Obama's British 'Gift Gaffe' Not Reported By U.S. Media [Archive]

View Full Version : Obama's British 'Gift Gaffe' Not Reported By U.S. Media

swpa19

03-10-2009, 06:10

Now, this is the man that ran on the platform that he would "repair" the damaged done by President Bush to our most trusted allies.

Perhaps GB isnt one of our trusted allies?

Not only did BHO send his children to the WH gift shop to pick up a few toy helicopters for the Brown children, its rumored that the 25 DVDs he gave Gordon Brown were initially given him by Stephen Spielberg at Obama's inauguration. (re-gifting)?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2009/03/07/obamas-british-gift-gaffe-not-reported-u-s-media

Red Flag 1

03-10-2009, 07:25

Yet another view of just how shallow BHO really is.

It will be interesting to see how our British Ally deals with BHO should he be invited to the UK.

My $.02

RF 1

nmap

03-10-2009, 09:42

It gets even more convoluted. It seems that the POTUS devoted 35 pages of his book to his grandfather. Rhetorical question: I wonder what impact this will have on his treatment of our British allies?

Further rhetorical questions: Was the snub because the POTUS was tired? Or was it something more?

LINK (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23620970-details/Will+Obama+forgive+Britain+for+his+grandfather%E2% 80%99s+torture/article.do)

JMI

03-10-2009, 10:41

I wonder if any of the DVD's were movies about the Revolutionary War, like The Patriot with Mel Gibson, or the special on John Adams, or maybe even Revolution with Al Pacino. Now that would be bad. :D

JMI

03-10-2009, 10:42

It will be interesting to see how our British Ally deals with BHO should he be invited to the UK.

My $.02

RF 1

Knowing the Brits, most likely with class and understatement.

DbeforeD

03-10-2009, 11:03

Knowing the Brits, most likely with class and understatement.

Maybe, but he deserves a 'fish 'n chips' platter.

6.8SPC_DUMP

03-10-2009, 11:55

I stand corrected - this is a substantive issue. IMHO it would also be interesting to read about any Military or economic progress made with our close ally England.

Expatriate

03-10-2009, 12:33

I don't think there's any danger of BHO NOT being invited to the UK. Had Brown on the news the other day at a local Scottish Labor meeting right after he had returned from the US. Something along the lines of 'Well, he can't be here today, but I can say he is defianately coming' in the same manner one would talk about a store Santa Claus to a party of young children.
Brown, along with most of the British left, are still totally enamoured of BHO, maybe because he distracts from Brown's dithering with the economy over here, along with the fact he was never actually elected...

echoes

03-10-2009, 12:40

Sigaba

03-10-2009, 15:48

IMHO this is the type of tabloid reporting that diverts attention from substantive issues on what Obama's trip to meet with our top ally evolved.

6.8--

With respect, I would argue that such issues are critically important matters.

In the workplace, we pay attention to the cues we receive and the signals we send. We notice if a very busy person returns a call or email promptly or lets us wait. We notice if a meeting is held in a conference room, in a colleague's office, or in a boss's office. We notice if we get asked along when bosses are having lunch.:cool: We worry if we are dis-invited because a boss is joining a lunch party.:eek:

In everyday life, we also dance the dance. We notice how the meet up place, the movie, and the restaurant are picked. We notice subtle changes in conversation. We don't keep score but if a person is always slow to go for his wallet, we eventually notice.

In the corridors of the Ivory Tower, such exchanges are closely monitored. Does a professor invite you to call him by his Christian name? Does a scholar tell you the things you need to know (including "This [essay] doesn't work")? Does an instructor make students wait? Does an academic offer to let you read drafts of a manuscript, what you think of a possible hire, or what books you think he should use in his classes? (Or does a professor blow off your questions, violate his contractual obligations with undergraduates by changing a syllabus, not tell that top scholars in the field will be in the area until after they've visited, and recommend that you read books not because of their importance but because he's read them? I am not even a little bitter.:D But for the love of God, sir, don't you think your students would have benefited from attending a presentation by John Lewis Gaddis or a talk by Sir Michael Howard? Okay, maybe a little bitter.)

In personal relationships, the tea leaves are read and reread. The bones are thrown, picked up, and rethrown. Women will wonder 'maybe he's not that into me' when their phone calls are answered with text messages. Guys will notice something is wrong when the locks have been changed.

In diplomacy, heads of state and their subordinates notice things too. Did President Roosevelt laugh loudly at Premier Stalin's joke but just smile when Prime Minister Churchill offered a quip? Did President Eisenhower smile and shake Khrushchev's hand? Did President Clinton embrace Arafat (the citation eludes me at the moment, but there's the anecdote where Clinton practiced how to grip Arafat's forearm to make such an embrace impossible).

In the case of the special relationship, the fact that the current president's first call was not to Gordon Brown, that he gave DVDs that may have been regifted, and that he has returned to the British a bust of Churchill suggests that either the current administration is reconfiguring the special relationship so it is less than special or the current administration really needs some tutelage in protocol (or a combination of the two).

This special relationship with Great Britain is what made the decision for revolution so agonizing for the Americans. The special relationship is why the Federalist Party went bonkers, for lack of a better term, during the Second Anglo-American War (the War of 1812), and hit 'self destruct' in its advocacy that New England succeed from the Union. Not for nothing do many regard the War of 1812 the most unpopular conflict in American history. (Why not the Civil War? There's still a Democratic Party.)

The special relationship is why, even after two wars of global implications against the Americans, the British cultivated our friendship in the following decades. (Of course, they would have us believe that they were protecting us from ourselves and showing us how to behave like a legitimate Great Power.:rolleyes:)

In the aftermath of the First World War, American historians debated bitterly the reasons for America's entry into that conflict. (The term 'revisionism,' now a political slur, finds its origins in this debate.) Today, it is commonly agreed that the U.S. could have made a very strong case for intervening on Germany's behalf if economic factors were the primary considerations as revisionist scholars argued. (The echoes of this debate reverberate in the American consciousness to this day.) What titled the balance (and the fate of the world--IMHO, the Great War remains the pivotal historical of the modern world to the present day) was the perception that America and Great Britain are kindred spirits bonded by myriad ties (politics, political philosophy, law, religion, culture, and language).

This isn't to say that the special relationship is perfect. The British thought long and hard about intervening in the American Civil War on behalf of the Confederate States of America. (Counterfactually speaking, had such an intervention occurred one can't help but dread the trajectory of world history from that point forward. Would America have been able to face the challenges of communism, fascism, and Islamicist radicalism?) The British, at least from the perspective of the U.S. Army at the time, seemed to want to toss American soldiers into the abattoir that was the western front. Had the British held sway, it is hard to know when the allies would have invaded France during the Second World War. Had Franklin Roosevelt not been guided by the best and worst of his political instincts, the United Kingdom might still be an empire (though a much smaller one).

Yet still, the relationship endures. Prime Minister Thatcher provided sound support to her counterparts (especially Bush the Elder). Prime Minister Blair walked the line of political suicide in his support for Bush the Younger. And if the current president were in need of a friend, our 'cousins' are but a phone call away. (My two cents are that, as long as stars shine in the heavens, a sitting American president's first and last phone calls to a foreign leader should be to the resident at 10 Downing. YMMV.)

Is our president holding a grudge against the British for what happened to his grandfather? If such is the case, it is hard to begrudge him his misgivings. Yet I also hope that if the president is moved to moments of bitterness that he balance his perception of his family history with the memories of his nation's history. I hope that if he's moved to imagine the pain his grandfather endured, he also imagines the officers and crew of ships of the Royal Navy engaged in anti-slavery patrols (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/abolition/royal_navy_article_01.shtml) off the coasts of Africa.

Gypsy

03-10-2009, 17:33

IMHO this is the type of tabloid reporting that diverts attention from substantive issues on what Obama's trip to meet with our top ally evolved.

Oh really? Here, let me give you a synopsis of Sigaba's post. It's tradition for heads of state to exchange gifts that are meaningful.

The President chose DVD's for the PM and the First Lady chose to give plastic replicas of the helo to the PM's kids.

Then the President returned the bust of Churchill that has sat in the White House since 9/11.

Seriously? Really?

Please.

Now that's some "reputation repair" right there.

Tacky is about the cleanest word I can choose to use right now.

Red Flag 1

03-10-2009, 18:23

IMHO this is the type of tabloid reporting that diverts attention from substantive issues on what Obama's trip to meet with our top ally evolved.

Define "tabloid reporting" if you would be so kind.

As for substance, you and BHO seem to like to surf rather than dig deep, don't you?

Seems you were in this same spot a few weeks ago, if I remember correctly.

Have a nice day.

:munchin

RF 1

6.8SPC_DUMP

03-10-2009, 19:51

Heads: QP's and Moderators win.

Tails: I flip again.

Sigaba

03-10-2009, 20:03

FWIW, the intricacies of international affairs are easy to overlook not the least because works of diplomatic history can be brutally turgid affairs in which the narration of events is truncated for the sake of analysis. (Some historians say that 'description is not analysis' then wonder why their books go unread by a more general audience.)

Some time ago, I was a teaching assistant in a class on the history of American foreign relations. The issue of personal diplomacy came up. Some of the students phrased a skepticism not far from 6.8's comment.

For me, it was a deer in the headlights moment. I had just a few seconds to explain a complex point that had been, from my point of view, a 'given' for at least ten years--because of detente, personal diplomacy was a hot topic of inquiry during the 1970s and 1980s for students of the Cold War. I was uncertain if examples from the course materials would work. Their skepticism reflected either a lack of preparation or a lack of clarity in the materials themselves. Or maybe I just sucked at my job that day.

"It's like high school," I said. "It's like high school." The class looked up. So I winged it. Unfortunately, the Princess of Wales had recently perished so the infighting in the House of Windsor provided a convenient lateral--if not especially good--example.

Under other circumstances, the infighting of the 'royals' would be dismissed as absurd--a secondary story arc in an episode of Beverly Hills, 90210 that centers around Dylan's drinking. (What ever happened to the next James Dean?) Yet, a woman and her boyfriend get hounded by jackals, die in a crash, and the western world seems to come to a halt to grieve. (The cover of The New Yorker that week anticipated that magazine's response to 9/11.) While people spoke about the scourge of landmines, Britons question the legitimacy of a significant component of their way of life because Elizabeth II--in her youth a shining beacon of hope and courage in the war against fascism--seems out of touch with her subjects. Why isn't the Union Jack at half mast? Why isn't the royal family joining their subjects in mourning the princess? Where the heck is the Queen? Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. The flag was lowered, the Windsors mingled, the Prince of Wales walked with his sons, wearing the blue suit their mom liked. The people wept, then they applauded, and life went on.

The undergraduates, scribbling in their notebooks, nodded with what might have been an awakening comprehension. Or they were bored. Or maybe they were wondering "Is this going to be on the midterm?"

Dozer523

03-10-2009, 20:31

WTF is with you guys, lately?
It seems that everytime someone posts, somebody else has to spend countless electrons to say "Your wrong, and FY!" This thread is is about a gift! BFD! No one was there, no one saw the PM roll his eyes or his kids start to cry. PM probably hasn't even gotten a chance to write a terse "Thonk ewe".
How 'bout this scenario . . .
25 DVDs given BHO by one of America's finest and most popular directors (so they are probably pretty good movies) and (maybe. . . Probably) they're autographed. Do you have any idea what these might fetch on the market? -- Well, let me try. I love Baseball so maybe this would be like someone re-gifting every one of Johnny Bench's Topps cards. (YES Topps!, all the others are crappy posers and FY if you disagree.) Oh and the kiddies get to help Dad by picking out a present for the other daddy's kiddies? "Whoa, Cool Dad thanks for letting me help! I'll get him the coolest thing I can find, can I give to him myself? huh Dad, Pulllllllse."

Come On folks. This is a forum, discussion, friendly repartee. As TR says "we must agree to disagree, you know what they say about opinions * " (or something like that.) It didn't make me wrong (in the you're-going-to-hell sense), it just means we don't come from the same place so I see things differently on THAT issue. And it sure didn't mean I was oibligation to point out "how-wrong-you-are-about-saying-how-wrong-I-am".

Back in my foggy olden days there was a soldier in the platoon who was a FU. And I was one of the many who cut him no slack. One day, out of the blue, my first PSG said, "We need to watch X really close." I was "You got THAT right" "No, no. It is impossible for someone to be wrong all the time, we don't want to miss when he's right because he might be really, really right."

Then , again, I could be completely wrong. Can we play a little nicer?IIR, early on in my postings a guy here and I went three or four rounds via PM. And now he's one of my best friends.

*Even if what they say about opinions is "they are like A@@holes, everyone's got one and everyone knows one." $0.02

Penn

03-10-2009, 20:31

Is it going to be in the mid-term...........shot me now.........to funny

Sigaba

03-10-2009, 20:40

Is it going to be in the mid-term...........shot me now.........to funny

That question killed me every time I heard it.

I'd climb up on my high horse (well, more like a polo pony--I have issues with heights and smelly things: I'm a city boy) and think "What ever happened to learning for its own sake?" Someone put it in perspective for me "That's your challenge: to figure out ways to reach those kinds of students."

I am still trying to figure that out.

Richard

03-10-2009, 20:58

MOO as an experienced FAO - this gesture reeks - of a lack of SA amongst the staff and closest advisors to the POTUS - of the lack of historical grounding and SA by the POTUS himself, an obvious product of little more than the less-than-worldly community organizing politics of IL and Chicago - of the already malfunctioning routes of access between him and his decision makers - of a return of a more naive, less than worldly POTUS (e.g., Plains, GA, or Hope, AR) at a time when such a shallow, Hollywood parody of a West Wing may be disastrous - of an MSM whose 'watch dog' function is severely hampered by blatant idolatry - of a UK who understands how important the relationship is and are willing to shrug it off more for their benefit than for ours.

That being said - the telling will be in how they now handle this deceptively minor matter and, like some of the 'probies' who join PS, whether or not they will learn from it. :confused:

I'll wait and see...but stay tuned...it could get exciting. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

nmap

03-10-2009, 21:11

of a UK who understands how important the relationship is and are willing to shrug it off more for their benefit than for ours.

Excellent point, Sir.

LINK (http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb2009039_031657.htm?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+p age_top+stories)

Excerpt: A silent $1 trillion "Run on Britain" by foreign investors was revealed yesterday in the latest statistical releases from the Bank of England. The external liabilities of banks operating in the UK—that is monies held in the UK on behalf of foreign investors—fell by $1 trillion (£700bn) between the spring and the end of 2008, representing a huge loss of funds and of confidence in the City of London.

Some $597.5bn was lost to the banks in the last quarter of last year alone, after a modest positive inflow in the summer, but a massive $682.5bn haemorrhaged in the second quarter of 2008—a record. About 15 per cent of the monies held by foreigners in the UK were withdrawn over the period, leaving about $6 trillion. This is by far the largest withdrawal of foreign funds from the UK in recent decades—about 10 times what might flow out during a "normal" quarter.

Bill Harsey

03-10-2009, 21:37

WTF is with you guys, lately?
It seems that everytime someone posts, somebody else has to spend countless electrons to say "Your wrong, and FY!" This thread is is about a gift! BFD!

Dozer,
Yes this thread is about gifts.
It is my opinion that some here have got it right, the presidents return of the bust of Churchill was a diplomatic slap in the face that was beyond the pale.
Actions mean things. Subtle actions mean things too. Are you married? Then you understand.

None of this is personal, just my thoughts.

Edited to add this link to an opinion in Salon Magazine
When this woman is tracking the same direction some members of this forum are, there's something serious going on: http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/03/11/mercury/

Be sure to read her comments on Rush too.

Dozer523

03-11-2009, 19:13

None of this is personal, just my thoughts.
Well. . . I have to wonder about the returned bust. Of course it's not personal Bill. What he should have given him was one of your knives! BTW, If one of your knives were to be presented (no one would re-gift one :)) which one would you recommend? With a picture, please.

Bill Harsey

03-11-2009, 19:29

Dozer523,
Thank you for asking and here is what I would propose, the Applegate Fairbairn 5.5 inch blade, prototyped for Boker (by me).
This is because the knife came from the efforts of Fairbairn and Sykes, the British Commandos, and Col. Rex Applegate ( United States OSS) who worked together not that long ago.
This knife represents the combined history of both Britain and the United States of America in a time of war, like we are in now.

Also note, I'm just lucky enough to be the mechanic, I did not invent it.

edited to add, must have already shown the pic, won't let my post it.

Dozer523

03-11-2009, 20:05

Pete

03-13-2009, 11:53

Brazil is next.

Bumped to Sat. and miss spelled his name.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44987

bailaviborita

03-14-2009, 13:45

This might not mean anything, but good to know:

- The British press has been attempting as of late to stir up trouble that might not necessarily be there between the U.S. and UK. Basra, RC-South (Afghanistan), and now this- there seems to be a trend. The British officers I know are saying they are being put on full alert as far as strategic communication goes in order to make sure they don't do anything to feed the fire. In other words, there's more here than meets the eye...

- The new admin may have a reason to appear to politically snub Great Britain. France is rejoining NATO, we're trying to get more troops out of other countries, we're trying to rebuild relationships, and we're approaching problems differently (Russia, etc.). This might actually be a calculated move- and, even more intriguingly, done with Brit higher-up knowledge...

I personally doubt political maneuvering, even in a new admin, is all amateur hour. There may be more going on than we, or the media, are aware of...

Pete

03-23-2009, 03:42

Somebody please tell me this is satire or a joke.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-upsets-sarkozy-with-letter-to.html

I have not found a link to a "real" news site.

Richard

03-23-2009, 05:05

Somebody please tell me this is satire or a joke.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-upsets-sarkozy-with-letter-to.html

I have not found a link to a "real" news site.

How about the 19 Mar 2009 Le Figaro article?

Confidentiel : Barack Obama a écrit à Jacques Chirac

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualites/2009/03/19/01001-20090319ARTFIG00357-confidentiel-barack-obama-a-ecrit-a-jacques-chirac-.php

Richard's $.02 :munchin

sapper

03-23-2009, 14:38

Actions mean things. Subtle actions mean things too. Are you married? Then you understand.

This might be the most important thing ever said....;)

AngelsSix

03-23-2009, 19:50

What will they do next, give back the Statue of Liberty to the French?:rolleyes:

greenberetTFS

03-24-2009, 15:19

Somebody please tell me this is satire or a joke.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-upsets-sarkozy-with-letter-to.html

I have not found a link to a "real" news site.

Pete, I can't believe it either. :confused: Barry just has to get his s**t together. :eek: He can't keep doing this. He's making an a*s out of himself.........:rolleyes:

GB TFS :munchin

Dozer523

03-24-2009, 17:09

At least it wasn't reported that he started the meet and greet with
"Hola! Como esta usted?"

AngelsSix

03-25-2009, 19:27

Pete, I can't believe it either. Barry just has to get his s**t together. He can't keep doing this. He's making an a*s out of himself.........

And that surprises you? LMAO, the guy is a complete poser.:rolleyes:

koz

04-01-2009, 18:00

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/01/obamas-ipod-gift-includes-broadway-tunes/

Oh and the gifts continue.... But at least he did give her a rare book to go along with the ipod...

afchic

04-01-2009, 19:09

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/01/obamas-ipod-gift-includes-broadway-tunes/

Oh and the gifts continue.... But at least he did give her a rare book to go along with the ipod...

I have to say, I thought his gift was a bit more thoughtful than the one she gave him. Can you imagine having an autographed picture of that hag hanging around, staring at you all the time:eek:

Dozer523

04-01-2009, 19:52

Gypsy

04-01-2009, 20:57

Gypsy

04-01-2009, 20:58

It's the price you pay when your wife won't curtsie.

Yeah, but she fist bumps. :rolleyes:

ZonieDiver

04-01-2009, 23:13

Yeah, but she fist bumps. :rolleyes:

That's cuz she has bigger "guns" than her hubby! :)

Richard

04-02-2009, 04:51

I have to say, I thought his gift was a bit more thoughtful than the one she gave him. Can you imagine having an autographed picture of that hag hanging around, staring at you all the time:eek:

Don't forget that any gift over a very low $ amount would go to the American people - a pic of the QE2 is actually quite meaningful as it could remain with the O-bees and hang in the closet with the portrait of his mother-in-law they received one Christmas. This is actually a quite clever ploy by the QE2 as the O-bees (or a staff protocol flunky) will now have to ensure the portrait is in plain view somewhere in the White House whenever PM Brown or another British dignitary visits. Personally, I would rather have stared at the bust of Churchill. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Pete

04-02-2009, 05:11

Don't forget that any gift over a very low $ amount would go to the American people - a pic of the QE2 is actually quite meaningful as it could remain with the O-bees and hang in the closet with the portrait of his mother-in-law they received one Christmas. .....

Also, as I understand it - a signed picture is what the Queen gives all visiting politicians.

Richard

04-02-2009, 06:38

Also, as I understand it - a signed picture is what the Queen gives all visiting politicians.

Yes - for such 'unofficial' visits as this one was. The Brits refer to the royal portrait gift as The Glums because the QE2 and Phillip look so dour in it. ;)

IMO - if one wants 'the glums' - take a look at who Charles sleeps with these days compared with his previous companion.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

SF_BHT

04-02-2009, 06:45

Also, as I understand it - a signed picture is what the Queen gives all visiting politicians.

Yeah But She is a Queen and The Great O is just a Politician so her signed Photo is worth More.

Gypsy

04-02-2009, 17:41

That's cuz she has bigger "guns" than her hubby! :)

Yes, there's quite the buzz about her arms. :munchin

Sigaba

04-02-2009, 18:00

Yeah, but she fist bumps. :rolleyes:

Few things illustrated better the sloth of the MSM and admirers of the once and future president than their inability to ask someone who'd know that the bumping of fists is called dapping.

If I sound bitter it is because I am! It is my contention that I single handedly brought the practice back into vogue during the mid to late 1980s at the basketball courts in U.C. Berkeley's RSF. Guys had all these stupid fracking handshakes...the pulling of each others fingers that turns into a snap...the this, the that...just check the ball and let's play.

So I started dapping. I got it from watching Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he himself is not a fan of such celebrations. (Although we Lakers fan are as pleased as punch that he's learning to enjoy celebrating and to accept the fact that he'll always be The Big Fella.)

And here's a cultural insight. The dap is the practice of those who are too cool for school but also of the outsider who doesn't run with a crowd that practices handshakes. To which cohort do I and the president belong, take your pick.

/end rant.

Richard

04-02-2009, 18:09

...the bumping of fists is called dapping.

Yeah...but 'dapping' has all kinds of old-school cultural connotations - not all of them well thought of - and 'bump' sounds so...new, techno, leet...whatever. :p

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Monsoon65

04-02-2009, 19:24

Sigaba

04-03-2009, 03:57

Yeah...but 'dapping' has all kinds of old-school cultural connotations - not all of them well thought of - and 'bump' sounds so...new, techno, leet...whatever. :p

Richard's $.02 :munchin

All I'm saying is I want to take back the dap. Now, people would think I was emulating the president.

On the topic at hand, I think the standard for giving gifts should be that the recipient and informed observers will agree that gift reflects careful thought and reflection.

When dignitaries are involved, especially representing two long standing allies, the bar should be even higher. The president should be giving gifts that make even his harshest critics go "Wow, that is a tasteful gift!"

How about...loaning the original from the New York Public Library or giving a masterful reproduction of the attached image? It is speculated that the president harbors ill will towards the British because of what happened to his grandfather. But the image, depicting the HMS Penguin capturing a slave ship, is a reminder that the British have done great deeds furthering the cause of freedom.

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, but your truest friends closest.

(At the very least, Mr. President, stop letting your daughters pick the gifts. Yes, yes, they're adorable but you're in a different arena where the impulse to put finger paintings on the walls of your work area doesn't help.)

Blitzzz (RIP)

04-03-2009, 05:35

Richard

04-03-2009, 05:45

All I'm saying is I want to take back the dap. Now, people would think I was emulating the president.

On the topic at hand, I think the standard for giving gifts should be that the recipient and informed observers will agree that gift reflects careful thought and reflection.

When dignitaries are involved, especially representing two long standing allies, the bar should be even higher. The president should be giving gifts that make even his harshest critics go "Wow, that is a tasteful gift!")

OK, let's shake on it. ;)

As for the gifts, your points are quite valid and, for the most part, fairly accurate. However, the reality of gift giving among government officials - friends or enemies - is a sometimes nuanced, sometimes with an obvious political message, sometimes mundane, and sometimes very personal thing - dependent upon the giver, recipient, personal or political relationship, staff or department advising, etc.

As this was an 'unofficial' visit to the Royals, the iPod of show tunes enjoyed by QE2 and a rare songbook signed by "The King and I" composer Richard Rodgers, of Rodgers and Hammerstein fame, was actually a very thoughtful gift, and something the QE2 would enjoy.

Now, if this had been an 'official' state visit and the O-bees had gone to the UK expressly to visit the QE2, the levels of gift giving would (or should, anyway) have been much higher and a gift such as Sigaba suggested would have been an entirely appropriate one.

Here's an interesting piece on Don Ensenant, the Chief of Protocol for President Bush for 6 years, which gives a glimpse of how the Office of the Chief of Protocol operates; for anyone who's ever been involved in a JIB (Joint Information Bureau) at a Theater level, it doesn't take much imagination to realize how complicated such protocols can be...and especially at the POTUS level where everything is open to analysis and critique.

http://www.godeke.org/News/PhiAlumnus_Ensenat.htm

And having worked at both embassy and theater levels of government and having seen what goes into the choosing of such reciprocal gift giving, all I can say is that I am glad I was never anyone's Chief of Protocol and that the O-bees do appear to be learning after the earlier Brown fiasco.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Slantwire

04-03-2009, 06:54

Yeah...but 'dapping' has all kinds of old-school cultural connotations - not all of them well thought of ....

From Vietnam, maybe? Isn't that what they called some of the "soul brother" handshakes from that era?

Doesn't that also mean, "beautiful" in Vietmanese?

I found a rather different definition on Urban Dictionary (by way of Google). I don't think I'll post the definition or the link here.

afchic

04-03-2009, 08:12

OK, let's shake on it. ;)

As for the gifts, your points are quite valid and, for the most part, fairly accurate. However, the reality of gift giving among government officials - friends or enemies - is a sometimes nuanced, sometimes with an obvious political message, sometimes mundane, and sometimes very personal thing - dependent upon the giver, recipient, personal or political relationship, staff or department advising, etc.

As this was an 'unofficial' visit to the Royals, the iPod of show tunes enjoyed by QE2 and a rare songbook signed by "The King and I" composer Richard Rodgers, of Rodgers and Hammerstein fame, was actually a very thoughtful gift, and something the QE2 would enjoy.

Now, if this had been an 'official' state visit and the O-bees had gone to the UK expressly to visit the QE2, the levels of gift giving would (or should, anyway) have been much higher and a gift such as Sigaba suggested would have been an entirely appropriate one.

Here's an interesting piece on Don Ensenant, the Chief of Protocol for President Bush for 6 years, which gives a glimpse of how the Office of the Chief of Protocol operates; for anyone who's ever been involved in a JIB (Joint Information Bureau) at a Theater level, it doesn't take much imagination to realize how complicated such protocols can be...and especially at the POTUS level where everything is open to analysis and critique.

http://www.godeke.org/News/PhiAlumnus_Ensenat.htm

And having worked at both embassy and theater levels of government and having seen what goes into the choosing of such reciprocal gift giving, all I can say is that I am glad I was never anyone's Chief of Protocol and that the O-bees do appear to be learning after the earlier Brown fiasco.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

The "art" of gift giving is indeed a pain in the arse. I am the lead for a visit in a couple of weeks for a foreign Chief of Staff of the Air Force visiting our four star, as well as the COCOM. This morning my e-mail has been flooded with e-mails from SAF, as well as our protocol, and the COCOM's protocol on what gifts are being given by the foreign general, and are the gifts we first proposed still appropriate. I shit you not; the e-mails have been flying for the past 2 hours.

I agree with Richard in that for an "unofficial visit" I think the gifts the President presented were well thought out, and given knowing the Queen would enjoy them. I don't agree with his politics, but I don't believe the President is out to present himself as "better than" the heads of state he is visiting by the gifts he presents.

The Gordon Brown gift was a gaffe, this is not.

Sigaba

04-03-2009, 12:06

Richard and Afchic--

Call me a snob, but going the 'best of' or 'greatest hits' route, especially when it comes to musicals, is bad form. Would one give just chapters of literary master pieces or clips from cinematic classics?:eek:

My POV is that the iPod should have been loaded with the entire album of each of the Broadway shows, with the original casts, as well as the sound tracks of the film versions (if any), and any significant revivals.

Moreover, I'm of the view that the iPod should have also included the film versions of the musicals, all available artwork, PDFs of the available playbills, and that iTunes settings should have been tweaked to minimize compression, and I sure as heck hope that they threw in a pair of decent headphones. (Did anyone double check to see if the queen wears hearing aids?) All of these tasks would have been 'gimmes' for an administration that claims to be proficient with new media and digital technology.:cool:

My vision of this specific gift is that musical lovers, iPod fans/tech heads, as well as the president's admirers, skeptics, and harshest critics would have read about the gift over coffee, thought about the attention to detail, and then lit up the 'net.

"By George, I think he's got it!" would have been the gist of comments on Facebook walls, Tweets, live journal entries, and posts on MySpace. Apple's iTune servers would have been overwhelmed by people looking for the playlists. Whitehouse.gov would have crashed from messages saying "Mr. President, well done!" (Or some of us would just think "Maybe amateur hour is over. Maybe."):munchin

The enemies of civilization would have shook their fists in rage as they cursed the gift because they'd understand that it symbolizes what will be their ultimate downfall: the peerless excellence of American innovation and the power of Western culture.

Meanwhile, Queen Elizabeth II would have been singing "I'm going to wash that jihadist out of my hair.":D

Richard

04-03-2009, 13:05

On the serious side:

Since we don't know all of the reasoning that went into the selection of this particular gift, I personally think the book of Rodgers and Hammerstein classics - autographed by Richard Rodgers - was a decent enough gift unto itself...and a personalized iPod loaded with great performances of the songs of the book (along with a video of QE2s most recent visit to the US) a bit more icing on the sussig, so to speak. Unfortunately, after the recent PM Brown fiasco, this issue has garnered more attention than it probably should have.

I personally do not own an iPod - can't stand all the people walking around either zoned out on iPodian sensory deprivation therapy or seemingly babbling to themselves as they jabber incessantly into their BlueTeeth (?) - but in comparison, I think the QE2 got the better part of the trade. ;)

On the lighter side:

Now...it might be more fun to noodle the idea - based on his performance thus far - of what O-bee and Co, LLP, might offer as a gift to somebody like a Mahmoud Ahmadenijahd, Kim Jong-il, Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe? How about an autographed copy of Chaplin's The Great Dictator, a bag of JiffyPop, a six-pack of Bud Light, and a Spuds Mackenzie t-shirt? :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Sigaba

04-03-2009, 14:17

On the serious side:

Since we don't know all of the reasoning that went into the selection of this particular gift....

Your point is well taken. Just as Bush the Younger suffered from journalistic accounts that did not strive to tell the whole story and his critics were eager to go "Gotcha", his successor is experiencing the same dynamic. Hopefully, someone was taking good notes and, decades from now, the reconstruction of the event will reflect well on him. (Because it is much more fun to read about American politicians getting it right.)

I personally do not own an iPod

I agree that personal music devices (PMDs)encourage anti social behavior. For that reason I predicted that the Walkman was just a fad...until I got one.

In my opinion, the iPod is a luxury all music lovers deserve--provided one also splurges on good earbuds. (Not the least because they leak less sound to annoy others--it is always the folks with the most questionable taste in music who have the volume all the way up. Hopefully soon some folks will realize that Tupac Shakur is dead and at his best, he was mediocre.)

On the lighter side:

Now...it might be more fun to noodle the idea - based on his performance thus far - of what O-bee and Co, LLP, might offer as a gift to somebody like a Mahmoud Ahmadenijahd, Kim Jong-il, Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe? How about an autographed copy of Chaplin's The Great Dictator, a bag of JiffyPop, a six-pack of Bud Light, and a Spuds Mackenzie t-shirt? :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

I suggest that the president offer each an all expenses paid vacation to a five star resort. The welcoming greeting would go something like: "Welcome! Before you enjoy the amenities of this resort, we'd like you to share with you the great advantages of being a part owner of a time share condo on the other side of this island...."

Five hours later, they'd drag their tired selves to their suites only to find that the adjacent rooms were filled with Clintonian Democrats, including President Clinton and his wife. (Sandy Berger can go as long as security double checks to make sure that the bibles are still there before he departs.)

They'd be ready to sign any agreement put in front of them by the end of the weekend.

GratefulCitizen

04-03-2009, 22:07

Good thoughts there. I've been trying to understand how a sitting President could be so callous in the light of International diplomacy. I know they (the Pres and wife) receive many briefing on protocols. Why then such an intelligent couple seem to imply their own standards with a certain disregard for the leaders. I get the feeling he is attempting to belittle the other leaders in order to elevate his standing in the pecking order. A subliminal form of intimidation. Just Me.
I don't believe he is that inept or ignorant. Blitzzz

Concur, but I'm not sure it's a concious behavior.
Being an atrocious gift-giver is a behavior common to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.
Many of the President's behaviors point that direction.

Google "narcissistic personality disorder Obama" and see what pops up. :munchin
(admittedly, NPD would seem to be common among politicians)

Richard

04-04-2009, 15:46

Guess this says it all...:D :D ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Gypsy

04-04-2009, 17:20

Ahhhhh Richard, that truly made me laugh!