View Full Version : It's only FID, Hell anybody can do it!
NousDefionsDoc
02-02-2009, 19:43
Language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1GrdTakvl8
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AngelsSix
02-02-2009, 19:55
NICE
NICE
Really? :confused:
Pat
Somehow, I get the impression there will be no donuts after the meeting...:D
More seriously, I cannot help but wonder about the long-term viability of the Iraqi state given what appears to be a complete lack of commitment on the part of the Iraqis.
I was half-expecting someone to raise their hand when he asked if there were any Mahdi militia in the formation...
The antihero
02-03-2009, 09:05
Cannot say he ain't right about the facts but still, that's an huffy culture to be spoken at that way. I hate huffy cultures.
Team Sergeant
02-03-2009, 09:12
I guess this is how the "General Purpose Forces" conduct FID. Good thing the military is studying COIN.:rolleyes:
Defender968
02-03-2009, 10:23
While I will agree he was pretty gruff, I would like to know the back story on him and the situation. In my experience a "well timed fit" can be a very effective leadership tool, especially if it is used very infrequently and selectively, and targeting for a specific response for a very specific reason. At the same time a poorly thought through rant can do significant damage to the cohesiveness of a unit.
Just my .02
Roguish Lawyer
02-03-2009, 10:54
Wow
Seriously, from the perspective of learning more about leadership - what should one do to enhance the effectiveness of such a group?
I'm not asking about material that might be inappropriate for public discussion - rather, I'm curious about general principles of leadership. So, supposing that the Iraqis represent a largely unmotivated group that may include some that are hostile, how would one approach the problem?
I can see a somewhat similar situation with U.S. workers in a downsized company, all faced with a new leader/manager. If the person in front of the group compliments them, it is, quite simply, nonsense. They are (seemingly) not effective, nor are they engaged. On the other hand, the consensus seems to be that insulting them is likewise counterproductive. So...perhaps some middle approach? But what?
Anyway, if such things can be discussed without compromising sensitive information, I would like to improve my understanding.
Surf n Turf
02-03-2009, 12:25
I guess this is how the "General Purpose Forces" conduct FID. Good thing the military is studying COIN.:rolleyes:
TS,
This guy wasn’t reading FM 3-24, he had the early version – If I remember Big Army’s definition of Hearts & Minds was – “If you grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow”. :D
“We should accept the fact that conventionally trained armies are not the most optimal forces trained and prepared for counterinsurgency warfare, but those forces can in fact learn and adapt to the situations that confront them fairly quickly. In the early months of Iraq key policy and strategic failures were made.--- the American Army adapted to full spectrum operations which included adapting quickly to many best practices in Coin.”
http://abumuqawama.blogspot.com/2009/01/gian-gentile-versus-abu-muqawama-round.html
SnT
Scimitar
02-03-2009, 12:40
An unusal way to get a response, but he got it.
"How can we improve our image?"
Weather that was a sincere question, who knows; but he had an oportunity to create motivation and solidify vision and then he went and screwed it up by saying "go down the road and get in a fire-fight".
Which, as uneducated as I am, I can't imagine would be a next step with a positive outcome.
Surley he got his butt kicked by higher up for this display of 'leadership'?
S
If I remember Big Army’s definition of Hearts & Minds was – “If you grab them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”
"Unofficial" postings were "When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." :D
Our variant at SFT-36 was a poster of a huge Orangutan wearing a beret and saying "Let me win your hearts and minds...or I'll burn your f'in huts down!" ;)
But I'm thinking you can't do that now with all the COO doctrine and "Warrior" :rolleyes: schooling for the masses and such.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Does anyone know why the speech was given? Something must have happened.
RAVEN_DUST
02-03-2009, 15:09
Does anyone know why the speech was given? Something must have happened.
I have no first hand knowledge and this is pure speculation. Maybe the events described in these links have something to do with this situation.
http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/NewsDetails.aspx?id=71387&language=en
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,410921,00.html
I could be WAY off.
I love the "pep talk" given by this Soldier though.
:rolleyes:
The one thing I will say from my experience working with Iraqi Police, is that they are loyal to money. If local insurgence decide to pay them to lay road side bombs/ steal weapons from the IP stations.. that is exactly what they will do. There wasn't a single one where I worked that wasn't corrupt beyond repair. We lost a SSG to a EFP planted by an IP.
Iraqi Army on the other hand had some damn good dudes... for the most part.
NousDefionsDoc
02-03-2009, 18:28
1. If you are going to go off - make sure no one is filming it.
2. He made it personal, never get personal in public.
3. He made threats he couldn't or wouldn't carry out.
4. Do you think he understands why they won't fight?
5. He put them on the floor - did he bring them back up? He might have...
6. Your mores and morals and constraints and issues aren't theirs - understand that.
7. Never ask the question if you don't want to know the answer and don't have a plan for dealing with it.
NousDefionsDoc
02-03-2009, 18:29
Just off the top of my head..
frostfire
02-03-2009, 21:37
1. If you are going to go off - make sure no one is filming it.
2. He made it personal, never get personal in public.
3. He made threats he couldn't or wouldn't carry out.
4. Do you think he understands why they won't fight?
5. He put them on the floor - did he bring them back up? He might have...
6. Your mores and morals and constraints and issues aren't theirs - understand that.
7. Never ask the question if you don't want to know the answer and don't have a plan for dealing with it.
I just learned more about leadership than years spent in college leadership classes. Thank you NDD
Hostile0311
02-04-2009, 01:39
1. If you are going to go off - make sure no one is filming it.
2. He made it personal, never get personal in public.
3. He made threats he couldn't or wouldn't carry out.
4. Do you think he understands why they won't fight?
5. He put them on the floor - did he bring them back up? He might have...
6. Your mores and morals and constraints and issues aren't theirs - understand that.
7. Never ask the question if you don't want to know the answer and don't have a plan for dealing with it.
Sage advice and wisdom. Thanks for sharing Sir.
AngelsSix
02-04-2009, 06:35
Really?
Pat
Sorry.....Should have inserted a sarcasm smiley in here somewhere;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc View Post
1. If you are going to go off - make sure no one is filming it.
2. He made it personal, never get personal in public.
3. He made threats he couldn't or wouldn't carry out.
4. Do you think he understands why they won't fight?
5. He put them on the floor - did he bring them back up? He might have...
6. Your mores and morals and constraints and issues aren't theirs - understand that.
7. Never ask the question if you don't want to know the answer and don't have a plan for dealing with it.
I just learned more about leadership than years spent in college leadership classes. Thank you NDD
AMEN
Richard,
Dig the Pogo avatar! Been a while since I've seen that. . .
Books
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7908352.stm
-J
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7908352.stm
-J
Young man you have in just 2 hours posted 10 times and you only have a 11 post. You are posting little tidbits on some and they do not contribute to the subject very well.
Your other post have raised other QP's awareness of you and I personally would recommend Post less and Read a Lot More. With time comes SA and you will learn what and how to post within our Board. Just my 2 cents but supported with 20+ years under a ruck tramping around the world.
This is not Military.com
Coldsteel24
04-27-2009, 15:43
Source is here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518143,00.html
Is the U.S. soldier starring in this popular Youtube video a tough, Patton-esque, tell-'em-like-it-is inspirational leader … or is he an unprofessional jerk?
That’s the question FOXNews.com set out to answer when we asked the U.S. Army to help identify and locate the soldier for an interview. But the Army was less than forthcoming, so we’re looking for help finding him.
Here’s what we do know: The video was shot at least six to eight months ago, according to Maj. Hunter Holliday of the Multinational Force Iraq Media Operations Center. It features a U.S. soldier who begins what seems like a routine training speech for a squad of Iraqi troops. But the volume, pace and sharpness of the soldier’s voice escalates considerably in what becomes a more-than-five-minute lecture -- or tirade, depending on one’s point of view -- on his many issues with the Iraqis’ non-performance.
"You know why I'm p----- off?" he shouts at one point. "I come down here with my soldiers to try to train you, and you're trying to f------ kill Americans, you're trying to kill your fellow f------ Iraqis, 'cuz you got no f------ backbone."
The Army may be reluctant to identify the soldier because it doesn’t like what it saw in the video -- which has already picked up more than half a million views on Youtube.
"The Soldier's behavior is inconsistent with our Army values and does not represent the position of Coalition Forces," Holliday wrote in an e-mail to FOXNews.com. Holliday added "appropriate action" could be taken against the soldier following an investigation.
But some former military personnel defended what they saw.
"That's the way drill sergeants drill recruits," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, a FOX News senior military analyst who said he understood the soldier’s frustration. "They're tough, and they do use profanity to varying degrees.”
Help us identify the soldier, and get the story straight from him. Email talktofox@foxnews.com and we’ll report back when we get the full story.
Joshua Rhett Miller contributed to this report.
I was wondering how you gent's felt about the subject of the Army handing this guy over to the media.
I was wondering how you gent's felt about the subject of the Army handing this guy over to the media.
I don't read that the Army has handed anyone to Fox news?? A REMF Maj made a couple replies to unofficial email with some generic statements.
"The Soldier's behavior is inconsistent with our Army values and does not represent the position of Coalition Forces," Holliday wrote in an e-mail to FOXNews.com. Holliday added "appropriate action" could be taken against the soldier following an investigation.
Your 1st post, before you were told of this one, went something like:
"anyone know who he is??"
Looking to get the Jimmy Olsen Cub Reporter award from FOX??
:rolleyes::munchin:D
Coldsteel24
04-27-2009, 20:21
I don't read that the Army has handed anyone to Fox news?? A REMF Maj made a couple replies to unofficial email with some generic statements.
Your 1st post, before you were told of this one, went something like:
"anyone know who he is??"
Looking to get the Jimmy Olsen Cub Reporter award from FOX??
:rolleyes::munchin:D
JJ_BPK
I apparently need to work on clarifying myself, I apologize.
I don't believe the Army has turned anyone over, but I do feel that they should not, and was simply wondering how everyone else, especially QP's felt about the prospect of this guy being turned over to the media, and what it might mean to the rest of the Army.
I'm unclear about your "1st post" comment, as the news link was my first post on this thread about this topic.
CS24
Wayneo79
04-28-2009, 03:59
Several times I've started a response to this thread without finishing it and just clicked the red 'X'.
1. If you are going to go off - make sure no one is filming it.
2. He made it personal, never get personal in public.
3. He made threats he couldn't or wouldn't carry out.
4. Do you think he understands why they won't fight?
5. He put them on the floor - did he bring them back up? He might have...
6. Your mores and morals and constraints and issues aren't theirs - understand that.
7. Never ask the question if you don't want to know the answer and don't have a plan for dealing with it.
Thanks, Doc; points (rules) well posted that should be in EVERY Service members playbook!
JForm's post from the BBC may be the evidence I was seeking to explain (not 'justify') the actions in the video. I was furious when I first saw it. I might be able to 'turn a blind eye' that it happenned but the fact it was video taped and THEN REVEALED TO THE PUBLIC FOR GLOBAL VIEWING is inexcusable. I put this as a serious black eye to our troops since the video link I had was from some Arab nation server; the ramifications of it's being posted there should be obvious.
I can't fault the Soldier too much for saying for what he did if JForm's link is the backstory (yup, I "wasn't there"), but it sure stirred up some of the same "oh crap, here it comes!" feelings I had when Abu Ghraib pics were released. Of course, I'm NOT making a comparsion here, just 'venting' that discretion seems to be lacking everywhere and noone seems notice it for what it is.
Uurgh!
Doc, thanks again for posting rules for a great strategy towards misson success.
v/r
WayneO
Oldschool45B
04-30-2009, 21:09
Sure anyone can do FID. Anyone can do brain surgery too. But I want the guy with the fucking diploma doing it and not some asshat who thinks he knows what to do because he read some halfwit shit put out by Army Lessons Learned.
This is a perfect example of troop leading by antagonism, degredation and cajoling because the "leaders" have poor motivational, raport building, and real leadership skills. After being a Marine this kind of behavior is old hat. But it is still weak and funny to watch. Our 1st SGT on our first deployment (Former Ranger and Marine with longtab envy... :boohoo) tried this shit. He met with more than a little resistance and about half way thru he figured the guys that did not need baby sitting could be left left on their own. If he tried that shit he got shit for results. If he treated us like adults he got positive results. Funny how the guys with the diplomas always got what they needed, even if the armsroom had to steal it to get it. Same with the mekniks. And he couldn't even get a sidearm to go to the PX with.
I would not be suprised to see some of these guys leave him hanging him out there after they got punked out. They are a spiteful people when they are wronged. Fuckers anyway.
Just my .0001 worth having been treated both ways.