View Full Version : U.S. Army Officer Calls Obama an "Impostor"
Well...in the it was a good career while it lasted category...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
U.S. Army Officer Calls Obama an "Impostor"
Lieutenant says he won't comply until Obama proves his birthplace
A United States soldier on active duty in Iraq called President Barack Obama an "impostor" Monday, saying he would not comply with the president's military commands until he saw irrefutable evidence Obama was born on American soil.
"As an active-duty Officer in the United States Army, I have grave concerns about the constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama to hold the Office of President of the United States," Lt. Scott Easterling wrote in a letter to attorney Orly Taitz.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/us_world/US-Soldier-Calls-Obama-an-Impostor.html
There goes any hope for a career and he could be thrown in the detention facolity for this waiting charges/trial. I think he is also being used by this group also from what the article said. His SA is lacking. You have to pick you battles and pick ones you have a chance to win.
Dozer523
03-01-2009, 15:53
Is this the same loser who went public with how Candidate Obama dis-ed the troops at Bagram? Then when it hit the blogosphere he statred to remember it differently? Note: This is what happens when you dive into the shallow end of the gene pool head first.
Roguish Lawyer
03-01-2009, 17:25
Hey, sounds like a conscientious objector to me -- I thought Obama liked those guys . . . ;)
Whether I agree or disagree, "if" he truly believes Obama fails too meet the criteria I admire his conviction....but this stunt is going to work out about as well as me refusing to pay taxes because I don't agree. There is also the possibility that he could be using as an excuse to get out of the sandbox.
Regardless of his motivation he is now a liability to those around him which I would think is not a good thing with lives on the line.....and rumor has it that his example has prompted another fellow to suite.
I see Ft. Leavenworth as these mens future home.
uboat509
03-01-2009, 18:23
Pure jackassery. What could this guy have been thinking? Did he really believe that this could, in any way work out for him? It boggles the mind.
SFC W
Defender968
03-01-2009, 18:49
You know I give this Lt a full measure for being willing to sacrifice his career, and likely his freedom for what he believes, but I do definitely question his motivation and his strategy. I don't think this will go the way the Lt wants it to, and I also don't think it's going to end well for him at all. Looking at what he did/said, and where he did it, I don't think he or his lawyer thought this through more than one step.
If he was really seeking to force the POTUS to release his birth cert then he should have been looking to get charged with something that would give him standing to do so, (I mean how many lawsuits have been dismissed for lack of standing already?) had he refused some sort of order that originated with the POTUS I think he might have had a case where he would have standing, (any JAG's reading please correct me if I'm wrong) He'd be charged with Article 92 Failure to obey order or regulation, and he could have challenged the order by challenging the POTUS’s authority to give an order by challenging his citizenship and thus eligibility to be the POTUS, then he could have filed suit for the POTUS’s birth cert and maybe just maybe had a very slight chance of getting it, (I personally don't think there is a chance in hell it would have worked but at least he might have had a slight chance from a legal standpoint), as it stands I would bet they're going to charge him with Article 88 Contempt toward officials, and when he tries to use the defense that the POTUS isn't a citizen I think they'll say that isn't factually relevant and he won't have standing to try to force the POTUS to release his birth cert. Either way I think the Lt, his lawyer, and the group that lawyer represents on top of him are going to make this as public as possible.
You know it’s funny I told my wife this would happen, though I thought it would be some dirt bag just refusing to go to Iraq or Afghanistan, though from a PR standpoint doing it while in country will give him more credibility, if he was just refusing to go to war he’d be labeled a coward and wouldn’t have any credibility at all, not that he has all that much now.
Just my .02
Since when do LT's receive their orders directly from the CIC?
What could this guy have been thinking?
SFC W
If he received the lame reponse letters I received my my 3 Representatives it probably left him still questioning if anyone truely knows. Now in my case I was assured by Congressman Dennis Moore and Senator Pat Roberts that everything was A-Ok because FactCheck.org looked into it. Senator Sam Brownback said in his response that he was sure because FactCheck.org checked into it and added that Justices Alito and Roberts spoke with Obama about it.
Me personally I was hoping to be reassured that there was a process he went through, his Party looked into and that organizations like the FBI and NSA did background checks prior to giving him the keys....I am pretty sure you military folks with security clearences were subjected to more intensive scrutiny than FactCheck.org...
That leaves many people scratching their heads in bewilderment.....FactCheck.org? What about someone that deals with National Security?
I still don't know what to think.....but the guy is still screwed.
Defender968
03-01-2009, 19:49
Since when do LT's receive their orders directly from the CIC?
Obviously they don't get orders directly from the CINC, but a good lawyer might be able to argue something like a redeployment or deployment order stemmed from the CINC.
I don't think this is a winning strategy, I was just theorizing on a more legally sound route to achieve their obvious objective of getting the POTUS's birth cert.
alright4u
03-01-2009, 22:08
Since when do LT's receive their orders directly from the CIC?
His oath is Duty, Honor, Country- not CAREER.
If I run into him...I'll definitely go/run in the other direction.:eek:
Don't need the attention...
Stay safe.
Detonics
03-02-2009, 03:26
Perfectly stated, SFC W. He is an embarrassment to all Commissioned Officers.
Finish your contracted Oath of Office, take off the uniform, and then be a political hero.:(
I believe his reason for doing this is the possibility that he may have "standing" to make an argument in court. If he waits until he's in civilian status the courts have already found there is no "standing" to press this claim.
Personally, I applaud his personal convictions if this is being done for the reasons stated in press reports.
uboat509
03-02-2009, 03:49
Apparently this guy has signed on to a class action suit being circulated to military members. More on that here (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/).
On another note I have to ask why? Let's say that it somehow works and Barrack Obama is forced to step down. That means Joe Biden becomes the President. How is that in any way better?
Let's say that it somehow works and Barrack Obama is forced to step down. That means Joe Biden becomes the President. How is that in any way better?
The current order is Joe "Huh?" Biden, Nancy "Ozone?" Pelosi, Robert "Old as dirt--literally!" Byrd, Hillary "OMG!" Clinton, Timothy "What taxes?" Geithner...:eek:...and then Robert Gates. UB509 is correct and that's a pretty scary line of succession we've got to worry about under the current administration.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
...but as an leader of soldiers in a war, he must always ask himself the ultimate question: Will this hurt the mission and my soldiers?
Yes, he should!
REMINDER: Reality check - we don't know much about this bozo and--although the numbers are very small--not all officers or NCOs are leaders and not all officers or NCOs truly care for their soldiers or the mission. :mad:
Ever spend some time around a TRASHCOM? :eek:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
uboat509
03-02-2009, 08:45
The absolute bottom line is that it is not our place to be involved in this kind of political activity while in uniform. I did not vote for President Obama but he was sworn in and he is my Commander in Chief. I don't get to decide if I want to follow his orders or not. I wonder what this LT would have said if a group of servicemembers had drunk the koolaid in 2000 and decided that President Bush had "stolen" the election and therefore was not the legal Commander in Chief, or what if they decided to buy into the "Bush is a war criminal" crapola and was therefore not their President. Somehow I don't think he would have supported them.
Blitzzz (RIP)
03-02-2009, 09:10
We all swore to Up hold and defend the constitution. I suggest that for the more intelligent soldiers there will frequently be some conflict with "Orders". You also had to swear to follow orders. That helps with discipline. But I can guarantee the President doesn't swear to obey the will of the people.
Rremember that You are an American citizen first and (gasp) a Soldier second. There in lies a conflict To Obey orders to fire on fellow Citizen or "Obey". Blitzzz
Defender968
03-02-2009, 09:44
I understand his argument, but as an leader of soldiers in a war, he must always ask himself the ultimate question:
Will this hurt the mission and my soldiers?
I believe he is causing a distraction to his main responsibility, which is his soldiers and their mission. His timing is terrible and the replacements, as Uboat points out, will not be any better.
Based off his situational awareness, I think he should be leading the court case, rather than leading young men.:(
Rangertab you're SPOT ON! While he is standing for what he believes he is also causing harm to the mission and to not only his troops but other troops as well. He's going to be facing charges that's a foregone conclusion IMO which will take his focus off of his men and his mission as you said, but what's more his actions will cause his commander to have to focus at least some of his time on the administrative duties that will surround the charges that will be filed against the Lt. Now that means that some of the LT’s commanders other duties may not receive as much attention as they would have if he didn't have to deal with this, so not only are the Lt’s troops paying for this but his commanders other troops may be neglected as well and that's even more unacceptable! I can only hope he is not in a combat arms branch.
Unfortunately the reality is that this was inevitable IMO, because the question was never put to rest in the first place. I will admit that I am surprised it came from an Army officer, especially one in theater, I honestly expected it would come from AF personnel who were being deployed when I talked to my wife about it many months ago. This will happen in the civilian world as well, the POTUS is signing laws that will be enforced, I can guarantee that there will be civilians who will fail to follow those laws on purpose for a chance to have their day in court, and while that is a much more palatable way to go about having the question answered it also will tie up the courts time which could be spent putting truly bad people behind bars. And even if those civilians get their day in court I still do not believe their actions will be successful.
This all could have been avoided if the POTUS had just produced his birth certificate in the first place. :mad:
A sacrificial pawn...
http://military.rightpundits.com/2009/02/25/scott-easterling-obama-imposter-video/
Scott Easterling has joined Orly Taitz’s DefendOurFreedomFoundation. Taitz, an attorney, publicized Easterling’s comments and his participation in her lawsuit after advising him to seek legal counsel before speaking out about President Obama. She says “…he insisted on moving forward.”
According to Taitz, other lawsuits have failed with military as plaintiffs, but Lt. Easterling is on active duty serving in a war zone. She believes this military status will give him standing with the courts. Taitz says that some state legislators and other military have joined this new lawsuit.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
A sacrificial pawn...
http://military.rightpundits.com/2009/02/25/scott-easterling-obama-imposter-video/
Scott Easterling has joined Orly Taitz’s DefendOurFreedomFoundation. Taitz, an attorney, publicized Easterling’s comments and his participation in her lawsuit after advising him to seek legal counsel before speaking out about President Obama. She says “…he insisted on moving forward.”
According to Taitz, other lawsuits have failed with military as plaintiffs, but Lt. Easterling is on active duty serving in a war zone. She believes this military status will give him standing with the courts. Taitz says that some state legislators and other military have joined this new lawsuit.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I think the term Cannon Fodder is better.
He is going on a long walk and I figure the chain of command will slam him in a few days. They seam to forget when you a re serving you lose some rights and you have more responsibility.
Team Sergeant
03-02-2009, 10:25
One of the issues that chapped my ass when this situation was presented was the "court" deciding a legal voting American Citizen didn't have "standing" to challenge this issue in an American Court of law.
Personally I think we're lost our collective minds when we elect a president and all of his/her/it's (transgenders included) records do not become (Immediate) Public Domain.
But that's just me thinking out loud.
TS
Dozer523
03-02-2009, 11:01
A sacrificial pawn...
http://military.rightpundits.com/2009/02/25/scott-easterling-obama-imposter-video/
Scott Easterling has joined Orly Taitz’s DefendOurFreedomFoundation. Taitz, an attorney, publicized Easterling’s comments and his participation in her lawsuit after advising him to seek legal counsel before speaking out about President Obama. She says “…he insisted on moving forward.”
According to Taitz, other lawsuits have failed with military as plaintiffs, but Lt. Easterling is on active duty serving in a war zone. She believes this military status will give him standing with the courts. Taitz says that some state legislators and other military have joined this new lawsuit.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
'Insist on moving forward" and "fall on your sword" if you want. But remember, you have to die. Be sure it is worth it. Actually, he may wish that he did, actually, get to die. He will get to look back on this for a very long time . . . everyday.
'Insist on moving forward" and "fall on your sword" if you want. But remember, you have to die. Be sure it is worth it. Actually, he may wish that he did, actually, get to die. He will get to look back on this for a very long time . . . everyday.
I guess the way I look at this is if you are going to fall on your sword, accept the consequences of your actions. If he in deed does get him ass handed to him on a platter, I hope not to hear his squealing about the consequences of said actions.
When Lt Lee was going through his rig-a-ma-roll a couple of years ago the thing that pissed me off the most was not that he objected to being sent to Iraq. It was the fact that he was not willing to accept the consequences of those actions. He thought he should get off scott free because "he was standing up for what he believed". Standing up for what you believe, sometimes may mean surving time in prision. Have the guts to stand up for your convictions, no matter what it means. Otherwise it just doesn't mean much.
greenberetTFS
03-02-2009, 11:16
I guess the way I look at this is if you are going to fall on your sword, accept the consequences of your actions. If he in deed does get him ass handed to him on a platter, I hope not to hear his squealing about the consequences of said actions.
When Lt Lee was going through his rig-a-ma-roll a couple of years ago the thing that pissed me off the most was not that he objected to being sent to Iraq. It was the fact that he was not willing to accept the consequences of those actions. He thought he should get off scott free because "he was standing up for what he believed". Standing up for what you believe, sometimes may mean surving time in prision. Have the guts to stand up for your convictions, no matter what it means. Otherwise it just doesn't mean much.
Excellent point,afchic.............
GB TFS :munchin
This makes me sick. This woman put her children in harms way, IMHO, in order to prove a point. She may very well have a point to prove, but using your children in this manner is reprehensible IMO. What would have happened if she would have had a car accident on the way to Ft Benning? Would it have been worth bringing the kids with her, vice leaving them home with dad?
Honorably Discharged Soldier Reports for Duty With Kids
Monday , March 02, 2009
ADVERTISEMENTDAVIDSON, N.C. —
A North Carolina mother who reported for Army duty with her two young children in tow is meeting with her commanders to see what happens next.
Attorney Mark Waple said Monday that Lisa Pagan was scheduled to meet Monday morning with commanders at Fort Benning, Ga. Waple said she took her children along with her to the base for the meeting.
Pagan, who was recalled to the Army four years after being honorably discharged, drove nearly 400 miles and braved a Southeastern winter storm to report for duty Sunday at Fort Benning, Ga.
Waple said he didn't know if Pagan's case would be resolved Monday, but said the meeting represents "the next step toward some kind of resolution."
Pagan said she has no one to take care of son Eric and daughter Elizabeth, so she brought them with her. She has reserved a motel room for a week and doesn't plan to stay in the barracks.
"Them being away from me is not an option," she said.
Pagan is among thousands of former service members who have left active duty since the Sept. 11 attacks, only to be recalled to service. They're not in training, they're not getting a Defense Department salary, but as long as they have time left on their original enlistment contracts, they're on "individual ready reserve" status — eligible to be recalled at any time.
Pagan filed several appeals, arguing that because her husband travels for business, no one else can take care of her kids. All were rejected, leaving Pagan to choose between deploying to Iraq and abandoning her family, or refusing her orders and potentially facing charges.
Pagan, whose job was truck driving during her first military stint, said it would likely be Monday morning before she knows what happens next.
"I think our ultimate goal is to be honorably discharged," she said.
Master Sgt. Keith O'Donnell, an Army spokesman in St. Louis, said earlier that the commander at Fort Benning will decide how to handle the situation.
"The Army tries to look at the whole picture and they definitely don't want to do anything that jeopardizes the family or jeopardizes the children," O'Donnell said. "At the same time, these are individuals who made obligations and commitments to the country."
Of the 25,000 individual ready reserve troops recalled since September 2001, more than 7,500 have been granted deferments or exemptions, O'Donnell said. About 1,000 have failed to report. O'Donnell most of those cases are still under investigation, while 360 soldiers have been separated from the Army either through "other than honorable" discharges or general discharges.
O'Donnell said Pagan isn't likely to face charges, since none of the individual ready reserve soldiers who have failed to report faced a court-martial.
Pagan's husband, Travis, is staying behind in their home in Davidson to continue his job.
"He's very supportive. He feels the same way I do," Pagan said. "He never thought I would be called back to begin with."
In a telephone interview Sunday night, she said she arrived at Fort Benning after a scary, snowy drive.
Of her children, she said, "So far they're doing OK."
This makes me sick. This woman put her children in harms way, IMHO, in order to prove a point. She may very well have a point to prove, but using your children in this manner is reprehensible IMO. What would have happened if she would have had a car accident on the way to Ft Benning? Would it have been worth bringing the kids with her, vice leaving them home with dad?
Honorably Discharged Soldier Reports for Duty With Kids
Monday , March 02, 2009
Another MSM anti-military sympathy ploy now that there's a growing expectation among ( *?* ) for the band wagon to turn back in the other direction. I saw this on the evening news last night and thought, "Hey...if only AFChic's husband's 1SG had been there to help this woman develop a better Family Assistance Plan..." :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
uboat509
03-02-2009, 11:57
This makes me sick. This woman put her children in harms way, IMHO, in order to prove a point. She may very well have a point to prove, but using your children in this manner is reprehensible IMO. What would have happened if she would have had a car accident on the way to Ft Benning? Would it have been worth bringing the kids with her, vice leaving them home with dad?
There is more to this story. You can find some of it here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29441874/?GT1=43001). Long story short, she brought the kids because she didn't have a choice. Dad can't watch the kids because his job requires extensive travel. He will lose his job if he cannot travel and if he loses his job they will not be able to make the mortgage payment. I don't think she intended to drive through a winter storm to get to Benning but she had a report date to meet.
I feel for this woman. I personally think that the IRR is a concept that should have gone away a long time ago. I just don't think that it is reasonable to expect people to plan up to the next six years of their lives around the slim possibility that they might have to drop everything and a report back to duty.
SFC W
Defender968
03-02-2009, 12:17
There is more to this story. You can find some of it here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29441874/?GT1=43001). Long story short, she brought the kids because she didn't have a choice. Dad can't watch the kids because his job requires extensive travel. He will lose his job if he cannot travel and if he loses his job they will not be able to make the mortgage payment. I don't think she intended to drive through a winter storm to get to Benning but she had a report date to meet.
I feel for this woman. I personally think that the IRR is a concept that should have gone away a long time ago. I just don't think that it is reasonable to expect people to plan up to the next six years of their lives around the slim possibility that they might have to drop everything and a report back to duty.
SFC W
I completely agree with you the IRR is a bad system I would argue for many reasons. First and foremost for allowing things like this occur and bring discredit upon the Armed Services, second I personally saw the AF Reserves use the IRR as a crutch to avoid doing the right thing. We had many, many troops who misbehaved to the point they should have had charges brought against them but instead of actually bringing charges and then putting these POS troops out of the military they just transfer them to the IRR.
With this case I don't have an issue with what this woman did, she served her country, she left active service and got on with her life, when she heard she would be recalled she filed the proper appeals, personally I think they should have been approved, they were not but instead of bitching and moaning she reported on the date she was ordered to do so and took the kids along because she didn't have another option. She paid for a hotel room so her children had a place to stay. To me her behavior shows self sufficiency, she is doing what she has to do to, and that's more than I can say for a large portion of our citizens.
I really have to wonder if the military or the current political regime will look to prosecute this LT for treason. Though it does not fall into the confines of the definition; the way things are consistantly be twisted around by the POTUS and his lackies, it would not surprise me one bit.
I am not saying I support him or not. But given that there is an attack on our freedom of speech and the attack on conservative talkshow hosts because they dare to question POTUS, the lackies and the actions/decisions, I don't see what this LT is doing as much different. IMO He is exercising a degree of freedom of speech. Some may see his "questioning" as aiding and abetting the enemy but under the very definition of the word "treason"....actions/words that give unknowing and unintentional aid to the enemy does not constitute "treason". Now, is refusing the obey the orders of CinC, which is handed down through the ranks, an act of treason or is it just disobeying a lawful order?
According to the sites about the Lt., he was a contractor first (and was in the box) prior to joining the service...so I don't see (like some of you) him doing this as an act to get out of his duties. IMO He is; however, walking on a precipice and when he falls, it could really hurt!! It wil be interesting to watch this and see the outcome ... or will it die, like the so many requests from others to the legitimacy of the current president?
There is more to this story. You can find some of it here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29441874/?GT1=43001). Long story short, she brought the kids because she didn't have a choice. Dad can't watch the kids because his job requires extensive travel. He will lose his job if he cannot travel and if he loses his job they will not be able to make the mortgage payment. I don't think she intended to drive through a winter storm to get to Benning but she had a report date to meet.
I feel for this woman. I personally think that the IRR is a concept that should have gone away a long time ago. I just don't think that it is reasonable to expect people to plan up to the next six years of their lives around the slim possibility that they might have to drop everything and a report back to duty.
SFC W
I agree the IRR is an outdated concept that needs to be re-evaluated. My problem with this whole story is this: So she is paying for a hotel room for her kids to stay in. What happens IF the Army decides she will deploy? What happens to the kids then, seeing as how they are at Benning and not at home.
I can't imagine being in this woman's positions where she has no one she trust to take on her children, if need be. Lord knows, I have had to up and leave my daughter with either a friend or family member for extended periods of time, some as long as 15 months, on more occassions than I care to think about, when I was a single mom.
But I can not imagine a case where I would ever walk into my commander's office with her on my hip, to plead my case.
I can't imagine being in this woman's positions where she has no one she trust to take on her children, if need be. Lord knows, I have had to up and leave my daughter with either a friend or family member for extended periods of time, some as long as 15 months, on more occassions than I care to think about, when I was a single mom.
But I can not imagine a case where I would ever walk into my commander's office with her on my hip, to plead my case.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you were/are serving...while she on the other hand served, chose to get out (honorable discharge) and then along comes the backdoor draft...to me, that's a major difference. She should have been granted a waiver.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but you were/are serving...while she on the other hand served, chose to get out (honorable discharge) and then along comes the backdoor draft...to me, that's a major difference. She should have been granted a waiver.
I am not disagreeing with you on that point. Hence why I said I can't imagine being placed in her position, of having no one to turn to for help. I still wouldn't walk into the commander's office with my kids. Just my opinion.
...and then along comes the backdoor draft...
MOO - but I was drafted and everyone knew that if you were a US (draftee) you did 2 years active and then 4 years in the IRR - if you were an RA (volunteer) you did 3+ active and then the remainder of the 6 in the IRR - subject to recall at any time within that time frame. It was no 'back door' - it was and is what it has always been, a method of tracking experienced and healthy personnel in the event they might be needed again.
In 1973 we received a group of 100 guys who had all been drafted, served and honorably discharged, and then had less than six months to go on their IRR terms. They were called up, given a basic issue, and trucked up into the mountains of New Mexico where we linked up with them as G's for a couple of months long UW FTX in the Lincoln National Forest area North of Cloudcroft. They were not happy campers. After a week of training them--during which I had to medevac one who was an addict and in withdrawl with OBTW hepatitis--and using them on a successful raid against a USMCR Recon Plt base camp (USMCR and Canadian 2 Cdo were the aggressors), these guys really got into it and we had an enthusiastic bunch of G's for a couple of weeks. Once they had tasted success, our biggest problem was in tempering their aggressiveness and trying to teach them the patience necessary for UW. When they left us and we picked up a second group (not as good as the first), they were a pretty motivated bunch and we parted in good company. I'd wager they still talk about their experience to their families. :)
That being said, I personally think this mother's case was not handled with much empathy, common sense, or very professionally...but who amongst us does not have a tale or two :rolleyes: of a TARFU'd experience with either the personnel, finance, or supply branches of any service.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Defender968
03-02-2009, 19:12
Well it appears cooler heads have prevailed, but I have to wonder was it worth the bad press, how many good recruits did we lose over this? I hope someone has a talk with whoever denies or approves those requests, and explains the CNN test to them.
http://news.aol.com/article/mom-deployed/362777
MARTHA WAGGONER
RALEIGH, N.C. (March 2)
The North Carolina mother who reported for Army duty with her two young children will be discharged from the military, her attorney said Monday. Attorney Mark Waple of Fayetteville said it wasn't yet clear if Lisa Pagan would receive an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions. It also wasn't certain when she would be discharged.
The reason for the discharge will be that she doesn't have, and cannot have, an adequate family care for her two young children, he said.
"There is definitely some feeling of relief, especially since she has been led to believe that the command at Fort Benning is going to do everything to expedite this so she can return to Charlotte, North Carolina, with her children," Waple said of Pagan's reaction to the decision.
She has received no time line "except they are trying to process it as quickly as possible," he said.
He advised Pagan against talking to reporters until after the discharge is official.
Calls by The Associated Press to the Army were not immediately returned Monday.
Pagan was recalled to the Army four years after being released from active duty, which is allowed under the military's "individual ready reserve" program. But she says she had no one to care for her children.
Soldiers can appeal, and some have won permission to remain in civilian life. Pagan filed several appeals, arguing that because her husband travels for business, no one else can take care of her kids. Her appeals were rejected.
So she reported for duty Monday at Fort Benning, Ga., with her children, 5-year-old Elizabeth and 3-year-old Eric.
Earlier Monday, Fort Benning spokesman Bob Purtiman said Pagan reported to the Army post's mobilization center that prepares individual soldiers to plug into Army units already overseas or those training to deploy. He did not know how long she was scheduled to stay at Fort Benning.
He said Fort Benning has day care services available for Pagan's children while she's there.
Pagan is among thousands of former service members recalled after leaving duty since the Sept. 11 attacks because they're on "individual ready reserve" status, meaning they have time left on their original enlistment contracts and can be recalled at any time.
Master Sgt. Keith O'Donnell, an Army spokesman in St. Louis, has said that of the 25,000 individual ready reserve troops recalled since September 2001, more than 7,500 have been granted deferments or exemptions.
About 1,000 have failed to report, and most of those cases are still under investigation, he said. Another 360 soldiers have been separated from the Army either through "other than honorable" discharges or general discharges.
Back to the original thread.
I know this is WND but
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90574
800 year old law? How will the SC look at this one?
Defender968
03-03-2009, 08:03
Back to the original thread.
I know this is WND but
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90574
800 year old law? How will the SC look at this one?
They've got some interesting arguments that I think are valid, but basing it on a 800 year old common law, I'm guessing they're not going to be successful. I was pleasantly surprised though to see they had some folks of rank on the list, after all having a bunch of Lt's really wouldn't apply much pressure, but a couple of senators, colonels and a Major General, well that's a little more heat (not enough IMO to actually get the one to release his birth cert but the more heat the better in this case) I think the colonel who may face recall to active duty would have a good chance at having standing (if he actually get's recalled) which I'm sure he won't at this point, unfortunately currently I doubt the courts will say he has standing.
Back to the original thread.
I know this is WND but
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90574
800 year old law? How will the SC look at this one?
I read somewhere (I'll have to find it) that one of the SC Justices (I believe Roberts) wrote that in essense the People voted, a majority of the People elected Obama and that is all that matters. To do otherwise could put the wishes of the minority over the wishes of the majority.
It always comes back to the same conclusion.....Obama could all be put to rest in short order if he wanted too.
The more that I read about it and considering the responses from my Reps, it sounds like the selection process has alot of holes in it and a lot is taken for granted. It is almost like no one could have fathomed this ever being an issue.
Great thread...allot of valid points and counter-points, but as Gene Hackman once said...." We are not here to practice democracy.....we are here to defend it!"
uboat509
03-03-2009, 12:19
Another question needs to be asked, let's say, hypothetically, that this whole process ends with Preseident Obama being forced to step down. What would be the consequences of that act? Does anyone really believe that the uproar of this would be anything but massive, even violent? I suspect that that thought crosses the mind of any judge who looks at it.
SFC W
sonofabreach
03-03-2009, 13:06
Since when do LT's receive their orders directly from the CIC?
Exactly! can't spell lost without an LT. I do admire this poor LT's conviction but come on guy! You might as well have turned in your comission and citizenship. My advice to the LT: when you come home head North to Canada. You'll be safe in that weed smoking hippy country of a wart that won't get off America's back.
SFC W I just caught your point. IF infact President Obama is not American by birth, the whole political system will go to shit. I mean this election was infact the biggest voter turnout in history right? So much people believed that President Obama would do great things for America, and I think alot of skeptics were restoring their faith in the political system. If he is forced to stepdown theirs no doubt that the back lash would be huge! American's would be pissed, other Countries would look at this super power America as a joke and we in turn become very vulnerable...Then the Chinese invade and the next thing you know we have dim sum in our MRE's. God help us.
Loadsmasher
03-03-2009, 14:47
I mean this election was infact the biggest voter turnout in history right?
Wrong.
The liberal media would like that to be the case, but the numbers do not pan out. In fact only 1.5% more people voted than in the 2004 election, when the Dims were screaming at the top of their lungs that Bush had to be stopped. It was the highest turn out by raw number, but by percentage was lower than the 1968 Presidential election. Another case of the media deciding the truth and then finding (making) the evidence to back it up.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
alright4u
03-03-2009, 16:24
I highly question a man who spends many thousands on lawyers to hide his records. Why hide records if you are so transparent?
As to the women who showed up with her kids. Please do not tell me that after 9/11 you had no damn idea that you would not be recalled to AD?
I am damn tired of excuses and people playing victim.
The “wait until your out of uniform before you become a political hero” is a great quote. I am not uniform and just for this reason feel an obligation to object in any arena if that is what needs to be done, so it seems someone in a like situation would have pursued this issue if there was merit to do so. If the soldiers individual convictions were so strong that he had to do this, then maybe he had to do it. But something just doesn’t seem right about it all. What ever the case, why doesn’t our President just show us his birth certificate? I am ignorant on the issue, and would be surprised if he had any impediment to keep him out of office that was not vetted by now, but it just seems if people want that document they should get it. Then the whole thing is over.
AngelsSix
03-03-2009, 18:42
I highly question a man who spends many thousands on lawyers to hide his records. Why hide records if you are so transparent?
As to the women who showed up with her kids. Please do not tell me that after 9/11 you had no damn idea that you would not be recalled to AD?
I am damn tired of excuses and people playing victim.
I read you 5X5 on this one alright4u. Especially the part about people and their damn excuses!
uboat509
03-04-2009, 07:32
As to the women who showed up with her kids. Please do not tell me that after 9/11 you had no damn idea that you would not be recalled to AD?
Considering that less than a quarter of all IRR troops since 9/11 have been called up and the fact that we are drawing down our troop levels in Iraq, I don't think that it is at all unreasonable for her to have not known that she would be called up. On top of that what was she supposed to do? Wait for four years after she had been honorably discharged to begin having a family and a career?
SFC W
.... On top of that what was she supposed to do? Wait for four years after she had been honorably discharged to begin having a family and a career?.....
No, she was expected to "make do" as thousands and thousands of active duty people do now - both singles and married couples who have kids.
OK - she's had her 15 minutes of fame. I hope she saved all the newspaper clippings.
No, she was expected to "make do" as thousands and thousands of active duty people do now - both singles and married couples who have kids.
Apples to elephant dung!
uboat509
03-04-2009, 10:42
No, she was expected to "make do" as thousands and thousands of active duty people do now - both singles and married couples who have kids.
That's the thing. She's not active duty. She's not even guard or reserve. She served her active duty time honorably and got out four years ago. Active duty dual military couples and single parents do not "make do," they are required, by regulation, to have to have a complete family care plan or face getting booted out of the service. That is why my wife got out when she became pregnant with our second child. We did not have anyone we could trust who was willing to take care of our children for a year if we both deployed. This woman apparently did not have anyone she felt she could trust to watch the kids for a year if she deployed. She went through the legal appeals process and when her legal options were exhausted she reported for duty.
SFC W
Apples to elephant dung!
Exactly - when she was recalled she became just like everybody else.
People got a complaint with how all the sideline issues of stop loss and recall to active duty work ? Fine - have it.
But when she started all the "bring the kids to work" crap it was just that - Crap.
What? How many folks move around in the military, single and married, who's "First things to do list" includes finding daycare and schools for kids?
alright4u
03-04-2009, 12:38
Considering that less than a quarter of all IRR troops since 9/11 have been called up and the fact that we are drawing down our troop levels in Iraq, I don't think that it is at all unreasonable for her to have not known that she would be called up. On top of that what was she supposed to do? Wait for four years after she had been honorably discharged to begin having a family and a career?
SFC W
Playing the odds is a damn excuse.
The US Army is in sad shape when it needs to resort to calling back truck drivers from the IRR.
:munchin
The IRR obligation is part of the enlistment contract, correct? Not unlike the substantial increase in APR after a certain number of missed payments is written in a credit card contract, I would say. By signing a credit card agreement, is the card holder then legally obligated to make their payments at the higher APR if they missed the specified number of monthly payments? Is this contract void if the card holder gets sick, loses his job and income and is unable to make further payments?
sonofabreach
03-04-2009, 13:33
Wrong.
The liberal media would like that to be the case, but the numbers do not pan out. In fact only 1.5% more people voted than in the 2004 election, when the Dims were screaming at the top of their lungs that Bush had to be stopped. It was the highest turn out by raw number, but by percentage was lower than the 1968 Presidential election. Another case of the media deciding the truth and then finding (making) the evidence to back it up.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
thank you for enlightening me. It appears the media has pulled a quick one on me.
uboat509
03-04-2009, 13:38
The IRR obligation is part of the enlistment contract, correct? Not unlike the substantial increase in APR after a certain number of missed payments is written in a credit card contract, I would say. By signing a credit card agreement, is the card holder then legally obligated to make their payments at the higher APR if they missed the specified number of monthly payments? Is this contract void if the card holder gets sick, loses his job and income and is unable to make further payments?
But she didn't miss any payments. She served her active duty time honorably. This more like she paid off her credit card and then four years later the credit company decided it wanted another year of payments.
But she didn't miss any payments. She served her active duty time honorably. This more like she paid off her credit card and then four years later the credit company decided it wanted another year of payments.
Apples and oranges--and incongruent logic here, guys. JMHO--but this issue was mishandled (slightly by all parties involved), blown out of proprotion (greatly...primarily by MSM), corrected (belatedly but to the satisfaction of the parties concerned), and it's over. Now...there's work to be done out there...until the next time, I'd guess. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
alright4u
03-04-2009, 15:41
You are correct as this is over. I am afraid others will now come up with excuses/reasons why their being called back to duty is a hardship in the future.
To change the subject, I have a question for those who have served in Afghan recently. My brother in law on my wife's side has spent about 30 years in the TN guard. He twice before got out of orders to the GWOT and finally he is in Afghan with a NATO force of Bulgarians. His wife tells me he has told her how dangerous Kandahar Intl Airport is, and; he has her worried as hell. Thanks for any Info as to danger on the base. BTW he is a commo SNCO most likely in headquarters. TY.
Conrad Y
03-04-2009, 20:59
Try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R227Mho8Ymc
The Obama Deception
Interesting. :munchin
Try this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R227Mho8Ymc
The Obama Deception
Interesting. :munchin
I wondered if he is going to huck gold, water purifiers, survival seeds, solar panels and the Alex Jones Emergency Radio at the intermission? :D
Jones is like the James Brown, The Hardest Working Man in Tin Foil..... I'll give him a 'E' for effort.