View Full Version : Weapon concealment options
I've used the search button to find a variety of good options for those who wear holsters; however, I would like to solicit thoughts about the drawbacks (and advantages) to non-holster options.
I'm in San Antonio, which means that much of the year is warm or hot. Therefore, wearing a jacket or blazer probably isn't a good solution. Even a windbreaker would look odd on a 95 degree day.
A large, loose shirt might work in conjunction with a holster; however, it seems likely that drawing a weapon might take a considerable amount of time as I lifted the shirt, drew the weapon, and tried to avoid getting tangled in the excess fabric. Various "fanny" packs are available, but look like what they are - an attempt to hide a firearm.
I would like to find a solution that conceals, is convenient, but is not obvious. Ankle holsters would have me attempting gymnastics while in a stressful situation. Amusing to observers, surely, but probably not a good solution.
I prefer a full sized automatic - probably a Glock 22 in .40, or perhaps a new HK USP in .45, just purchased as a result of studying this forum :) Neither of those seems easy to conceal in light clothing - which, in my case, normally consists of a knit polo-style shirt and dress slacks.
So...would a small messenger style bag work? On the positive side, it would conceal effectively and provide adequate space for a full-sized frame. On the negative side, it would be subject to theft (a thief might grab it in a surprise attack), it would certainly take longer to draw, and I suppose there is always a risk of leaving it lying about. (Yes, that would be stupid, but I think one must allow for the possibility). I thought about an inexpensive laptop case, but that might increase the likelihood of theft. Other solutions, such as the Versapack, look too much like places to conceal weapons. The camouflage pattern would have an effect opposite to the original intent, and would, I suspect, draw attention.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Nmap.
Nmap
You may want to consider multiple options.. As you probably wear jeans more than shorts, My solution may not apply,, but it's food for thought..
Here in the Conch Republic, the weather is similar to Tx,, HOT HOT HOT.. The difference,, we wear White work boots,, with shorts..
Daily wear is shorts and T's,, Dress up for dinner and you go for the Polo or Guayabera.
I use the following:
SMALL,, NAA .22 mag, w/ 1 5/8 inch,, under 8oz,, fits any-ware including neck harness.
MEDIUM,, Glock 23 or S&W 940,, in either a small leather butt pak or my version of thunderware
The problem with butt paks,, EVERYONE knows you are not carrying lipstick. The only advantage here is all the touristas from Saginaw Mi have them..
The commercial version of Thunderware is fantastic. Sits comfortably. has room for spare mag. The down side is you need a loose fitting belt line so you can, if needed, pull the front out to grab Mr Big and not look like Pee Wee Herman...
I took an old sliding belt holster for a 1911, stitched up a velcro belt of moderately heavy 2 inch strap. No room for spare mag, but when positioned properly you can ware it inside your bathing suit.
The third venue is to get one of the .380 or 9 mm mini-me's and stick it in your back pocket. I like the looks of the 9mm Rohrbaugh, but for piratical use the .380's by Ruger, NAA, & Kel-Tec are better deals..
Link for ThunderWear: http://www.thunderwear.com/index.asp
Rohrbaugh: http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/
Abu Jack
04-01-2009, 04:44
I live in Florida. I have used thunderware since I got my CCW in 2005. I carry a Glock 27 and a spare magazine. The spare has a two round extender so I carry a total of 20 rounds. Like JJ said an elastic waistband is a must. I do alot of outdoor activities (fishing, camping, canoeing, etc) with my 11 year old son. He doesn't know I carry, that's how good I think it is. I don't expect to out draw anyone. It's a risk I've accepted so I can carry when wearing only shorts.
I carry my PT145 (daily carry) in a Crossbreed IWB holster and it's EXTREMELY comfortable. I purchased the horsehide version.
You can check them out here.
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/
I was wanting the MTAC from Comp-tac but they have yet to make one for the PT145. On a a couple of gun forums I go to it's usually a toss up between the two.
http://www.comp-tac.com/
I have had a Clipdraw on a S&W 642 for about 5 years, with no complaints. Unless you wear an undershirt, the weapon will be more exposed to sweat (rather common in south central Texas).
http://www.clipdraw.com/store/index.php?rn=394&action=show_detail
Team Sergeant
04-01-2009, 09:56
You gents using Thunderwear and a Glock are far braver then me.....;)
Thank you all for the good ideas. I'll have to do some reflecting on the best solution - and I appreciate every response.
Nmap.
You gents using Thunderwear and a Glock are far braver then me.....;)
HaHa!
I actually purchased that one first. I truly trust it and it is pretty easily accessible but just didn't feel quite as comfortable as I would want it to be. It's definitely a DEEP conceal rig and will work VERY well when wearing shorts in the summer even if you don't have a shirt on. The manufacturer sells is under two different names (Smart Carry is the 2nd name). There is also a knockoff version that I definitely would not trust as there has been 1 person that I know of who had an unfortunate accident with it when he bent down. I won't go into detail as to his injuries but he DEFINITELY injured himself in some VERY tender spots. The knockoff was just too thin and flimsy which is what helped facilitate the discharge. You won't have that problem with the Thunderwear version though even with a Glock. Even trying I can't pull the trigger on the Glock when it's in the holster.
AL
Check out the Ctac from Comp Tac. IWB is about as good as it gets for carrying when it is hot outside. The holsters are around $80 though which is substantial for kydex(plastic). Its pretty much a kydex shell with leather stabilizer struts on the sides with kydex clips. You really want Kydex over leather in the hot weather. Leather will make you sweat more and properly worn you won't know its there. That's why you need to buy quality for a summer wear holster. Winter who cares, just OWB under a jacket and be done with it.
I've been carrying either a full size Glock or full size Kimber "crotched" in a cut down Galco leather holster for about 7 years. It gets to be comfortable, and is easily concealable as long as your shirt doesn't have to be tucked.
Hartzco
Here in the Conch Republic, the weather is similar to Tx,, HOT HOT HOT.. The difference,, we wear White work boots,, with shorts..
Dammit. I'm less than 1wk out from my first trip to the Keys and now I find out that the wife, kids, and I need white work boots! I HATE not blending in with the locals!
Dammit. I'm less than 1wk out from my first trip to the Keys and now I find out that the wife, kids, and I need white work boots! I HATE not blending in with the locals!
We make exceptions to the rule.. :D
Big Daddy
04-02-2009, 20:39
Dammit. I'm less than 1wk out from my first trip to the Keys and now I find out that the wife, kids, and I need white work boots! I HATE not blending in with the locals!
Off topic and for that I apologize, but what a great looking dog? Is he yours? That has to be one of the best GDS's I've ever seen.
Off topic and for that I apologize, but what a great looking dog? Is he yours? That has to be one of the best GDS's I've ever seen.
PM sent
dr. mabuse
04-05-2009, 15:43
Nmap, ditto with TS. Would suggest TONS of practice with an empty firearm with Thuderwear before going live. The clenching actions of the human hand after a heavy adrenaline dump can be dangerous I've learned.
Enough encounters in the Dallas/Fort Worth area are ~ 5 feet so you'd better be very fast ripping your friend out of your shorts. Or in San Antonio, I guess you could push them into the river to buy some time.:o
People who make alternatives to the fanny pack (the owner of the notorious Pager Pal comes to mind) will bash fanny packs yet they are more discreet than you might imagine, are reasonably fast with some practice, and, contrary to popular belief, everyone does not look at you, stare at the fanny pack, and think you have a gun. I would have noticed that in the past 13 years.
Just a thought. Have more than one way to carry. Stay safe.
Again, my thanks to everyone for great ideas.
I can see a variety of benefits to the Kimber IWB - although the weight of a full-sized automatic might result in an embarrassing development. :o
Dr. Mabuse, you make some interesting points. Some other conversations I've had indicate that few (if any) notice the various fanny packs that people wear. I'm thinking of This Item (http://www.swissarmy.com/TravelGear/Pages/Product.aspx?category=travelaccessorieslifestyle&product=35531&), since it is large enough for anything (10 x 7 x 4) I would ever need.
It's true that I can't draw quickly; but I'm more inclined to avoid trouble than to confront it - which is, I think, best for unremarkable civilians.
A wise friend suggested that the .45 might be somewhat more than I would need or want on a daily basis, and I suspect they gave good advice. In fact, they suggested that a 9mm might be most appropriate for me. However, my selection of "nines" consists of a Glock and an all-steel S&W 559. I like the S&W a lot, but it is rather heavy.
So I may go with a SIG 239 in .40. It has tritium sites, and I doubt I will need more than the 8 round magazine capacity. It, a spare magazine, and whatever else should fit nicely in the case. Perhaps I could even add a can of pepper spray as a non-lethal alternative.
Utah Bob
04-07-2009, 18:06
Dammit. I'm less than 1wk out from my first trip to the Keys and now I find out that the wife, kids, and I need white work boots! I HATE not blending in with the locals!
And they're short, white, rubber boots, not the thigh high leather go-go type.
Wouldn't want you to buy the wrong thing..:D
And they're short, white, rubber boots, not the thigh high leather go-go type.
Wouldn't want you to buy the wrong thing..:D
Shit. I got me a pair of thigh highs.
Ambush Master
04-07-2009, 19:48
I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT (.380) or P32 (.32) almost all of the time, even when carrying a larger frame weapon. They are so light and small, that I can carry them in light shorts or in a shirt pocket. Yeah, I know....Rat Guns, but most encounters are so close that the "power factor" won't matter with proper shot placement. In an 8-10 foot engagement, that should not be a problem!!
They are also "Hard Chromed" so the sweat factor is not a problem.
Any questions, feel free to PM.
Later
Martin
Just tried to order a ruger LCP (.380) and the guy at the gun store laughed. HE said they stopped taking backorders when they got a year behind. They are working that backlog off...currently filling september's orders.:eek:
Go Devil
04-08-2009, 05:55
Nmap, ditto with TS. Would suggest TONS of practice with an empty firearm with Thuderwear before going live. The clenching actions of the human hand after a heavy adrenaline dump can be dangerous I've learned.
Enough encounters in the Dallas/Fort Worth area are ~ 5 feet so you'd better be very fast ripping your friend out of your shorts. Or in San Antonio, I guess you could push them into the river to buy some time.:o
People who make alternatives to the fanny pack (the owner of the notorious Pager Pal comes to mind) will bash fanny packs yet they are more discreet than you might imagine, are reasonably fast with some practice, and, contrary to popular belief, everyone does not look at you, stare at the fanny pack, and think you have a gun. I would have noticed that in the past 13 years.
Just a thought. Have more than one way to carry. Stay safe.
Fanny packs are not a problem, if you know how to conceal the fanny pack.
11747
Who would chance to think that Pat is concealing a firearm?
Just tried to order a ruger LCP (.380) and the guy at the gun store laughed. HE said they stopped taking backorders when they got a year behind. They are working that backlog off...currently filling september's orders.:eek:
There are several on gunbroker around $350-$370. It's a bit over retail but you'd get it sooner...
Team Sergeant
04-08-2009, 10:52
Just tried to order a ruger LCP (.380) and the guy at the gun store laughed. HE said they stopped taking backorders when they got a year behind. They are working that backlog off...currently filling september's orders.:eek:
You might want to consider another weapon..... seems Ruger is still working out the bugs on the LCP ;)
http://www.ruger.com/LCPRecall/
Not So Slow
04-08-2009, 11:43
You might want to consider another weapon..... seems Ruger is still working out the bugs on the LCP ;)
http://www.ruger.com/LCPRecall/
Off topic for just a second:
What other bugs do you know of aside from the accidental dischage possibility that's been very well recalled by Ruger?
And back on topic:
IWB seems to be the best option proposed thus far, unless like stated, you must tuck your shirt in. The fanny pack, while it doesn't sound horrible, may create more hassle getting to the gun, but allows you to carry more additionals (extra mag).
My personal choice is the IWB, or if clothing allows, OWB.
Team Sergeant
04-08-2009, 14:27
Off topic for just a second:
What other bugs do you know of aside from the accidental dischage possibility that's been very well recalled by Ruger?
And back on topic:
IWB seems to be the best option proposed thus far, unless like stated, you must tuck your shirt in. The fanny pack, while it doesn't sound horrible, may create more hassle getting to the gun, but allows you to carry more additionals (extra mag).
My personal choice is the IWB, or if clothing allows, OWB.
Not so slow,
Nice screen name. You're 23, you understand how the internet works, try googling "Ruger Recalls".
Ask me again without doing some research and I'll change your screen name to "Kinda Slow".
Team Sergeant
tom kelly
04-08-2009, 14:44
Off topic for just a second:
What other bugs do you know of aside from the accidental dischage possibility that's been very well recalled by Ruger?
And back on topic:
IWB seems to be the best option proposed thus far, unless like stated, you must tuck your shirt in. The fanny pack, while it doesn't sound horrible, may create more hassle getting to the gun, but allows you to carry more additionals (extra mag).
My personal choice is the IWB, or if clothing allows, OWB.
Sorry, But IMHO there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge" any discharge of a firearm not intended is a "NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE" If you are accident prone DO NOT CARRY A FIREARM...Regard's, tom kelly
You might want to consider another weapon..... seems Ruger is still working out the bugs on the LCP ;)
http://www.ruger.com/LCPRecall/
Welll... it looks like they'll have a lot of time to continue to work things out before I get mine if I place my name on the list at the local shop. :D
Theoretically the new production run has the AD problem fixed... the retrofit work has probably reduced throughput, thus creating the HUGE backorder.
DinDinA-2
04-08-2009, 21:15
I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT (.380) or P32 (.32) almost all of the time, even when carrying a larger frame weapon. They are so light and small, that I can carry them in light shorts or in a shirt pocket. Yeah, I know....Rat Guns, but most encounters are so close that the "power factor" won't matter with proper shot placement. In an 8-10 foot engagement, that should not be a problem!!
They are also "Hard Chromed" so the sweat factor is not a problem.
Any questions, feel free to PM.
Later
Martin
Have you shot the Kel-Tech PF-9?? I am looking for an inexpensive slim-line.
I went with the swissarmy pack - it seems ideal, with small size, good capacity, and multiple pockets. The front pocket has a pen, some paper, and other harmless items. :cool:
The back pocket has a can of Fox Labs mean green OC spray, will now have a Glock 17 9mm (I'll upgrade in due course), and a knife. In addition, I've picked up a Kel Tec 380 based on the good words from wise people here. However, I have not yet tested the 380...
I did a brief test of the Glock today and used the ammo that had been in the magazines since....well...10 years ago? :eek:, along with a box (50 rnds) of my expected carry ammo. Not much, I realize, but at least somewhat better than nothing. I'll practice more as the days go by.
One magazine produced repeated malfunctions. It has been marked and a replacement ordered, although the rangemaster was able to stretch the spring and get it working again. The second magazine worked perfectly.
As always, comments, criticisms, and ideas are always welcome. And thanks again for the guidance. It is greatly appreciated.
perdurabo
04-23-2009, 11:53
I've used the search button to find a variety of good options for those who wear holsters; however, I would like to solicit thoughts about the drawbacks (and advantages) to non-holster options.
I'm in San Antonio, which means that much of the year is warm or hot. Therefore, wearing a jacket or blazer probably isn't a good solution. Even a windbreaker would look odd on a 95 degree day.
A large, loose shirt might work in conjunction with a holster; however, it seems likely that drawing a weapon might take a considerable amount of time as I lifted the shirt, drew the weapon, and tried to avoid getting tangled in the excess fabric. Various "fanny" packs are available, but look like what they are - an attempt to hide a firearm.
I would like to find a solution that conceals, is convenient, but is not obvious. Ankle holsters would have me attempting gymnastics while in a stressful situation. Amusing to observers, surely, but probably not a good solution.
I prefer a full sized automatic - probably a Glock 22 in .40, or perhaps a new HK USP in .45, just purchased as a result of studying this forum :) Neither of those seems easy to conceal in light clothing - which, in my case, normally consists of a knit polo-style shirt and dress slacks.
So...would a small messenger style bag work? On the positive side, it would conceal effectively and provide adequate space for a full-sized frame. On the negative side, it would be subject to theft (a thief might grab it in a surprise attack), it would certainly take longer to draw, and I suppose there is always a risk of leaving it lying about. (Yes, that would be stupid, but I think one must allow for the possibility). I thought about an inexpensive laptop case, but that might increase the likelihood of theft. Other solutions, such as the Versapack, look too much like places to conceal weapons. The camouflage pattern would have an effect opposite to the original intent, and would, I suspect, draw attention.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Nmap.
Comfortable IWB and appropriate-length shirt.
Practice drawing a lot (reach across your body with non-drawing hand, pull up shirt fabric near holster, draw weapon with drawing hand, release non-drawing hand from fabric and assume proper shooting positions). It's pretty easy and muscle memory comes quickly.
Big Daddy
04-26-2009, 07:09
If it hasn't been mentioned before, take a look at Kramer products. I carry a 229 in a Kramer IWB#3. It was in the high 70's here this week. My manner of dress was a t-shirt and jeans. The 229 was not noticable. I have a box load of holsters as I'm always looking to improve. I always end up going back to the Kramer.
The Canadian
04-27-2009, 05:53
well I carry on a daily basis to class, so I favor a small of the back carry for deeper concealment. The slower draw might be a problem one day, but it is not worth the panic that flashing my sidearm will cause the other 364 days of the year. After not being able to find a suitable small of the back holster that I liked for my Beretta 8045 mini cougar I decided to experiment with other options. This is what I use to carry these days
http://www.rangerjoes.com/bdu-rigger-belt-p-4406.html with a ribbed tank top(does anybody call them that? a wifebeater for those that don't know what a ribbed tank top under shirt is.)
I simply put on the wifebeater, then put on the rigging belt around my belly. I use the elastic band that is to hold the extra part of the belt to insert the barrel of my sidearm and then tighten the buckle to my left side. I did numerous tests with an unloaded sidearm to include 45 minutes on a treadmill, jumping rope and other physical activity that I normally wouldn't do during a normal carry day and found it was comfortable for me and stayed in place. I have carried this way for almost a year now.
I still practice drawing every once and a while. I just have to remember to not bother pulling the shirt up just away with the other hand and get my hand up there and I can help the release by sucking in my stomach and loosening the belt.
I think of it this way. Someone who says that you should buy a holster made for the gun from a manufacture, probably also thinks I should buy my bullets for my sidearm instead of making them myself as well. :rolleyes:
As always, I appreciate the concealment ideas.
For now, until I fix on a holster and devote significant practice time to it, I have gone with the swiss army pouch. One side has the firearm and some pepper spray, the other side has various harmless junk like a pen and some paper. A third area has a small first aid kit.
I've just added some Le Mas 9 mm to the mix, along with a 3.5 lb trigger connector. I'll probably add XS standard tritium sites sometime next month.
Not as quick on the draw as some here, so that's a trade-off, of course.
Again, thanks to all for the guidance.
I've just added some Le Mas 9 mm to the mix,
How did you get your hands on Le Mas??
How did you get your hands on Le Mas??
I got the civilian version of course...but they have a website, and a pleasant person who takes the orders.
http://www.rbcd.net/
20 rounds....just under $40 including tax and shipping... :eek:
Anevolution
05-12-2009, 14:41
Comfortable IWB and appropriate-length shirt.
Practice drawing a lot (reach across your body with non-drawing hand, pull up shirt fabric near holster, draw weapon with drawing hand, release non-drawing hand from fabric and assume proper shooting positions). It's pretty easy and muscle memory comes quickly. If your edc is a glock/xd it may be your printing because of the 2x4 feeling of the gun. A single stack will make your life a lot easer. Its also hot and sticky in my area I ware shorts and a tee all the time. My edc is a iwb kimber sis pro with two power mags in my left front pocket. I don't like having the mags on my belt I feel sorta like im Bruce wayne or something.
If your edc is a glock/xd it may be your printing because of the 2x4 feeling of the gun. A single stack will make your life a lot easer. Its also hot and sticky in my area I ware shorts and a tee all the time. My edc is a iwb kimber sis pro with two power mags in my left front pocket. I don't like having the mags on my belt I feel sorta like im Bruce wayne or something.
Or you need to cant the weapon forward. The beauty of the CTAC, MTAC and the Crossbreed IWB holsters is that they have the ability to adjust the cant of the weapon. I personally use the Crossbreed but only because there isn't an MTAC version for my weapon yet.
Re: your post of 03-31-2009; You ever decide how you were going to CCW the large frame auto? I carry a Bersa .380 inside an old 5x8 Daytimer leather binder. It conceals well and attracts no second looks at truck stops/coffee shops, etc. Looks like a bible. (BTW, bible cases might be a good method, too.
See http://www.internationalbibles.com/catalog/accessories/bible_cases/world/index.htm)
You mentioned concern re: ease of draw from that sort of rig and I wonder the same. Haven't trained enough with the Daytimer case yet. I feel the same re: fanny-packs as being obvious concealment devices, and a holster (regardless of high-carry, in-the-pocket, etc) still doesn't conceal the weapon. Just wondered how you got on with your search for a CCW alternative and would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks, sir.
(Sorry, gents...just realized my potential for shear stupidity with this post. :()
Yes, I've been carrying a Glock 19 using a Victronix tote ( LINK (http://www.swissarmy.com/TravelGear/Pages/Product.aspx?category=travelaccessorieslifestyle&product=35531&) ).
The Bible and Daytimer are both good ideas, but I wanted two things those didn't provide. First, I wanted to carry some additional things such as pepper spray, a small flashlight, a Swiss Army knife, and so forth. And second, I wanted to carry things that would visually misdirect people such that they didn't think I had a weapon.
The tote has 3 compartments. The one closest to my body has the firearm and the pepper spray. The thick area on the outside contains a pen, some cards, a PDA, the flashlight, and the knife. I use that compartment frequently so the various people I interact with are used to seeing the tote, and used to seeing me access harmless items. The outermost compartment has a small first-aid kit.
I've obtained an HK USP 9 SD due to its reputation as a superior firearm. I will ultimately add a match trigger at 4.5 lbs and tritium adjustable sites. The firearm fits in the same area as the Glock.
A further advantage to the tote is the strap. I can carry it over the shoulder or across the chest, which makes it easy for me to have both hands free when necessary.
Now...can I draw rapidly? No. But I lead a quiet life, avoid dangerous areas, and try to maintain some degree of SA, so I hope I won't need to extract the weapon in seconds.
Utah Bob
06-28-2009, 14:29
The only problem with a pouch is that while it conceals the gun, everybody who knows much about handguns (including cops and bad guys) knows you are packing. That can be a bad thing or a good thing, depending on the situation.
Yes, it's a problem. An IWB holster is a better concealment option; and yet, the downside is that I don't have the option of carrying around the other junk I want. If I use a holster and have the pouch for junk, I haven't gained anything. And, too, I prefer the full-sized automatics. A smaller firearm would work better for concealability, of course.
Ah, well. It's a journey, I suppose. Unlike so many here, I haven't carried a firearm as a day-to-day event. I need (or at least, think I need) to develop a certain comfort level with the act itself.
(Caution: sensitive readers should skip the following, lest it prove distressing)
I've transitioned from having a pistol I haven't cleaned or practiced with in years to some more reasonable practices. I now practice once a month and keep the firearm clean. A friend urges me to practice daily, with dry firing or other techniques - I'm not there yet.(end of NSFW material)
That's one of the many benefits of the good comments that have been provided. I can learn, and at least begin the transition to some degree of comfort and (perhaps) proficiency.
Thank you for your thoughts, Sir. They're very much appreciated.
Yes, it's a problem. An IWB holster is a better concealment option; and yet, the downside is that I don't have the option of carrying around the other junk I want. If I use a holster and have the pouch for junk, I haven't gained anything. And, too, I prefer the full-sized automatics. A smaller firearm would work better for concealability, of course.
With a good IWB holster, a full size handgun will disappear under a t-shirt. I use mine to hide a G22 and an even larger/heavier Para P14-45. Yes, smaller guns conceal better, but don't rule out a full frame weapon.
What other "junk" do you want to carry? I see you mention the things in your bag such as OC spray, knife, light, etc. There are other ways to carry those items without using a bag. I have one or two knives clipped to my pockets. I carry a Surefire light on my belt next to my spare mag, cuffs, badge, creds, etc. I also use house keys that have LED lights built into them. Not great, but better than nothing. I don't carry OC because I don't have to and my agency has a great policy where if I can use OC, I can use deadly force.
The thing about the bag that bothers me is you have "all your eggs in one basket" so to speak. If you get separated from the bag, or the strap gets cut, or the clip fails (this does happen), you have lost all your tools.
Another option I didn't see in the threat is a J-frame in your front pocket for times when your dress won't allow an IWB holster. Just some food for thought. Be safe!
I have an MTAC for a fullsize USP 45. It conceals as well as my USP compact with a CTAC. With a untucked shirt you can't tell. And you can't tell standing, sitting, bending over ETC. Somone on the team has one for his berretta and it even hides that gigantic thing.