View Full Version : Domestic Terrorists
Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation, according to a gang threat assessment compiled by federal officials.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-29-ms13_N.htm
If the estimates are correct, then we as a nation are failing miserably to uphold one of the central tenets of the Constitution: to "...establish justice, (and) insure domestic tranquility..."
http://64.203.107.114/histdocs/constitution/
How many neighborhoods and innocent American citizens are being terrorized by thugs that live outside the law? I suggest we quit calling them 'gangs' and 'gang members.' Let's call them what they are, terrorist organizations and terrorists. Then, let's get down to the dirty business of ridding our streets of these organizations and their members.
Soft Target
01-30-2009, 13:04
My first comment when GWOT was declared - Will they include domestic terrorists? This may be part of the answer.
Peregrino
01-30-2009, 13:16
Be careful what you ask for. Once terrorism counter-action becomes the order of the day against criminals, where does it stop? Who gets to define what "organizations" warrant "terrorist" attention? Empower LOCAL LEOs to address criminal elements AS CRIMINALS and keep the Feds out of it. The problem is getting communities to demand accountability from their local police and judiciary. Declining community standards, apathetic citizenry, inadequate, underfunded, or just plain non-existant social programs, lacadaisical enforcement of existing laws, lenient judiciary, revolving door and or underfunded incarceration facilities, glorification of gang culture by "hollyweird" opinion shapers, etc., etc, ad nauseum. Until communities are willing to address the root conditions that provide fertile soil for the growth and sustainment of gangs the problem will continue to grow. Adding jackboots to the mix won't solve the problem.
...The problem is getting communities to demand accountability from their local police and judiciary. Declining community standards, apathetic citizenry, inadequate, underfunded, or just plain non-existant social programs, lacadaisical enforcement of existing laws, lenient judiciary, revolving door and or underfunded incarceration facilities, glorification of gang culture by "hollyweird" opinion shapers, etc., etc, ad nauseum. Until communities are willing to address the root conditions that provide fertile soil for the growth and sustainment of gangs the problem will continue to grow. Adding jackboots to the mix won't solve the problem.
I think for many of the reasons you stated, gang numbers continue to increase. If, as the article states, their estimated numbers are over 1 million, do you think local LE can effectively fight the problem? Alone?
The groups are becoming increasingly sophisticated and travel across local, state and international boundaries frequently.
"A rising number of U.S.-based gangs are seemingly intent on developing working relationships" with U.S. and foreign drug-trafficking organizations and other criminal groups to "gain direct access to foreign sources of illicit drugs," the report concludes.
An analogy that comes to mind is diagnosing and treating cancer. If you diagnose and treat it early enough, there are more options for treatment and they tend to be less drastic. If you wait until it has metastasized, treatment options are limited and tend to be much more drastic (kill the cancer without killing the patient).
incarcerated
01-31-2009, 03:41
I wish USA Today had run this story last October during election season.
We had 400,000+ known gang members and associates in Greater Los Angeles in 1993. There’s a lot more to the problem than strict members.
An excerpt from Stratfor’s Latin America Forecast yesterday:
http://www.stratfor.com/forecast/20090128_annual_forecast_2009_war_recession_and_re surgence_latin_america
“….But although Stratfor sees the situation in Mexico on a continued downward spiral, we do not envision a sharp escalation of violence spilling into the United States in 2009. The cartels must balance the need to move their product across the border with their need to fight law enforcement interference, and it is not in their interest to provoke a substantive response from the United States. For now, Mexican cartels use U.S. street and prison gangs to manage drug distribution and retail inside the United States. That relationship will continue, and potentially increase during 2009, but not to the extent that the cartels’ bases of operations will move north of the border. An increase in cartel-related gang violence in the United States is likely in 2009, but a massive increase in cartel violence that severely impacts U.S. civilians — or a high-profile increase in cartel corruption of U.S. politicians and law enforcement (congruent to the situation on the Mexican side of the border) — would be counterproductive. As long as that is true, the side effects of the cartel war that spill over the border will remain a law enforcement challenge — as opposed to an existential threat — for the United States.”
Be careful what you ask for. Once terrorism counter-action becomes the order of the day against criminals, where does it stop? Who gets to define what "organizations" warrant "terrorist" attention?
It seemed to work well against the "gangs" of the 20s and 30s... I would imagine there were folks that said the same thing about the RICO laws and such. Thing is, the Government simply needs the tools and laws to deal with these gangs. I say, give it to them. MS-13 is not a peaceful organization. If they should abuse the authority given them, there is always revolution, right? :D
I think for many of the reasons you stated, gang numbers continue to increase. If, as the article states, their estimated numbers are over 1 million, do you think local LE can effectively fight the problem? Alone?
The groups are becoming increasingly sophisticated and travel across local, state and international boundaries frequently.
I have to agree. And since the military has lowered standards, now they are soldiers and are even better trained in their abilities to wage chaos on the masses. However, LEOs need better training as well, it shouldn't just be relegated to special teams like SWAT. IMHO I don't see any problem calling gangbangers (especially those that are better organized and armed) domestic terrorists! Considering that just their presence alone is "terrorizing" to law abiding citizens.
I wish USA Today had run this story last October during election season.
We had 400,000+ known gang members and associates in Greater Los Angeles in 1993. There’s a lot more to the problem than strict members.
An excerpt from Stratfor’s Latin America Forecast yesterday:
http://www.stratfor.com/forecast/20090128_annual_forecast_2009_war_recession_and_re surgence_latin_america
“….But although Stratfor sees the situation in Mexico on a continued downward spiral, we do not envision a sharp escalation of violence spilling into the United States in 2009. The cartels must balance the need to move their product across the border with their need to fight law enforcement interference, and it is not in their interest to provoke a substantive response from the United States. For now, Mexican cartels use U.S. street and prison gangs to manage drug distribution and retail inside the United States. That relationship will continue, and potentially increase during 2009, but not to the extent that the cartels’ bases of operations will move north of the border. An increase in cartel-related gang violence in the United States is likely in 2009, but a massive increase in cartel violence that severely impacts U.S. civilians — or a high-profile increase in cartel corruption of U.S. politicians and law enforcement (congruent to the situation on the Mexican side of the border) — would be counterproductive. As long as that is true, the side effects of the cartel war that spill over the border will remain a law enforcement challenge — as opposed to an existential threat — for the United States.”
Last nite, Fox News had a segment on the Zetas (spelling), many of whom had left their military service and are highly trained, to work for the drug cartels in Mexico. There (according to Fox) was evidence of them infilitrating the US boarder, which doesn't surprise me.. if a poor unemployed Mexicans can do it, why can't they?
ha...
A midnight basketball program should solve most of the problem.
These are good kids that have just been cheated by eight years of failed Bush tax policies and radical radio talk show hosts like Rush O'Reily and that Limbaugh Savage guy. Most of you guys probably think we should just put them in jail, along with all the other unjustly jailed 'alleged' youths suffering from the oppression of eight years of failed Bush tax policies.
Think of all the jobs created to sign out basketballs, maintain nets, and clean the graffiti from the rec center walls. Republican leaders need to get with the program; these 400,000 plus wrongly accused citizens are a potentially 750,000 new votes if the Republicans would just show them we care. (and get some of them double registered)
...or maybe we could just get serious about dealing with crime. I'm not really sure.