority to take action at all times because Mr. Phillips was being held at gunpoint, but that he was balancing his authority with Washington's request to seek a peaceful outcome.
Whole text here (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/22/obama-okd-2-seal-teams-for-pirates/print/).
Can remember vaguely awhile back that there was a petition circulated here on PS for TS to RUN for President, and TR for Sec Def!:lifter
Had to type that bit of encouragement, as I just heard on Fox News, that the "mom" of the pirate is crying that her "son is only a juvenille, was forced to participate, but not willingly blah blah blah...and...brace yourselves, Wants none-other than our very own O. Hussein to pardon him!" GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Guess she wants some of my tax dollars on her food stamp card, to buy the essentials for her and her sons new apartment here in the U.S.A.:rolleyes:
(Though, I have no problem with the food stamp program, for those Americans that really need it...they are welcome to my little contibution.)
Clicking heels, and shaking my head...
my little .02
Holly
The antihero
04-22-2009, 13:22
Can remember vaguely awhile back that there was a petition circulated here on PS for TS to RUN for President, and TR for Sec Def!:lifter
Can foreigners sign that too?:D
Team Sergeant
04-22-2009, 21:55
President Obama dispatched two separate teams of Navy commandos to carry out last week's rescue of a merchant ship captain held hostage by Somali pirates but left the operational details and rules of engagement to military commanders, National Security Adviser James. L. Jones said Tuesday.
"I can tell you from a White House and presidential standpoint, there was no conflict, no gnashing of teeth, or excessive influence in trying to manage this thing," Mr. Jones, a retired Marine Corps four-star general, told The Washington Times in an interview.
He and other military officials gave the most detailed account to date of how Navy SEAL forces were dispatched - first from a base in Africa and later from the United States - to carry out the mission, and how Pentagon officials communicated with the White House. They sought to dispel Internet reports that the military was delayed from taking action by indecision inside the White House.
"I don't recognize" the information being circulated on the Internet, Mr. Jones said. [...]
The anonymous SEAL source stated in the Internet posting that was attributed to "some SEAL pals in Virginia Beach" that the president would not authorize the SEALs to deploy for 36 hours despite requests from the on-scene commander.
The senior military official said that assertion was false.
The posting also stated that rules of engagement imposed by the president prevented action unless the hostage's life was in imminent danger.
The military official said the commander had authority to take action at all times because Mr. Phillips was being held at gunpoint, but that he was balancing his authority with Washington's request to seek a peaceful outcome.
Whole text here (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/22/obama-okd-2-seal-teams-for-pirates/print/).
Here's something to ponder, I highly doubt a "a retired Marine Corps four-star general" has access to JSOC or Special Operations for that matter....
Had that statement come from a retired "SOCOM Commander" it might have carried some weight......
You are what you read and who you believe, I ain't about to believe a retired Marine General in this matter. I'm guessing obama promised the General some extra stimulus money to make that statement.
And, since when does the White House take time to answer "FALSE" internet claims.
Something tells me the "false" email hit real close to being 100% true. I'm betting my dirty socks have more time in Special Operations than the Marine General that gave the "interview" for the left-wing media.
But what do I know.;)
Team Sergeant
General Jones was Commandant before our current Commandant, Gen. Conway. Doesn't necessarily mean he knows much about SOF, and I highly doubt he has more experience there than you, TS. However, I thought it worth noting that he wasn't just any General.
(edited for grammar)
The antihero
04-23-2009, 05:50
Here's something to ponder, I highly doubt a "a retired Marine Corps four-star general" has access to JSOC or Special Operations for that matter....
Had that statement come from a retired "SOCOM Commander" it might have carried some weight......
You are what you read and who you believe, I ain't about to believe a retired Marine General in this matter. I'm guessing obama promised the General some extra stimulus money to make that statement.
And, since when does the White House take time to answer "FALSE" internet claims.
Something tells me the "false" email hit real close to being 100% true. I'm betting my dirty socks have more time in Special Operations than the Marine General that gave the "interview" for the left-wing media.
But what do I know.;)
Team Sergeant
Put it this way: if I had to choose between believing anything the MSM said and anything The Team Sergeant said, I would choose the latter any day of the year. In Spec Ops related matters? Go figure.
Why are "Seal Pals" leaking information on the internet?
uboat509
04-23-2009, 19:18
Pretty good post here (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?p=70622#post70622) at Small Wars Journal that sums up the options we have for dealing with the piracy threat along with pros and cons for each.
The Seven Ways to Stop Piracy
And why none of them will work as well as we might hope.
By Ken Menkhaus
Posted April 2009
Now that the rush of excitement has subsided from the made-for-TV drama of the rescue of Captain Phillips, we are left with the more sobering long-term question of what to do about Somali piracy. Whether piracy constitutes a serious national security threat is a subject of debate. But there is no question that piracy off the Somali coast is now an important symbolic political issue for both the Obama administration and its critics. The Obama administration does not want conservative opponents to portray it as weak on defense or unwilling to use force to protect American interests, and so cannot afford to embrace passive policies on piracy. Yet the piracy issue is replete with traps, a seemingly simple problem with seemingly simple solutions, all of which could easily backfire and make things worse.
Indeed, some of the strategies that have the greatest appeal for the American public and punditry are also the most dangerous. And certainly, none of them offers a quick fix.
SFC W
Countries have pledged $213 million at an international conference to boost security in Somalia and halt the country's growing piracy problem.
And in the NO Duh! statement category:
"One of our biggest problems is that al-Shabaab has AK-47s, and the pirates have AK-47s, and the government has AK-47s."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/24/pirates.security.meeting.money/index.html?eref=rss_world
Richard's $.02 :munchin
This pic says it all. ;)
Maybe the Redskins should consider changing their name, too. :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Team Sergeant
04-24-2009, 14:00
Why are "Seal Pals" leaking information on the internet?
Because they're pissed off.
Might not be the SEALS themselves, could have come from inside the Special Operations community.
I've yet to hear one (past or present) Special Operations commander call the email "false".;)
TS
Here's the party line. ;)
Interesting though is the disclaimer near the end:
We’re not sure where the e-mail comes from. It could actually be from a SEAL who wasn’t aware of what was going on at the Pentagon, the White House or the Bainbridge.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_delay_the_rescue_of_captain.html
Did Obama delay the rescue of Captain Phillips?
Is this e-mail accurate?