View Full Version : A Different Idea About PT (For Some...)
NousDefionsDoc
06-15-2004, 20:52
Different Idea About PT (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2116/apft.htm)
In regards to what the author wrote, what do the BTDTs feel are credible suggestions?
I ask the question from a PL/CO/Training NCO's position, trying to plan worthwhile PT or training for the soldiers in a platoon/company.
In your experience, are some of the 'jackrabbits' (=>270 APFT) really slugs when humping the full battle rattle, or has the APFT been an effective indicator of a soldier's physical fitness?
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 17:14
Yes.
I do not feel that the APFT is an accurate measure of a soldier's ability to function under combat conditions with a combat load. I have seen it time and time again.
SF is famous for long marches at a very fast pace with heavy loads. And for the most part these are not young men by military standards. They are, however, very tough men. I have officially been to war once and been shot at numerous times. I have never done a push up or situp in response, nor have I ever had to run two miles to get to cover. I have, however, been forced to carry everything I own many kilometers to get to the event.
History does not lie. In WWII, just like today, the soldiers KNEW they were going into combat. They could have trained anyway they wanted to, yet those chose to do as described by Colonel Darby. Wonder why?
I have known poster children that could run like striped-assed Gazelles, yet the green tick and the ballistic vest is the great equalizer. I have known men that could barely break an 8 minute mile, yet they could put your house on their backs and walk to China without a break. Of course I have also known men that could run like the wind and ruck like Atlas.
Had a Team Sergeant once. Silver Star in Vietnam. Refused to run for PT. I asked him why.
"Ever been in combat?"
"No Team Sergeant."
"You don't run much in PF Flyers and catch me hose me shorts. Man runs in combat other than to attack or get to cover is one of two things. If he runs towards it he is a fool, if he runs away from it he is a coward. Roger?"
"Roger Team Sergeant."
"Good, now go get your ruck, we're going to walk for a couple of days."
Of course he could have been wrong...
Roguish Lawyer
06-16-2004, 17:39
Hey NDD:
Congrats on your 3,000th, errrr, 1,000th post! :D It was a good one.
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 18:18
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Hey NDD:
Congrats on your 3,000th, errrr, 1,000th post! :D It was a good one.
What the hell are you talking about?
Roguish Lawyer
06-16-2004, 18:19
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
What the hell are you talking about?
Why are people always asking me that question? LOL
The Reaper
06-16-2004, 18:20
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
What the hell are you talking about?
Isn't the God Gun sweet?
TR
Roguish Lawyer
06-16-2004, 18:23
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Why are people always asking me that question? LOL
Oh, now I get it . . . :rolleyes:
I'm a little slow.
The link posted leads to a page thats no longer there.
Is there another site I can view this information on?
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 20:01
Originally posted by aaronw
The link posted leads to a page thats no longer there.
Is there another site I can view this information on?
Why sure
Another source for information (www.google.com)
:D
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 20:06
The first link works for me
Footmobile
06-16-2004, 20:52
Me too.
Great link NDD.
Bill Harsey
06-16-2004, 20:54
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Why sure
Another source for information (www.google.com)
:D !!!!!LOL!!!!! That's my favorite one.
The Reaper
06-16-2004, 21:20
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The first link works for me
Me three.
The article reminds me of Jerry, who was not a pretty soldier, nor a 300 APFT guy, but he could shoot, hump his monster 18E ruck all day and half the night, and make commo every time. What more could you want from an 18E and a teammate?
Wish the Army understood what was important sometimes.
TR
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 21:39
Precisely one of the guys I was thinking about.
I thought he was very pretty - every time he made comms for the exfil bird most especially.:D
The Reaper
06-16-2004, 21:43
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Precisely one of the guys I was thinking about.
I thought he was very pretty - every time he made comms for the exfil bird most especially.:D
Boy was good in the air, and not a bad part time medic either.
TR
Footmobile
06-16-2004, 21:43
Does anyone know if any units have as yet to receive the "training plates" for the IBA? Same weight as the real deal but no ballistic properties and a fraction of the cost? They were supposed to come on line this year from what I read a while ago.
This would help this situation somewhat I believe. If your average squad leader in the 101st, 82nd, 1st MARDIV etc..had access to training plates for the body armor, which everone will wear in theatre, combat fitness will be greatly enhanced for soon to delpoy units.
There is a shortage of real deal SAPI plates, and your average grunt units are not issued them until days before deployment and have little opportunity to train with them.
Issue an equal number of rubber rifles, rubber machine guns and rubber mortars that are in the T & E to that unit. Keep them in a conex box, with your training plates and Bob's your Uncle. Also gotta have that weighted rubber ammo for those special occasions :D
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 21:52
While I understand cost considerations, I think they should be training with the real deal. With the way things are, maybe carrying on post isn't a bad idea. I think Spec Ops guys should be carrying 24/7. National carry permit. We do it OCONUS, why not CONUS?
Issue the kit and they're responsible for it. Take it home, whatever.
Footmobile
06-16-2004, 21:59
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Issue the kit and they're responsible for it. Take it home, whatever.
You can trust seasoned SOF troops, and a bunch of Warfighters with that. The sad truth is, you cant with the rest of the military. The real deal plates will get stolen and sold on Ebay for a thousand a pop. Training plates are just steel, and not nealy as expensive to replace when Pvt. Joe Shit The Ragman sells his SAPI plates to the local racket for a thousand dollars when he's broke as a joke.
Originally posted by Footmobile
Does anyone know if any units have as yet to receive the "training plates" for the IBA? Same weight as the real deal but no ballistic properties and a fraction of the cost? They were supposed to come on line this year from what I read a while ago.
This would help this situation somewhat I believe. If your average squad leader in the 101st, 82nd, 1st MARDIV etc..had access to training plates for the body armor, which everone will wear in theatre, combat fitness will be greatly enhanced for soon to delpoy units.
There is a shortage of real deal SAPI plates, and your average grunt units are not issued them until days before deployment and have little opportunity to train with them.
Issue an equal number of rubber rifles, rubber machine guns and rubber mortars that are in the T & E to that unit. Keep them in a conex box, with your training plates and Bob's your Uncle. Also gotta have that weighted rubber ammo for those special occasions :D I think my unit has something like 14 sets of IBA and plates. THe downside to this is they just grabbed some random plates and some random vests not taking into account size of plates matching the vests. I think we have about 8 issuable sets. Totally unacceptable. We are being told that we wont get the complete armor set until we hit kuwait. For the trainup, MUIC and other pre deployment activities no one will get used to shooting with it or just every day operations. We do have enough flack jackets but as you know its not the same.
I think there should also be weighted rubber/plastic m16 and m9 magazines to simulate a combat load of ammunition. Hopefully this can be implemented or at least considered as a training option.
NousDefionsDoc
06-16-2004, 22:04
I know, just wishful thinking...
brownapple
06-17-2004, 07:42
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The first link works for me
Doesn't for me. Get a "The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer." message.
Ghostrider
06-17-2004, 08:20
Originally posted by Greenhat
Doesn't for me. Get a "The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer." message.
Same here.:(
Smokin Joe
06-17-2004, 09:14
It worked for me on 6/17/04 at 0805 PST.
Footmobile,
What about going to the motorpool or whereever you guys have scrap metal and cut your own training plates? If the motor guys get pissed maybe cut some scrap metal off of APCs or tanks that are used for target practice.
Just a thought.