View Full Version : Beheading of Paul Johnson!
Until recently, the terrorists have been basking on the moral high ground There has been colateral damage, mistaken strikes, civilian casualties and prison atrocities. However with the beheading of Johnson and Berg they have given up their high-ground. The world is seeing them for whom they are. IMHO for every wimp that cries "Give Up" there will be a hundred crying for justice and revenge. They will pay dearly.
Just as 9/11 galvanized us against Al Queda, the recent beheadings will reinforce our committment to destroy Al Queda.
BTW: If the terrorists are so moral and brave why don't they take off their foogin ski masks and show their faces to the world?:mad:
The Reaper
06-18-2004, 12:28
Media doesn't care about their criminal acts. Just any questionable ones we commit.
We are fighting this battle with one hand behind our backs. People have forgotten 9/11.
Where are the moderate Arabs and why are they not pointing the terrorists out to the authorities (US or Moslem)?
TR
I agree with TR. Another American is savagely killed and they still continue to talk about Abu Grahib (sp?) and the 9/11 commission. I am not suggesting they don't talk about other things than the beheading...but where is the outrage?
RIP Mr. Johnson.
BTW: If the terrorists are so moral and brave why don't they take off their foogin ski masks and show their faces to the world?
That's a million dollar question....
Ambush Master
06-18-2004, 19:44
Whoever locked this Thread Down, please contact me with your intentions !! A PM would be appreciated !!
The Thread Is Now UNLOCKED !!
Martin
The Reaper
06-18-2004, 20:37
I figured they were just kidding when they talked about how they were going to treat him like we did prisoners at Abu Graib.
I honestly hoped that was all they would do.
Maybe we should ask our Saudi "allies" if this is how a guest in a Moslem country is treated. Did Mohammed teach this? Maybe I missed that block in my Religion 101 class. Really makes me feel badly about our sleep deprivation and humiliation techniques.
We can see now the true savagery of these pigs. For those with strong stomachs, here is a link to the pics. Note that his hands were tied when they killed him.
F***ing Cowardly bastards!!
TR
http://www.drudgereport.com/jp.htm
I'm past feeling surpised by terrorists. I never thought Mr. Johnson had a chance, God rest his soul. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens here to really spread fear.
RIP Mr. Johnson.
Yes, like a stupid idiot, I clicked that link before TR posted it.
I feel so sick.
RIP, Sir Johnson.
I wish...
... I was a guy.
... properly trainined in SF
... unleashed
... armed with a finely-honed knife
What I saw would make saints cry.
You SF guys are really our only defense against these monsters. You are trained in alternative fighting methods that could combat these thugs. Lets face it. It is pretty damn hard to win fighting clean while the other person is fighting the dirtiest they can. God Bless you guys and continue to kick some ass.
What astounds me is that this didn't even make the news over here.
Solid
Radar Rider
06-19-2004, 03:37
Originally posted by Denny
You SF guys are really our only defense against these monsters. You are trained in alternative fighting methods that could combat these thugs. Lets face it. It is pretty damn hard to win fighting clean while the other person is fighting the dirtiest they can. God Bless you guys and continue to kick some ass. I agree. If only the leash was removed. The war on terrorism is so hamstrung; it has to be all or nothing.
The Reaper
06-19-2004, 07:07
I bet thet within three days, the media forgets this and goes back to whining about our misconduct in humiliating prisoners.
Some of the people locked up in Abu Graib have done exactly the same sort of thing, yet we continue to release them in droves.
Hope they have been rehabilitated!
TR
I have a lot more faith in the american people than some of you evidently do. This country isn't ruled by the nedia. They have an effect but if it were total the polls of public opinion wouldn't be so close. Most people are capable and willing to make their own decisions. The vast majority of our citizenry are of the type like the Halliburton employee who was released. They talk less shit but weild a heavy stick when crossed. Not only is the press free, but we are free to analyze and accept or reject what they present.
I restate my opinion that such acts may tip the scales of public opinion, not just here but in all of the free world. Though late, countries like Saudi Arabia are waking up.
TR: In Saudi culture, killing an invited guest in one's house (in this case country) is a serious insult to be met with death. The Saudi have already found and killed the murderer. They raided some 1200 homes to get him. Can you imagine 1200 doors in a neighborhood being kicked in here at home to find a killer? Sometimes I think the reason that we are so well liked in the world is because of our "monopoly" on morality: "The rest of the world sucks!!"
Until we make alliances and pacts based upon real trust and respect rather than: "You can use my toys but I have to be the boss and I'm taking them back if you cross me" types of alliances, the world will continue to have conflict.
NousDefionsDoc
06-19-2004, 08:59
I want one response to this - I want POTUS to walk out into the Rose Garden in front of every TV news station in the world, with SECDEF, VP, DCI standing behind him. I want him hold up a picture of the victims of these atrocities before man and God, look straight into the camera, very quietly say "Jihad" and turn and walk back into the Oval Office. Then Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War. That, they will understand.
Ambush Master
06-19-2004, 09:05
Let them taste the YARBOROUGH !!!
Team Sergeant
06-19-2004, 09:06
Originally posted by QRQ 30
The Saudi have already found and killed the murderer. They raided some 1200 homes to get him. Can you imagine 1200 doors in a neighborhood being kicked in here at home to find a killer? Sometimes I think the reason that we are so well liked in the world is because of our "monopoly" on morality: "The rest of the world sucks!!"
Sometimes it nice to be the king/dictator....
(While I was there for Desert Storm the king ordered "No war protests, by order of death" and guess what, no protests...)
The Reaper
06-19-2004, 09:17
I dare say that the Germans thought the same of themselves in 1933.
There is much to be feared from an efficient propoganda machine like the major networks.
You don't believe that, look at how firearms owners and Christians, to name but two are reviled in the media. It has had the effect of making a t-shirt with a gun on it a disciplinary violation.
I am familiar with Saudi culture, have Saudi friends, and sponsored Saudis at schools before. I daresay I understand them reasonably well, for a Westerner.
This entire anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-Western attitude is a violation of Mohammed's teachings, and Wahabbism/Jihadism has been supported or ignored by the moderates in the Moslem world for far too long.
The Saudis have been looking the other way and ignoring the problems with terrorists in their country in a bargain with the Devil, and now they are paying for it.
Most recently, in the attack on the housing complex where they singled out only non-Muslims, the Saudi security forces let the terrorists go, and the local media downplayed the significance of it, since the victims were not Moslem. How does this play with "In Saudi culture, killing an invited guest in one's house (in this case country) is a serious insult to be met with death."
Didn't look like it to me.
In response to your analogy, I don't see Americans hiding kidnappers and killers in their midst in the name of Jesus to the point where 1200 people have to have their doors kicked in.
Far more than 1200 doors are kicked in every day in this country searching for largely victimless criminals. Does that disturb you?
No monopoly on morality here. I am sure that the kidnapping and murder of a Saudi guest here would merit the same response. The kidnapping and killing of a group of Moslems in the U.S. would cause far more consternation and outrage in this country and abroad than the murder of the same number of Christians. We even passed laws to provide special protections to people who are minorities. Good grief, every swinging Richard up to and including the President had to apologize publicly for humiliating a few prisoners in Iraq. Where is the Crown Prince apologizing to us for this treatment of a guest of his?
In response to your analogy, I don't see Americans hiding kidnappers and killers in their midst in the name of Jesus to the point where 1200 people have to have their doors kicked in.
No, Sir, what I expect is evenhandedness and fairness in the coverage and reporting of these events, for the American people to recognize who their friends are and what has been done to us by evil SOBs in the name of a religion, and for those foreign leaders who would be our friends to act swiftly and decisively to treat the killing of an American IAW Islamic law and as a friend should react to the killing of a guest.
We did not bow down to the British press gangs, not the Barbary pirates before. I see no reason to try to appease those who would spill our blood today either. I choose to die on my feet, rather than live on my knees.
Refer to the pictures at the link (or 9/11 pics, or Daniel Pearl, or Nicholas Berg) if you are confused as to who the bad guys in this war are.
Examples of your alliances and pacts allegation?
TR
ghuinness
06-20-2004, 19:01
Heard this on the radio this afternoon.
Saudi police helped AQ and the kidnapping of Paul Johnson:
First document I could find: link (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13134301,00.html)
..but not being discussed in the media for some reason..
http://www.iht.com/articles/524747.html
Originally posted by ghuinness
Heard this on the radio this afternoon.
Saudi police helped AQ and the kidnapping of Paul Johnson:
First document I could find: link (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13134301,00.html)
U'm not going to say yae or nay. You are going to hear all kinds of crap for a while. Someone will probably say Bush arranged it to shock america into stronger action.
This is just the kind of sataement I would release if I were an AQ leader. "We are in paetnership with the Saudi".
Just look at the source, an AQ spokesman. Why wasn't it divulged that Johnson was kidnapped at a Saudi checkpoint when it happened!!
An al Qaeda website said supporters within the service supplied the group with police uniforms and
colt1911fan
06-21-2004, 00:45
Does anybody else find it rather convenient that they were able to find the killers right after he was killed? I am sick of this half hearted efforts and poor apologies on the part of the Saudi's. What has happened to "you are with us or with the terrorists."? I think it is fairly clear which side a large percentage of Saudi's are on. At least enough to make a difference. And that is what we need to go after. We don't need the half and half treatment. Let them decide which side they are on and then get on with it.
ghuinness
06-21-2004, 19:26
Originally posted by QRQ 30
U'm not going to say yae or nay. You are going to hear all kinds of crap for a while. Someone will probably say Bush arranged it to shock america into stronger action.
This is just the kind of sataement I would release if I were an AQ leader. "We are in paetnership with the Saudi".
Just look at the source, an AQ spokesman. Why wasn't it divulged that Johnson was kidnapped at a Saudi checkpoint when it happened!!
The claim may appear ridiculous but I suspect there is probably some truth to the story. I would not be surprised to learn there are AQ sympathisers within the Saudi Gov't.
With respect to the lack of information about how Paul Johnson was captured, there was plenty of information about the other murders the same day, at least in Stratfor (Jun 14).
The information provided, surrounding the circumstances of Kenneth Scroggs murder, suggest to me some degree of complicity with the Saudi Police and their "perceived inability or unwillingness to crack down on Islamist militants".
my .02
First, ask who stands to gain from such a claim. IMHO the AQ whose goal is to create further mistrust between us and other Arab countries.
What was the source of the claim? The same people who stand to gain.
As for weapons, is there one person amongst us who served on AD who hasn't known of incidents of weapons missing from the arms room or NG/AR armory? When I was in SFTG they found a sub-machine gun in a student's wall locker.
Uniforms? Get serious. They are available everywhewre.
Now suppose it did happen as the AQ said. Dows this mean that the entire Saudi Security Force has been infiltrated? Has our army become completly corrupt? Look at the incidents at Gitmo.
ghuinness
06-21-2004, 21:15
Originally posted by QRQ 30
First, ask who stands to gain from such a claim. IMHO the AQ whose goal is to create further mistrust between us and other Arab countries.
What was the source of the claim? The same people who stand to gain.
Everyone is engaged in propaganda.
If the Saudi Gov't makes some "claim", does that automatically give it more credibility? Not for me. I weigh the plausibility of the information vs other data and derive a conclusion. I don't eliminate all information automatically based on source (with the exception of the New York Times, but even they have their moments.....rare...). Are the Saudi denials of AQ infiltration any more valid? I don't think so.
Originally posted by QRQ 30
As for weapons, is there one person amongst us who served on AD who hasn't known of incidents of weapons missing from the arms room or NG/AR armory? When I was in SFTG they found a sub-machine gun in a student's wall locker.
Uniforms? Get serious. They are available everywhewre.
Pertained to more than uniforms. I could be mistaken, but AFAIK, obtaining uniforms and vehicles in Saudi Arabia is nothing like the West.
Originally posted by QRQ 30
Now suppose it did happen as the AQ said. Dows this mean that the entire Saudi Security Force has been infiltrated? Has our army become completly corrupt? Look at the incidents at Gitmo.
The article doesn't state "complete inflitration"; I don't see the correlation.
Respectfully.