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Richard
02-11-2009, 09:50
Pretty insightful synopsis of the situation--politically and militarily.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Afghanistan's Wicked Problems
Austin Bay
Wednesday, February 11, 2009

The war in Afghanistan now vexes Barack Obama and his administration.

It is a tough struggle, a Himalayan slog, but one President Obama himself claims is a "must win."

The problems afflicting Afghanistan and its violent neighborhood are maliciously complex -- "wicked" problems to use a catchphrase.

"Wicked" problems are dynamic and multidimensional -- intricate, constantly changing challenges that frustrate precise definition. As a wicked problem evolves, we can learn a lot about it -- useful knowledge informing constructive action. But the problem will still change in unforeseen and unexpected ways, seeding "unknown unknowns" that produce surprise. In a wicked problem like a war, surprise may be fatal.

A strategic planner I know says all problems involving human psychology have "wicked" elements. Here's the gist of a complex argument: as basic needs (food and shelter) are met, new needs (pension plans) arise. To paraphrase the Rolling Stones, we "can't get no permanent satisfaction."

Even semi-satisfaction would please most Afghanis. Since fall 2001, Afghanis have seen some incremental improvements, positive changes from the point of view of everyone but terrorist fanatics. The Afghan government has had some success in beginning to build formal institutions. The Afghan Army can handle some basic security missions, and it is improving, albeit slowly.

Slow is an Afghan affliction. Yet fundamental change takes a long time, especially when a war-ravaged society must expand the "human capital" of modernity -- produce the teachers, accountants, electricians, nurses, policemen and farmers who brace stable, prosperous communities.

Slow may be fatal when you rely on the American public's will. That is reflected by the ongoing struggle over Afghan policy within the Obama administration and Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill.

Obama appears to be committed to winning. During his campaign, Obama identified Afghanistan as "the right war." He is looking for diplomatic opportunities. He intends to send more U.S. troops and -- like George W. Bush before him -- demands more combat forces from NATO allies.

Key advisers warn that though deploying more troops serves useful purposes, adding tens of thousands does not guarantee "winning."

This is why some seek military operational changes that will promote economic development and political stability. The term "surge" gets used, though in hushed tones, for a number of Democrats deplored Bush's Iraqi "surge" and guaranteed it wouldn't work. Eliminating terrorist base areas in Pakistan is viewed as a potential "game changer."

During the campaign, Obama advocated an offensive strike at al-Qaida and Taliban enclaves inside Pakistan -- with or without Pakistan's permission. Cooler heads suggested such boldness (particularly if executed without Pakistani cooperation) would politically damage Pakistan's fragile central government and perhaps destroy it. Collapse in Islamabad would seed chaos from Kashmir to Baluchistan -- a "wicked" game changer.

The Pakistanis may eventually decide it is in their national interest, and in the interest of regional stability, to destroy al-Qaida's sanctuaries. The radicals threaten Pakistan, and more Pakistanis know it, which improves America's chances for a "diplomatic" elimination of the bases. The Mumbai, India, massacre by Islamist terrorists brought Pakistan to the brink of war with India -- a nuclear war. The Islamist takeover of Pakistan's Swat Valley and the subsequent destruction of the area seem to have backfired politically -- 11th century tribal values don't promote economic growth.

Eliminating the enclaves will definitely help -- but that does not "solve" Afghanistan.

Other options stalking Capitol Hill include leaving Afghanistan after crafting a "deal" that denies the use of its territory to terrorists who wish to attack the United States. Conceivably, this "surviving guarantor" might not be the current central government but could be a vast tribal confederation that includes the Taliban.

How does this come about? The "Sunni Awakening" in Iraq "delinked" Sunni Arab tribes from al-Qaida. The "Pushtun" Taliban have tribal interests "Arab" (foreign) al-Qaida ideologues don't share. "Delinking" the Taliban and al-Qaida would be a huge political victory, but what keeps a Taliban government from reneging once the United States withdraws?

The Bush administration came to Washington highly suspicious of "nation-building" but left convinced America was in a long war for the terms of modernity. Nation-building was a difficult, "wicked" choice -- slow, tedious, incremental and dirty -- but the best choice for the long term if you really want change.

CSB
02-11-2009, 13:44
Assume you want to help bring a third world country up to 1st world standards. Perhaps something as simple as a high school education for youth who have not been to school in their lives.

That's a twelve year commitment.
Start with kindergarden in 2009, expect to see your first graduate in 2021.


Assume you want an educated professional police force or Army.

Allow those 12 years for high school, thereafter two years trade college/police academy, at least three years of on the job experience ... you will see tangible results in 2026.

Can America hold fast to a foreign policy for that length of time?
That would be at least four presidential elections, eight congressional elections, two or three senatorial elections.

In opposition, AQ and Taliban need only a simple strategy: kill and destroy, build nothing.

Ignorance is their ally, and ignorance is easy to achieve.

Sure, we can try and accelerate the learning curve.
Remember the Army rushing things with "shake and bake" Sergeants from NCOCC in the late 1960's early 1970's? Enlistee/draftee E1 to Sergeant (E5) even Staff Sergeant (E6) in 29 weeks, never leaving Ft. Polk/Ft. Benning/ Ft. Leonard Wood.

Yes, it filled the ranks with men in uniform, with three stripes and maybe a rocker, but no one even pretended that they had the skill and experience to carry the full load of an NCO without considerable supervision and more experience.

This nation-building with Iraq and Afghanistan is a long term project.

Defender968
02-11-2009, 17:08
I just finished reading Koran Kalashnikov and Laptop, (which I recommend to anyone trying to understand the situation in Afghanistan) it goes very in depth into the challenges facing us in Afghanistan, we're going to be there a very long time IMO, that is if the politicians have the stomach to actually follow through with it.

Dozer523
02-11-2009, 17:24
We have no right to assume Afghans wants to be a "First World" Country.
I think most Afghans want to be left alone. They would like the lights to turn on, have enough food to feed their families, see their children grow up safely and go to school.
In the 1800's the English and the Russian First Worlders came and the Afghans didn't really benefit. So they tossed the First Worlders out on thier ass. In 1979 the Soviet First Worlders came and the Afghans didn't really benefit. So they tossed them out (with a lot of help from other First and Second Worlders). I bet they are starting to feel the same way now.

nmap
02-11-2009, 18:00
I doubt we will continue our involvement in Afghanistan much longer. In my opinion, we face three problems:

1) A bear market. The preceding bull market lasted 25 years, so the bear market should last 6-8 years. That means that growth, and hence tax revenues, will be under pressure.

2) Peak Oil. Likely to put a long-term drag on growth at the very least.

3) Kondratieff winter. (Included partly seriously, and partly in jest). A persistent economic cycle that lasts about 100 years - if valid, it suggests the next 20-25 years will have little growth.

Our various Presidents will face a choice between building U.S. infrastructure and Afghan infrastructure.

Will we improve our schools, or theirs? Will we maintain Medicare for our aging population, or build clinics there? Will we equip our police, or theirs?

If I were an Afghan, I don't think I would invest in a stereo...

incarcerated
02-12-2009, 00:07
[
A strategic planner I know says all problems involving human psychology have "wicked" elements. .



I KNEW that BHO would find a place for Mr. Deeds in the new Administration…

JJ_BPK
02-12-2009, 05:08
We have no right to assume Afghans wants to be a "First World" Country.
I think most Afghans want to be left alone. They would like the lights to turn on, have enough food to feed their families, see their children grow up safely and go to school.

Is this the key-stone to future foreign policy.

"There are people that do not want to be 1st world. "

The problem is culturally embedded in multi-generations and may not ever change.

These people are happy with their sheep & goats.

But as happy as they think they are,, without a 1st world education, they become pray to the likes of the Taliban.

It becomes a circle,, a merry-go-round,, round-n-round we go. Doomed to repeat the cycle forever..

The world need to accept, respect, develop, and implement COIN, UW, and FID strategies that can co-exist with these traditional 3rd world communities, without the ugly American side of TV's, Air-conditioning, McDonald's, sanitation, education, and Oprah..

I know,, I'm speaking to the Choir,, and we are at the bottom of the policy totem pole,, right next to the cement base,, under the cap rock....

I'm mumbling,, need more coffee...

Richard
02-12-2009, 09:58
I think most Afghans want to be left alone. They would like the lights to turn on, have enough food to feed their families, see their children grow up safely and go to school.

IMO that pretty much sounds like what most Americans living here in the 1st World--or most people living anywhere--really want. A feller could probably even get elected using that idea as a campaign platform in today's pol-econ atmosphere. ;)

Vote for Karim and the NPPPP (New Pashtun Poppy People's Party). A goat in every pot, two horses in every garage, three wives in every household, four kids in every school, five AKs in every compound, six kilos in every caravan...and a case of Coca Cola for every vote. The Afghan dream. :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Dozer523
02-12-2009, 10:29
Vote for Karim and the NPPPP (New Pashtun Poppy People's Party). A goat in every pot, two horses in every garage, three wives in every household, four kids in every school, five AKs in every compound, six kilos in every caravan...and a case of Coca Cola for every vote. The Afghan dream. :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

If he had a website I'd send him money and buy a tee-shirt, and a poster, and a book:)

ZooKeeper
02-15-2009, 18:06
three wives in every household,

This is the first thing I've ever read from you that I've ever disagreed with...I can barely handle one wife. Three would put me in an early grave. ;)

Great thread.

abc_123
02-16-2009, 00:40
This is the first thing I've ever read from you that I've ever disagreed with...I can barely handle one wife. Three would put me in an early grave. ;)

Great thread.

What are you stupid? You should not beat your sheep or goats to get them to listen for fear of injuring them, but if that is what your women need to obey it is ok to beat them.

You have much to learn.

Guy
02-16-2009, 22:16
I'd recruit the pershmegas for the mountainous regions w/SF as advisors....:lifter

Stay safe.