View Full Version : 25U/31U as a feeder to 18E?
If any 18 echo's don't mind sharing their wisdom, I'm curious how many of you took the 25U course (previously 31U) and found it useful as a feeder to 18E. I had planned to push for an 11B rep-63 contract, but wiser minds suggest 25U would be a good use of my time. I may not have a choice, in any case, as it seems National Guard requires feeder MOS's that correspond to each 18 series. I originally wanted 11B so I could keep it short and focus on PT, but I've heard that you aren't given enough time in the day in 11B for sufficient PT.
Thanks in advance!
SpetsnaZ
02-05-2009, 14:59
amatlis,
I enlisted as a 19D, deployed as a 11B and became an 18E, So heres my $.02
1. 11B is great for field exposure and a suck factor which you're gonna need in the future:D
2. During the Echo course I wish I had a prior commo MOS which would have helped ease the studying
3. I went through "the last hard class" :lifter, and the Q course is now easier so what ever route you pick you have some choice's:
a) 11B- If you fail or quit you'll become a grunt in a line platoon
b) 25U- If you fail or quit you'll become a poug in a line platoon
c) 11B- "If" you make it you'll never be referred to as a poug
d) 25U- "If" you make it you'll just be a better commo guy
So its your choice?
I'm not an echo, but I need one.
And if I were hiring you, I'd rather you had an infantry background. I can send you to school to learn radios. Patrolling, et al, are life skills. I was in tanks prior to going SF. I make up for my shortcomings by surrounding myself with guys who I know started in places harder than I did. My team is my security blanket.
Not only would I go 11B, I'd go ahead and get that V tacked on there. Unless you just want to be a commo guy with a green beret, in which case do your 25U or whatever. Some people are better at support. That's not meant to be an insult, it's just the way it is.
Surgicalcric
02-05-2009, 15:38
He isnt talking about spending time as an Infantryman vs commo guy prior to coming to SFAS; he is talking about coming straight in off the street (18X/REP-63). ;)
See here for more history on the topic... http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21644
Thank you SpetsnaZ! I appreciate the feedback!
Initially, when I was told I had to do 25U, I was disappointed because I wanted exactly what you mentioned: field exposure and suck factor. I suddenly saw myself installing Microsoft Windows and configuring local area networks, and I thought, "Crap, I already do that stuff at home. I don't want to be doing desk work for 18 weeks!" But, then, in addition to your comment, Surgicalcric also mentioned that he heard several new 18Es say it was helpful to have more of a commo background, so I began to take it seriously. I looked over the 25U curriculum, and I can see how a lot of the radio, antenna, and satellite training would be helpful. I'm a little worried, however, that I won't be given time to PT properly. I don't mind studying hard for 18E in the future. I do worry a little about the physical preparation, more so lately that my work load at the office is interfering with my PT time.
amatlis,
I enlisted as a 19D, deployed as a 11B and became an 18E, So heres my $.02
1. 11B is great for field exposure and a suck factor which you're gonna need in the future:D
2. During the Echo course I wish I had a prior commo MOS which would have helped ease the studying
3. I went through "the last hard class" :lifter, and the Q course is now easier so what ever route you pick you have some choice's:
a) 11B- If you fail or quit you'll become a grunt in a line platoon
b) 25U- If you fail or quit you'll become a poug in a line platoon
c) 11B- "If" you make it you'll never be referred to as a poug
d) 25U- "If" you make it you'll just be a better commo guy
So its your choice?
I'm not an echo, but I need one.
And if I were hiring you, I'd rather you had an infantry background. I can send you to school to learn radios. Patrolling, et al, are life skills. I was in tanks prior to going SF. I make up for my shortcomings by surrounding myself with guys who I know started in places harder than I did. My team is my security blanket.
Not only would I go 11B, I'd go ahead and get that V tacked on there. Unless you just want to be a commo guy with a green beret, in which case do your 25U or whatever. Some people are better at support. That's not meant to be an insult, it's just the way it is.
When you say infantry background, do you mean basic+ait 11B, or do you mean actual time spent in infantry? I am going rep-63 directly into SFAS after my MOS.
Also, what is the V you mention?
Thanks!
Surgicalcric
02-05-2009, 15:52
....Also, what is the V you mention?
Airborne and Ranger School qualified.
Airborne and Ranger School qualified.
Thank you Surgicalcric. I am willing to do anything to get myself ready for SFAS. I don't know if I can get Ranger School in my contract. Would you recommend it?
Oh, didn't realize you were doing this as an X-ray. I wasn't aware that you could pick anything other than 11B as your pre-req.
V is the identifier for airborne ranger, vs P which is just airborne.
Question: if you already do all this networking at home, why do you want to go to an MOS school for it? If you have a choice in MOS's, wouldn't you want to pick something up that will better crosstrain you and make you more marketable? Just a thought. Most 18E's that came before you were not commo previously.
Another thing to consider if you have a choice in your 18series selection: 18D's and 18E's get the MF'n shaft when it comes to promotions and schools. Half my class of 18D's are warrants now because it was the only way to stop being "the doc". And you wouldn't believe the hoops jumped through to get a fox slot. It's easier to go B or C first and then reclass to E. Just something to think about. Depends on what your long term goals are. And that's a looooooooooooong way down the road from where you are.
Another thing to consider if you have a choice in your 18series selection: 18D's and 18E's get the MF'n shaft when it comes to promotions and schools. Half my class of 18D's are warrants now because it was the only way to stop being "the doc". And you wouldn't believe the hoops jumped through to get a fox slot. It's easier to go B or C first and then reclass to E. Just something to think about. Depends on what your long term goals are. And that's a looooooooooooong way down the road from where you are.
I don't have a hard-set long term goal. My immediate goal is to get on a team and start learning to be an asset. I figured I could help out more with 18E due to my background. But, really SF in any capacity is my goal.
Question: if you already do all this networking at home, why do you want to go to an MOS school for it? If you have a choice in MOS's, wouldn't you want to pick something up that will better crosstrain you and make you more marketable? Just a thought. Most 18E's that came before you were not commo previously.
I used to do computer network support in college and I have a computer science degree, but I don't know about radios, antenna theory, and satellites.
Swank and SpetsnaZ have good comments, I as a former 05BS, 18E and 18Z will give you my .02.
1. If your going right into the "fight", I would tend to lean toward the combat skills training upon entry into the army, you need the survival skills upfront, learn the technical as you go, as was mentioned reclass, I don't know how often they do that though, no one wants to lose a guy for two months to get reclassed.
2. If you're not going right into the fight, I agree with getting some type of Ft Gordon signal MOS prior to the 18E, the echoes are slowly starting to shift into network, LAN/WAN, computer geek duties with all the wizz bang equip emerging along with all the tactical comm's equip. It would also help with communicating with mother army when they are in your AO. You can hone your tactics through intensive tm training and drills over time.
All these opinions have merrit, but in the end, it's your call.
Good luck
EDIT: If I had my way I would send them to benning first, get infantry tng, then also send them to Ft Gordon for a signal skill before becoming an 18E, the way we used to do it. The leaarning curve in the MOS phases of the `Q course is quite steep, alot of of stuff to cover with not enought time.
I am also the 18E training developer up here in SWC(S)
There's alot more we tng/info we need to get to the 18E's, but we just can't come up with the time required
Thank you glebo. I really appreciate that information from an 18E training developer!
I have a question regarding your comment about going right into the fight. Do I really have a choice in that? Shouldn't I assume that I might be deployed as soon as I finish?
I have heard some people say 11B is not that important since you will learn it all and more in the Q course. But, I hear you saying you do think it is important for being an effective fighter. Do I understand you correctly?
Also, if I am already a computer geek, does that change your advice about going to 25U? For example, even if I know how to build computers, install operating systems and set up a computer LAN from a hobby perspective, is there a lot that would still be valuable to me - maybe advanced networking, radios, antenna theory, satellite communications?
Thanks!
Ret10Echo
02-06-2009, 07:48
I came at it sort of backward...
Went through Infantry OSUT as a Reservist, then went active as a Signal Corp guy (36C, 31L, 31V...) Became an Echo and had a fairly easy time with a majority of the MOS-specific stuff since I had done a lot of it already (including a lot of the antenna theory...etc). I was very happy to have the 11B background (as limited as that exposure was) when it came down to it in the course because it is one thing to fumble around a bit stringing an antenna...it is quite another to walk around for hours and make poor tactical decisions(dragging your team behind you) because your basic infanty skills suck.
Unfortunately for you it is impossible and impractical to be strong in one area and weak in the other...:D Do both and do them well...there are a lot of roads that lead in that direction. My personal thought is that if you are going to get into a signal MOS I would look for something with a more tactical spin to it. As a Unit-Level comm guy I worked with Engineer, Armor and Scout units so you are at least around a tactical mindset.
Hello all,
I was a 11B but went 18E. Ham radio helped me do that, they wanted me to be a 18B, but I don't like heavy weapons ;)
I did myself a great favor going 11B then 18E, for each 18 series has a job to do and must of the time its tactics on the ground. When it comes to it, we all need to shoot, move, and communicate.
I am now a geek with a gun and I know how to use both..and that makes me more dangerous .... :D
Thank you glebo. I really appreciate that information from an 18E training developer!
I have a question regarding your comment about going right into the fight. Do I really have a choice in that? Shouldn't I assume that I might be deployed as soon as I finish?
I have heard some people say 11B is not that important since you will learn it all and more in the Q course. But, I hear you saying you do think it is important for being an effective fighter. Do I understand you correctly?
Also, if I am already a computer geek, does that change your advice about going to 25U? For example, even if I know how to build computers, install operating systems and set up a computer LAN from a hobby perspective, is there a lot that would still be valuable to me - maybe advanced networking, radios, antenna theory, satellite communications?
Thanks!
If you go active (which I assume) you probably will get right into the fight. If you say you have the skills you mentioned, I would dare to say you can forgo the 25 series training.
The tactics training in the "Q" is adequate, (we just re-vamped the 18B POI) but remember the Q course is just the "beginner" course for operators. Kinda like SF AIT, you will still have a great learning curve, no matter what the MOS you have when ya get to group.
You have to be a QUICK learner, but hey....thats what makes us "special":lifter
I was an airborne 31U/25U when I had enlisted into the Army, then stationed at Bragg. It exposed me to the radio/tactical side of the Army that I had no background in. Being a signal guy in the regular Army allowed me to learn what Army life was all about, and it shaped me into a stellar soldier which prepped me for greater challenges, something that 18Xs don't but should get to experience. I did the best I could at my job which turned me into one of the best signal guys in the battalion.
I never had an experience or exposure to the infantry way of life in the Army so that was all new to me. It was very surprising to see seasoned infantrymen and Rangers from around the Army not being able to cut it through selection and the rest of the Q, which caused a lot of confusion for me. I remember thinking what was I doing right or wrong that was still keeping me here, or what were they doing causing them to quit or be dropped. I was still young at the time, 20 years old, and I didn't know what I was capable of accomplishing or my personal level of strength of will. However during the Q, my commo background helped out tremendously and allowed me to focus and learn other things that I did not know of before or that I was weaker on, while the rest of the guys had to learn everything for the first time.
In my experience, I think having a commo background prior to the 18E course is a lot more valuable than having the infantry background only. If you are really high speed then being a Ranger tabbed 25U is the perfect path for becoming an 18E.
I kind of disagree. I started off as a 31U/25U in the 82nd(later becoming an echo). I think being bred to do 7-8 early on benefits an 18E more. I had more trouble learning 7-8 then it seemed the 11B's had picking up commo(some knuckle heads aside).
SFSalRet08
04-26-2010, 00:17
If I can add my .02. I started out my military career as an 11B straight into the Rangers. Did me a lot of good there learning the infantry (Ranger) way. Lots of tactical expertise there, a vast wealth of knowledge. I left there and went straight in to the LRSC community. Meshing Infantry and Communications into one. Served in several different LRSC units before trying out for SF. I believe with my Infantry background and knowledge of radios from being in LRSC units made me a well rounded individual and made SFAS and the Q easy for me. So my advice is if you can get some time in the Infantry and get your hands on some radios do that first. As many of the PS’s have already said (here, and many other threats) get some real Army time under your belt then try out for SF and bring something else to the table besides your youth.
Again just my .02.
Green Light
04-26-2010, 05:45
I would have to agree. I started out as an 05B2S/18E and changed PMOS to 12B3S/18C. I had a teenaged comms background which made sense (originally wanted to be a medic).
My MOS basics were OK, but infantry background was somewhat lacking. If you want to be a well rounded SF guy you're going to need both sides. As a young guy, think about Ranger School. It's probably the best junior leadership/tactics school there is. Or you can go on a 6 month trip to the jungle and learn it the hard way. :D
BTW: Gotta say that my two best team sergeants were a medic and a commo man. 18Bs don't have the corner on the leadership quotient. Some of the best patrols I've ever been on were led by medics. The most jacked up patrol I've ever been on (except for a couple led by captains :D ) was led by an 18B. Depends on the guy, not the MOS.
Depends on the guy, not the MOS.
And that's a fact, Jack!
Richard
SFSalRet08
04-26-2010, 07:27
Not to get off subject, but I just don’t understand why they always class the Echo’s and Delta’s as the soft skilled MOS’s. As a few PS’s have stated in other threats, SF guys were SF first and MOS secondary. On my last team one Bravo was prior cook and the other was an MP. Are one Charlie had been a mortar man, while I and my senior were both from Ranger Battalion and both had been to Ranger School. We both had leadership experience, and were both over looked when it came to teaching any combat related classes to our students down range. As I had stated in my last post being of different MOS related makes for a well rounded candidate. Now our Bravo when it came time for the team parties, cooked one hell of a steak and burger. YUM!
Dozer523
04-26-2010, 11:57
Not to get off subject, but I just don’t understand why they always class the Echo’s and Delta’s as the soft skilled MOS’s. Cuz the Echo’s and Delta’s stuff isn't 'sposed to go "BOOM".
Ret10Echo
04-26-2010, 12:03
Cuz the Echo’s and Delta’s stuff isn't 'sposed to go "BOOM".
Ever seen a Lithium battery "Vent" :D
Dozer523
04-26-2010, 12:04
Ever seen a Lithium battery "Vent" :D
Cuz the Echo’s and Delta’s stuff isn't 'sposed to go "BOOM".:eek::D:D
Draco771
08-03-2010, 23:11
I've been going over a lot of the information regarding this thread, and many others. For the current moment in time, I'm Med DQ from the Army, (at least according to several diff Recruiters) let alone the other branches. (For now)
Background info:
So I've enrolled into a local CC, and I'll be taking Electronics Technology, and Secondary Major towards Certificate of Computer Information Systems-Network Technician.
By the end of this school year if I keep following the pipeline outlined, by end of Summer Quarter (2011) I should have obtained, and take the ComptTIA Network+ test. I'll also be able to challenge the CCENT, and LCIP-1, CompTIA Server+, MCDBA, MCSA, and CompTIA A+.
By end of the two year program, I'll have CCNA, CCSP, CompTIA Security+, CETa, and a few other certs because of the course of instruction. Per a Recruiters recommendations, he stated me following this pipeline, will allow me to ACASP into 25B, and 25U. 25B I'd be fast tracked to the last three weeks, and 25U I'd have AIT completely waived. (According to the Recruiter)
Also, he had stated by doing ACASP, my med DQ would be automatically waived because of being "overqualified for the MOS" (saving the Army $$$) same Recruiter even stated I could even go straight from civilian side into a Network Technician Warrant Officer. Whether or not this is true, I'll find out once I'm finished with schooling.
Question:
I've been reading a great deal about what MOSs go into what, and how much "better" it is to be in something different than the SF MOS related to the career field. Is this a good summary?
If so, provided I'm able to finish my school pipeline, and all is good to go, other than 18E, (reading this thread in particular regarding 25U feeding into 18E) what other MOS would be good? If what I've been told is correct, 25U is the MOS AIT I can have waived and automatically awarded once finished. (so most likely it'll be the MOS I'll be Enlisting as, way I was told it works, is I submit my school transcripts, and copies of my certifications, then I get a BCT date, BAC date, and RASP if Option 40 is open or I take Option 4. With 25U AIT completely bypassed, which is why this relates to 25U going SF)
I've read for quite some time now, (going on years) on how SF Commanders want Soldiers to be well rounded, and universal, but yet I've read several threads/posts over the past few years on how there aren't enough 18Es. And how SF Teams do a great deal of cross training. I understand this is a rephrase to the question, but where else would one with 25U Creds be good in an ODA?
And if so, how often do QPs outside of 18E perform both their duties, and the duties of an 18E? How would this benefit an ODA?
ZonieDiver
08-03-2010, 23:58
Draco,
I wondered where you wuz!
Last time you checked in, as I recall, you were in Job Corps. Whatever happened there, if you don't mind me asking?
Your post was a LONG set-up for what will be a short answer. My time in SF is not current, but as I recall, it isn't the former MOS you bring with you, it is your abilities and attitude.
Good luck. It sounds like it will be a verrrrry long, and winding, road.
Draco771
08-04-2010, 00:06
Thank you ZonieDiver, that actually cleared up quite a bit.
Just the fact of getting into SOF, let alone SF, (or Rangers, first thing I'll be looking into is Option 40, mainly because of the "no quit" attitude they put into you from day one, that, and Signal Guys in 75th seem quite high speed lol)
I graduated as Head Crew Chief of Nursing. State Registered Nursing Assistant, and Certified Home Health Aide. but now working Logistics (unloading the trucks, and maintain distribution of supplies/materials across the complex I work) part-time while attending school this fall for an ATA in Electronics Technology, with secondary set in Computer Information Systems-Network Technician.
Back at Job Corps I had an opportunity to apply for RSM Manager for the regular side of the REC, but it would have ment a longer commitment, (one I had initially finished, and was ready to move on)
When I get a "break" I'll be looking into an NREMT-B course on top of my regular studies. Even if it's just something to have on hand. (Better to have, and not need it, then need it, and not have it. Ya know?) All I have to do is attend 40 more hours of schooling, and I can already challenge the NREMT-B exam. (JC training for ya, they go above and beyond what's needed, but then, it's kinda bad, because when JC students go into the Civ Workforce, we end up with elitist attitudes vs the three week wonders, whether or not that's good, is still up to debate)
So now I'm just keeping myself situated, and saving money.
And I understand the road is going to be long. But if it's what I need to do in order to Enlist, it's what I'll do. (I've already waited two years, another two wont really make much of a difference to me)
The Reaper
08-04-2010, 05:17
Med DQs are not overcome by additional training and skills, last time I checked.
TR
Draco771
08-04-2010, 12:08
Way it was put to me, was that if I ACASP, likelyhood of getting a waiver for using an inhaler for pneumonia at age 17, would be increased exponentially.
I'll find out if it's valid or not when the schooling is completed.