View Full Version : Rucking - Cutting Waist Strap
Marshall
01-29-2009, 11:08
Hi, I found this paragraph on an article listed below:
"All rucksacks have a waste strap, you might as well cut this now because your first day at SFAS they will cut it for you and make your training a hell of a lot harder. Many recruits drop out because they are not prepared for this. Do it now and save yourself humiliation and time."
Source = http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/812135/how_to_train_for_the_us_army_special_pg2.html?cat= 50
I don't typically pay much attention to articles that have such gems as "waste strap", but in this case there is a SIGNIFICANT difference (to me) in the difficulty between a long, heavy ruck with and without one. Is this true and something that should be taken seriously? If so, I need to lighten my load a bit and work on exercising my lower back muscles. With my small-medium build, 50-60 pounds can be difficult to support entirely on the shoulders during 4-5 hour rucks...
Thanks for your insight and opinions.
Team Sergeant
01-29-2009, 11:17
Looks like pure bullshit to me. You are what you read.:rolleyes:
The guy's bio..... does it say "Graduate of the US Army Special Forces Qualification Course"?:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
(Graduate of the US Army Special Forces Qualification Course;))
Bio:
I'm a donkey man.
Education/Experience:
The Streets, School of Hard-NOX
Interests:
writing, history, herbal medicine, herbal remedies, medecine, diseases, conditions, all natural remedies, all natural treatment, ireland, ancient ireland, irish tradition, symbols, irish mythology, mythology, medical advise, indian medicine
Motto:
If theres poop in a bucket and it doesn't stink, then don't sirt it.
William Mattingly's Favorites
http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/187681/william_mattingly.html
The Reaper
01-29-2009, 11:36
Hi, I found this paragraph on an article listed below:
"All rucksacks have a waste strap, you might as well cut this now because your first day at SFAS they will cut it for you and make your training a hell of a lot harder. Many recruits drop out because they are not prepared for this. Do it now and save yourself humiliation and time."
Source = http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/812135/how_to_train_for_the_us_army_special_pg2.html?cat= 50
I don't typically pay much attention to articles that have such gems as "waste strap", but in this case there is a SIGNIFICANT difference (to me) in the difficulty between a long, heavy ruck with and without one. Is this true and something that should be taken seriously? If so, I need to lighten my load a bit and work on exercising my lower back muscles. With my small-medium build, 50-60 pounds can be difficult to support entirely on the shoulders during 4-5 hour rucks...
Thanks for your insight and opinions.
I would quit wasting my time reading unsubstantiated BS from unknown internet sources.
TR
Maybe someone should ask Mr William Mattingly if he would like to joins us??
:D:D
How Col. Beckwith Developed the Concept of Delta Force and Special Forces
April 14, 2008 by William Mattingly William Mattingly Published Content: 96 Total Views: 24,030 Favorited By: 11 CPs Full Profile | Subscribe | Add to Favorites Recommend (4)Single page Font SizeRead comments (2)
Colonel Charles Beckwith is one of the United States' most recognized colonels. He fought diligently in various wars and missions the United States has participated in, legally, and most likely, illegally. He is one of the founding officers of the elite unit inside the Army known as Delta Force, which for the longest time was a secret to the civilian population. Delta Force only came to popularity from its heroic work in Somalia, made famous by the movie Black Hawk Down. But Delta Force, unlike most civilians understand, is not the work of Colonel Beckwith. This article will describe how Colonel Beckwith gained the concepts to form Delta Force, based on his book, Delta Force: The Army's Elite Counterterrorist Unite.
Colonel Beckwith in 1960 went to England, with his wife and daughters, to participate in observing the British Special Air Services (S.A.S.), the equivilant in title to Untied States Army Green Berets, or Special Forces, except on a scale far above these units. The United States Special Forces units were not developed until 1958, far later than the British S.A.S.
During Colonel Beckwith's time with the S.A.S. he held the rank of Captain, earning their respect after several cultural barriers were broken. For example, in Britain the special forces hold very little care for their appearance or organization. Unlike the uptight Captain Beckwith, later to be Colonel, they were in his opinion, very undisciplined. But, Colonel Beckwith soon learned of their unusual ways and realized they were in fact the best soldiers in the world, beating him in nearly every competition until later in his training with them.
Once adapted to the British S.A.S. customs, Colonel Beckwith learned strategies to break men in special forces. He learned to place them in physically impossible conditions and see how they acted; testing to see if they had what it took to never give up. They would also ask S.A.S. impossible questions to answer, defining the person's morality in the situation. Finally, Colonel Beckwith observed the ability of the S.A.S. to accomplish long marches with 50 lbs. in amazing time, usually running.
These aspects that Colonel Beckwith learned during his time with the British S.A.S. have clearly filtered into our current Special Forces training and assessment, also known as SFAS. Another form of this is Ranger School, though its toughness is arguable when compared to SFAS and Navy Seal's Hell Week. It is without a doubt, Colonel Beckwith's determination that shaped American Special Forces.
Source: Delta Force: The Army's Elite Counterterrorist Unite. Charlie A. Beckwith and Donald Knox. Avon Publishing
The Reaper
01-29-2009, 12:01
Untied States Army Green Berets:rolleyes:
I am just proud to be able to gain from his wisdom.
He might even be of age to vote, though it does not appear that he graduated high school.
His television reviews are GTG though.:D
TR
Warrior-Mentor
01-29-2009, 12:07
"A great website is http://www.fatiguesarmynavy.com."
BOY OH BOY! I can't wait to buy my gear from this web site now!!
Marshall
01-29-2009, 12:33
Thanks for the feedback guys. The article(s) did set off my BS alarm, but I wanted to be sure. I don't want to fail in an area I could have prepared for, but I REALLY don't want to tweak/injure my back listening to a load of fecal matter.
Appreciated.
I don't want to fail in an area I could have prepared for, but I REALLY don't want to tweak/injure my back listening to a load of fecal matter.
There is a book,, written by one of the QP's,, forgot his name??
I think you can find it referenced here: http://www.warrior-mentor.com/
Been told it's a good read... :D:lifter:cool::D
Marshall
01-29-2009, 13:01
I'm already the proud owner of a copy, thanks. Is the "Warrior-Mentor" user on these forums the author / Lt Col Martin? If so, thanks for such a great read!
Although the information contained in the book was very beneficial, the workouts seem much less strenuous than even the "5 week workout" guide. I somehow feel I would be utterly pulverized if I showed up at SFAS having only done mild workouts and a couple of 10-mile rucks...
Warrior-Mentor
01-29-2009, 14:14
There's a piece of advice somewhere in there...
"Be prepared to go 12 miles a day with a ruck and do it day after day." (p.4-6)
Nothing says you can't increase the times or the distances if you're in better shape.
:lifter
JJ Thanks for the recommendation. Best place to buy GET SELECTED is here:
www.specialops.org ...or ask for it at your local Clothing Sales or PX.
You can find it on Amazon, but you'll pay more for it. ;)
Calvengeance
01-29-2009, 14:23
I wouldn't trust a guy that can't properly spell medicine with a tongue depressor.
Here at A&M, we do our humps without waist straps but I think that's mostly because everyone's ruck is broken. Should we keep doing it like that or try to start using waist straps?
x SF med
01-29-2009, 14:28
I wouldn't trust a guy that can't properly spell medicine with a tongue depressor.
Here at A&M, we do our humps without waist straps but I think that's mostly because everyone's ruck is broken. Should we keep doing it like that or try to start using waist straps?
A waist strap is to help secure and distribute the load of the ruck. Use it.
Team Sergeant
01-29-2009, 16:18
I'm already the proud owner of a copy, thanks. Is the "Warrior-Mentor" user on these forums the author / Joe Martin? If so, thanks for such a great read!
Never heard of him......:rolleyes:
Prester John
02-01-2009, 11:01
FWIW- I have NEVER used a ruck waist strap. I bridle at the idea of being charged for TA-50, however, so I usually buckle the strap to itself back around the frame, tighten it and tape the ends.
Tighten your shoulder straps and find that happy arch in your lower back that allows your kidney pad to ride on the top of your ass. You should be running anyway, and 55 pounds isn't heavy enough to really worry about re-distributing that weight.
At least that's what has worked for me. Put it in your kit bag and use it if the feeling grabs you.
Doug
I never used the waist strap on humps, not because I thought I was hard but because it seemed like a pain in the ass to mess with. Tended to follow Prester John's method. May reevaluate this as I continue with Mother Army but I just wanted to put in my DD $.02
x SF med
02-01-2009, 12:54
Dougie and Atilla-
even at 55lb, the lower part of the ruck bounces enough to do damage to the bones, muscles and organs (kidney, liver, and sciatic nerve are very close to the surface) that will come back to haunt you in later life.
As you progress in your training/SF career you will find that in the field keeping your 'ruck strapped tight' will help you keep your balance and keep from getting injured. Just my .02, I saw lots of guys with back and knee injuries because "it's just a short hump, I don't need to use the waist strap..." one chuck hole, one rolling branch, one scree slide where the ruck starts swinging and you can be toast.
There is a difference between smart and hard - stay smart.
Prester John
02-01-2009, 14:35
There is a difference between smart and hard - stay smart.
Duly noted sensei.
I'm a lot harder than I am smart. I appreciate the intelligent people looking out for me.
Doug
Dozer523
02-01-2009, 16:56
I don't know if this medically dumb or not but here goes. . .
Back when I was in Group (when it was Hard:p) nobody used the waist band. Something about being able to dump the ruck fast.
OH the discussions generated about when, where, why to dump a ruck another thread perhap. . .
Anyway. . . A lot of guys added extra cushioning to the pad. I guess I subscribed to the theory that "if a little was good a lot must be great". So I found a nice piece of foam about 5 inches thick; I cut it the the width and length of the pad, waterproofed it and secured it to the pad. I liked it. I did not notice any problem (that may be a personal issue). What I did notice was now the ruck was an extra 3 or 4 inches farther from the small of my back. Soon after this we switched to the SINGARs radio and,lo and behold it fit nicely,horizontallyin the space created. The radio was totally accessable, the antenna ran up the frame and fully extended did not point to me and shout "Shoot this guy first!" I also found that a Camelback fits there nicely too. A med pack for an IV will too. I can tuck most any "nice to have quick" thing in the space. Like I said, it didn't bother me, I didn't notice a significant weight shift etc etc. I also didn't notice anyone else doing it and that gives me pause because conventional wisdom can usually be trusted. Especially in the SF community. Or, maybe I'm really ahead of my . . . NAH!:p (oh and it made a really nice pillow for those poncho hootch bivs)
Blitzzz (RIP)
02-01-2009, 21:12
Way back when I was in the 7th, the team leader introduced us to waist belts. He actually purchased for the entire team. o after giving him a hard time we trained with them to prepare for a trip to Korea. The belts were padded and had quik releases ( for a quick ruck drop), but what we found after a little reconditioning was better agility with the rucks and shared weight load on the hips instead of all on the shoulders. Later in the 10th group we got the LOWEs and they came with padded belts. Any way thats all... Blitzzz
My experience with many a long heavy load is this.
Whatever ruck you use - pack it carefully to insure shifting of weight is kept to a minimum. Things you need, radios, med kits, chow and water should be easy to get to without "dumping" your ruck. I never could get my rucks load back tight if I failed to think ahead and pack accordingly. Heavy items should be kept close to the back/frame.
Use the waist strap when load bearing equipment and armor allows. It really does assist in distributing weight during diffent movements and causes less fatigue than not using one. Use of the waist belt also reduces lurching shifts when walking side slope or on scree. (as a medic, I treated many teammates that got spasms or worse from sudden tortional movements with a heavy load during a slide or fall)
Additionally, the shoulders straps can be loosened when going downhill and tightened when going up; keeping your load balanced over the hips and feet. Adjust occasionally throughout long movements to insure no hot spots occur on back / flanks or shoulders.
All that said, tactically you need to be able to easily drop and lift your ruck for quick movement. Both with and without noise discipline.
Practice movements, sitting, taking a knee and going prone to include rests and immediate actions to isure your QR's and buckles work / are positioned properly for use with and without gloves. No ruck flops!
Always insure your weapon is not rigged to interfere with donning / doffing your ruck.
Just my thoughts, take them or leave them.
All the best to the young studs reading this.:)
x SF med
02-02-2009, 10:04
... Later in the 10th group we got the LOWEs and they came with padded belts. Any way thats all... Blitzzz
The Lowe Alpine too big to jump Ruck - Ah I remember it well. Only being 5'8", by the time they got the jump harness set up for the monster - I was really disappointed - I had to carry the lower end of that sucker to be able to move... and in the field, the top of the ruck was 6-8" over the top of my head...
I had to use the waist strap on that bad boy just to keep it from dragging on the ground.
Bleh!:lifter
Blitzzz (RIP)
02-02-2009, 10:16
I don't know who was responsible for the Lowe Packs, but I typically I don't believe it was an end user. I was always happy with the Alice. Blitzzz
Lowe Alpine pack stayed in the locker I hated the birds nest of straps on that thing.
I had serious nerve damage inflicted on me by an Alice pack and it's narrow waist "pad". I went down to the PX and bought a civvie waist belt for a frame pack and had the riggers sew it to the Alice pad - worked for me.
My best ruck for for "heavy" missions was a 1944 back board (the molded plywood one) my father brought back from the "big one". I added a waist belt to it, but it was otherwise stock - you could strap ANYTHING to it, and it worked better for those 80-pound commo-guy loads than anything else I tried. The riggers had a cow the first time I went to jump it, but it was still in the manual (with an 81 baseplate strapped on) so they had to let me go. :)
Wayneo79
03-24-2009, 20:38
"Use the waist strap when load bearing equipment and armor allows. It really does assist in distributing weight during diffent movements and causes less fatigue than not using one. Use of the waist belt also reduces lurching shifts when walking side slope or on scree."
Yup, do what HE (Mcary) said... use the strap (in training) to reduce the possibility of injury to your VERY important back! And always walk softly to save your knees.
I NEVER used the waist strap, mostly due to my LBE hanging below my 4th point of contact, and, yah, I was a tough guy, all 160 lbs of me! Never had a lick of sense and always too stupid to know when to quit and start over the right way. After 28 years I'm really blessed my back is still functional but, I can tell it ain't right (mostly cuz of those jumps done between 13k gusts onto tundra or desert).
Train smart and train frequently (unless injured) to stay healthy, toned, strong and flexible (the REAL definition of "hard") to prepare for those days when you have other priorities.
funnyman
03-24-2009, 21:38
Without wearing the waist strap, I got "rucksack palsy" at the very end of SFAS. I could not lift my arm at all and it took about 6 months till it came back 100%. Maybe not wearing the waist strap was just cooincidence, but after that I always wore it.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200401/ai_n9347435/pg_10