View Full Version : Recurving trauma plates?
My compatriots and I have just purchased our own body armor. Level IIIA stand alone plates. They are of the single curve variety, my question....If I recurve the plate myself (using a press and no heat) will I compromise it's protection level?
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 06:58
What is the material ?
They came from Diamondback Tactical, but the website doesn't say what the metal is.
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 07:34
I know the owners of Diamondback Tactical, I think they would tell me what they know.
Great, I kind of figured if I asked it would be the old "If you do it we cannot be responsible.....however for $3000 we can help you out." Not saying that Diamondback would do that, just my experience with retailers.
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 07:51
Do you need to change an existing curve or impose a compound curve on the plate? (compound curve is a curve that bends in two directions at the same time like the front fender of a motorcycle). What we need to know is how malleable this stuff is cold and how much you need to bend it.
We are going to have to recurve an existing angle. The plates are single curved (side to side) but straight (up and down). We would like to curve the top 1/3 slightly back (towards the body) and possibly both upper corners (towards the body) as well (although these 2 small bends are not as important).
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 08:24
just for sake of clarity, are you trying to curve what is now straight? If so, that'll be the hard one. HOW THICK IS IT? Many "outback metal forming techniques" still in the bag here. I just left message with owner of Diamondback on this topic. If that doesn't get answered I'll try his cell phone.
Yeah, have to curve what is now straight. I plan on taking my plates home to Nebraska soon where I have a big press and a father with a lot of experience bending things. I am 95% sure I can make the required bends...I guess my main concern is, will I be weaking the plate to the point that I will lose all protection?
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 08:43
Not knowing the exact nature (condition) of the metal in the plate, I will guess that as long as you don't generate a stress crack from forming that the plates should maintain integrity. This is just a dumbass knifemaker speaking and more homework needs to be done. My thought on topics like this is, they had to form it in the beginning somehow.... Going across a formed curve is the hard one especially if the metal being formed has unusual strength characteristics. I'll keep trying Diamondback.
Bill Harsey
06-14-2004, 09:18
Your welcome. Diamondback has already called the makers of the plate to get information.
Why would you want to recurve the plates?
Wearing plates w/o soft body armor is stupid!
Just gives you a false sense of protection/security. Seen some penetration test done on plates alone, w/o the soft body armor.
The individual would have still been seriously injured.
All these companies selling plate carriers are just that..."Plate Carriers"! Made to be worn over soft body armor to provide additional protection to existing armor being worn.
NousDefionsDoc
06-20-2004, 12:15
Originally posted by Guy
Why would you want to recurve the plates?
Wearing plates w/o soft body armor is stupid!
Just gives you a false sense of protection/security. Seen some penetration test done on plates alone, w/o the soft body armor.
The individual would have still been seriously injured.
All these companies selling plate carriers are just that..."Plate Carriers"! Made to be worn over soft body armor to provide additional protection to existing armor being worn.
yeah! But how do you really feel about it?
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
yeah! But how do you really feel about it?
The new plates...that are made, so that they contour to the body. I believe they are made out of some sort of composite material.
The front/back are different. I've seen people confuse the two.
Before recurving, I would contact the the company that made them first.
Bill Harsey
06-21-2004, 09:08
Originally posted by Guy
Before recurving, I would contact the the company that made them first. I've made contact with the outfit they bought them from, waiting for answer. This is not the question they wanted either.
Just curious. I have the plates that say protection up to 7.62mm armor piercing. Does anyone have any intel on what will happen with these plates and no soft armor underneath. they are made by ceradyne.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 07:30
Viking,
Few plates can provide stand alone protection.
Is this (http://www.ceradyne.com/Products/Armor_Body.asp) what you have?
If so they don't have enough info on there web page to tell if they provide stand alone protection or not. If I were you I would call them.
DO most plates splinter or send fragments on the back side when they are hit with a round they are rated for or do they remain intact?
Thanks for the info. I e-mailed them one time and never got a response. They aren't stand alone. We had the ones that said protection for M80 7.62 Ball. Before we deployed, we got the ones for AP. They don't say stand-alone, but most of us just wear them in a plate carrier. I wish the army would pull the tab on some stand alones but they wouldn't. a guy in my company bought some from DBT and paid a boatload of money.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 09:51
Hoplite,
I have no idea. :confused:
Viking,
I just called Ceradyne Inc. for you (figuring you maybe in a place that makes it difficult for you to call them). I'm waiting to hear back from there Engineer. Can you give me specifics on the plates such as a NSN number, product code, or the name of your plate?
thanks a million. give me a couple of minutes. my biggest question is will i survive if hit and no soft armor underneath? i know it will mess me up, but getting shot isn't supposed to be fun is it?
It's Ballistic Upgrade Plate MCN 8470-01-F01-0287
7.62 Hard Steel Core Armor Piercing when over soft armor. So, if hit with regular AK what will happen? Just curious. thanks, the phone is touch and go sometimes.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 10:11
Not a problem. I will post as soon as the guy calls me back.
Thanks, we're about to have a team meeting, but i will be back on later.
Bill Harsey
07-12-2004, 13:38
just a brief note, I never got a return call from that oufit the armor originally came from that started this thread. Smokin' Joe, Thanks for the follow up, if you need help, PM me.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 13:41
I'm playing phone tag with the engineer.
Thank you Blademaster, I will if I hit a snag.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 14:20
Viking,
*Disclaimer- they have no solid data because they have not shot the plate without a level III+ vest behind it.*
*The plate was designed to be worn with a III+ vest but if you ellect not to wear the soft armor here is what you can expect.
It will probably stop 2 A.P. hits.
1 hit for sure
The more hits you take the more backface deformation will occur. After 2 hits it gets real iffy.
The backface shouldn't flake or splinter.
Shit I gotta run. More later.
Sinister
07-12-2004, 14:55
If they're Ceradyne SAPI plates you've probably got a high-pressure molded boron-carbide ceramic plate, not a steel plate. I imagine if you try bending it it'll crack and be useless.
If it was a homogeneous steel plate you could get a bend in it, but you'd also want to Magnaflux and x-ray it to make sure you hadn't put in stress cracks.
I never understood just using a steel plate in a carrier. once you get a ball round smacking your plate face it'll frag, sending all kinds of spall straight up into your throat and lower jaw area (even if it's got a spall liner on it. That round will spall in 360 degrees from the actual impact point if it was a straight-on hit).
Originally posted by Sinister
I never understood just using a steel plate in a carrier. once you get a ball round smacking your plate face it'll frag, sending all kinds of spall straight up into your throat and lower jaw area (even if it's got a spall liner on it. That round will spall in 360 degrees from the actual impact point if it was a straight-on hit).
Soft armor also covers more of the upper torso.
Types of rounds are not the only things you have to worry about...IED/VBIEDs, shrapnel, etc.
Provide protection too the chest area should you happen to get in a vehicle accident.
Thanks for the help Smokin Joe! I owe you one.
Smokin Joe
07-12-2004, 21:55
I left my notes on my desk so bare with me here.
1. Don't reshape the plate it will affect the integrity of the plate.
2. The Plate is an Upgrade to the standard SAPI plate and it should stop 2 hits from a A.P. rounds Anything more is iffy.
3. The soft armor should be worn to lessen the trauma from a shot.
4. If you choose to wear one or the other WEAR THE PLATE.
5. It is strongly recommended that you wear both soft and hard armor plate.
6. The Plate by itself SHOULD be able to stop multiple hits from M80 ball ammo on its own without the soft armor behind it.
Thats all I can remember right now I will post the rest when I get to my desk tomorrow.
Viking,
We are even. Thank your service and hard work. Anything else I can do for you or your team please don't hesitate to ask.
Joe