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Max_Tab
06-17-2004, 18:22
Here is a good question for anyone who spent anytime in 10th Grp. What was you'r absolutely worst WET.

Mine had to be my first one back in 2000. We went up to the Flattops, near Vail. Well the snow line was really high (about 8,000 ft) and we knew we were going to have to walk all the way up to it, before we could get our ski's on. Since we knew we were going to have to walk we decided to go without our polks >sp< so we had to go extremely light. Mistake number 1-we decided to leave all the tents. Since this was my first WET and I had come from Hawaii I didn't know anything about cold weather, and the advice I was given was go with the NATO death slats (the name should have given me a hint) and since we knew we had a good slog, they said wear your Reichle's. That would be mistake number 2 and 3. Well morning one started out bright and beautiful and the B-Team dropped us off as high as they could get (about 6500 ft) and we started walking. That night we hit the snowline, and set up camp. The next morning we started skiing, about noon the weather hit. We ran into a stationary front that unbeknownst to us at the time would stay over us for the next 5 and a half days. We had a long ski movement to our final location and we just kept pushing through, setting up a differant camp each night. Well using hindsight, we should of stopped and set up camp and waited out the storm, but we kept moving. We were on average getting about a foot of snow a night. The final straw, was the 5th night of the storm. We had used poncho's to try and cover our snow pit, but it snowed so much it broke through the ponch and cover us in snow, and because we had so much snow that night the snow from the side of the pit caved in and covered a couple people who were in there fart sacks, one of the guys while trying to crawl out of his sleeping bag unzipped it and the snow came inside his sleeping bag, drenching his bag. Well the next morning there are only a few people who do not have signs of frost nip, hypothermia, or trench foot. The Cpt makes the call and the NG guys from Vail (HATS) fly in through the blizzard and pull us out. We recover for a day and then we go back out and finish up the exercise.
Of course for the rest of the time we have great weather.

QRQ 30
06-17-2004, 19:06
Preuming you mean weather my worst would have been "FTX No Snow". We were scheduled for ski training at Berchtesgaden but there wasn't enough snow. Thus a substitute FTX "No Snow".

We jumped into the Chiemsee area and it commenced to snow as soon as we hit the ground. The next morning we had to dig ourselves out of our poncho tents. It continued to snow for the next fourteen days.

Since you mention Colorado, this was a little before your day.:D

Max_Tab
06-17-2004, 20:33
WET is Winter Enviornmental Training, and yes I think that was before my time.

NousDefionsDoc
06-17-2004, 21:37
Here's one for you. I was a certified Winter Northern Warfare Warrior. LOL.

I grew up in southeast Texas. We had snow (never stuck) but I had never seen SNOW. I hate being cold. The Army in its infinite wisdom sent a bunch of us to Alaska in February to learn how to do this thing.

My conclusion - when its 64 degrees below zero and the hawk is flying, you don't need to worry about the enemy. He, like you, will be too busy trying to keep his cojones from freezing off to even think about an attack. And this was what I told them.

Wars are supposed to be fought in jungles and deserts, not the North Pole in the freezin season.

The Reaper
06-17-2004, 21:42
Unless you are fighting the Rooskies.

Germans learned the hard way about that.

TR

Max_Tab
06-17-2004, 21:51
Originally posted by The Reaper
Unless you are fighting the Rooskies.

Germans learned the hard way about that.

TR

Hell the Russian's learned it fighting the Finn's

QRQ 30
06-17-2004, 22:23
To tell the truth the worst time in Europe was other than winter. You could brush off the snow, but otherwise it was always raining and misting. Being constantly wet was the worst.

:mad:

QRQ 30
06-17-2004, 23:21
I know this is the 10th SFG Forum but let me recall my last 6 months in the army in 1977 while in the 7th SFGA

In January we started off with WET at Ft. Richardson, Alaska. Draging an akio across the tundra for over 100 miles was physically the most demanding. Even though the temp was minus forty and below, we striped to shirt-sleeves to keep from working up a sweat.

When we returned to Bragg we had a week and then deployed to Ft. Gulick, CZ for TET..

We returned to Bragg only to be inserted into Pisqah to get acclimatized for deployment to Korea -- MET(miserable environmental training). We deployed to Korea for a few weeks. I must say I am glad I was born 10 years too late. Korea was the most miserable environment I have ever experienced -- mud mixed with snow and not a level spot in the entire country.

We returned to Bragg and I was then deployed to Ft. Stewart. In six months: Alaska, Panama, Korea and finally Ft. Stewart.

Tuukka
06-26-2004, 11:59
Snow...

mffjm8509
06-26-2004, 21:28
I know this is "worst WET" but since were showing pics....

mp

mffjm8509
06-26-2004, 21:30
woops, thats a little big

sorry

mp

mffjm8509
06-26-2004, 21:34
thats better

mp

Sacamuelas
06-26-2004, 21:46
IF you want it with security bars over the faces... Team Sergeant.

Team Sergeant
06-26-2004, 21:54
mffjm,

As you can see, we have the best OPSEC trained dentist on the internet!

TS

Sacamuelas
06-26-2004, 22:17
LOL.... alright.. guilty as charged Team Sergeant #1. :o

I will delete my entire post when you say the word Team Sergeant #2. Was just trying to help resize and edit it for you.

Smokin Joe
06-26-2004, 23:08
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
LOL.... alright.. guilty as charged Team Sergeant #1. :o

I will delete my entire post when you say the word Team Sergeant #2. Was just trying to help resize and edit it for you.

Hey hey hey.....since when do virtual push-ups count? :D

Cool pic Jawbreaker.

Bill Harsey
06-27-2004, 11:02
Ok, This doesn't count but since your talking about inclimate winter weather. Logging thru the winter in the high Cascades could get interesting. One December it got cold enough that my cork (caulked, spiked) boots didn't stick in a big frozen buckskin log (bark had been knocked off). While running across the top of this log my boots didn't stick and I fell on my running chainsaw. I broke the handle bar off the saw to keep it from ruining a good rainjacket.

Firebeef
05-23-2005, 09:13
Ok..so I am just gettin to this...but I was reading the thread, and thought I had to put my 2 pfennigs worth in.

When 10th GP started the move to Colorado...our first WET was in Jan-Mar 94...and of course, having moved to Colorado to have access to the awesome terrain and extreme weather, on 3 January we merrily boarded busses and drove 10 hours to Camp Harrison, Montana, near Helena. (there was absoloutly NO griping, bitching or grousing...I swear to God!!) Of course, the snow was pretty sparse, so we eneded up after a week or so, bussing 4 hours a day round trip to Bridgers bowl, near Bozeman. That wasn't so bad. Our big "winter mass tac jump" ended up being a bunch of morons jumpin skis and snowshoes...into a brown dirt field and the temperature was about 60...good thing we didn't have any heat casualties :rolleyes:

The real scheisse happened when we went into our team festivities. We went into ISO (which was awesome, btw) and were given a mission which related to a real world scenario in an unnamed country on the Balkan peninsula. The only autonomy we were NOT given was our method of infil. Of the teams participating, our dart landed on Static line parachute infil. I guess S-3 had the air assets and by Gum...we were gonna use em!! ISO and rehersals went awesome....probably the best I saw....backside and backbriefs went incredibly well....everything was great until....

yup...there I was
.....Oh dark thirty...
MC-130 on the taxiway...
9 SF troopers gonna earn their pay....

Exited into the blackest darkest night I think I ever saw or quite actually.....didn't saw....LOL. At some point I lowered my ruck...which I think weighed about 12 or 13 lbs....oh OK....maybe 20lbs !! and not because I had any reference to where the ground was...I just figgered I'd rather not land with my ruck attached (been there, done that) I remember hearing my ruck hit.....and immediatley a tumbling and whooshing sound as my ruck was being dragged...before I made contact with the ground. this is gonna suc.... ouch! bang! boom!...and ....silence. I checked myself... all was intact, and I got my weapon outta my M-19 ....uhhh ya know... the canvas thing you put your weapon in....lol... anyways.... I did surveillance. I had seen a single parachute near me under canopy (i was second off the ramp) but had not heard anyone else "contact" the ground. I began quietly packing up my -1B, and off in the distance I heard some faint yelling, a vehicle start....and then again...nothing but the wind....fuck...the wind was hawking I realized....and it was probably around 10 degrees fahrenheit. My hands were freezing stuffing my chute into the kit bag. I was kinda on a slight upslope hill....no trees, and a few rocks which I began noticing...woulda really hurt if I had landed on them.....hmmm this wasn't the way the DZ had been desribed in ISO......imagine that!

I waited some more....I started doin small circular patrols around my AO to see if I could find someone else...damn it was hawking!! :confused: Nuttin! Suddenly I could hear people approaching...this was all tactical... we were in Badguyland as far as anyone was concerned....so I crouched down, weapon at the ready, and issued the challenge.. a gaggle of men approached....I could see it was the BN cdr, BN CSM and a couple other staff types... (this was the first "blind drop" we'd done in a while I guess and I guess they were the Gforce DZ party?!?!) the CDR, blew right past the password, walked right up to me and goes.... "who's this??" "Me" I replied...
"are you OK?" he asked? "Sure" i says.....he freakin hugged me....."OK" he says...."change of gears.... follow me, some of your guys are hurt." Things changed rapidly from that point. As it turned out...and believe me the next couple hours would take 5 pages.....but for brevities sake... I was the only member of the team who was uninjured....due entirely to blind luck. The 2 closest guys to the DZ were 400+ meters away....in the only 2 trees for probably 10 miles. Our Fox.....Spike, broke his leg in 10 places....and as far as I know...this was his final jump. Our Tm Sgt tweaked his back, our Team Ldr tweaked his knees...all 3 of them were exfilled....we Rangered on, and the 2 guys who had been hanging in the trees feet started screamin once we moved as the blood flow returned...and...
ENDEX. :boohoo The powers that be decided that a 3 man team couldn't do it. I dunno why....we had an Echo, a Charlie and a Medic....they were limping, I was fine, but I think we coulda Rangered on ....anyways.... thats my story....and I'm stickin to it. Gonna go hit the gym
:lifter

12B4S
05-24-2005, 03:40
One of mine, I mostly described in another thread awhile back.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5990&highlight=akios

WET is ANOTHER new term to me. I'm catching up though. ;)

There is something I didn't get around to in that thread. Before we headed out, we were issued a new piece of gear. The Bladder Canteen. The Army wanted it tested and seems we were the guinea pigs. We were told to leave our canteens behind and issued these things. I suppose they may have been the forerunner to today's 'Camelback'. They were around a couple quarts, designed to wear on your gear or with a shoulder strap. They were designed to be less bulky and lighter (especially as water was used). Another reason was 'noise discipline' no sloshing noise with half or one third empty canteens. They filled just GREAT from a faucet, spigot or whatever.

Try filling them up in the mountains in a small fast running shallow stream on skis, in a blizzard. Even off skis on a clear day. Your hand will go numb long before you get a couple ounces in the thing. We were also packing LRRPs... LOL. We just figured screw it. We found ways, but that thing was worthless. At least in a situation like that.

So, I'm wondering about these 'Camelbacks'. I don't own one, have checked them out in stores. I realize they have a much bigger opening and such. Just don't know how they would fill or workout in that situation.

Roguish Lawyer
05-24-2005, 11:45
Unless you are fighting the Rooskies.

Germans learned the hard way about that.

TR

Or the North Koreans and Chinese. Ask Trip Wire about that one . . .

The Reaper
05-24-2005, 11:48
Or the North Koreans and Chinese. Ask Trip Wire about that one . . .

But unlike them, we stopped the horde and held the line.

You could add the French to those who tried and failed though.

TR

Firebeef
05-24-2005, 13:05
But unlike them, we stopped the horde and held the line.

You could add the French to those who tried and failed though.

TR

2 part reply: you could write a novel of things the French have "tried" and failed at over the course of history. The only thing they seem to do and do well is point out other nations shortcomings.

In response to Camelbacks: yeah they are great, if you can fill them from a tap, or are gonna be in a rear area each night, but it is tough filling them on the fly, even with the wide mouths. Remember, they are built by civilians....for civilians, and filling from a stream "...ewwww, are we out of Evian already, Blake??" or during a blizzard off of skis isn't one of the things they had in mind in the advertising boardroom meeting.

.02 worth

lksteve
05-24-2005, 22:50
When 10th GP started the move to Colorado...our first WET was in Jan-Mar 94...and of course, having moved to Colorado to have access to the awesome terrain and extreme weather, on 3 January we merrily boarded busses and drove 10 hours to Camp Harrison, Montana, near Helena. some things never change...December 1977, 2/10 departed from Hanscom AFB in a near blizzard to jump into Camp Ripley MN for WW training (WET training for you FNGs)...seems like the BC watched alot of NFL football on television, and back when the Vikings played outside, it seems they always played in snow in December...so we geared up, had a Wx forecast predicting lotsa snow in Mn...had a telephone call that confirmed snow was on the DZ, so we had on skiis and snowshoes, rigged just like FM 57-220(?)...the door opened, i peeked out ( i was one of the JMs) and there was brown stuff everywhere...looked like dead grass...we jumped in, spent the next week and change on the one ribbon of snow they had for ski training and returned to four feet of white stuff on the ground at Fort Devens....

the absolutely worst WET i ever experienced was in Alaska, as a straight-leg infantry company commander...what used to be Jack Frost/Brim Frost, had been name Arctic Warrior...sholy hit, it got cold...the weather dropped to -40F as we began deploying and as soon as most of the troops got across the ice bridges on the Tanana River, the weather started getting cold...at places in the exercise AO, temps got as low as -85F, while the average temp during the operation was -65F...we had SUSVs for command and supply vehicles (a Norwegian contraption that looks somewhat like a tracked Gamma Goat)...folks left them idling to keep the engines warmed up, not realizing that the trannies froze up...i was out on the screen line with the scouts and was called to the TOC for a commanders' meeting...i borrowed a snowmobile from the scouts and rode back, (as i was not authorized a vehicle of my own)...we had been running the screen line for several days on skis and snowmobiles and were puzzled about the lack of any activity to the front...when i got back to the TOC, folks were mightily vexed that i had ridden a snowmobile (the Division Commander had declared the weather too extreme for such activities)...when asked what my troops were doing, i told them the AT platoon and scouts were on the screen line, we were doing okay, that i had shortened the OP time to four hours instead of eight...then the grown-ups were mightily vexed because, except for us, the remainder of the battalion was still in the assembly area (as was everyone but the scouts and AT platoon of 4/9 IN) hanging out in tents...seems no one bothered to notify us that the exercise, once we got everyone across the river, had come to a stand still due to the weather...i was told to cease and desist all outdoor activities until further notice, told that once i got back to the screen line to not ride a snowmobile until further notice and told to send someone back for hot chow and cocoa...the Hummers were having a hard time moving and the only vehicles i had were snowmobiles so it was determined that as long as i was the guy riding it, i would have to pick up the hot chow and cocoa, which by the time i made it the five or ten KM from the trains to the screen line was frozen food and fudgesickles...

it was an in-tents training exercise, although in all seriousness, 18 Canadian Special Service Force Regiment troopers died in a crash on Wainwright Army Airfield...seems the navigator of the RCAF C130 did not believe the atmospheric pressure provided by the tower (it was extremely high) and upon landing, the plane was too low, too slow, clipped the towers at the leading edge of the airfield and crashed heavily....

lksteve
05-24-2005, 22:53
Here's one for you. I was a certified Winter Northern Warfare Warrior. .tell me you posted that with a straight face... :D

12B4S
05-25-2005, 03:04
The guys that took out the 'Heavy Water' and plant in Norway during WW2 might attest to folks that are winter capable. ;)

Great question Steve........ Sir. :munchin

Abu Jack
05-25-2005, 05:35
I was on the same infil jump as Firebeef. I was one of the guys in the trees. The evaluator sometimes known as the Bridge Troll, and me were the last 2 guys out of the aircraft. We were the closest jumpers to the DZ, about 500 meters away. I figured out pretty quickly that I was going in the trees because I couldn't see anything but trees. I released the chest strap before I hit the trees. I rode my ruck in and bounced through some pine tree branches until I came to a stop. As it was pretty dark I didn't have a clue how high up I was, I wrapped a leg around a tree branch just in case the parachute didn't want to stay in the tree, although it seemed to be holding. Since this was a tactical infil I figured that the DZ party wouldn't be out to help anytime soon. As it was about 5 below out I lowered my ruck then jettisoned it. It seemed like it fell for a while before it hit the ground. Next thing I did was drop my helmet and pulled my watch cap out of my cargo pocket and put it on. Once that was done I deployed my reserve so I could climb down. This is when my problems started, it seemed like every suspension line on that reserve got caught on something. for some reason I was thinking that if I cut it some bean counter would make me pay for it additionally I knew I needed to climb down it to get out of the tree. After about 30 minutes of trying to untangle every thing I thought I was ready to go so I undid the waist band and the leg straps. The suspension lines were still tangeld so every few feet on the way down I would have to stop wrap my legs around the trunk or a branch and get them untangled. By the time I got close to the bottom of the chute I had been in the tree for about an hour. I hung from the bottom of the reserve and let go... and fell about 4 feet. I policed up my ruck and started for the DZ and along the way linked up with the Bridge Troll. 1 and a half hours after TOT we finally linked up with the DZ party. They were in the middle of trying to medevac the Team leader, Team Sergeant and Intell Sergeant and hadn't even got close to looking for anyone else. Fortunately me and BT were the last two to make it in. Oh by the way I couldn't feel my ftoes but I figured that after we started moving to the next linkup site they would warm up. Wrong. It was at least another hour before the injured were medevaced and we moved out. We moved about 3ks or so to a linkup with a vehicle. I still couldn't feel my toes so I said something to our medic Diamond Dave. He looked at them and started to warm them with his hands and that's when they started to hurt. BT the evalutator decided that things had snowballed to the point were he called Endex.

Firebeef
05-25-2005, 06:02
Dude

All I can say is....sucked to be you!! LOL. I still couldn't say for sure if your feet or your face was redder!

Yup...we fell from the sky, alright!

Airborne

lurp
06-18-2005, 10:36
I love snow :)

Just wonder if any of you have been on training in Norway, during the winter time?
how did you like that?

(posse pic)

lksteve
06-18-2005, 20:19
Just wonder if any of you have been on training in Norway, during the winter time?yes...
how did you like that?white fish, black bread, aqua vitae...been warmer, been colder...

MtnGoat
04-15-2006, 06:43
I just LoL when I read this. :D It was a bad one. SO I thought I'll add some PIX
Mistake number 1-we decided to leave all the tents. Since this was my first WET and I had come from Hawaii I didn't know anything about cold weather, and the advice I was given was go with the NATO death slats (the name should have given me a hint) and since we knew we had a good slog, they said wear your Reichle's. That would be mistake number 2 and 3.

Well I'l have to say not everyone did the Reichle thing. Becuz I remeber getting razed over me walking in my Booties for the first movement. But after that I had my Hard Lowes for the MVNTs. God what a good idea.

We had a long ski movement to our final location and we just kept pushing through, setting up a differant camp each night. Well using hindsight, we should of stopped and set up camp and waited out the storm, but we kept moving. We were on average getting about a foot of snow a night. The final straw, was the 5th night of the storm. We had used poncho's to try and cover our snow pit, but it snowed so much it broke through the ponch and cover us in snow, and because we had so much snow that night the snow from the side of the pit caved in and covered a couple people who were in there fart sacks, one of the guys while trying to crawl out of his sleeping bag unzipped it and the snow came inside his sleeping bag, drenching his bag.


Picture one.
Well the whole snow into your bag thing I thing it happen for 3-4 night at a time. To different people, some like monkey see monkey do. The I got tay piss becuz I forgot to unpack my piss bottle or FORGOT to bring one!! I had it done to me, and I had the Wiggy Bag. After that WET I got my Mountain Hardwear bag. Becuz the person MAX TAB is taling about had a North Face Down bag that did have much effect. The Wiggy's just couldn't take what Pain we put them through, well not has good as the two North Face bags(TS and our MEDIC had).

Well the next morning there are only a few people who do not have signs of frost nip, hypothermia, or trench foot. The Cpt makes the call and the NG guys from Vail (HATS) fly in through the blizzard and pull us out. We recover for a day and then we go back out and finish up the exercise.

We had our Chief light is hand on fire after spilling White Fuel onto it, he said it was better than trying to wiping it off.:confused: After that the CPT came over to me and DOC What do you think. IMHO - yes or just Stop moving. TS didn't want to stop so HATS came to in. Picture two :boohoo That night and the next were the wrose in the area for sometime from what HATS said.

Of course for the rest of the time we have great weather.

After 1-2 days back at HATS drinking beer and eating Pizza we re-inserted back into the Flattops for about a week more of fun in the sun.

I'll load the PIX soon

TFM
04-15-2006, 12:20
Sucks so bad you gotta love it.:D

SF18C
04-16-2006, 12:45
MtnGoat, I am not sure if this was the same trip but remember when CSM "Dracula" exited the van at high speed, cracking his skull on a mailbox or some other hard object? Then the Command staff flew to check up on him in the hospital and the BlackHawk hit a power line, crashing and injurying all on board. (By the way the route the helo took during the day was the same route my team was to use for a nigth enfil!) Also the MOST team destroyed a snowmobile hitting a tree trying to get to the crash site!


For me and the our comapany I would have to say that was our worst WET!

bost1751
04-17-2006, 00:03
I spent a few weeks in Dombas, in the early 70's. It was absolutely great. Firebeef, about going to Montana for ski training. sounds like the 10th could have learned from the 2/1st about that situation. The same thing happened to them back in the early 90's. In all the years the 10th went to ski training, and scheduled it the same time every year, you would think they would have wised up years ago. The reason the 2/1st went to Montana was a late comer to SF BN CSM, and not to mention a CW3. Both were seriously thinking about retiring in the Helena area. It was so dry in Helena the BN S3 asked me about going to Utah.

MtnGoat
04-18-2006, 07:33
MtnGoat, I am not sure if this was the same trip but remember when CSM "Dracula" exited the van at high speed, cracking his skull on a mailbox or some other hard object? Then the Command staff flew to check up on him in the hospital and the BlackHawk hit a power line, crashing and injurying all on board. (By the way the route the helo took during the day was the same route my team was to use for a nigth enfil!) Also the MOST team destroyed a snowmobile hitting a tree trying to get to the crash site!

That was the year before, this WET was when you went to Group. Not bad, our team "sat" on the Helo crash for Rucker for a week more. Then got a bill for a tree Rucker cut down for a CH-47 to "pick-up" the UH-60. The MAJ should have stayed off the Bird, Jamie was on that Bird. Anytime that man flow on a bird, it would not land right. It would crash land everytime.

This WET (PIX) was a bad one. A lot of Lesson for the AAR. TS & CPT learned, I did on Food!! and the whole Tm on packing "lite". Just love those Wiggy Fart Sacks being so "light".

Max_Tab
04-18-2006, 07:39
Thanks for posting those pics, I'd forgotten how much it really sucked.

Razor
04-18-2006, 09:06
The good news is that MAJ (JK) seems to be doing fine. I run into him at the gym on a regular basis and he's none the worse for wear. Guess that 1LT pilot learned that trying to play 160th without the training doesn't pay.

BTW, CSM Vlad is now a GS working at Army Strategic Command.

That was a bad winter for Group overall.

MtnGoat
04-18-2006, 10:26
The good news is that MAJ (JK) seems to be doing fine. I run into him at the gym on a regular basis and he's none the worse for wear. Guess that 1LT pilot learned that trying to play 160th without the training doesn't pay.

BTW, CSM Vlad is now a GS working at Army Strategic Command.

That was a bad winter for Group overall.
Good to hear that MAJ is doing good, didn't know he was at Carson.

That LT did "try" to showboat for the MAJ & SGM. Watch one, do some, teach one. Its tried and proven.

Go to know CSM is doing good.

Razor
04-18-2006, 14:32
He (we) aren't at Carson; we work in NORAD-NORTHCOM at Pete.

TonyY
04-19-2006, 13:56
Someone asked about Norway. When the 10th was at Devens they would send teams to nato winter warfare coures that were taught at a base in Elverum I believe. They were about 10 weeks long with plenty of time in the field on x-country skies in the snow and cold. As part of the training we had to do 10, 20 and 60km biathelon races that actually were pretty good.

Did I say that!! It's funny how things like that don't phase you when your in your 20s. Today I don't mind watching them on TV sitting next to a nice fire sipping a good glass of brandy and smoking a Cuban cigar.

x SF med
04-23-2006, 13:55
In the 80's at Devens - we did 'practice' WW for real WW - Ramers, Rucks and Mirror Lake runs in the snow - then we'd ship off to wonderful places (for the 1st 2 wks at least) like Plattsburgh, or Utah, or VT. Anybody remember skiing up the Wasatch Mtns in -60 windchills - then sleeping in a farging snow hole? It would have been great if we could have kept with the downhill portion of WW Ex - snow bunnies loved the camo gore-tex. Wasn't it great living by Natic and getting the newest stuff that's all common to the FNGs. We tested all the Goretex, all the polypro, all the new lrp rats, sleeping bags, rucks and lbe vests before they became common for the rest of you guys - and sometimes gen 1 of the stuff absolutely sucked in cold weather - until we got to fill out the input sheets. We did get to test Grid laptops in cold weather, and satcom in cold weather - madese the ruck even heavier.... Ah the good cold days....

RSQCAL
12-20-2007, 13:01
Someone asked about Norway. When the 10th was at Devens they would send teams to nato winter warfare coures that were taught at a base in Elverum I believe. They were about 10 weeks long with plenty of time in the field on x-country skies in the snow and cold. As part of the training we had to do 10, 20 and 60km biathelon races that actually were pretty good.

Did I say that!! It's funny how things like that don't phase you when your in your 20s. Today I don't mind watching them on TV sitting next to a nice fire sipping a good glass of brandy and smoking a Cuban cigar.

This was the Norwegian Home Guard Winter Warfare Course. This was ran out of Dumbas, Norway. I attend in 1988 or 89 with ODA 093. I remember it as a decent course with almost all field time and a good deal above the timberline.

Ret10Echo
12-20-2007, 14:57
This was a fun one...

lksteve
12-20-2007, 17:46
This was a fun one...A snow cave would have been warmer....:munchin

Ret10Echo
12-21-2007, 06:06
A snow cave would have been warmer....:munchin

Agree...

Not much snow that year. The site was down on the Austrian border.

Had a similar experience up in Quebec (Frozen Trojan 199?) getting there right after a warm spell, then a deep freeze. Making a fire was like burning ice-cubes ;)

There were a whole bunch of great things that happened that year. Livestock in the barracks...snow machines on the golf-course etc...etc....

Our Canuck G's were recalled, packed-up and left, (inbound storm) telling us if we stayed we would die.

Most excellant.

lksteve
12-21-2007, 08:51
Not much snow that year. The site was down on the Austrian border.So is Bad Toelz...the year I left, there wasn't enough snow for snow caves, much skiing or anything else...the first three years I was there, we had snow aplenty...WW training without snow is pretty grim...

SFS0AVN
12-21-2007, 13:03
We took a little cross country ski trip with Col Festenhammer (King Ludwig) A/10th out of Lengries and over the Walberg in Tegernsee. At least he had transportation to take us home when we got to the other side.
Max_Tab I also remember the 10th Gp's first trip to Eagle, CO for WET at high altitude. I flew one of the Hueys that picked them up on the flat tops.

Ret10Echo
12-21-2007, 13:26
So is Bad Toelz...the year I left, there wasn't enough snow for snow caves, much skiing or anything else...the first three years I was there, we had snow aplenty...WW training without snow is pretty grim...

We were east of Toelz...Skied the Wendelstein that same trip.

kgoerz
12-21-2007, 18:30
Back when I was in Band,........Ski Camp:D

MtnGoat
12-24-2007, 12:30
Max_Tab I also remember the 10th Gp's first trip to Eagle, CO for WET at high altitude. I flew one of the Hueys that picked them up on the flat tops.


The Guys at HATS were some of the best pilots I've seen. They came in once and picked us up during a snow out and ice fog, while the out boys couldn't or wouldn't not sure which ones. But HATS can drive some birds!!

To bid the went to the crashhawks, I know the pilots didn't want t go to that frame.

rudelsg2
02-02-2008, 09:45
Wildflicken 99' the Winter "GUFF EX". Nothing like having a Company SGM that grew up in Ranger Bn, 7th and JSOC tell you no tents, stoves, or sleeping bags for WET. Especially after his german soldier/wool blanket on the eastern front anology we knew we were in trouble (I seem to remember most of them froze to death, but hey you know). Anyone whose been to Wildflicken in the winter can tell you it's pretty close to being on the eastern front. He finally consented to sleeping bags and bivy sacks for our company size Ranger patrol base in the snow.

When we got to Wildflicken base camp the germans had set up for us; the tents in the refit base camp had heaters that didn't work (they just sat there taunting you with their possibilities), lights that didn't work, about 4 inches of water on the floor of the tent, 30 cots crammed into about a 15 cot area and a colder temp inside the tent than was outside.

We finally moved out for Operation Frozen Chicken and after walking a bit we hit our patrol base. Now the idea for the patrol base was that we had 15 minutes each (taking turns at security of course) to get out our bags, get situated for the two days (I believe) we were to be there laying exposed on the ground in the snow, only sitting up to pull guard and only rolling over to piss, no other movement damn it! I think after about 2 hours in the PB , about a 1/4 of the company threw up from the unsantitary dish cleaning techniques of the german army cook crew catching up with us. The rest had all their bags, and gear soaked from the snow in the trees that was falling on us on a continous basis.

We finally aborted that mission, moved everyone that wasn't in the hospital to a gym so we could dry out our clothing and gear.

Moved out for the second week of training with all the gear your suppose to have (you know survive the elements first) and did it the way your suppose to and everything was fine. Well, except for Shawn B. needing exfil from Ice Station Zebra for a kidney stone and everyone else needing ice skates for the shoothouse hit.
It was never good when the CIF attempted to do a WET. Ahhh, the memories.

The Reaper
02-02-2008, 22:25
Wildflicken 99' the Winter "GUFF EX". Nothing like having a Company SGM that grew up in Ranger Bn, 7th and JSOC tell you no tents, stoves, or sleeping bags for WET.

I am going to chime in here, as I think that you are talking about a SGM whose first name was Mike.

When he reported to A/1/7 to be the SGM, I asked him where he had been in 7th Group, he said he had never been in 7th. I then asked him where he did his team time, he said that he had no team time outside of his JSOC teams.

When I inquired as to why he was coming down to our SF company, he responded that everyone knew you had to be a Company SGM to make CSM as an 18, which he had apparently been awarded without ever serving on an ODA.

A SGM in 7th Group with zero FID experience was going to get a quick education.

He was marginal as a SGM, had physical issues, and was, IMHO, unstable and prone to losing his temper and professionalism.

I left before he did, and heard that he went to 1/10.

Where was the Company Commander while he was abusing troops like this?

I think that Ramirez is the one who finally got rid of him.

TR

rudelsg2
02-03-2008, 00:12
I am going to chime in here, as I think that you are talking about a SGM whose first name was Mike.

When he reported to A/1/7 to be the SGM, I asked him where he had been in 7th Group, he said he had never been in 7th. I then asked him where he did his team time, he said that he had no team time outside of his JSOC teams.

When I inquired as to why he was coming down to our SF company, he responded that everyone knew you had to be a Company SGM to make CSM as an 18, which he had apparently been awarded without ever serving on an ODA.

A SGM in 7th Group with zero FID experience was going to get a quick education.

He was marginal as a SGM, had physical issues, and was, IMHO, unstable and prone to losing his temper and professionalism.

I left before he did, and heard that he went to 1/10.

Where was the Company Commander while he was abusing troops like this?

I think that Ramirez is the one who finally got rid of him.

TR

My apologies to the 7th Groupers then. Yes Sir, you are correct. on all points, highly unstable, waddled around and had enough stored excess calories to keep himself plenty warm. Nothing like getting a beeper call at two in the morning for a 2-3 hour speech on how we are all going to die in combat because no one will empty the trash can in the basement hallway. But, he had the ability to sell ice to an eskimo and people outside our company at higher levels (Bn & beyond) actually believed that WET was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Actually, I believe he retired on his own accord after he wrote himself a job over at SOCEUR where I believe he still holds that position. The Troop Sgts all fought him on the WET plan, but you couldn't win with him. The CO who was from 1/1 was another stellar performer himself.

.

Heretic
02-29-2008, 13:17
Several months on a Team and I encounter my first WET. We jumped in and my lowering line snapped sending my rifle poles etc screaming to the ground. 30 minutes later with all my gear I am running to the link up point only to find out that we have not found our bundle yet. By the grace of god we found the bundle. I think we barely made link up and headed out to the mountains. Day three Medic falls in stream coming back from link up. Day 4 my piss bottle lid wasnt so tight. Yum. Does anyone remember who hit the deer in the rental van? Ah what a great experience.

csquare
03-25-2008, 14:54
My apologies to the 7th Groupers then. Yes Sir, you are correct. on all points, highly unstable, waddled around and had enough stored excess calories to keep himself plenty warm. Nothing like getting a beeper call at two in the morning for a 2-3 hour speech on how we are all going to die in combat because no one will empty the trash can in the basement hallway. But, he had the ability to sell ice to an eskimo and people outside our company at higher levels (Bn & beyond) actually believed that WET was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Actually, I believe he retired on his own accord after he wrote himself a job over at SOCEUR where I believe he still holds that position. The Troop Sgts all fought him on the WET plan, but you couldn't win with him. The CO who was from 1/1 was another stellar performer himself.

.

I remember that WET! Walking all night in the snow and getting to the PB and as we laid there in the rain, sleet and snow. The mist heped get the snow that was hanging on the pine branches to give way. Huge snowballs were falling on everyone. From heights of 20+ feet. You could hear them coming in. It would get in your bag, down your shirt and everywhere else. Pat Q and I would just look at each other and "embrace the suck". Then we went back to the gym. Got warm and somewhat dry and then went on the ice hit from hell. The funniest wasn't the passing of the kidney stone, but PapaG getting shot, by one of the Navy EOD, in the ball sack. They were carrying SIMS and we were all carrying blue plastic. SGM G thought one of us shot him with blue plastic. But what a sight seeing PapaG rolling around in pain, in the freaking cold behind a berm as we breached the front door. Excellent suck fest!

rudelsg2
03-25-2008, 18:06
The funniest wasn't the passing of the kidney stone, but PapaG getting shot, by one of the Navy EOD, in the ball sack. They were carrying SIMS and we were all carrying blue plastic. SGM G thought one of us shot him with blue plastic. But what a sight seeing PapaG rolling around in pain, in the freaking cold behind a berm as we breached the front door. Excellent suck fest!

Yep, I was a few behind the EOD element and remember as I slid around the corner seeing PapaG rolling on the ground screaming "I'm shot in the d*ck, I'm shot in the d*ck", as everyone stepped either on him or over him to get to the breach point.

Stras
03-25-2008, 18:35
MtnGoat, I am not sure if this was the same trip but remember when CSM "Dracula" exited the van at high speed, cracking his skull on a mailbox or some other hard object? Then the Command staff flew to check up on him in the hospital and the BlackHawk hit a power line, crashing and injurying all on board. (By the way the route the helo took during the day was the same route my team was to use for a nigth enfil!) Also the MOST team destroyed a snowmobile hitting a tree trying to get to the crash site!


For me and the our comapany I would have to say that was our worst WET!

You missed El Hotshot 1LT when he flew in with the CW4 Vietnam era vet right behind him. That CW4 tore him a new one.... We heard it word for word about 300m away with the rotors still turning..

Never mind the sled that we got stuck in the creek in 2000 and had to retrieve three months later on account of the blizzard that hit us and stayed for 3 days. This was before we all had personal GPS, marked the sled with an Avalanche Probe and had general location from two points around the field. Came back 3 days later after the blizzard ceased, and started probing for a sled that was buried 10ft below the snow.... HATS kept flying over the area and called us when it was avail for recovery.

The Count is alive and well... I just heard from him last week.

J T was bad luck to fly with.... I was on a CH-47 jump with him at Carson when we had concertina wire get caught in the rear rotor.... luckily we were only 10ft off the ground.... but that could have been a really bad day...

Judgeroybean
03-25-2008, 22:20
Anyone remember the Ochios (sic?)? Big sleds like the polks, but no poles up front to pull/control with, just ropes. If/when the brake guy fell, that thing ALWAYS flew by the lead guys and ALWAYS wrapped around the nearest tree.

Ret10Echo
03-26-2008, 06:04
Anyone remember the Ochios (sic?)? Big sleds like the polks, but no poles up front to pull/control with, just ropes. If/when the brake guy fell, that thing ALWAYS flew by the lead guys and ALWAYS wrapped around the nearest tree.

Pulks were a joy...rigid aluminum poles to the harness, which worked really well when skiing through trees. :D And served as a great pivot point to cartwheel the attached skiier.

We used the squad-sized sleds for resupply bundle recoveries and deer sleds for our rucks.

Razor
03-26-2008, 12:58
Ahkios. Some later versions have rigid poles. Kifaru still makes 'em.

Max_Tab
03-26-2008, 15:30
Never mind the sled that we got stuck in the creek in 2000 and had to retrieve three months later on account of the blizzard that hit us and stayed for 3 days. This was before we all had personal GPS, marked the sled with an Avalanche Probe and had general location from two points around the field. Came back 3 days later after the blizzard ceased, and started probing for a sled that was buried 10ft below the snow.... HATS kept flying over the area and called us when it was avail for recovery.



I had to go up there after you guy's lost the sled and look for it. HAT's flew us up to the location, and dropped us off, and we spent all day probing for that stupid sled. Never did find it.

I loved the fact that the mountain team had to go up and look for your sled. I think you guy's were doing some snowmobile training, and we were back so we got tasked with the detail.

Judgeroybean
03-26-2008, 16:56
I first used the polk in Norway about 1982. Worked way better than the Ahkio, especially going downhill. Bottom line was, at least with my team, if you couldn't ski well, you were screwed, and we were pretty much screwed!
ANyone remember the OLD Viking dry suits, the ones that didn't have zippers, and you had to climb in thru the neck hole?!! I was about 170, and I had problems, usually a 2-3 man job to get inside. Pitty the 230+ crowd.

Stras
03-28-2008, 19:39
Max Tab is still looking for his skis and poles after Pacman took care of the "cherry" who sprayed the Co SGM while he was in the yardsale recovery mode......

Young cherry had not learned the important lesson of never turn your back on someone you just sprayed with snow..... especially when it's Pacman....

Pacman put the whooping on that poor boy when he caught him from behind..... and separated him from his skis........ Dick Butkis style......

2000 was a great WET.... unless you worked in the S-1 shop and was in the army under an assumed identity....

lksteve
03-29-2008, 09:51
ANyone remember the OLD Viking dry suits, the ones that didn't have zippers, and you had to climb in thru the neck hole?!! I was about 170, and I had problems, usually a 2-3 man job to get inside. Pitty the 230+ crowd.There was nothing dry about them...I was 140 and had a hell of a time getting in one...

Max_Tab
03-30-2008, 13:14
Max Tab is still looking for his skis and poles after Pacman took care of the "cherry" who sprayed the Co SGM while he was in the yardsale recovery mode......

Young cherry had not learned the important lesson of never turn your back on someone you just sprayed with snow..... especially when it's Pacman....

Pacman put the whooping on that poor boy when he caught him from behind..... and separated him from his skis........ Dick Butkis style......

2000 was a great WET.... unless you worked in the S-1 shop and was in the army under an assumed identity....

After I sprayed him I took off, and linked up with the rest of our ski group. I was at the bottom of the line and figured I was good to go with everyone in between me and him. Of course I didn't count on everyone jumping out of the way when he was barreling down the hill at me. He blindsided me so hard I think I still have bruised ribs:D I of course bought him a couple beers at the last lift bar after we were done.

alfromcolorado
04-12-2008, 16:19
This is my first day of being able to post, but I have read through this thread. Some good memories here and I know some of you folks.

My last WET was 97 out in CO with B/2/10.

I did teach an avalanche safety course in Jan 1998 out at Sunlight, but I was on terminal leave so I didn't get to enjoy the skiing for more than a day.

I miss those days even if I WAS freezing my ass off. I still think the White Mountains and/or VT seemed colder than CO.

Germany was just cool though. (I still hang around there.)

Al

tap053
06-23-2008, 22:04
The Cpt makes the call and the NG guys from Vail (HATS) fly in through the blizzard and pull us out.

Hey not to bring this thread back from the dead, but I remember that CPT.... it was me :D

Max_Tab
06-24-2008, 16:41
Hey not to bring this thread back from the dead, but I remember that CPT.... it was me :D

And I thank'd God that you did.

Richard
06-24-2008, 20:52
Six months in the RPI, home to Bragg for Xmas, and then two months in AK--part of the time north of the Ranges (-50 at night warming up to -25 during the day) and part of the time vic Beluga Station and Kodiak Island. Doing an SDV transit and port facility joint attack on Kodiak with a Team from Coronado in January is no fun--and dry suits don't keep you as dry or nearly as warm as you'd like.

Richard :munchin

jjw
10-20-2008, 17:05
I remember that WET! Walking all night in the snow and getting to the PB and as we laid there in the rain, sleet and snow. The mist heped get the snow that was hanging on the pine branches to give way. Huge snowballs were falling on everyone. From heights of 20+ feet. You could hear them coming in. It would get in your bag, down your shirt and everywhere else. Pat Q and I would just look at each other and "embrace the suck". Then we went back to the gym. Got warm and somewhat dry and then went on the ice hit from hell. The funniest wasn't the passing of the kidney stone, but PapaG getting shot, by one of the Navy EOD, in the ball sack. They were carrying SIMS and we were all carrying blue plastic. SGM G thought one of us shot him with blue plastic. But what a sight seeing PapaG rolling around in pain, in the freaking cold behind a berm as we breached the front door. Excellent suck fest!

THat was the Officer on that EOD team. He took heavies for a long time. I was up there the following year.

Blitzzz (RIP)
10-21-2008, 06:31
My team went through the Danish scout swimmer course in Denmark in '84. I'm one of the 230lb crowd and thought I was going to be strangled to death. It's pretty tight and might be better if one is into auto-asphyxiation.;) That wasn't my best WET but I remember the tram being unable to open the gates of the snaplinks on the swim line when we came ashore on a particular "cold" night 5 k infil swim. Our hands would not move. Brrrrr Blitz.

As to WETs I was also in 10th group and many a cold cold night and navigating with an altermeter on ridge/elevation lines. Blitz