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View Full Version : Stuttgart SF Base Closing?


davidw142
02-11-2009, 04:04
I am stationed in Germany and attending SFAS in March. I have heard that the 10th group garrisoned in Stuttgart is returning to the US permanently. Is this true?

Ret10Echo
02-11-2009, 05:13
I am stationed in Germany and attending SFAS in March. I have heard that the 10th group garrisoned in Stuttgart is returning to the US permanently. Is this true?

First thing you need to do is complete your profile....

Secondly,
What do your attendance to SFAS and Stuttgart have to do with one-another? You seem to have skipped a big chunk of time there.

Stras
02-11-2009, 06:52
Quit worrying about politics and worry about your task ahead.

The big titted German frauleins will be there when you're finished.

csquare
02-11-2009, 07:48
Hey, I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse.

Right now you need to worry about computing the cost of your basic daily food allowance and ensuring your subsistence item stock-age is met.

Maybe, just maybe, in a couple of years you can worry about Stuttgart.

The Reaper
02-11-2009, 07:54
I am sorry, but that is all of the stupid questions and lazy, non-reading newbies I can stand for today.

I hope you pay more attention and do better at SFAS than you have here.

TR

Stras
02-11-2009, 11:06
I bet he heard about the SF Base Closing from that Major at the Pentagon.

Richard
02-11-2009, 11:17
If this guy makes it through SFTG there'll be a slot for him somewhere...there's always one of these rumor worrying yahoo's--NCO or Officer--on every ODA. :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

TommyGun
04-20-2009, 10:26
I am not SF, but I have served with enough of you guys to find this very funny...
As a leg that looks up to you guys, keep it up...

TG

Pete
04-20-2009, 11:49
I am not SF, but I have served with enough of you guys to find this very funny...
As a leg that looks up to you guys, keep it up...

TG

Tommygun - you are about this (holding two fingers close together) close to getting a new title under your user name.

Want me to squash them together?

Stras
04-20-2009, 13:58
Tommygun - you are about this (holding two fingers close together) close to getting a new title under your user name.

Want me to squash them together?

You'd have thought he would have figured out what happened to the original postee........

Ya just can't fix stupid!!!!:D

Pete
04-20-2009, 14:08
You'd have thought he would have figured out what happened to the original postee........

Ya just can't fix stupid!!!!:D

Not the same as the first poster :D but something he'd have to wear around for a while. Something that would make him think each time he went to mash the "Submit Reply" bar.

TommyGun
04-20-2009, 14:56
Point taken...at least I started off with the confession that I was not one of you, I thought that would have bought me some grace, but I bow out...:D

The Reaper
04-20-2009, 19:41
Point taken...at least I started off with the confession that I was not one of you, I thought that would have bought me some grace, but I bow out...:D

You are admittedly not, SF, but are posting in a 10th Group thread.

Hmm. What could be wrong with that?

TR

RetiredSOCS
04-22-2009, 02:51
If Panzer closes I'll be crushed. They can't close Rommel's former HQ, can they?

alfromcolorado
04-22-2009, 05:35
If Panzer closes I'll be crushed. They can't close Rommel's former HQ, can they?

Mythology.

Rommel commanded the 7th Panzer DIVISION. The 7th Panzer REGIMENT was in the area. The myth covers both Panzer and Patch (Kurmärker), depending on your taste.

Some interesting stuff on different Kasernen on these sites...

http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/USAREUR_City_Stuttgart.htm

Unfounded Rumors
Americans who have been stationed at Patch Barracks have passed along two storied that are without a basis in fact. One of these concerns an underground tank park located somewhere under the Kaserne. Actually, the only underground facilities are tunnels enclosing heating pipes that connect the boilers with some other buildings.

Another account describes Kurmärker Kaserne as Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's headquarters, and the Officer' Club as his former living quarters. Rommel had no connection with the kaserne and there is nothing to indicate that he even visited it. The rumor may have arisen from the fact that Rommel was once Commanding General of the 7th Panzer Division, of which the 7th Panzer Regiment was never a part.

Stras
04-22-2009, 06:56
There are tunnels under Panzer. I've been down two of them and seen the third. there may be more. There is supposedly a motor pool under the field by Panzer gym. It makes sense in the fact that this is the highest elevation on the kaserne, and the field never drains after a heavy rain.

I've always heard there is a motorpool under Husky Field at Patch. Would be a great relief to the parking problem if they ever opened it up and used it for parking. I've heard that the reason they won't open it is because the Nazis built it. Hey Sunshine, thoses buildings that you're currently working in and living in, yeah, Uncle Adolph had those built in the 1930's.

Our old RMO had a book with 8 X 10 photos of the kaserne in the 1930's-1945. It was donated to the SF Museum which was going to be made over the mess hall. I would have loved to get copies, but the book has disappeared over the years.

On a side note. At one time. SFODA 015 (MAROPS) could trace it's origins all the way back to ODA 11 (the first dive team), and back to ODA 1. I hope that the old photos are still in the team room Bar.

Richard
04-22-2009, 08:33
Yeah, the effin' Nazis were - like the effin' Japanese and effin' NVA - some burrowing fools. But, then, they had to be thanks to us. ;)

Coulda used one of those Rodenator Pro's. http://www.rodenator.com/

Richard's $.02 :munchin

mojaveman
04-22-2009, 09:31
There are tunnels under Panzer. I've been down two of them and seen the third. there may be more. There is supposedly a motor pool under the field by Panzer gym. It makes sense in the fact that this is the highest elevation on the kaserne, and the field never drains after a heavy rain.

I've always heard there is a motorpool under Husky Field at Patch. Would be a great relief to the parking problem if they ever opened it up and used it for parking. I've heard that the reason they won't open it is because the Nazis built it. Hey Sunshine, thoses buildings that you're currently working in and living in, yeah, Uncle Adolph had those built in the 1930's.

Our old RMO had a book with 8 X 10 photos of the kaserne in the 1930's-1945. It was donated to the SF Museum which was going to be made over the mess hall. I would have loved to get copies, but the book has disappeared over the years.

On a side note. At one time. SFODA 015 (MAROPS) could trace it's origins all the way back to ODA 11 (the first dive team), and back to ODA 1. I hope that the old photos are still in the team room Bar.

I was stationed at Patch Barracks in the early 80s. There were German civilians working there who were soldiers there during WWII. If you'd like a little history go to the Officers Club and look at the German 7th Panzer Regiment unit crest that is in large scale and positioned near the front door. There is also a large original mural of WWII German soldiers on one of the buildings near the front gate.

f50lrrp
04-22-2009, 10:45
In 1965, I was stationed at Reese Barracks in Augsburg. The entire Battalion (1/19 Inf) was situated on a quad, with a parade ground and vehicle park in the center. Under the parade ground and vehicle park were tunnels that led to a center area (swimming pool) . The entrance to the tunnels in the "A" Company barracks was through the arms room. The armorer used to allow the NCOs in the company store excess equipment and weapons in the tunnels during IG Inspections. Technically the tunnels were "OFF LIMITS" and the Armorer could tell the inspectors to F--- Off, if they tried to enter the tunnels.

RetiredSOCS
04-22-2009, 15:56
Mythology.

Rommel commanded the 7th Panzer DIVISION. The 7th Panzer REGIMENT was in the area. The myth covers both Panzer and Patch (Kurmärker), depending on your taste.

Some interesting stuff on different Kasernen on these sites...

http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/USAREUR_City_Stuttgart.htm

Poor Rommel, he never got to experience "soul food wednesday" at the officer's club. Oh well, my unfounded rumor made for great story telling.

mojaveman
04-22-2009, 19:02
Poor Rommel, he never got to experience "soul food wednesday" at the officer's club. Oh well, my unfounded rumor made for great story telling.

Rommel didn't but his son might have. Manfred Rommel was the Mayor of Stuttgart from 1974 to 1996. Every fall on the first day of the Canstatter Volksfest he would tap a large wooden keg and pour the first beer.

It was fun being a young G.I. in Germany...

tolzerman
04-22-2009, 20:16
Hey Stras,
I have some copies of those old photos of both Panzer and Patch. I was able to make copies of the negatives and had 4 x 6 prints made, all B&W naturally. Let me dig around in my boxes and see where they are then I'll try and scan them in for you. Could take awhile as there are quite a few of them. Was thinking about putting a photo history book together one of these days.

Richard
04-22-2009, 21:14
Manfred Rommel Jr. was the Mayor of Stuttgart from 1974 to 1996.

I met him in 1990 when I was down that way on business with the consulate, Harry Kasei (economist at Diamer Benz), and Rezo Schlacht (Green Forsitzender in the Landestag). He was amused by my Bayerischer accent and we had a nice chat over the discovery of a cache of Afrika Korps rum which we'd drunk at Bad tolz in the mid-70s. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Mitch
04-23-2009, 03:26
I spent a few weeks at Patch in 79 - in what I believe was called SOTFE back then. I flew in from Devens on a commercial flight into Stuttgart - not sure how we made that connection, but I know we did.

I was part of an advance team for Scharzes Pherd 79. Essentially, we were there to setup all aspects of running the EDH –each of us had a specialty – mine was commo. I essentially became the Comm Chief for the all EDH Commo – to include all phones, all RTT, all VHF and HF circuits, the AirFore E&E Net, the DZ coverage Net, ect. Also all the Commo support folks were mine too. It was good that I was a fast learner – because all I really was, was an E6 (P) right off an A-Team - had nver been in any commo unit in my life.

In order to do the work we needed to do – we need to have room to layout our maps, make lots of phone calls, and have someone standing close behind us to give us what ever we asked for or to at least be able to persuade someone else to give it to us. Example; Since I didn’t know beans about RTT – and we were supposed to maintain four RTT nets to communicate with Schulthorpe and a few other places – I decided I needed a complete RTT Platoon – with a snap of the fingers, I had one, it was just that easy. By the way, that man was Col Tyler. But the person we worked with, primarily, was MAJ Kellogg during those days there – what Kellogg couldn’t get for us – Col Tyler could – and if Tyler couldn’t get it there was an Admiral there too who definitely could.
By the way – walking around inside the SOTFE HQ was weird. All I can say about that particular place was that we were in the holiest of holies – Once inside all the security – it was amazing how little security there was.

One more thing, we didn’t have a car then, (there was only 5 of us). So we asked for one, not really expecting to get one. Kellogg said if we could get someone to pass the German Drivers Test – he could get us a car. I was nominated to take the test – I had had one before and more recently than anyone else – I was also the lowest ranking person there. So, I got a guide book –read it –walked on down to the place to take the test – and took it. I passed. Kellogg was shocked – he really didn’t think anyone could pass it. So – he gave us a Black Ford Galaxy 500 – with a big V8 engine. We also got all the free gas we wanted. From that moment on – we were never around there anymore after retreat. We nicknamed the car the Black Mariah – no one messed with the Black Mariah.

mojaveman
04-23-2009, 11:49
I spent a few weeks at Patch in 79 - in what I believe was called SOTFE back then. I flew in from Devens on a commercial flight into Stuttgart - not sure how we made that connection, but I know we did.

I was part of an advance team for Scharzes Pherd 79. Essentially, we were there to setup all aspects of running the EDH –each of us had a specialty – mine was commo. I essentially became the Comm Chief for the all EDH Commo – to include all phones, all RTT, all VHF and HF circuits, the AirFore E&E Net, the DZ coverage Net, ect. Also all the Commo support folks were mine too. It was good that I was a fast learner – because all I really was, was an E6 (P) right off an A-Team - had nver been in any commo unit in my life.

In order to do the work we needed to do – we need to have room to layout our maps, make lots of phone calls, and have someone standing close behind us to give us what ever we asked for or to at least be able to persuade someone else to give it to us. Example; Since I didn’t know beans about RTT – and we were supposed to maintain four RTT nets to communicate with Schulthorpe and a few other places – I decided I needed a complete RTT Platoon – with a snap of the fingers, I had one, it was just that easy. By the way, that man was Col Tyler. But the person we worked with, primarily, was MAJ Kellogg during those days there – what Kellogg couldn’t get for us – Col Tyler could – and if Tyler couldn’t get it there was an Admiral there too who definitely could.
By the way – walking around inside the SOTFE HQ was weird. All I can say about that particular place was that we were in the holiest of holies – Once inside all the security – it was amazing how little security there was.

One more thing, we didn’t have a car then, (there was only 5 of us). So we asked for one, not really expecting to get one. Kellogg said if we could get someone to pass the German Drivers Test – he could get us a car. I was nominated to take the test – I had had one before and more recently than anyone else – I was also the lowest ranking person there. So, I got a guide book –read it –walked on down to the place to take the test – and took it. I passed. Kellogg was shocked – he really didn’t think anyone could pass it. So – he gave us a Black Ford Galaxy 500 – with a big V8 engine. We also got all the free gas we wanted. From that moment on – we were never around there anymore after retreat. We nicknamed the car the Black Mariah – no one messed with the Black Mariah.


Hey Mitch,

Did you mean Schwarzes Pferd? We had a team from 5th participating in that in conjunction with what we were doing in Morocco in '85. I distinctly remember the name because I was doing most of the communicating for the FOB. SOCSE was also there and set up enough communications equipment to take up an entire wall in the building that we were staying in. It looked like some pretty high tech stuff but in the six weeks that we were there they never got it to work right. I was present when the Air Force Techical Sergeant had to explain to MG Suddath why they weren't able to communicate with anyone. I'll give those guys credit for one thing though, they came with an equipment box full of booze and tobacco.

Pete
04-23-2009, 12:02
....explain to LTG Suddath ......

Blast from the past 'Ol Sudden Death.

The Reaper
04-23-2009, 12:18
Lots of things had to be explained to MG Suddath.

My favorite was when he (as the CG, 1st Special Operations Command) interrupted a briefing to ask "How many people are in one of those ODA things you are talking about.":rolleyes:

TR

Mitch
04-24-2009, 00:49
Hey Mitch,

Did you mean Schwarzes Pferd? We had a team from 5th participating in that in conjunction with what we were doing in Morocco in '85. I distinctly remember the name because I was doing most of the communicating for the FOB. SOCSE was also there and set up enough communications equipment to take up an entire wall in the building that we were staying in. It looked like some pretty high tech stuff but in the 6 weeks that we were there they never got it to work right. I was present when the Air Force Techical Sergeant had to explain to MG Suddath why they weren't able to communicate with anyone. I'll give those guys credit for one thing though, they came with an equipment box full of booze and tobacco.

Yeah "Schwarzes Pferd" that's what it was. You're lucky I didn't spell it Schwanz des Pherdes or Pferdeschwanzes or better yet "Schwarze Pherdesschwaenze you try and say that!

Enough of that black horse pony dong stuff.

Sounds like you nailed the commo I was trying to explain - one thing we didn't have in 79 was any SAT gear – I suppose that would have been nice – would have saved some real-estate. By the time I got to full strength, I had a 3 acre antenna farm - the Stuttgart Airport would not allow us to stray beyond a specified area - so it was challenging.

One nice thing - everything I had worked. Another thing I had to learn to do, that I had never done before, was to develop and run a message center - I finally gave up and moved a cot in next to my desk (in one of the side rooms of a gymnasium) just to keep everybody off my back.

Does anyone remember Snoopy’s? A good place to hang out – if you had the time.

mojaveman
04-24-2009, 19:14
Does anyone remember Snoopy’s? A good place to hang out – if you had the time.

Snoopy's?

That would be the drinking establishment at the Echterdingen Army Airfield. A lot of the pilots used to drink there. I wonder if it's still there?

sitfly36
09-24-2011, 22:05
That place was the place to hang out!
Takes you back to the 80's lol

Stras
09-25-2011, 11:43
That place was the place to hang out!
Takes you back to the 80's lol

Its still there too... still playing 70's and 80's rock... just don't take the wrong turn walking out of the place or you end up in the lake like one of our slightly inebriated brothers did one night.

MVP
09-26-2011, 16:07
If you are talking about the bar that was on Stuttgart Army airfield it is long gone. Most of the old buildings were removed in that area and some hangers were erected that are/were used by the USEUCOM VIP flight detachment.

SS

Tress
09-26-2011, 17:37
Originally posted by The Reaper:

Lots of things had to be explained to MG Suddath.

My favorite was when he (as the CG, 1st Special Operations Command) interrupted a briefing to ask "How many people are in one of those ODA things you are talking about."

Why does that not surprise me in the least?

TR,

Didn't he have a son-in-law that was in our Battalion when we were there? I know who it is that I am thinking about, I had heard that he was Suddendeath's son-in-law, but I was never sure. Always thought that if it was true that he had enough of a burden to bear without me asking about it.

Tress

The Reaper
09-26-2011, 20:00
Why does that not surprise me in the least?

TR,

Didn't he have a son-in-law that was in our Battalion when we were there? I know who it is that I am thinking about, I had heard that he was Suddendeath's son-in-law, but I was never sure. Always thought that if it was true that he had enough of a burden to bear without me asking about it.

Tress

He was a black Captain, IIRC.

Seemed like a good dude to me, and I felt the same way about asking.

TR

Tress
09-26-2011, 21:02
Originally posted by The Reaper:

He was a black Captain, IIRC.

Seemed like a good dude to me, and I felt the same way about asking.

TR

That is who I remember also. I worked with him once and thought that he was a great Tm Ldr. Ironic that a Captain in SF knew more about SF than his father-in-law, SOCOM Commander, but then again "Butthead" from 751 probably knew more about SF than Suddendeath.

With what you stated earlier about Suddendeath's remarks during a briefing, I am going to assume then that some of the other things that I heard about Suddendeath were more than likely true.

I know that when Capt. "E" left the Bn. he went to the 82nd for command time, but lost track of him then. Too bad he could not find a way to have his father-in-law choke on a turkey bone during Thanksgiving dinner or something.

Tress

mojaveman
09-26-2011, 21:12
Don't know if it's true or not but did hear a story that MG Suddath paid a visit to Det A in Berlin onetime and didn't like the mens appearence. They were on relaxed grooming standards but he told them that their hair was too long and that they needed to cut it. I guess he pissed off a lot troops after that one.

Also heard he was stormin' Norman's (Schwartzkopf) roomate at Westpoint.

Backwoods
12-10-2011, 10:45
There are tunnels under Panzer. I've been down two of them and seen the third. there may be more. There is supposedly a motor pool under the field by Panzer gym. It makes sense in the fact that this is the highest elevation on the kaserne, and the field never drains after a heavy rain.
.

I never knew that! Of course if I or someone on 13 had known about those tunnels we would have been down in those things for sure. The only thing I saw were reinforced trench lines over by the range.

As for pics, before I left A Co. we had re-hung the old German pics from WWII in the entrance with the pictures of the last teams from Bad Tolz. (Frames and prints of the old ODAs were courtesy of 13 team donations I hope they are still there.)

Bechorg
12-10-2011, 11:15
Pictures are still up. They are actually one of the last things I looked at before I ETS'd back to the states. Great mustaches.

MVP
12-22-2011, 10:50
Backwoods,

I think you are talking about the old hunting trenches dating back a few hundred years. Every few years a historian from Boeblingen will coordinate a tour of the trenches for the locals. Try contacting the Garrison PAO for more info.

MVP