View Full Version : Son Tay Wannabe
And I know who he is -
I was one of the volunteers that did not get selected for Son Tay. There was at least 300 who volunteered. We all went through an interview process - they told us they would get back to us if we were accepted - I never heard from them again. That was in August of 1970 (I think, I know it was hot that day, couldhave been September). We did not know what we were volunteering for - the only thing they told us was that we would be home for Christmas.
About a month later - I saw several guys from my company, on my team in fact (Adderly for instance) Pylant & Howell from our B Team. Saw them all at the Dentist Office - I asked them what was up - they were polite, but wouldn't say. The next day - those in A Company all came down & drew their M16 and boarded a bus - complete with all their team gear - I just happend to be there too. We finally found out that they went to Florida but that was all.
Didn't know what was up with them until November - I was on the Honor Guard detail at Pope - didn't know why I was there either (for a Sergeant E5, I apparently didn't know much). Anyway pretty soon Limos started arriving saw faces I recognized, Sec of Defense, Sec of Army, Several Senators. Soon TV crews showed up, then women and children. Eventually I learned that it was our guys who went to Florida seemed like a lot of hoorah for guys coming back from some training mission. The Band was even there.
Of course I knew about Son Tay it had been all over the News for the past 24 hours. Then as I was standing there I suddenly got smart figured it out. Duhh
Soon 3 C130s did a fly by, did a wing over and separated for landings taxied up and the band started to play our guys came out with their rucks and their M16 just like they were when they left but history has changed them all forever.
And I stood there in my best Class Bs, at Parade Rest with my M16 at Order Arms - taking it all in.
MITCH:
Your story fits quite a few that Ive met. This past October I was present at a farewell dinner for the last actively serving member of the Son Tay Raid, Im also proud to say he is a personal friend of mine.
He went on the raid as a young E-5, and retired as Command Sergeant Major of the U.S. Army Training Site, Camp Dawson.
In attendance at the Farewell Dinner, were about 5 or 6 of the Raiders.
I havent got their permission to publish names, so I wont. The complete story is in the upcoming issue of the SFA publication "The Drop".
ZonieDiver
03-21-2009, 11:12
Great story, Mitch - thanks for sharing. I've posted this elsewhere here, but I was a SP4 in SFTG at the time, finishing Weapons and prepping for Phase III. It was a very exciting time to be at Bragg and in SF (in any way...) when the Son Tay raiders returned.
Brave men all!
OpForKorn
03-21-2009, 20:03
A close friend of mine was interviwed for the Son Tay Raid, and seems to believe that the answer to a key question determined who went and who stayed. Other than that, he keeps quiet about the whole thing.
Team Sergeant
03-21-2009, 20:14
My first Team Sergeant said he was angered when this mission was planned, he said no one "in country" was allowed to volunteer. He also said later he understood why, absolute secrecy was required. Damn fine mission and mission planning.
I was in 12B training at FLW when the Raid took place and afterwards served with a number of Raiders whom I still consider great friends. I've even got a copy of the issue of Veritas dedicated to the Raid which I've managed to keep over the years. It was one of those events which inspired all of us youngsters coming into SF during that time period.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I met an old fellow in the Uwharrie about 15 years ago who told me he was a plank holder in 10th SFG and was one of the planners for the Son Tay Raid. If I remember correctly, he also stated he was at Lang Vei when the camp was over run.
I had no reason to doubt his story, but I have not yet been able to confirm it or deny. I still remember his name, but I am not going to post it here. If any of you more familiar with the players is interested, I will send you a PM with his name.
A close friend of mine was interviwed for the Son Tay Raid, and seems to believe that the answer to a key question determined who went and who stayed. Other than that, he keeps quiet about the whole thing.
I doubt there was any speical question - but what do I know, I didn't make it past the first cut. I feel it was like going for a job these days - for every opening, there are plenty to pick from.
Before the interview, they gave us a form to fill out - asked all the basic questions: MOS, Position on the team, special skills and qualifications, how long in SF, what's your ETS, Combat experience, Family situation, asked a few negative questions too - any Article 15s, ever been deinied a Security Clearance Upgrade, etc.
We held on to the form until we were called over for the interview - there were several interviewers, they had set up some tables at the back of the JFK Center Auditorium - and more desks up near the front. Eventually, I got called over; I was talking with an SFC whom I didn't know and do not remember - we talked for about 5 minutes - he took some notes - and then asked me about how good my commo was - I told him I was drawing Pro Pay - he seemed to like that. He asked about my ETS - it was coming up in December - I told him I was pretty sure I was reenlisting (I did). But that seemed to be a concern for him. He also circled on my form where I put down SADM qualified - don't know if that was a negative or a positve.
Anyway, he eventually said, OK we will let you know!
So, if there were any "special questions" they were probably reserved for the second cut.
Hard to believe, that was over 38 years ago - still seems like yesterday to me in some ways.
I had returned from 2 tours 5th grp at the time.
I waqs marking time in 7th Grp to DEROS in October.
I remember them asking for"volunteers" for an upcoming "event."
It seems like you had to have had one combat tour, be E6 or above and have at least a year left
My memories of Ft Bragg at that time were a bunch of pissed off youngsters who were piled up after SFTG with noplace to go.
SF was pulling out of RVN as were a lot of other units and slots were non existant.
There were guys with 2 years service who had been to about every school available as there was no other place to go.
Lots of shake and bakes, as well.
Morale was deplorable and drug use was a big deal.
I graduated in '67, and the changes I saw were dismal.
I was just finishing 4 years, all SF, and opted out when the time came.
I believe group was a rough place to be in the next few years.
Guess it got better for those who stuck it out.
I believe group was a rough place to be in the next few years.
Guess it got better for those who stuck it out.
It did - but not at Bragg!
Mitch,
I am impressed that you were there at that time and place and had the qualifications to apply for such a mission. I have met some truly remarkable men from that era.
It did - but not at Bragg!
FWIW - I was a medic in 1-7th until leaving for 3-1st (USASFT) in '73 and then 2-7th upon closing of the 1st until leaving for 1-10th in '76. I soon discovered that those who wanted to keep busy were and those who didn't weren't. It depended a lot upon the individual TMLDRs/TMSGTs and the individuals themselves. There were a lot of NCOs returning from years of being overseas and retiring, but medics and commo were in high demand and could keep busy...and I managed to stay gone from Bragg most of the time I was assigned there.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
1stindoor
03-23-2009, 11:55
Hard to believe, that was over 38 years ago - still seems like yesterday to me in some ways.
It's hard for me to imagine that was two generations ago. And I'm one of the older guys around the company area. I can remember my first T.S. (1990)talking about the raiders that were still around. One of which was the Co. SGM next door. First time I met him I felt a little awe struck.
DinDinA-2
03-23-2009, 12:13
Awe struck...I can relate to that. Returning, after 24 months in Vn, I thought I was pretty cool. I entered SF then, and my Company commander was a Son Tay Raider. Every one around me had experience and talent beyond belief. I kept my mouth shut and just listened and learned.
Back in 1979, and as a noob in B-2-10, I was given reading assignments on UW by my TS. One day, I was sitting in our Teamhouse, reading "The Raid" when a TS from another team came into the room.
At that moment, I was looking at a pic in the book where two guys are standing in front of the camera, one holding an M- 79. (As I recall.)
I thought to myself, "Damn! This MSG looks like the guy in this pic!" He saw the book and me comparing the pic in the book to him and he yelled, "Yeah! It's me Goddamn it!"
Lothar turned to me and said, "Mac doesn't like that picture". Anyway, I met a Son Tay Raider that day and another one, P. Poole at Mott Lake in 1981. Both excellent men.
Team Sergeant
03-23-2009, 13:28
Anyone got a list of name of the Raiders?
It seems like you had to have had one combat tour, be E6 or above and have at least a year left
At least two of these are not applicable for one of the Raiders I know: He was an E-5 on the Raid, and this was his first combat action.
There was a web site with the Son Tay Raiders manifest (cant find it now though) that listed the names, ranks and awards of participants. I believe there were two E-5s listed.
doctom54
03-23-2009, 13:49
http://www.sontayraider.com/ has a list of all who participate and have since passed away but I couldn't find a complete manifest there.
I have Benjamin Schemmer's book "The Raid". Appendix 11 lists all participants. There are two E-5s listed.
The Son Tay Raid - U S Army Personnel
Support Element
COL Arthur D Simons
CPT Eric J Nelson
CPT Glenn R Rouse
CPT Udo H Walther
SFC Earl Bleacher
SFC Leroy N Carlson
SFC John Jakovenko
SFC Jack G Joplin
SFC Daniel Jurich
SFC David A Lawhon Jr
SFC Salvador M Suarez
SFC Donald Taapken
SFC Richard W Valentine
SSG Walter L Miller
SSG Robert L Nelson
SSG David S Nickerson
SSG Thomas E Powell
SSG John E Rodriquez
SGT Gary D Keel
SGT Keith R Medenski
SGT Franklin D Roe
SGT Marshall A Thomas
Assault Element
CPT Richard J Meadows
CPT Thomas W Jaeger
CPT Dan H McKinney
1LT George W Petrie
MSG Thomas J Kemmer
MSG Billy K Moore
MSG Galen C Kittleson
SFC Anthony Dodge
SFC Lorenzo O Robbins
SFC William L Tapley
SFC Donald R Wingrove
SSG Charles G Erickson
SSG Kenneth E McMullin
SGT Patrick St Clair
Command Element Security
LTC Elliot P Sydnor
LTC Joseph R Cataldo
CPT James W McClam
CPT Daniel D Turner
MSG Joseph J Lupyak
MSG Herman Spencer
SFC Tyrone J Adderly
SFC Donald D Blackard
SFC Freddie Doss
SFC Jerry W Hill
SFC Marion S Howell
SFC Billy R Martin
SFC Gregory T McGuire
SFC Charles A Masten Jr
SFC Joseph M Murray
SFC Noe Quezada
SFC Ronnie Strahan
SSG Paul S Poole
SSG Lawrence Young
SGT Terry L Buckler
Support Personnel
LTC Bill L Robinson
LTC Gerald Kilburn
CPT Randel L Smith
SGM Minor B Pylant
MSG Jesse A Black
MSG Edgar C Britt
MSG Bernard L Rauscher
SFC Franklin Abramski
SFC James A Bass
SFC Archie Batrez Jr
SFC Robert L Dodd
SFC Charles M Erwin
SFC James A Green
SFC Bobby R Hansley
SFC Roswell D Henderson
SFC Frederick L Hubel
SFC Bruce M Hughes
SFC John R Jourdan
SFC Ernest R Pounder
SFC Aaron L Tolson Jr
SFC Burley W Turner
SFC Grady C Vines
SSG Elmer D Adams
SSG Rodger D Gross
SSG Larry G Stroklund
SSG David L Wilson
SGT Brian J Budy
SGT Michael G Green
SGT Robert R Hobdy
SGT John J Lippert
SGT Arlin L Olson
SP5 William F Dezurik
SP5 Lawrence C Elliot
SP5 Gary R Griffin
SP4 Christopher Casey
SP4 Frank J Closen
UH-1 Crew Members
1LT George W Williams
CW2 Ronald J Exely
CW2 Jackie H Keely
CW2 John J Ward
SP6 Larry C Boots
SP4 Alan H Wood
A bit of Son Tay trivia: Sgt (E-5) Buckler, was the youngest of the Son Tay Raiders. I believe this was his first introduction to combat.
Sgt (E-5) St Clair (Blueboy element) this was his first combat experience.
Both recieved the Combat Infantrymans Badge along with other awards and medals.
x SF med
03-23-2009, 19:25
A few of those names are blasts from the past. Amazing job for all involved.
Great, thanks for the list. I work with Joe Lupyak now, he's our supervisor up here in SWC TDD, Grady Vines was my 1SG over in the 509th for a couple months before I pcs'd, and of course Ronnie Strahan, and Jakovenko, who can forget those mugs :eek:, they where a....colorful sort.:D I've heard stories of paul poole holding a .45 upside down and shooting a plate at 50m when the blue light stuff was around.
Nice list
Here's a link to a list of awards for the Son Tay Raid.
http://www.psywarrior.com/stawards.html
I have a picture of me with a Son Tay Raider I just can't remember his name I got to meet him in Montana on my two week AT with 20th
Back in 1979, and as a noob in B-2-10, I was given reading assignments on UW by my TS. One day, I was sitting in our Teamhouse, reading "The Raid" when a TS from another team came into the room.
At that moment, I was looking at a pic in the book where two guys are standing in front of the camera, one holding an M- 79. (As I recall.)
I thought to myself, "Damn! This MSG looks like the guy in this pic!" He saw the book and me comparing the pic in the book to him and he yelled, "Yeah! It's me Goddamn it!"
Lothar turned to me and said, "Mac doesn't like that picture". Anyway, I met a Son Tay Raider that day and another one, P. Poole at Mott Lake in 1981. Both excellent men.
When I was in C-2-10, back in the late 70's, I went to JM school, MSG Greg McGuire was on the committee - he was already a legend then.
Mitch,
I am impressed that you were there at that time and place and had the qualifications to apply for such a mission. I have met some truly remarkable men from that era.
To be sure that we dont become too impressed the only reason that there werent 600 qualified guys volunteering, was that it was a onetime deal just one afternoon and the 300 who werent there would have been if they had gotten the word and they could have gotten out of Pine Cone Pickup detail that afternoon.
All the same thanks.
I met an old fellow in the Uwharrie about 15 years ago who told me he was a plank holder in 10th SFG and was one of the planners for the Son Tay Raid. If I remember correctly, he also stated he was at Lang Vei when the camp was over run.
I had no reason to doubt his story, but I have not yet been able to confirm it or deny. I still remember his name, but I am not going to post it here. If any of you more familiar with the players is interested, I will send you a PM with his name.
Thanks to Stras and Richard, they confirmed the individual I met was indeed an original member of 10th SFG.
ViolentZen
04-23-2009, 09:58
I am currently attending OCS here at Ft. Benning and we just had a Professional Development session with CPT Dan Turner. He told us the entire story of The Raid from his perspective including the selection, training and actual mission. He also covered the aftermath including the reunion several years later in San Francisco between the Raiders and recently released POWs. It is a truly amazing story and he is a very talented storyteller. It was by far the best class I have received here.
Mike, you are absolutely correct on the moral at Bragg. I am sorry to say I was one of those pissed off youngsters. With that said SF was a great experiance and I would do it all over again.
Dirt Farmer
07-10-2011, 19:43
Bruce Hughs was my top.
When I went to S.O.T. school I was told a lot of the guys were Son-tae. Awe shit I wish I could remember, big guy, blonde hair, supposed to carry torch for cutting locks.
Crap would someone from the suba team help me here??
Dirt Farmer
07-10-2011, 19:45
Oh yeah and the big guy with blonde hair used me for an example in the hand to hand pit at S.O. T.. hahahaha I did not suck, but I did go down. hahaha
Tiny, that's what they called him!!
mojaveman
07-10-2011, 21:10
Knew SGMs Lupyak, Strahan, and Jakovenko. Met MAJ Meadows one time too. All Son Tay Raiders and all very impressive people.
Cool group of guys, kind of like many here today at PS.com.
Thanks brothers for the Legacy.:lifter
tom kelly
07-11-2011, 12:40
I know two of the soldiers on the list who are still alive, served with one of them in The 1 SFG(Abn) from 1963 to 1965. Both still live in the Fayetteville area and are members of The SFA Chap.1-18. The both of them are the kind of people you like to be with. Regard's' Tom Kelly
I was with the 6th SFG at the time , they were looking for volunteers, no further info.
It didn't matter, we wanted out of Fort Bragg and in on some action.
Spec 4 Closen was a friend of mine then, I volunteered too and was soon given a reason for not being selected, orders for Panama were coming down.
Many many legends walking around there, met more in Panama !
B36reconman
07-11-2011, 18:56
We just lost one of the "Blue Boy element leaders" back in April and I was/am proud to have called him my friend..He was a hell of a soldier...MAJ (R) George Petrie..RIP
ZonieDiver
07-11-2011, 19:17
When I was at the Weapons FTX in Feb '71, Sgt St. Clair (by then an SSG), was in charge of one of the 'lanes' - can't remember which. He regaled us with stories. It seems as if the intel was very detailed, though dated. He was wearing a 6th Group flash at the time, though said group only had a month left. (If only I'd known that about 8th... or enough balls and knowledge to call Mrs A!)
I was in AIT at Fort Lost-In-The-Woods when the SonTay raid took place. When I got to SFTG in Jan '71, we were all SonTay wannabes...we all wanted to go on a mission like that one! ;)
Richard :munchin
mark46th
07-11-2011, 20:14
I was in AIT at Fort Ord. The raid went down on my 21st birthday...
Badger52
07-12-2011, 06:37
Assault Element
MSG Galen C Kittleson
How timely the thread resurges just finishing a nightstand re-read of Shadows in the Jungle (http://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Jungle-Scouts-Behind-Japanese/dp/0451225937). Most inspiring; I recall thinking, upon learning of the raid, "there's always a chance someone would, someday, try to come get me." That was pretty good fuel.
As an aside, I can believe the need for non-theater security/selection. My Dad confided to me before he passed that - after making his way thru the CBI, flying the Hump, and getting to Tinian - that there was quite the palatable level of resentment by some experienced operational B-29 crews that they weren't selected for the atomic missions. Not an uncommon sentiment.
Yesterday, I too had the huge privilege of attending CPT Dan Turner's presentation on the Son Tay Raid. It is easily the most memorable class I've attended, and meeting CPT Turner has been one of the highlights of my training.
Sir, if you read this board, thank you very much for taking the time to come and speak with us. Your stories - particularly concerning SGT Buckler - were both entertaining and informative. We took notes.
twistedsquid
07-13-2011, 17:04
spent some time talking to my dad last night...he remembers meeting dick meadows "on some drop zone at fort gulick"...says he had just come back from british commando school and was "one of those free fall guys"..."very professional and no nonsense"..."extremely competent"...remembers hearing about his battlefield promotion and then his death....they were in the 8th together...he also remembers seargent nickerson also from the 8th...i think both were on the assault team...for the record my dad doesnt remember where the hell he was during son tay...so says my dad