I Am Here: One Man's Experiment With the Location-Aware Lifestyle

[JJ_BPK]

From the people at WIRED. An interesting article by a super geek about his trials & tribulations with GPS and his iPhone.

I am sending this out, not to make you a geek,, nor do I advocate this life style.

No, I want you non-geeks to be aware of the technology and it's ability to do things you don't even think about..

Things that can create very big problems for you...

If you have problems with Mat's style or the content,, here is my suggestion:

- Don't get an iPhone and any phone with GPS,, not GSM, that's something different..

- Don't let your kid read this note,, they do understand and know you don't, knowledge is power..

- If you are already into the iPhone, be very very careful, you are being tracked by someone, be it GOOGLE, Steve Jobs, or your boss. The data is there for the taking,, it's free,, and with articles like this one, everyone knows...

Be aware, be informed, be careful..

Your Friendly FOG,, out of breath,, while trying to keep up with my kids...

PS: This article has some spiffy pics, may be worth reading the original??


I Am Here: One Man's Experiment With the Location-Aware Lifestyle By Mathew Honan 01.19.09


Mathew Honan: 37.769958 °N, 122.467233 °W.
Photo: Jason Madara
Inside the GPS Revolution

I'm baffled by WhosHere. And I'm no newbie. I built my first Web page in
1994, wrote my first blog entry in 1999, and sent my first tweet in October
2006. My user number on Yahoo's event site, Upcoming.org: 14. I love
tinkering with new gadgets and diving into new applications. But WhosHere
had me stumped. It's an iPhone app that knows where you are, shows you other
users nearby, and lets you chat with them. Once it was installed and
running, I drew a blank. What was I going to do with this thing?
So I asked for some help. I started messaging random people within a mile of
my location (37.781641 °N, 122.393835 °W), asking what they used WhosHere
for.

My first response came from someone named Bridget, who, according to her
profile, at least, was a 25 year-old woman with a proclivity for scarves.
"To find sex, asshole," she wrote.

"I'm sorry? You mean it's for finding people to have sex with?" I zapped
back.

"Yes, I use it for that," she wrote. "It's my birthday," she added.

"Happy birthday," I offered.

"Send me a nude pic for my birthday," she replied.

A friendly offer, but I demurred. Anonymous geoshagging is not what I had in
mind when I imagined what the GPS revolution could mean to me.

The location-aware future-good, bad, and sleazy-is here. Thanks to the
iPhone 3G and, to a lesser extent, Google's Android phone, millions of
people are now walking around with a gizmo in their pocket that not only
knows where they are but also plugs into the Internet to share that info,
merge it with online databases, and find out what-and who-is in the
immediate vicinity. That old saw about how someday you'll walk past a
Starbucks and your phone will receive a digital coupon for half off on a
Frappuccino? Yeah, that can happen now.

Simply put, location changes everything. This one input-our coordinates-has
the potential to change all the outputs. Where we shop, who we talk to, what
we read, what we search for, where we go-they all change once we merge
location and the Web.
I wanted to know more about this new frontier, so I became a geo-guinea pig.
My plan: Load every cool and interesting location-aware program I could find
onto my iPhone and use them as often as possible. For a few weeks, whenever
I arrived at a new place, I would announce it through multiple social
geoapps. When going for a run, bike ride, or drive, I would record my
trajectory and publish it online. I would let digital applications help me
decide where to work, play, and eat. And I would seek out new people based
on nothing but their proximity to me at any given moment. I would be totally
open, exposing my location to the world just to see where it took me. I even
added an Eye-Fi Wi-Fi card to my PowerShot digital camera so that all my
photos could be geotagged and uploaded to the Web. I would become the most
location-aware person on the Internets!

The trouble started right away. While my wife and I were sipping stouts at
our neighborhood pub in San Francisco (37.770401 °N, 122.445154 °W), I
casually mentioned my plan. Her eyes narrowed. "You're not going to announce
to everyone that you're leaving town without me, are you? A lot of weirdos
follow you online."

Sorry, weirdos-I love you, but she has a point. Because of my work, many
people-most of them strangers-track my various Flickr, Twitter, Tumblr, and
blog feeds. And it's true; I was going to be gone for a week on business.
Did I really want to tell the world that I was out of town? It wasn't just
leaving my wife home alone that concerned me. Because the card in my camera
automatically added location data to my photos, anyone who cared to look at
my Flickr page could see my computers, my spendy bicycle, and my large
flatscreen TV all pinpointed on an online photo map. Hell, with a few clicks
you could get driving directions right to my place-and with a few more you
could get black gloves and a lock pick delivered to your home.

To test whether I was being paranoid, I ran a little experiment. On a sunny
Saturday, I spotted a woman in Golden Gate Park taking a photo with a 3G
iPhone. Because iPhones embed geodata into photos that users upload to
Flickr or Picasa, iPhone shots can be automatically placed on a map. At home
I searched the Flickr map, and score-a shot from today. I clicked through to
the user's photostream and determined it was the woman I had seen earlier.
After adjusting the settings so that only her shots appeared on the map, I
saw a cluster of images in one location. Clicking on them revealed photos of
an apartment interior-a bedroom, a kitchen, a filthy living room. Now I know
where she lives.

Geo-enthusiasts will assure you that these privacy concerns are overplayed:
Your cell phone can be used to pinpoint your location anyway, and a skilled
hacker could likely get that data from your mobile carrier. Heck, in the UK,
tracking mobile phone users is as simple as entering their number on a Web
site (as long as they give permission). But the truth is, there just aren't
that many people who want to prey on your location. Still, I can't help
being a little skittish when I start broadcasting my current position and
travel plans. I mean, I used to stop newspaper delivery so people wouldn't
realize I was out of town. Now I've told everyone on Dopplr that I'm going
to DC for five days.

And location info gets around. The first time I saw my home address on
Facebook, I jumped-because I never posted it there. Then I realized it was
because I had signed up for Whrrl. Like many other geosocial applications,
Whrrl lets you cross-post to the microblogging platform Twitter. Twitter, in
turn, gets piped to all sorts of other places. So when I updated my location
in Whrrl, the message leaped first to Twitter and then to Facebook and
FriendFeed before landing on my blog, where Google indexed it. By updating
one small app on my iPhone, I had left a giant geotagged footprint across
the Web.

A few days later I had another disturbing realization. It's a Tuesday and
I'm blowing off a work meeting in favor of a bike ride through Golden Gate
Park (37.771558 °N, 122.454478 °W). Suddenly it hits me-since I would later
post my route online with the date and time, I would be just a Google search
("Mat Honan Tuesday noon") away from getting busted. I'm a freelancer, and
these are trying economic times. I can't afford to have the Internet ratting
me out like that.

To learn how to deal with this new openness, I met with Tom Coates at Caffe
Centro (37.781694 °N, 122.394234 °W). Coates started Fire Eagle, a sort of
location clearinghouse: You tell Fire Eagle where you are, and it sends that
info to a host of other geoapps, like Outside.in and Bizroof. Not only does
Fire Eagle save you from having to update the same information on multiple
programs, it also lets you specify the level of detail to give each
app-precise location, general neighborhood, or just the city you're in. The
idea is that these options will mitigate privacy concerns. In addition to
this, as Coates puts it: "You have to have the ability to lie about your
location."

Any good social geoapp will let you type in a fake position manually, Coates
says. Great news; I didn't need to get busted for missing meetings-or
deadlines-ever again.

Continued @

www.wired.com/print/gadgets/wireless/magazine/17-02/lp_guineapig

[Saoirse]

JJ, thanks for sharing this!
Interesting article. These things have always fascinated me.
There are two sides to this, as I see it. There is the beneificial side of tracking loved one's and those at high risk of abduction. Looking at it from an LEO point of view, that is great. Makes the job easier provided the device is still on the person (victim). If the perp is stupid enough (and most all of them are) to snatch the phone for his/her personal use.... also a helpful tool in finding them. There will no longer be the need to triangulate the cell single when the POS is using it, because now they can get to withing just meters of the perp.
However, if one really values their privacy, that is something that will become part of the not so distant past, these apps/devices are NOT for them. Everytime I see the commercial about being careful of what you post on the internet because everyone and anyone can see it (teen girl gets tons of questions as she moves through school, the mall, the movie theater about her tats and what color underwear she is wearing), I CRINGE. Young people are more inclined toward all this new technology and are not aware enough of how it can affect their private lives, when they do, it's too late.
When the writer realized that his home address was posted on the net and he hadn't posted it, that raised an eyebrow. Not surprisingly though.
The writer states that hackers can easily get that information about us through all those apps, even if we don't run all the proggies. It's clear that at any given time a hacker can turn stalker. if they are so obsessively inclined. I shiver at the thought, I was a victim of nontechnological stalking and that was frightening enough. I cannot image being stalked without the stalker even being at my location at that immediate time.
I can see the benefit of using some of the apps. However, I don't want people knowing my business (I try to keep what I post on the net about myself to a bare minimum). These are apps that can easily be used against us. People (and the very people who use these Ipods and Iphones) complain all the time about "big brother" and nontheless they have willingly opened themselves up to it. I guess that is why I have kept the same cell for 3 years. It works, it sends and receives calls and once and awhile I do take a picture. But I want my cellphone to remain a phone, not every gadget that I own (and those are few and far between) bundled up in one neat little package. I like gadgets as much as anyone but I am not a raven that feels the need to covet in my nest the shiney things.

[Slantwire]

- Don't get an iPhone and any phone with GPS,, not GSM, that's something different.

As I understand FCC e911 regulations, pretty soon every cell phone sold / activated is required to have GPS. I believe we're in a transition phase, with the deadline coming up in the next couple of years. As a practical matter, pretty much any cell phone you may have gotten in the last five years or so already has GPS.

It doesn't matter if the phone lets you, the user, actually get GPS data. Most of them don't. The idea is that when you make a 911 call, the GPS receiver kicks on and reports to the authorities, so they can locate the emergency faster.

Supposedly it's only for e911 service. The GPS circuitry is turned off the rest of the time (to save power, more than privacy). It can be turned on "only" in an emergency. If, of course, the hardware and software are designed correctly and impossible to compromise. Riiiiiight....

As far as voluntarily using apps like that, TS's advice to 18X candidates (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20073) applies. But it's getting harder and harder to avoid inadvertent information leakage.

[Ret10Echo]

Under Phase II E911 rules a wireless carrier has to provide the Automatic Location Information (ALI) to a call center within six months of a request. The information that comes in must include the latitude and longitude of the caller. The accuracy standard is 50 to 300 meters depending on whether it is a handset-based or tower based solution.

This level of accuracy is less than what the 911 community would want. Off hand many from the EMS side will say they want accuracy within 3 - 6 inches, especially in an urban environment. (which side of the wall or which cube you are in). Of course that has to be tied into a fairly good mapping system in order to conduct proper dispatching.

A real easy solution to privacy issues is to not carry a cellular device..use a credit card...etc...etc...

[Slantwire]

A real easy solution to privacy issues is to not carry a cellular device..use a credit card...etc...etc...

Or carry one with the battery out. If you need to, you can pop the battery in and make a call. I figure any situation where I'm physically incapable of inserting the battery, I'd probably be incapable of dialing anyway.

Somewhat related: Is anyone familiar with "onion routing (http://www.torproject.org/)?" Does anyone have an opinion, is it actually effective?

[jasonglh]

I keep my GPS and WIFI turned off on my iPhone because they are both battery suckers and the iPhone already has crappy battery life as it is.

Other than that I love it!

[Sten]

Or carry one with the battery out. If you need to, you can pop the battery in and make a call. I figure any situation where I'm physically incapable of inserting the battery, I'd probably be incapable of dialing anyway.

Somewhat related: Is anyone familiar with "onion routing (http://www.torproject.org/)?" Does anyone have an opinion, is it actually effective?

Jack Bauer is that you:D?

[JJ_BPK]

Jack Bauer is that you:D?


-. . ...- . .-.
..- ... . -- -.--
.-. . .- .-.. -.
.- -- . . .

[Sten]

-. . ...- . .-.
..- ... . -- -.--
.-. . .- .-.. -.
.- -- . . .

... --- .-. .-. -.-- .. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -. --- - -- .- -.- . - .... .- - -- .. ... - .- -.- . .- --. .- .. -. .-.-.-

[JJ_BPK]

I posted the thread because new tools and software are becoming available to all.

GPS on cell phones is not new news. And it's inclusion had some fine reasons,, like tracking 911 calls.

With the open system archecture and a kid with a 6th grade education, we will all be amazed..

Now, if only I had this to track my kids 20 yrs ago.......

[Slantwire]

Jack Bauer is that you:D?

What, did he do that at some point?

I just figure removing the power source is the only foolproof way to prevent electronics from operating. Sure, an iPhone user can tell his iPhone to turn off its GPS and wifi, but there's no hard evidence that it complied. The software may tell you that it's not uploading your 12-digit grid to the internet, but how do you know? A phishing site will tell you it's not sending your account information to Belarus, either.

[Sten]

What, did he do that at some point?

I just figure removing the power source is the only foolproof way to prevent electronics from operating. Sure, an iPhone user can tell his iPhone to turn off its GPS and wifi, but there's no hard evidence that it complied. The software may tell you that it's not uploading your 12-digit grid to the internet, but how do you know? A phishing site will tell you it's not sending your account information to Belarus, either.


He did and I did not mean any offense to you.

[Slantwire]

... --- .-. .-. -.-- .. .-- .. .-.. .-.. -. --- - -- .- -.- . - .... .- - -- .. ... - .- -.- . .- --. .- .. -. .-.-.-

.--- .- -.-. -.- -... .- ..- . .-.
-.-. .... ..- -.-. -.- -. --- .-. .-. .. ...
--- .-.
-- .. -. .. -.. .. - -.- .-

[Slantwire]

He did and I did not mean any offense to you.

I know. We're good.

[Ret10Echo]

What, did he do that at some point?

I just figure removing the power source is the only foolproof way to prevent electronics from operating.

Of course this makes the assumption that the device does not have an internal memory battery (other than the prime power) that could provide signaling....

[The Reaper]

Or you could wrap it in a Faraday cage, using the tinfoil from your hats.

TR

[Sten]

Or you could wrap it in a Faraday cage, using the tinfoil from your hats.

TR

You need to consider paying for everything with cash as well. Any transaction with a credit card/ATM and your tracked.

[Team Sergeant]

I have an iphone and will now purchase that application in "hopes" that some terrorist/s will lock-on to my signal and come find me.....;)

Team Sergeant

For all you tin-foil hat types, welcome to the world where you can be found, any time-any place. And, if it is your extreme desire not to be found might I suggest the dumpster diving lifestyle of a vegan. (bon a petite)

[Slantwire]

Or carry one with the battery out. If you need to, you can pop the battery in and make a call. I figure any situation where I'm physically incapable of inserting the battery, I'd probably be incapable of dialing anyway.

After TR's post, perhaps I should clarify this comment. I don't actually do this, I'm not that paranoid. (Yet?) I just tossed it out there as an alternative to completely rejecting cell phones.

[AngelsSix]

Geez, and I thought I was paranoid..........

I guess I could care less if someone "tracks" me, I have no reason to hide.

Although, this might cause a few more marraiges to dissolve!!:D

[Defender968]

I guess I'll put on my tinfoil hat again, but as an x LEO I really don't want folks to be able to find me at any time, seems to me that's a great way to get ambushed by some of the scum bags I've put away. I understand Joe Q Public not caring, but for LEO's and Detention officers this is a train wreck waiting to happen IMHO. I won't be subscribing for the same reason I don't want my phone number listed or my address in the phone book. Ultimately can they find me it they’re determined… sure, but I don’t want to make it easy.

[Team Sergeant]

I guess I'll put on my tinfoil hat again, but as an x LEO I really don't want folks to be able to find me at any time, seems to me that's a great way to get ambushed by some of the scum bags I've put away. I understand Joe Q Public not caring, but for LEO's and Detention officers this is a train wreck waiting to happen IMHO. I won't be subscribing for the same reason I don't want my phone number listed or my address in the phone book. Ultimately can they find me it they’re determined… sure, but I don’t want to make it easy.

You'd be better off maintaining the appropriate level of situational awareness than thinking you cannot be found.

As a former LEO at least you have the ability to carry a concealed firearm anytime any where in the entire country. I do not have that freedom or right.

You put bad guys in jail, we(Special Forces soldiers) hunted and killed terrorists on a global level.

Also, in most states you mess with a cop and you get the death penalty, either when they catch you or after they try you in a court of law. You kill one of us after we leave the service, no big deal.

I've yet to hear an SF soldier complain about the "bad" guys we had to deal with.

Sort of puts things in perspective doesn't it? Let me know if you need more tinfoil.

Team Sergeant

[Pete]

.... but as an x LEO I really don't want folks to be able to find me at any time, seems to me that's a great way to get ambushed by some of the scum bags I've put away. ........

It is not that hard to find people if you start with a name and a general location. If you put somebody away they have your name on the paperwork and they know what you look like.

Very simple to take it from there.

Most people don't check the peep hole, step out on the porch, clear the block and then walk out to get the morning paper.

[The Reaper]

Most people don't check the peep hole, step out on the porch, clear the block and then walk out to get the morning paper.

They DON'T???

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Guys 'n Gals,
We have a huge business franchise opportunity here, micro Faraday Cages for establishments that patrons may desire some 'un-locatableness" when visiting.

of course I'm only thinking about the saw shop or sporting goods store....

[Defender968]

It is not that hard to find people if you start with a name and a general location. If you put somebody away they have your name on the paperwork and they know what you look like.

Very simple to take it from there.

Most people don't check the peep hole, step out on the porch, clear the block and then walk out to get the morning paper.

Pete I get what you're saying, you can't mitigate all risk, but at the same time you can make yourself a harder target to get at. As for what I look like the nice thing that many criminals will attest to is that we cops look allot alike on the job, all wearing the same uniform, many the same height and build all driving the same cars, that mitigates the what I look like part at least a little. I've run into people I've dealt with on the job off duty and had them not recognize me without the uniform, but then again I've had some that did.

The reality is when I was working as an LEO if someone really wanted to get me they would just have to figure out what shift I was on and follow me home afterwards. But again that takes a pretty motivated criminal and I realize I can't do much about that individual except keep my SA up. I simply want to make myself and my family as hard a target as possible, doesn’t mean I'm low crawling to the mailbox :cool: but if there are simple things like not having a listed phone number, not having my address in the phone book, or not giving out my exact location on earth in real time I'm all about doing those to keep me and my family as safe as I can, but that's just my theory, maybe I should wear a tinfoil hat more often. As others have said just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out to get me. ;)

[Defender968]

You'd be better off maintaining the appropriate level of situational awareness than thinking you cannot be found.

As a former LEO at least you have the ability to carry a concealed firearm anytime any where in the entire country. I do not have that freedom or right.

You put bad guys in jail, we(Special Forces soldiers) hunted and killed terrorists on a global level.

Also, in most states you mess with a cop and you get the death penalty, either when they catch you or after they try you in a court of law. You kill one of us after we leave the service, no big deal.

I've yet to hear an SF soldier complain about the "bad" guys we had to deal with.

Sort of puts things in perspective doesn't it? Let me know if you need more tinfoil.

Team Sergeant

Copy that TS, I apologize if I came off as complaining about bad guys, that was not my intention in any way. I do understand you and all the other members of SF have hunted the worst of the worst in far way places and I thank you all for that.

I completely agree with you on the SA, I try to keep mine up, and I don't for a second think that I or any other person is not able to be found, we are, but I personally don't want to make it any easier by utilizing anything like this program.

As for the CCW, I carry on the same permit most of you do, to be able to carry anywhere and anytime you have to be a retired LEO, which I am not, just an x-LEO for now.

Again I apologize if I came off wrong or as complaining, that was not my intention, my only intention was to share my perspective on this program in regards to personal security.

[alright4u]

In my neighborhood, I have five or more police officers for neighbors in a 1/4 mile radius. Two are vice/ metro undercover narcotics types. They do not look like police. These men look like gang types to illegals or like everyday construction types, and; they do not advertise what they do. All are great neighbors. I would have never quessed the two undercover types were police. They were neighbors for many years before I knew what they did, and; that was purely due to a sting next door on a lease to own neighbor. I thank them for keeping this neighborhood crime free.

[ACE844]

here's something else to fuel the paranoia..It's a proposed law which will track your personal home Internet usage.




GOP: ISPs, Wi-Fi Must Keep Logs For Police
Proposed Data Retention Law Covers All Internet Providers, Even Your Home Wi-Fi Access, To Combat Child Porn

Comments Comments35

Feb. 20, 2009

(CNET) Republican politicians on Thursday called for a sweeping new federal law that would require all Internet providers and operators of millions of Wi-Fi access points - even hotels, local coffee shops and home users - to keep records about users for two years to aid police investigations.

The legislation, which echoes a measure proposed by one of their Democratic colleagues three years ago, would impose unprecedented data retention requirements on a broad swath of Internet access providers and is certain to draw fire from businesses and privacy advocates.

"While the Internet has generated many positive changes in the way we communicate and do business, its limitless nature offers anonymity that has opened the door to criminals looking to harm innocent children," U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, said at a press conference on Thursday. "Keeping our children safe requires cooperation on the local, state, federal, and family level."

Joining Cornyn was Texas Rep. Lamar Smith, the senior Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, and Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, who said such a measure would let "law enforcement stay ahead of the criminals."

Two bills have been introduced so far - S.436 in the Senate and H.R.1076 in the House. Each of the companion bills is titled "Internet Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act," or Internet Safety Act. The rest of the article located at this link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/20/tech/cnettechnews/main4814896.shtml?tag=main_home_storiesBySection

[Pete]

I would think the Republicans would have better things to do these days.

I guess not.

[Richard]

Here's technology for you! :p

Richard's $.02 :munchin

THREE WOMEN, TWO YOUNGER AND ONE SENIOR CITIZEN, WERE SITTING NAKED IN A SAUNA.

SUDDENLY THERE WAS A BEEPING SOUND. THE YOUNG WOMAN PRESSED HER FOREARM AND THE BEEP STOPPED. THE OTHERS LOOKED AT HER QUESTIONINGLY.

"THAT WAS MY PAGER," SHE SAID. "I HAVE A MICROCHIP UNDER THE SKIN OF MY ARM."

A FEW MINUTES LATER, A PHONE RANG. THE SECOND YOUNG WOMAN LIFTED HER PALM TO HER EAR. WHEN SHE FINISHED, SHE EXPLAINED, "THAT WAS MY MOBILE PHONE. I HAVE A MICROCHIP IN MY HAND."

THE OLDER WOMAN FELT VERY LOW -TECH. NOT TO BE OUT DONE, SHE DECIDED SHE HAD TO DO SOMETHING JUST AS IMPRESSIVE, SO SHE STEPPED OUT OF THE SAUNA AND WENT TO THE BATH ROOM. WHEN SHE RETURNED A FEW MINUTES LATER, A PIECE OF TOILET PAPER WAS HANGING FROM HER REAR END.

THE OTHERS RAISED THEIR EYEBROWS AND STARED AT HER. AFTER A COUPLE OF MINUTES, THE OLDER WOMAN SEEMED TO FINALLY NOTICE THE PIECE OF PAPER AND SAID, "OH...WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT....I'M GETTING A FAX!!"

[Shades of Grey]

I found out about this website a couple of weeks ago; zabasearch.com. All you need is the persons name and state or phone number. I tried my name and it came up with all my address' for the past 5 or 6 years. I put my wife's name in, on a different computer and through whatever public records it has access to, gave all her/our previous addresses and linked her name to mine! Apparently it compiles public information from all the city, county and state entities. According to the individual at zaba.com who seems to have done research into the subject, you can't get your name removed. Just thought everyone should be aware of this site, almost worse than the phones mentioned in the previous posts.

[Defend]

For those of us who are Ham operators, here's an eye opener. As long as I have been involved in the field, we have prided ourselves in being a bit safer than our non-ham counterparts who rely on cell phones and computers. We know when SHTF our skills are the ones relied on to provide communications while newer, more "cutting edge" technology is restored. While we are better equipped to survive terrorist attacks and natural disasters, we might not be much better off in the privacy world than a punk kid with an iPhone.

Those wonderful tools that help us look up addresses to send QSL cards? They can also be security nightmares. In fact, that's the one thing that has linked my name to my address on the internet. Thanks to city-data.com, you can now get a list of all of the hams with a home address within any given municipality by googling any hams name. I even found some friends I didn't know were hams.

I use proxy/VPN systems online for security, particularly when overseas. I wish I had the same option for a physical address. Makes me question how bad I want to keep that license. I have the skills- that's what matters to me. Screw the license, I don't want my personal information to be on a billboard. Problem is, it looks like the damage has been done.

- "****** clear but monitoring"

[Dozer523]

Looking for a few opinions here.
I am trying to play Chief Justice at the Dozer domicile. . . . Was not able to keep this one off the docket and it's the First Tuesday in October.
The case litigants are My Reason for Living (Spouse) and the Bright Center of My Universe (16YO D, Honor Roll, Debate, Drama Clubs).
BACKGROUND: Cell phones have GPS, GPS can be accessed from home/office computers. The exact where-abouts of said cell-phone and user can be ascertained to within 50 feet -- incuding actual street address.
ARGUMENT: BCMU now refers to her cell phone as "the Ankle Monitor" MRFL calls it "Safety". BCMU sought clarification of "Clear and Present Danger" MRFL responded with "Peace of Mind". BCMU came back with "Like WMD?" (I started looking at the door). MRFL started looking at me with THAT "Do Something" look. (I started looking at Little Dude hoping he would think a game of catch would be nice.)
BCMU pressed the attack. "It violates my Constitutional Rights." At this point I knew this was not 'chance contact' but a well thought out Deliberate Attack. (I started staring hard at Little Dude.)
MRFL immediately fired the FPF with "Oh, YEAH? which one?"
(I am moving toward Little Dude; making tossing gestures with my hand.)
BCMU "First, Fourth, and Fifth"
Me (whispering): Little Dude, Let's go play some catch . . . Now!"
MRFL "Where do you think YOUR going?" BCMU "Yeah, Duh ADD. Where ARE you going? This is Reeeeeeeally important."
Me. "Little Dude want to play catch, he asked . . . first" (I am hoping no one notices it is dark and Little Dude is in pajamas.)
Little Dude "I did n. . ."
Me. "Little Dude, get your mitt and mine, NOW." (Hands up in my patented 'what's-a-dad-to-do' posture) "Okay, this is important. I'll hear oral arguement . . . soon."

"Soon" is coming up fast! Advice? Anyone. Dad-erly advice or Constitutional Lawyerly advice?

[Richard]

Looking for a few opinions here.

Dozer,

She's smart - give her a couple of days to read the info on this web-site and plan to have a discussion on its contents, your fears as adults, your responsibilities as parents, the 'certainly, we trust you' but the 'just in case' value of her phone's GPS, etc.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US

Have her do the Quick Search for Missing Children - e.g., IL, Female, 1 yr - and see how many pages pop up. Just read a couple of the posters together. :eek:

Time and a bit of solid info might preclude your having to play either referee or Solomon with this one. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[Sten]

Looking for a few opinions here.

"Soon" is coming up fast! Advice? Anyone. Dad-erly advice or Constitutional Lawyerly advice?


You could stash a 2ed "off the family grid" GPS phone in the glove box and let her take your car all the time...

[ZonieDiver]

Looking for a few opinions here.

I'm not sure how to advise here! Mine "BCMUs" are "grown and gone." I tried to put myself in your same situation. It makes my head hurt.

I think - from the few cases I have read about - that the cell phone technology has not prevented "bad stuff" from happening. It did lead some parents to the area where their daughter's body had been buried. (Sorry to go there.)

I guess, unless one is going to monitor the person's whereabouts 24/7 when they are out of one's sight, this technology would not be of much help. Sounds to me like you and your MRFL have done a good job thus far with the BCMU. I'd advise, until proven otherwise, that you follow the advice of Ronald Reagan - "trust but verify". IF your young ones trust you, they'll be open and honest. If they don't, they'll become secretive. Just my thoughts...

[The Reaper]

Why would you knowing your MINOR daughter's location bother her?

She told you where she was going, right?

She can always call and frag the plan, right?

What situation does she envision where you knowing where she is will do her harm?

She wouldn't lie to you, right?

I always heard that you should never advertise a capability that you intend to use. How does she know that you can track her?

TR

[Dozer523]

Why would you knowing your MINOR daughter's location bother her? BCMU's point is "you should trust me to be where I told you I was" As to the MINOR issue, I'm hesitant to play that card. We had a discussion on "when does the Constitution go into effect" once before. BCMU quoted "we hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are endowed by their Creator . . . So 'DUh ADD' when do you suppose the Creator does the endowing? Thus, we tend toward the notion that 'minor' doesn't count until a major violation

She told you where she was going, right?
Exactly, and without fail that is where she goes.

She can always call and frag the plan, right?
Yup. And that is what she does.

What situation does she envision where you knowing where she is will do her harm? Ahh the rub. BCMU None. MRFL Anywhere there are boys.

She wouldn't lie to you, right? No, and i truly believe that.

I always heard that you should never advertise a capability that you intend to use. How does she know that you can track her? Agreed, but when MRFL activated the capability everyone "tagged" got an "Alert" text message from the carrier. The saving grace here is it is in the open. I don't like the thought of the "You follow me via my phone, where is the trust . . . do I deserve this?
TR
TR Thanks,
Zonie "I'd advise, until proven otherwise, that you follow the advice of Ronald Reagan - "trust but verify". IF your young ones trust you, they'll be open and honest. If they don't, they'll become secretive. Just my thoughts... And nothing will cause that secretiveness faster that unsupported suspicion. Thanks

Sten "You could stash a 2ed "off the family grid" GPS phone in the glove box and let her take your car all the time..." LOL Actually, BCMU suggested this. Occassionally I visit the Maintenance facility in East St Louis (have to visit the hanger queen and stay in the good graces of a certain CW2) It is not too far from Larry Flints. "Dad, just trade phones with me and park there. Then take your time with Chief. Mom would learn her lesson right?"
sez me: "Honey, I SO like being married to Mom.' NG2H

[Diablo Blanco]

3 Reasons to not have an iPhone (from this thread)
1. You don't know if you are being tracked
2. You can't remove the battery
3. You can't run multiple applications at the same time.

Two other major operating systems on phones that are worth checking out are the Android OS and Windows Mobile OS.

Android is pioneered by Google and as such there are privacy concerns. However it is open source and anyone can look through the source code. If there were any glaring violations of prrivacy you would here about it. Secondly, it is Java based and permission based. No app can do anything without your permission. When you first install an application on it (its very easy) it will notify you of what the application needs permission to do. This includes GPS access and internet/data access.

Windows Mobile is pioneered by Microsoft. Like the desktop version you are able to see what programs are currently running and processes as well. You can kill any process and program you don't want running. I don't know of any other mainstream phones that let you do this. If you don't know what I mean and are running Windows press Ctrl-Shift-Esc and you will be shown a list of running applications, there is a tab that says processes, this gives you a lot of control.

Android doesn't have a process/app list like Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile doesn't have the permission based install. Choose your evil but don't drink that damn shiny iPhone koolaid.

Or carry one with the battery out. If you need to, you can pop the battery in and make a call. I figure any situation where I'm physically incapable of inserting the battery, I'd probably be incapable of dialing anyway.

Somewhat related: Is anyone familiar with "onion routing (http://www.torproject.org/)?" Does anyone have an opinion, is it actually effective?


Tor is actually an easy to use version of what many hackers have been doing for years using proxies. If your internet service provider is in the habit of monitoring usage and then one could use something like Tor on the basis of "who certifies those that work at the ISP?"

There is a lot of information we pump through the internet, there are few if any background checks that a an ISP employee must go through. All of a sudden they can have a lot of access to information about what you do online. Possibly putting it to nefarious use.


"Soon" is coming up fast! Advice? Anyone. Dad-erly advice or Constitutional Lawyerly advice?

Compromise with her, she's getting older and needs to know you trust her. Go with the verbal location aware plan (where she tells you where she's going and when she will check in) but addendum it with a contingency plan of activating the GPS remotely if she fails to check in in case something has happened to her.

There are quite a few phones that support the ability to remotely activate the GPS (with a code and password) using special programs. take a look at this site www.instamapper.com for an idea or two on what works.

my suggestion is to get her a new Android phone and install the instamapper software on it (properly set up of course).

[dr. mabuse]

Check out flexispy.com:rolleyes:

[incarcerated]

From a blog:
http://www.glgroup.com/News/Switzerland-sues-Google-over-Street-View-privacy-concerns-44802.html

Switzerland sues Google over Street View privacy concerns

November 13, 2009
Analysis by: GLG Expert Contributor
Summary
Google has been seriously challenged by several EU countries ( such as Germany,Greece and now Switzerland ) as to its claims that it is within its legal rights re privacy infrigements via Street View and other related services .

In the light of mounting abuse of GPS data via serious hackers ( even institutional spy networks ) it is hardly any wonder that EU has taken a tougher stand ( compared to USA ) regarding data protection regulations and laws even for private individuals.

Analysis

1. Google needs to demonstrate restraint and pacify these authorities as to its ability to strike a balance in order not to jeopardize what is a serious market opportunities now that it is offering these apps via smartphones using Android OS.

2. There is clearly no justification for photographing and making available to public at large such levels of details as car license plates,individual faces etc. ( especially in sensitive locations such as hospitals,prisons or schools).

Core use of GPS data for routing/mapping does not require this level of detail.Google should focus on this core usage or risk a spate of lawsuits which would not help its market prospects and reputation.

3. Scope for abuse by criminal elements is vast as already demonstrated by several terrorist groups who have targeted such locations.

4. If institutions dealing with such level of details are deemed to legitimately need this information ( such as anti crime agencies ); this should be carried out and used within the confines of appropriate legislation.

Special groups such as serious spy networks who could very easily abuse such data at or near facilities such as army bases,defence/security establishments are of special concern.