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View Full Version : U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible


BMT (RIP)
01-14-2009, 10:05
http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11444354

:munchin


BMT

incarcerated
01-15-2009, 00:26
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21296

nmap
02-11-2009, 06:59
It seems that the collapse is approaching....

LINK (http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11672249)


Kidnapping, gunbattle leaves 21 dead south of Juarez

By Diana Washington Valdez / El Paso Times

Posted: 02/10/2009 02:19:15 PM MST

Twenty-one people were killed early Tuesday between Villa Ahumada and Samalayuca following the reported kidnappings of nine people and shootouts between Mexican soldiers and the kidnappers, officials with the Joint Chihuahua Operation said.

Police also reported the deaths of four others whose bodies were found Tuesday in the Juárez area, for a total of 25 people killed, the most to date in less than 24 hours.

There was an unconfirmed report that a soldier was among the slain, according to the Associated Press in Mexico.

Enrique Torres, spokesman for Joint Chihuahua Operation, which is leading the crackdown against the drug cartels in the state of Chihuahua, said everything started when an armed commando began abducting people from their homes late Monday in Villa Ahumada, which is about 90 miles south of Juárez, along the Panamerican Highway.

The kidnappers allegedly picked up a total of nine people and shot to death six of them at a ranch at El Vergel, a nearby village.

The military was called in, went after the kidnappers, and set free three of the nine surviving people who were abducted.

Torres said several firefights broke out in different places between the soldiers and the armed kidnappers, resulting in 14 to 15 additional deaths during the shootings and a couple of vehicle crashes.

Last year, six people were massacred in Villa Ahumada in alleged confrontations between rival drug cartels.

Torres said authorities were piecing together the information

for a complete report on Tuesday's attacks.
Diana Washington Valdez may be reached at dvaldez@elpasotimes.com; 546-6140.

incarcerated
02-11-2009, 08:45
The original Joint Forces Command report can be found here:
http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarchive/2008/JOE2008.pdf

nmap
02-11-2009, 18:19
Thank you, Incarcerated. I see I have some interesting reading to do.

nmap
02-16-2009, 11:42
It looks as if Mexico has an unemployment problem.

LINK (http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUKLG57092220090216?sp=true)

Mexico to lose up to 300,000 jobs, minister says
Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:32am GMT By Estelle Shirbon

PARIS, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Mexico risks losing up to 300,000 jobs because of the economic crisis despite a government infrastructure spending programme that can employ some 750,000 people, Economy Minister Gerardo Ruiz Mateos said on Monday.

Mexico's economy is expected to shrink around 1 percent this year because of a slump in U.S. demand for manufactured exports from cars to refrigerators, while tourism and remittances from Mexicans living abroad are also being squeezed.

"The estimation we have is between 250,000 and 300,000 people," Ruiz Mateos told reporters during a visit to Paris, in answer to a question on how many Mexicans were expected to lose their jobs during the global economic slump.

Ruiz Mateos said the government was responding in two ways, with an infrastructure spending programme and with measures to support companies to dissuade them from laying off workers.

"We will do things that the government hadn't been able to do in recent years like cleaning roads, building secondary roads, renovating rural schools, and this could provide employment, more or less, for some 750,000 people," he said.

"In parallel, we have a jobs protection programme targeted at companies that will suffer a drop in demand for their exports and we think that with that programme we will save about half a million jobs that were going to be cut."

Mexican auto production and exports nosedived by more than 50 percent year-on-year in January, the latest sign of how the country is being hit by recession in its key trading partner, the United States.

Asked about this, Ruiz Mateos said that one positive sign was that none of the auto companies that had formally announced investment programmes in Mexico had dropped those plans.



AUTOS

"Ford (F.N) had announced a $3.5 billion investment programme last year and that is going ahead. General Motors (GM.N) announced investment of $600 million in a transmission plant and that is going ahead," he said.

It is unclear how long such plans will hold up, however, given the deep crisis ripping through the U.S. auto industry. General Motors is struggling to make deals with workers to cut costs, failing which it could be forced to consider bankruptcy.

Turning to trade matters, Ruiz Mateos said some Mexican steel producers had expressed concerns about the Buy American provision in Washington's stimulus package.

The provision requires that any public building or public works project funded by the package use only iron, steel and other manufactured goods produced in the United States.

But Ruiz Mateos said Mexico had been reassured by changes to the Buy American provision made by Congress, which stipulate that it "be applied in a manner consistent with U.S. obligations under international agreements."

Mexico and the United States are members of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), and Ruiz Mateos said that commitment by Washington ensured Mexican rights under NAFTA would be respected.

"We are satisfied with that. I think it will be a programme that will incentivise and lift the U.S. economy and that will be a great help to overcome the global crisis," he said.

Ruiz Mateos also said Mexico and the United States would soon resolve their dispute over new U.S. meat labelling rules, which he called "a minor problem". The rules, which are due to take effect on March 16, require that meat packages in U.S. supermarket carry country-of-origin labels.

Canadian and Mexican officials have argued the rules would lead U.S. meat plants and consumers to discriminate against their animals, though Canada has already dropped its complaints. (Reporting by Estelle Shirbon; Editing by Toby Chopra)

nmap
02-21-2009, 21:39
Today's Wall Street Journal suggests that two gangs - one being the Zetas - can field as many as 10,000 (ten thousand) gunmen at a time.

I cannot help but wonder about the beauty of snow covered northern lands...;)

LINK (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123518102536038463.html#printMode)

The Perilous State of Mexico
With drug-fueled violence and corruption escalating sharply, many fear drug cartels have grown too powerful for Mexico to control. Why things are getting worse, and what it means for the United States.
Article
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By DAVID LUHNOW and JOSé DE CORDOBA

Reuters
Mexican marines stand guard next to about 7 tons of confiscated cocaine on Feb. 16.

Monterrey, Mexico

Detective Ramon Jasso was heading to work in this bustling city a few days ago when an SUV pulled alongside and slowed ominously. Within seconds, gunmen fired 97 bullets at the 37-year-old policeman, killing him instantly.

Mr. Jasso had been warned. The day before, someone called his cellphone and said he would be killed if he didn't immediately release a young man who had been arrested for organizing a violent protest in support of the city's drug gangs. The demonstrators were demanding that the Mexican army withdraw from the drug war. The protests have since spread from Monterrey -- once a model of order and industry -- to five other cities.

Drug Wars in Mexico
View Slideshow

Brian L. Frank for The Wall Street Journal
Gang members and dealers line the streets of Tepitoto, Mexico City
View Slideshow

Associated Press
Police and forensic workers carried two bodies in Villa Ahumada.
Much as Pakistan is fighting for survival against Islamic radicals, Mexico is waging a do-or-die battle with the world's most powerful drug cartels. Last year, some 6,000 people died in drug-related violence here, more than twice the number killed the previous year. The dead included several dozen who were beheaded, a chilling echo of the scare tactics used by Islamic radicals. Mexican drug gangs even have an unofficial religion: They worship La Santa Muerte, a Mexican version of the Grim Reaper.

In growing parts of the country, drug gangs now extort businesses, setting up a parallel tax system that threatens the government monopoly on raising tax money. In Ciudad Juarez, just across the border from El Paso, Texas, handwritten signs pasted on schools warned teachers to hand over their Christmas bonuses or die. A General Motors distributorship at a midsize Mexican city was extorted for months at a time, according to a high-ranking Mexican official. A GM spokeswoman in Mexico had no comment.

"We are at war," says Aldo Fasci, a good-looking lawyer who is the top police official for Nuevo Leon state, where Monterrey is the capital. "The gangs have taken over the border, our highways and our cops. And now, with these protests, they are trying to take over our cities

The parallels between Pakistan and Mexico are strong enough that the U.S. military singled them out recently as the two countries where there is a risk the government could suffer a swift and catastrophic collapse, becoming a failed state.

Pakistan is the greater worry because the risk of collapse is higher and because it has nuclear weapons. But Mexico is also scary: It has 100 million people on the southern doorstep of the U.S., meaning any serious instability would flood the U.S. with refugees. Mexico is also the U.S.'s second biggest trading partner.

Mexico's cartels already have tentacles that stretch across the border. The U.S. Justice Department said recently that Mexican gangs are the "biggest organized crime threat to the United States," operating in at least 230 cities and towns. Crimes connected to Mexican cartels are spreading across the Southwest. Phoenix had more than 370 kidnapping cases last year, turning it into the kidnapping capital of the U.S. Most of the victims were illegal aliens or linked to the drugs trade.

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Eros Hoagland/Redux
A service for slain police officers in Tijuana
Former U.S. antidrug czar Barry McCaffrey said Mexico risks becoming a "narco-state" within five years if things don't improve. Outgoing CIA director Michael Hayden listed Mexico alongside Iran as a possible top challenge for President Obama. Other analysts say the risk is not that the Mexican state collapses, but rather becomes like Russia, a state heavily influenced by mafias.

Such comparisons are probably a stretch -- for now anyway. Beyond the headline-grabbing violence, Mexico is stable. It has a thriving democracy, the world's 13th-largest economy and a growing middle class. And as many as 90% of those killed are believed to be linked to the trade in some way, say officials.

"We have a serious problem. The drug gangs have penetrated many institutions. But we're not talking about an institutional collapse. That is wrong," says Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora.

Officials in both Washington and Mexico City also say the rising violence has a silver lining: It means that after decades of complicity or ignoring the problem, the Mexican government is finally cracking down on the drug cartels and forcing them to fight back or fight with one another for turf. One telling statistic: In the first three years of President Felipe Calderon's six-year term, Mexico's army has had 153 clashes with drug gangs. In the six years of his predecessor Vicente Fox's term, there were only 16."

If Mexico isn't a failed state, though, it is a country with a weak state -- one the narcos seem to be weakening further.

"The Mexican state is in danger," says Gerardo Priego, a deputy from Mr. Calderon's ruling center-right party, known as the PAN. "We are not yet a failed state, but if we don't take action soon, we will become one very soon."

Mexican academic Edgardo Buscaglia estimates there are 200 counties in Mexico -- some 8% of the total -- where drug gangs wield more influence behind the scenes than the authorities. With fearsome arsenals of rocket-propelled grenades, bazookas and automatic weapons, cartels are often better armed than the police and even the soldiers they fight. The number of weapons confiscated last year from drug gangs in Mexico could arm the entire army of El Salvador, by one estimate. Where do most of the weapons come from? The U.S.

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Agencia Reforma
Investigating the death of policeman Ramon Jasso
Last year alone, gunmen fired shots and threw a grenade, which didn't explode, at the U.S. consulate in Monterrey. The head of Mexico's federal police was murdered in a hit ordered by one of his own men, whom officials say was working for the drug cartels. Mexico's top antidrug prosecutor was arrested and charged with being on a cartel payroll, along with several other senior officials. One man in Tijuana admitted to dissolving some 300 bodies in vats of acid on behalf of a drug gang.

The publisher of Mexico's most influential newspaper chain moved his family from Monterrey to Texas after he was threatened and gunmen paid a visit to his ranch. Other businessmen from cities across Mexico have done the same.

"I have never seen such a difficult situation" in Mexico, says Alejandro Junco, who publishes Reforma in Mexico City and El Norte in Monterrey. Mr. Junco now commutes every week to Mexico from Texas.

A few weeks ago, a recently retired army general hired to help the resort city of Cancun crack down on drug gangs was tortured and killed. His wrists and ankles were broken during the torture. Federal officials' main suspect: the Cancun police chief, who has been stripped of his duties and put under house arrest during the investigation.

Every day brings a new horror. In Ciudad Juarez on Friday, gunmen killed a police officer and a prison guard, and left a sign on their bodies saying they would kill one officer every two days until the city police chief resigns. He quit late Friday.

Analysts and diplomats worry that drug traffickers may increase their hold on Mexico's political process during midterm congressional elections scheduled for July.

Mauricio Fernandez Garza, the scion of a wealthy Monterrey family, says he was approached by a cartel when he was a gubernatorial candidate in 2003 and told the cartel would foot the bill for the campaign if he promised to "look the other way" on the drugs trade. He says he declined the offer. He lost the election.



EPA
Cardenas police officers with alleged links to drug trafficking are detained in September.
Mexico has long been in the crosshairs of the drug war. In the 1980s, the drug of choice for local traffickers was marijuana, and much like today, accusations of high-level Mexican corruption were common. In 1985, DEA agent Enrique "Kiki" Camarena was tortured to death by local traffickers, with the aid of a former president's brother-in-law. In 1997, the country's antidrug czar Gen. Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo was jailed after it emerged he was in the employ of a powerful trafficker.

nmap
02-21-2009, 21:41
Article, continued:

Drawn by the opportunity to supply the U.S. drug market, powerful trafficking groups have emerged on Mexico's Pacific coast, its Gulf coast, in the northern desert state of Chihuahua and in the wild-west state of Sinaloa, home to most of Mexico's original trafficking families. These groups, notorious for their shifting alliances and backstabbing ways, have fought for years for control of trafficking routes. Personal hatreds have marked fights over market share with barbaric violence.

Several new factors in the past few years added to the violence, however. In 2000, Mexicans voted out the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI, which had ruled for 71 years. The end of a one-party state loosened authoritarian control and broke the old alliances cemented through corruption that kept a check on drug-related violence.

Another factor was 9/11. After the attacks, tighter border security prompted some gangs to sell cocaine in Mexico instead, breaking an unspoken agreement with the government that gangs would be tolerated as long as they didn't sell the drugs in Mexico but passed them on instead to the gringos. Since 2001, local demand for cocaine has grown an estimated 20% per year. The creation of a local market only encouraged infighting over the spoils.

17. Officials say the protests are organized by drug cartels.
Things started getting really nasty in 2004, when Osiel Cardenas, then leader of the Gulf Cartel, killed Arturo "the Chicken" Guzman, the brother of Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman, a leader of the Sinaloa cartel. Mr. Guzman soon tried to take over Nuevo Laredo, the border city controlled by Mr. Cardenas with the help of the Zetas, former elite Mexican soldiers who defected to the drug traffickers, as well as most of the Nuevo Laredo police, who in fact worked for the Zetas. The struggle for Nuevo Laredo culminated in a pitched battle when gunmen used rocket-propelled grenades to attack a safe house belonging to the other cartel. The all-out battle led the U.S. to close its consulate for a week. The violence soon spread as the two groups fought for dominance all over Mexico's northern border.

Monterrey, just a hundred miles to the south, seemed unperturbed. Can-do, confident and modern, Monterrey likes to think of itself as more American than Mexican. It's the home of Mexico's best university, Tecnologico de Monterrey, modeled on MIT, as well as the country's most prosperous suburb, San Pedro Garza Garcia, and local units of 1,500 U.S. companies. Its police are considered among Mexico's best. In the 1990s, the San Diego Padres came to play a few regular season games here and there was heady talk of Monterrey landing a pro baseball team.

As violence engulfed Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey business leaders, police chiefs and government officials were of one mind: It wouldn't happen here. "We have drawn a line in the sand and told the drug lords they cross it at their peril," state governor Natividad Gonzalez said in a 2005 interview.

What the governor apparently didn't know is that, for years, Monterrey's relative calm was due to an unspoken agreement between rival drug lords whose families lived quietly in the wealthy San Pedro enclave, a place where their wealth would not be conspicuous, say local police. But Monterrey was too big a local drug market to ignore for both sides, and soon fighting broke out.

By 2006, the murder rate spiked and cops were getting shot at point-blank on the streets. San Pedro Police Chief Hector Ayala was gunned down. Months later, Marcelo Garza y Garza, the chief of state police investigations, a well-known San Pedro resident and the DEA's main contact in the city, was murdered outside the town's largest Roman Catholic church. U.S. law-enforcement officials believe he was betrayed to the Zetas by a corrupt cop.

Today, the warring gangs still vie for control, though the Zetas have the upper hand. In much of the city, the gang is branching out into new types of criminal enterprise, especially extorting street vendors, nightclubs and other shops that operate on the margin of the law. These places used to be preyed upon by local cops, but no longer. The owner of a billiards hall says the Zetas told him they wanted a cut of the profits every month, a bill he ponies up. They also ordered him to allow someone to sell drugs at the hall, he says. "What can I do," he shrugs.

In the street market along the city's busy Reforma Ave, the Zetas sell pirated CDs, and have their own label: "Los Unicos," or "The Only Ones," with a logo of a black horse surrounded by four Zs. In Spanish, "Zeta" is how you pronounce the letter "Z." One vendor says some Zetas came to the stalls last year and ordered several vendors to start peddling the Zeta label CDs.

Many Monterrey residents are convinced that even a cut from bribes they pay local cops for traffic violations goes to the Zetas through corrupt cops. That kind of extra money to fund the drug gangs only worsens the balance of power between the state and the traffickers. The drugs trade in Mexico generates at least $10 billion in yearly revenues, Mexican officials say. The government's annual budget for federal law enforcement, not including the army: roughly $1.2 billion.

Both the Zetas and the Sinaloa cartels are believed to field as many as 10,000 gunmen each -- the size of a small army. The Zetas, for instance, can find fresh recruits easily in Monterrey's tough barrios, where the unemployment rate is high.

In Monterrey's Independencia neighborhood, one of the city's oldest, it is not the city government that controls the streets but the local pandillas, or gangs. During a recent workday, the streets were filled with young gangsters, sitting around playing marbles, chatting, and looking tough. At the entrance to a local primary school, a group of four men sat and smoked what appeared to be crack cocaine, what locals call "piedra" or rock.

Outsiders are clearly unwelcome. A reporter visiting in an unmarked SUV along with a state policeman wearing civilian clothes was enough to get plenty of hostile stares and a few mouthed expletives. One or two gang members pulled out their cell phones and began placing a call. "They're unsure whether we're cops or another drug gang," said Jorge, the state policeman, who did not want his full name used for fear of retaliation by the drug lords. "Either way, we move on or we're in trouble."

Jorge, clean cut and with an infectious smile, has been a state cop for more than 20 years. He earns 6,000 pesos -- $450 -- a month. It's an old saw in Mexico that police here don't make enough money to either resist being corrupted by the criminals or care enough to risk their lives going after them. In fact, corruption extends throughout the police forces. A senior state official said privately that he doesn't trust a single local police commander.

The state's former head of public security resigned amid allegations that he was in league with the Sinaloa cartel. The man who took his place is Mr. Fasci, a former top prosecutor. Mr. Fasci says officials are trying to improve coordination among Mexico's alphabet soup of different law enforcement bodies. In Monterrey's metropolitan area, there are 11 different municipal police forces, a state police, three branches of the federal police, and the army. Statewide, there are 70 different emergency numbers for the police. Making matters worse, narcotics smuggling is a federal crime, so local cops aren't supposed to prosecute it.

Mr. Fasci says the protests are organized by drug gangs, who go to barrios like Independencia and pay $30 to each person to block traffic, hold up signs like "no military repression." Mr. Fasci thinks the gangs are trying to goad the police into a crackdown that would generate antipathy for the authorities and the army. "We're not going to fall for it," he says.

Neither will the Mexican government call off the soldiers. Mexico has no choice but to deploy the army to do what corrupt and inefficient state and local police forces can't, says Mr. Fasci. And the protests are likely a sign the military is having success pressuring the drug gangs, say officials. Meanwhile, Mexico has passed a law that calls for an ambitious reform of all its state and municipal police forces. The problem: It could take 15 years or longer to complete, says Mr. Medina Mora, the attorney general.

The U.S., which is providing Mexico with some $400 million a year for equipment and training to combat drug traffickers, backs Mexico's stand. U.S. law enforcement officials are ecstatic about Mr. Calderon's get-tough approach. A U.S. law enforcement official says the Mexican military is trying to break down powerful drug cartels into smaller and more manageable drug gangs, like "breaking down boulders into pebbles." He adds: "It might be bloody, it might be ugly, but it has to be done."

Demand in the U.S., of course, is the motor for the drugs trade. Three former respected heads of state in Latin America, including Mexico's former president Ernesto Zedillo, issued a joint report recently saying the drug war was too costly for countries like Mexico, and urged the U.S. to explore alternatives like decriminalizing marijuana.

Indeed, Mexican officials long ago gave up on thinking they might one day eliminate the drugs trade altogether. Victory now sounds a lot like what victory in Iraq might be for the U.S.: lower violence just enough so that people won't talk about it anymore.

Jorge Tello, an adviser to President Calderon on the drugs war, defines it like this: "It's like a rat-control problem. The rats are always down there in the sewers, you can't really get rid of them. But what you don't want are rats on people's front doors."

nmap
02-23-2009, 17:48
More, this from USA Today. LINK (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-02-22-mexicoborder_N.htm)

So...can the State of Texas keep the border secure? :eek:

Ret10Echo
03-04-2009, 08:34
Mexico troops enter drug war city
More than 1,500 Mexican troops have moved into a city on the US border being fought over by rival drug gangs.

Soldiers moved into Ciudad Juarez to try to regain control of a city in which more than 2,000 people have been murdered over the past year.

Officials say they intend to have 7,000 troops and police in position by the end of the week.

Rival gangs are battling for control of the city, which is a key entry point for drug smuggling into the US.

Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora said the troops were there in support of the local authorities.

"Ciudad Juarez worries us deeply," he said in an interview with Reuters news agency.

"It is the reason why there is a response by the federal government to support the request of local authorities. Public safety is a shared responsibility among the federal, state governments and municipalities."

He added: "In areas where drug traffickers have a lot of influence, sadly there is a risk that they will have an interest in influencing the formation of public power, particularly the local authority. This is something that concerns us."

Police chief quit

Last month, the police chief in Ciudad Juarez, Roberto Orduna, stepped down after drugs gangs threatened to kill at least one police officer every two days until he quit.

Mayor Jose Reyes had earlier insisted the city would not back down to criminal gangs.

But after a police officer and a prison guard were killed, he said Mr Orduna's departure was the only way the authorities could protect policemen.

Speaking after the latest deployment of troops in his city, Mr Reyes said the army and the local authorities were working together to help the troops work with local police and residents.

RT AXE 10
03-04-2009, 09:51
Mexico has an army of approx 130,000. Should the 2 big drug cartels combine they would total approx 100,000. and they're armed to the "T".... and have more funding...

Bordercop
03-04-2009, 11:47
Check out these stories...

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11770841?IADID=Search-www.elpasotimes.com-www.elpasotimes.com

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11830672?IADID=Search-www.elpasotimes.com-www.elpasotimes.com

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_11753103?IADID=Search-www.elpasotimes.com-www.elpasotimes.com

It's getting worse every day.

Rumblyguts
03-04-2009, 11:58
Intersting, just received a campus-wide email about a State Dept. Travel Warning for Mexico. Spring Break's right around the corner...

Ret10Echo
03-30-2009, 04:49
Interesting comment from a BBC interview.

President Calderon said it was impossible to smuggle tonnes of cocaine into the United States without the complicity of some American authorities.

"There is trafficking in Mexico because there is corruption in Mexico," he told the BBC.

"But by the same argument if there is trafficking in the United States it is because there is some corruption in the United States... It is impossible to pass tonnes of cocaine to the United States without the complicity of some American authorities."



Full interview here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7971335.stm

Richard
03-30-2009, 10:03
Not the same old Juarez we used to play in...:eek:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Juarez: Running the Most Dangerous City in the Americas
Tim Padgett, Time, 27 Mar 2009

Jose Reyes Ferriz, mayor of the Mexican border city of Juarez, presides over what may be the western hemisphere's most dangerous town, certainly the hardest hit by Mexico's drug-war terror. Since the start of last year, Juarez has seen almost 2,000 drug-related murders. Reyes this month requested thousands of federal army soldiers to rein in the violence, which has subsided for the moment — giving him a chance to rebuild Juarez's corrupt police force. He talked with TIME's Tim Padgett this week about his police reform, drug-cartel death threats against him and comparisons of Juarez to Baghdad.

TIME: Why have the cartels issued death threats against you?

REYES: Organized crime here had infiltrated our police so deeply, and it was clear they didn't want a clean-up of the force. But it had to be done, and no other Mexican city has done such a widespread clean-up. And that caused the threats. Four weeks ago on a Sunday came the first public threat against me; but it was something we knew had been brewing for a while so I wasn't completely surprised or upset. I knew the consequences of the decisions I'd made.

The violence is a consequence of the Mexican political class's utter neglect of law enforcement, especially when the country was ruled by your party, the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI). Will that finally change now?

That's a key issue. As a country we really underestimated the value of police and looked down on police. That forced the issues we have now, particularly in Juarez. Our police department barely grew the past 15 years: we should have a force of 4,000 officers, but we have only 1,600. We knew about police corruption but as a society did nothing to force the clean-up of our department. Now it's become extremely difficult to do. It cost the lives of 50 people in city government last year, including two police directors.

Right now, with the military on your streets, things seem safer. But the soldiers can only stay so long. Can you really build a new, larger, reliable police force before they leave?

Yes, we can. About half [of the old force] are now out; most didn't pass the new "confidence exam." Our agreement with the federal government is that we'll have 3,000 new officers in place by the end of the year. So we're starting a huge recruitment effort. They'll have to have high school diplomas — we're hoping about 500 will be college graduates. They're going to be some of the best paid in the country and eligible for subsidized housing for the first time.

Are Washington and Mexico City focusing enough attention and resources under the anti-drug Merida Initiative toward local police reform?

The U.S. needs to assure that enough money is put toward making the police forces along the border sufficiently robust — precisely so they'll be the first line of defense for the U.S., just as it's equally important that U.S. border police be better able to stop the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico. The U.S. also needs to be able to share more information with Mexico — like intelligence about [U.S.-based] gangs like Barrio Azteca, whose members are used by the Mexican drug cartels to commit so much of the violence here.

Do you feel the Obama Administration, which this week announced plans to bring more federal agents to the border in large part for those purposes, is doing more than previous U.S. administrations to help your efforts?

Oh yeah. The previous Administration clearly felt that the problems with Mexico could be solved by building a big wall between the two countries to keep the problems here out of the U.S. That is clearly wrong, and President Obama recognizes that. His efforts are directed at the proper solutions for Mexico's problems — which at the end of the day become problems for the U.S. If we don't attack those problems now, the violence will escalate and go into the U.S. And [Mexican] President [Felipe] Calderon, of course, has been very involved in the effort to find solutions to Juarez's problems.

What was this city like before the soldiers arrived?

People didn't want to go outside. Most people stayed at home; most parents didn't want their kids to go to parties. Our city normally has vibrant night life, and that all but stopped for most of the past year.

How do you feel about the comparisons between Juarez and Baghdad?

Well, it was a situation where the numbers were there. The situation was there. We tried to keep information flowing to remind people that of the 1,600 [killed last year] only 30 were innocent civilians. More recently, as we've put pressure on the police, we're seeing what we call "opportunistic" crimes like kidnapping and extortion.

There have been reports that you and your family live part of each week now across the border in El Paso, that U.S. law enforcement has helped screen your bodyguards.

I now have six bodyguards who carry assault weapons instead of guns. But I live in Juarez, I work in Juarez, I sleep in Juarez. [The reports] were fueled by El Paso Mayor John Cook, a good friend of mine, who said when the threats started that if the [Juarez] mayor wants to come to El Paso we'll provide security for him. I told him I didn't need it.

Despite its current troubles, Juarez has a history of leading change in Mexico. The Mexican Revolution and maquiladora assembly plants began here; Juarez was the first city to elect an opposition mayor during the PRI's rule. Will it be the first to create a model police force?

I think that is what's happening. We, of course, didn't choose these circumstances that are forcing us to do it.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888111,00.html?xid=newsletter-weekly

nmap
07-11-2009, 22:00
And the trend continues... LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/11/mexico.attack/index.html)

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- Coordinated attacks in at least eight Mexican cities killed three federal police officers and two soldiers Saturday in what officials are calling an unprecedented onslaught by drug gangs.


Attacks occurred after arrest of Arnoldo Rueda Medina, a high-ranking member of La Familia Michoacana.

Another 18 federal officers were wounded, the state-run Notimex news agency reported, citing federal police official Rodolfo Cruz Lopez.

The attacks were in retribution for the capture early Saturday of Arnoldo Rueda Medina, a high-ranking member of the drug cartel known as La Familia Michoacana (The Michoacan Family), Notimex reported.

Rueda is considered second in command to the group's two top leaders, Nazario "El Chayo" Moreno González and José " El Chango" de Jesús Méndez Vargas, acting as a "right arm" to Moreno, the secretary of public security said Saturday in a statement.

Among other allegations, he was arrested for his role in designing the hierarchy of the organization, the production of synthetic drugs and movement of marijuana and cocaine to the United States, said Mexico's secretary of public security. Rueda was arrested along with a 17-year-old male who worked for him.

Following his arrest Saturday morning in Morelia, Michoacan, men armed with high-powered rifles and grenades attacked the police station where he was being held, the Secretary of Public Security said.

After failing to win his freedom, members of the group launched attacks in the cities of Morelia, Zitacuaro, Zamora, Lazaro Cardenas, Apatzingan, La Piedad and Huetamo in Michoacan state, Notimex news said, citing federal police.

The three officers were killed in Zitacuaro, police official Eduardo Moran told CNN en Español, while six police officers were reported wounded in Morelia.

Two soldiers were killed in Zamora, shot by men in a passing car as they walked to their headquarters. The Secretary of Public Security told the newspaper Cambio de Michoacan that 25 spent shells from an R-15 rifle and 17 from an AK-47 were found at the scene.

Michoacan is in west-central Mexico, on the Pacific coast.

Another rifle and grenade attack took place near Acapulco in Guerrero state, which borders Michoacan, but no one was injured.

Saturday's attacks came just days after a drug gang in Tijuana declared they were at war with police, threatening to kill five officers every week until Police Chief Julian Leyzaola resigns.

The threat was made in a note found on the windshield of a slain officer's car, news reports said.

At least three Tijuana officers have been killed since Monday, reports said. Leyzaola, a former army colonel, replaced a police chief removed from office in December after receiving numerous threats.

"Leyzaola has become the poster boy for honest police work, which has put the drug gangs on notice," Vicente Calderon, a reporter for the Tijuana Press news agency, told CNN affiliate KUSI.

"They believe he is serious, that he means business and is trying to re-establish the rule of law that has been affecting the city and whole state for many years since organized crime established themselves in Baja [California]."

Tijuana, the westernmost city in Mexico, is across the border from San Diego, California. Sixteen police officers have died there in 2009, and officers are now patrolling the city in groups of six, KUSI reported.

exsquid
07-17-2009, 18:02
Don't worry about Latin America. The leftists are going to straighten this whole mess out in a year or two. Just as soon as they can correct the backward slide towards stability & peace in places like Colombia & Peru. Tio Hugo, Evo, & Daniel are doing everything they can to put all those pesky bourgeois in their place & free the common man from bondage. Obama knows Latin America is better off in their hands & is going to concentrate on more important security issues like all those evil Bush Administration folks behind the torture issue.

x/S

nmap
05-09-2010, 06:35
I came across an ABC video that may be of interest - although it is a bit dated, having originated on Feb. 12, 2009. Chilling.

LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYvTva6TM1g&feature=related)

Length 7:10. It is a story about kidnapping in Phoenix - according to the piece, Phoenix is now the number 2 city in the world for kidnappings, right after Mexico City.

There are some recordings of kidnappers making telephone calls to the victims' families. The level of violence is surprising, even for that variety of crime. On the positive side, the victims appear to be involved with the drug trade; however, I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before they expand their activities.

This may illuminate some of the thinking behind Arizona's new immigration law.

akv
05-09-2010, 11:41
This stuff definitely gets your attention. I don't like the notion of illegal immigrants bucking the system and consuming resources without contributing etc, but considering the deteriorating system down there, they could be considered refugees from the violence, at the least I have a bit more empathy for them. I wonder at what point it is in the best interests of the US to get militarily involved against the cartels to protect our borders and the stability of our region before having to deal with them on our soil.

ZonieDiver
05-09-2010, 12:00
or better yet...deal with OUR drug problem in a meaningful way.

Richard
05-09-2010, 12:35
When trading in such a commodity, I wonder what would happen if there was no consumer driven market demand for the crap up here?

Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin

incarcerated
05-09-2010, 13:48
I came across an ABC video that may be of interest - although it is a bit dated, having originated on Feb. 12, 2009. Chilling.



Great video.
California Attorney General and wannabe governor Jerry ‘Moonbeam’ Brown has done nothing significant about marijuana growers, illegal aliens or drug trafficking in California.

nmap
05-09-2010, 14:50
or better yet...deal with OUR drug problem in a meaningful way.

The war on drugs has been going on a long time. The first use of the term was back in 1969, during Nixon's administration. And yet, the situation never seems to improve. If the media is to be believed, the stuff just gets cheaper and more available...usage starts at younger ages...and the drug culture permeates our society to an ever greater extent.

No disrespect intended, no offense meant, but I cannot help wondering what we can do to fix our problem. We don't seem to have come up with anything over the past 41 years.

ZonieDiver
05-09-2010, 18:22
The war on drugs has been going on a long time. The first use of the term was back in 1969, during Nixon's administration. And yet, the situation never seems to improve. If the media is to be believed, the stuff just gets cheaper and more available...usage starts at younger ages...and the drug culture permeates our society to an ever greater extent.

No disrespect intended, no offense meant, but I cannot help wondering what we can do to fix our problem. We don't seem to have come up with anything over the past 41 years.

For what it is worth: "We" lack the will to do what it takes to solve this problem. We must either legalize and control drugs, or take draconian measures in regard to USERS, not just dealers at all levels. We are content to export OUR problem to other countries, and demonize them for not dealing with it. It is OUR problem. It IS a demand problem, not a supply problem.

We should control our border and control our thirst for drugs. The problems will soon go away.

Ain't gonna happen.

ZonieDiver
05-12-2010, 13:29
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/05/12/20100512man-killed-in-mexico-mourned.html

A 67-year old Phoenix-area businessman disappeared near Santa Ana, Sonora, Mexico on May 3rd. He had traveled often in the area. It appears he was murdered for his truck.

I have traveled through this town many, many times on the way to Guaymas-San Carlos. It is a very well-traveled area.

incarcerated
05-15-2010, 14:18
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hb3LUciR3gBHn6x7f4BBQHIPYZPQD9FNFJSO2

LT APNewsAlert
(AP) – 31 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY — Federal prosecutors say former Mexican presidential candidate missing amid signs of violence.



Update:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gROHho-DT5F_5FmMC7Bj71UI73yAD9FNFNT00

Former Mexico presidential candidate missing

(AP) – 47 minutes ago
MEXICO CITY — Federal prosecutors say a former Mexican presidential candidate is missing and that his car has been found with signs of violence.

The federal Attorney General's Office says it was informed of the disappearance of Diego Fernandez de Cevallos, who was the 1994 presidential candidate of the now-ruling National Action Party.

Saturday's announcement says that that Fernandez de Cevallos' car was found near his ranch in the central state of Queretaro. It says some of his belongings were found inside the car as well as unspecified "signs of violence."

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http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/20100514_us_mexico_warden_message_issued_regarding _planned_protests

U.S., Mexico: Warden Message Issued Regarding Planned Protests

May 14, 2010 | 2102 GMT
ShareThisThe U.S. Consulates in Nogales and Hermosillo, Mexico, issued a Warden Message on May 14 warning of demonstrations set to occur May 14-15 at the Nogales and Douglas/Agua Prieta ports of entry. U.S. and Mexican law enforcement expect the possibilities of traffic disruption and violence to be minimal. U.S. government workers were asked to delay travel through the specified ports of entry.

Paslode
05-15-2010, 14:26
The longer this goes I wonder at what point we will give the Mexicans refugee status instead of illegal Alien.

Green Light
05-15-2010, 17:33
We may have procrastinated too long to make any border security/closure meaningful. With any other country we would train and organize the refugees to go back and take their country back. But there's no country to take back.

The Zetas and other groups have too much money and are willing to use too much violence to be counteracted. My great grandfather came to the US because of the same problem. We can't afford another military adventure there, especially being as committed as we are in Asia. I'm afraid the border states are on their own on this one - the feds aren't going to help them out.

ZonieDiver
05-15-2010, 20:17
The longer this goes I wonder at what point we will give the Mexicans refugee status instead of illegal Alien.

I had one of my very bright, illegal, female students (70+% of the really bright ones - the "doers" - ARE female) ask this very question in class on Thursday. She referred directly to Cubans, who may face less oppression, danger, and economic hardship when compared to Mexicans, yet have an easier time getting 'refugee' status. I told her it was probably three things: numbers, proximity-access, and 'holdover' from the " Evil Empire" days.

I'm ready to start the "Arizona Militia" to defend our border! We should reconstitute the "Arizona Ramgers" - with far more than '26 men' to serve as our own Border Patrol. The Feds - and California - can kiss my ass!

nmap
05-15-2010, 21:30
I cannot help wondering if defending the border is a practical possibility, although I certainly support the idea.

Mexico has a large population. The Mexican economy is none too good and I am under the impression it is getting worse. Finally, the ability of the Mexican government to maintain order seems open to question. There seems to be a possibility of a mass migration northward.

Rhetorical Question: Are we prepared, as a nation, to take the actions necessary to stop large-scale movements of desperate people? Personally, I doubt it.

Paslode
05-15-2010, 22:55
I cannot help wondering if defending the border is a practical possibility, although I certainly support the idea.

A Mine Field might assist.....but if a call was made for every able bodied (and Legal citizen) man to defend the border with firearms it might be possible.

dr. mabuse
05-16-2010, 20:59
*

akv
05-17-2010, 01:27
Somehow we need to aggressively address both issues, supply and demand. I don't know.

I initially though just legalize it, and let drug abusers meet their fate, but in a welfare state this would likely only add to the burden of the responsible citizens.

IMHO, Djibouti perhaps the world's fist Narco-society provides a decent example of the dangers of legalized drugs. Very simply it seems this entire little country is perpetually stoned on Khat, a chewable narcotic. Unemployment is north of 60%, people spend a fifth of their income on Khat leaves, and basically people (including the government) sit around watching TV and nothing gets done ever. Some estimate 80% of the populace is addicted, men spend 8 hours a day sitting around chewing Khat, side effects being, loss of appetite, constipation, and insomnia, and the country shuts down Thursday afternoons until the weekend Khat leaf shipment shows up.

On the flip side they proudly point out they have very little drinking and violence compared to other Islamic nations,....hmmmm.;)

But seriously, despite the fact the US and Djibouti are very different places, could the whole country of 800k people be weak willed, or is it the legalization of the drug?

LarryW
05-17-2010, 04:24
(from akv) But seriously, despite the fact the US and Djibouti are very different places, could the whole country of 800k people be weak willed, or is it the legalization of the drug?

Over simplifying the problems in Djibouti is a temptation in an effort to understand what happened. But, IMO, the problems with Djibouti and many other former colonial states could be sourced to the fact that those countries were nurtured under the consumption of colonial rule for too long. They were taught to wait until someone else tells them what to do. The legalization of drugs contributes to the public lethargy but it's a chicken-or-egg study. Both probably evolved dependent on one another.

(from 02/2009 Rueters article posted by nmap) Mexico risks losing up to 300,000 jobs because of the economic crisis despite a government infrastructure spending programme that can employ some 750,000 people, Economy Minister Gerardo Ruiz Mateos said on Monday.


IMO, a 300,000 job loss in Mexico would have an impact on that country like the loss of a million or more in the US, given the lack of unemployment resources in Mexico and the dependence the economy down there has on foreign investment and the income received by their own ex-pats in the US. Too many single-points of failure.

IMO the stability and predictability of the Mexican Govt is deteriorating quickly, and the postulation in this thread that "illegal aliens" may soon become "refugees" appears to be a credible concern.

Ret10Echo
05-17-2010, 06:58
Rhetorical Question: Are we prepared, as a nation, to take the actions necessary to stop large-scale movements of desperate people? Personally, I doubt it.

If I were going to actually reply........:rolleyes:


1. The United States has a unusual attitude toward an immigrant population unlike most nations across the world. ("They" is "Us")

2. Politicians in the U.S. are too weak-willed to create anything that appears to be a physical barrier to entry...(again the heritage of the U.S., "huddled masses")

3. Mexico and the nations to the South have no reason to attempt to slow the movement North as a majority of those working in the U.S. provide financial support to families in their native country. Stopping this influx of funds would be damaging. This de-facto foreign aid is another political minefield.

Overall I agree with you that there is almost no chance for a national level policy that results in a real barrier to movement into the U.S.. Individual States will take action, but their actions will (obviously) be attacked by the Federal Government.

LarryW
05-17-2010, 08:44
1. The United States has a unusual attitude toward an immigrant population unlike most nations across the world. ("They" is "Us")

2. Politicians in the U.S. are too weak-willed to create anything that appears to be a physical barrier to entry...(again the heritage of the U.S., "huddled masses")

3. Mexico and the nations to the South have no reason to attempt to slow the movement North as a majority of those working in the U.S. provide financial support to families in their native country. Stopping this influx of funds would be damaging. This de-facto foreign aid is another political minefield.

Overall I agree with you that there is almost no chance for a national level policy that results in a real barrier to movement into the U.S.. Individual States will take action, but their actions will (obviously) be attacked by the Federal Government.


Concur. There's lack of sufficient motivation to address either the flow of drugs/illegals north or addressing the "political minefield".

incarcerated
05-17-2010, 10:08
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20100516/NEWS01/100514040/6+killed+in+shooting+near+kindergarten+in+Mexico

6 killed in shooting near kindergarten in Mexico

The Associated Press
• May 16, 2010
6 killed in shooting near kindergarten in Mexico
MEXICO CITY (AP) — Gunmen killed six men Friday and wounded two more in a drive-by shooting near a kindergarten in a northern Mexico region besieged by drug gang battles....

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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/05/17/Two-headless-bodies-found-in-Juarez/UPI-37091274097953/

Two headless bodies found in Juarez

Published: May 17, 2010 at 8:05 AM
JUAREZ, Mexico, May 17 (UPI) -- Police worked to identify the decapitated bodies of two men found in the city of Juarez, Mexico, the Juarez state attorney general's office said.

Spokesman Arturo Sandoval said the bodies, found Sunday, had two notes from a drug cartel attached, CNN reported Monday....

nmap
09-12-2010, 20:17
Looks as if things are getting worse. Imagine that.


LINK (http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1000985931/Cat-tells-workers-to-leave-Mexico)

Excerpt: Caterpillar Inc. is telling its American employees in Mexico, particularly those with children, to return to the United States because of escalating violence there, the company said Thursday.

Paslode
09-12-2010, 20:26
Looks as if things are getting worse. Imagine that.


LINK (http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1000985931/Cat-tells-workers-to-leave-Mexico)

Excerpt: Caterpillar Inc. is telling its American employees in Mexico, particularly those with children, to return to the United States because of escalating violence there, the company said Thursday.


No, no you have it all wrong! Mexico is a shinning example of a progressive Democracy and there are NO problems on the border :rolleyes:

TOMAHAWK9521
09-13-2010, 00:38
I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?

Paslode
09-13-2010, 06:26
I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?


That hand grenade may not be too far off target....

nmap
09-13-2010, 06:34
I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?

Truth be told, I think that's an accurate assessment. In time...a couple years, maybe?....it may be seen as prescient.

How the U.S. can cope, and whether it can cope, with large numbers of desperate people is the question. Especially if the situation that drives them here is long-term, such that there is little prospect of their departure.

Neither the public treasury nor private charity will have the capacity to support them. There will be no jobs for them. But sending them back will be a near-equivalent to a death sentence.

And then there are the politics...those are likely to be angry and divisive.

ZonieDiver
09-13-2010, 09:26
Truth be told, I think that's an accurate assessment. In time...a couple years, maybe?....it may be seen as prescient.

How the U.S. can cope, and whether it can cope, with large numbers of desperate people is the question. Especially if the situation that drives them here is long-term, such that there is little prospect of their departure.

Neither the public treasury nor private charity will have the capacity to support them. There will be no jobs for them. But sending them back will be a near-equivalent to a death sentence.

And then there are the politics...those are likely to be angry and divisive.

Hmmmm! "Refugee camps" right next to the agricultural fields in the SW AZ and SE CA areas.

SF teams to train G's for infil into their homeland to free their nation from corruption!

I have a plan. I am available. The President should call... :D

ns1clrk
09-13-2010, 17:03
I like the Mine Field and refugee camp ideas. :D

craigepo
09-13-2010, 18:35
Here are a couple of interesting nuggets regarding "refugees".

http://www.arlingtonrefugeeservices.com/new_page_3.htm

TOMAHAWK9521
09-14-2010, 02:25
And then there are the politics...those are likely to be angry and divisive.

OK. So we call the spade a spade. The Mexican government will get all indignant about their people being called refugees. The "usual suspects" Jessie, Al, ACLU, and SPLC will scream racism. And the politicians will vehemently deny the Mexican people being classified as "refugees" in order to keep them as potential future voter blocs.

Sigaba
10-16-2010, 12:59
FWIW, the current edition of The Economist has a briefing on Mexico's efforts to combat organized crime.

The printer-friendly version of that briefing is available here (http://www.economist.com/node/17249102/print).

nmap
10-16-2010, 14:06
OK. So we call the spade a spade. The Mexican government will get all indignant about their people being called refugees. The "usual suspects" Jessie, Al, ACLU, and SPLC will scream racism. And the politicians will vehemently deny the Mexican people being classified as "refugees" in order to keep them as potential future voter blocs.

Well...I'm not sure that's enough. I was discussing the issue with some friends over breakfast yesterday, and I think it may come down to some unspoken assumptions.

Here's the problem - those assumptions are both emotionally charged and unprovable. Even if they're not unprovable, there is little (no?) hard information on the subject.

The two assumptions are:

1) Do people - extra population, if you will - always and without limit add to the wealth of nations? The assumption is a yes or no. A further complication is the question of when this occurs, since new immigrants (or refugees) may be expensive, whereas their descendants may (or may not) be a positive contributor to the greater society.

This assumption applies to the new population in aggregate. We can always find an example who is brilliant, good-hearted, and a wonderful addition. We can also find some loathsome criminal. Instead of looking at individuals, the issue deals with the group in its entirety.

2) Is there a point at which extra population is more a burden than a benefit? This goes with the question - are we there yet?

My personal bias - because I see no hard facts to guide me on this - is that the refugees would generate more costs than benefits and that we are at a point where the extra population is more of a problem than a gain. This leads to the conclusion that the door should be slammed shut.

Others will surely have different views. Maybe they're right.

If we get lots of refugees (or illegal aliens, or undocumented workers, or whatever we call them), then I suspect the societal debate will become heated.

lksteve
10-16-2010, 14:34
How the U.S. can cope, and whether it can cope, with large numbers of desperate people is the question. Especially if the situation that drives them here is long-term, such that there is little prospect of their departure.Train them, arm them, send them back, advise and sustain them...like ZD said...

Green Light
10-16-2010, 20:00
As I stated in another thread, the people of Mexico are a conquered people and have been sheep for generations. If the US were to do as a couple of the QPs have suggested, there needs to be:

1. A populace that is willing to sacrifice everything for their freedom. This does not exist to any large degree. There are those who will sacrifice everything for money . . . their loyalty will only be to the highest bidder.

2. A group of leaders who will sacrifice personal ambition for the good of the people. The political leaders have been corrupt from the beginning and have no loyalties to anything other than their own power and pockets.

If we do train, arm, advise, and send them back, what then? If they prevail, what will be the end state? IMO, they will not work to change Mexican society nor will they move policies to help the US. The only way out is to lock them out.

exsquid
10-17-2010, 07:54
We "trained, advised, & sent back" the Zetas. Didn't turn out too well.

x/S

JJ_BPK
10-17-2010, 08:14
As I stated in another thread, the people of Mexico are a conquered people and have been sheep for generations. If the US were to do as a couple of the QPs have suggested, there needs to be:

1. ...

2. ...



That sounds like a great plot for a movie??
FID & COIN doctrine rolled into one cohesive WIN..
We'll call it "Shichinin no Samurai" :munchin:D


Lock the gate & take the Welcome sign down.... :mad:

sinjefe
10-17-2010, 08:21
Actually, us training and advising the Zetas is completely incorrect. I had the privilege to work in 2/7 when we were conducting the Mexican Training Initiative (MTI) and I currently work with the Mexican Army executing CN / CT related Theater Security Cooperation. While working with senior Mexican officers, I have come across a few who attended MTI and now are either O-6s or O-7s in SEDENA. They have a very different story to tell. While a few (very few) did leave the military and go to work for the cartels (leading to the creation of Los Zetas), most are either out of the Army leading productive lives or still in the Army serving honorably. To them, the fact that a small handful of those that received our training "crossed over" is horribly embarrassing and they work extra hard to keep the GAFE (Grupos Aereos de Furezas Especiales or Airmobile Special Forces Groups, the initial recipients of our training) above reproach. In other words, it is a radical oversimplification and frankly, gives the impression the we (SF) created and organized the Zetas and stigmatizes the good faith acts of the 7th and the honorable behavior of the majority of those that attended. :(

Sorry, bro, but, I have heard this misstatement allot and it bugs me.:)

Oldrotorhead
10-17-2010, 15:14
A Mine Field might assist.....but if a call was made for every able bodied (and Legal citizen) man to defend the border with firearms it might be possible.

If the Fedreal Government were to ask for people the help secure the border I think a fair number of people would be willing to take part. Possibly an offer of expenses and a small stipend would be in order so that the people taking part in this would not have to do so at their own expense. I'm fairley sure that most of the interested people would have had a criminal back ground check and possibly a secruity clearance in the past so the expense to the Government would be far less then full time federal employees. The down side would be that I think most of these people would be older and not up to partols with heavy rucks, but OP's and fixed check points could free up the Border Patrol to take care if the areas with difficult access and border crossing points. I really don't expect this to happen , but it would not be impossible. :munchin

exsquid
10-19-2010, 00:50
sinjefe:

I stand corrected.

x/S

CombatMuffin
10-21-2010, 19:12
I find the main problem here in Mexico is the lack of education, and the naivety of the general populace.

The general sentiment I grew up hearing here, is that us Mexicans are a bunch of lazy guys, just looking to make easy money. I've met mroe than a handful of immigrants in the States, and all of them worked very hard.

Then you have the guys with money down here, within the 8%(more or less) that attends college/university. They dont care about Mexico, they care about making money, and using the uneducated masses for profit. They may not counciously realize it, but they are doing it if they support the current working schemes in Mexico.

You'll hear a lot of Mexicans, on both sides of the border, talk about patriotism and pride for their "motherland" but none of them are willing to work for her, much less carry a gun and bleed for her, which is truly disheartening.

There's no culture for discipline or respect towards the authority here, the required military service is a joke (its LITERALLY a lottery to see who marches/does social service and who simply gets their "pass," no marching, no training, no nothing).

IMHO, Thats just positive reinforcement to tell the populace you can "skip" authority and discipline, you can "skip" honorable service to your country and carry on complaining about your country is corrupt:mad:

Is Mexico running out of control? Surely. Are Mexicans aware? Some(the educated), but they lack the guts to really do something about it, unless it pays in cash.

/Rant ;)

Team Sergeant
10-21-2010, 21:26
I'd sure like to see some of the classified info we have on the mexican government, leaked to the world.........

But then again I don't think most of the U.S. would be surprised to see that the corruption actually goes all the way to the top of the mexican government and how widespread it really is......

incarcerated
11-14-2010, 02:12
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703904304575497902062932426.html

Can Mexico Be Saved?

The mayor of Juárez—the border town at the center of the drug wars—says he's not getting enough help from his capital, or Washington either.
NOVEMBER 13, 2010
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
Cuidad Juárez, Mexico

'I can't imagine how the U.S. can be so worried about Iraq and Pakistan while we don't sense that it is worried about the border here. We are together whether we like it or not."

So says Hector "Teto" Murguia, the mayor of this city that is plagued by drug-war disorder. In the 35 months since Mexican President Felipe Calderón launched his war against his country's drug cartels, more than 7,100 people have been killed in this border city. Over 2,700 have died since January—in other words, the rate of the killing has increased.

Carjacking, kidnapping and extortion are rampant. Going out to work, school, or a restaurant or even to visit friends has become a risky proposition. Recently, a 20-year-old mother who attends college in Juárez became chief of police in a nearby town of 9,000 because no one else would take the job. Many Americans who used to pop over the border for dining or entertainment have curtailed their visits. Hundreds of thousands of juarenes have fled, some just over the Rio Grande to El Paso, Texas, others to the interior of Mexico.

But the 57-year-old Mr. Murguia is staying. Even before he took office on Oct. 10, a welcoming committee was already at work: In the week before he won the election, a headless body was dropped on the road near his home.

So what's his plan to retake the city for law-abiding Mexicans? I have come here from El Paso, with an armed escort, to find out. As the SUV I'm riding in turns down his street, I note a new two-story shopping mall on the corner. It is completely vacant, a metaphor for a once-promising metropolis laid low by violence and fear.

A tall metal sculpture of Don Quixote decorates Mr. Murguia's foyer. As I enter his home office, the first thing I ask is why he ran for this job. He says that his party asked him to run again (he was mayor from 2004 to 2007), and he felt an obligation to the community.

Cleaning up the mess here will require the proper diagnosis, and I ask the mayor to share his. "If you have the biggest consumer of drugs just beside your [border] and you have a lot of people here who have no opportunity, you have the culture for insecurity," he tells me. But the mayor doesn't dwell on what he cannot change. Instead he zeroes in on Mexico. "The real causes that are generating the insecurity in Juárez and all over Mexico are lack of opportunity, lack of education, lack of [necessities], impunity, lack of justice. It is a mixture of a lot of problems where we Mexicans haven't done our homework," he says.

"People who think they are going to fix [the problem] with policemen and arms are completely crazy." Instead, he wants to see Mexico "make the changes in the fiscal policies to encourage investments that create jobs."

To capture the desperation of Mexico's young, the mayor-elect shares an anecdote: "Last week, at a gas station here, I met an 18-year-old. He told me 'Teto, you politicians don't know anything. You don't understand that without hope we have no future. We prefer to die in one year standing up than living all our lives on our knees.'" Summing it up, Mr. Murguia says, "When people lose hope they will do anything [to improve their circumstances]."

By Mr. Murguia's measure, Juárez was a place of hope not so long ago. "Juárez for 40 years, from 1965-2005, was the city that generated the most jobs per capita in all of Mexico. And those jobs were not only for juarenses," he says proudly. "People came from Oaxaca, Zacatecas, Veracruz because they couldn't find jobs in their own city. Some of them tried to cross the river but a lot of them found a job in Juárez."

What went wrong? The mayor-elect blames Mexico's revenue sharing model. "The investment that the federal and state government makes in Juárez does not correspond to what the city sends in federal taxes." He complains that though the city created jobs for the nation, investments in "public services, streets, schools, parks, community centers and health-care centers haven't corresponded to the job growth. We were forgotten." He wants the federal government and the state "to return to Juárez what they owe us."

Of course economic development is unlikely when investors are having their throats slit. When I raise that issue and the issue of corruption, Mr. Murguia says that part of what Juárez is owed is resources for law enforcement. He says that when he first took office as mayor in 2004 there were only 1,000 police for the entire city. He raised that number to 1,600 and increased police salaries by more than 50%. But he says that is far from what is needed.

"Experts in crime prevention say Juárez needs 7,000 police. Yet even if I had used the entire budget I couldn't even have hired 3,000. We couldn't give them scholarships for their kids and they didn't have housing. I visited some of them at their homes and saw the dirt floors. . . . We ask our police to give their lives for us and we don't have enough money to pay them properly."

A complicating factor is that Mr. Murguia's political adversaries have accused him of having ties to drug traffickers, since a high-ranking member of his police department during his last term was busted. When I raise this, the mayor-elect is ready and rattles off his former subordinate's resume as a pillar of society and business. "And let me tell you something else," he adds. "During the six months he worked for me he received two recognitions from U.S. authorities." In other words, this official did not have the socioeconomic profile of a cop on the beat, which suggests that higher salaries alone don't prevent corruption.

Nevertheless, Mr. Murguia says that what Juárez needs is more resources—"money, intelligence and cooperation"—from Mexico City. He also complains that the U.S. aid program for fighting the cartels, known as Plan Merida, has so far provided "nothing" to his city.

Isn't that a problem to take up with the Mexican government and Mr. Calderón? "But it's 2,000 kilometers from here," he exclaims. El Paso, on the other hand, is just across the river, so Washington should convince Mr. Calderón to help Juárez. "If the Mexican institutions—the federal police, the army, the federal government, and the municipal and state governments—fail Juárez," he warns, "everybody is going to fail. What can a small powerless mayor of Juárez do if President Calderón doesn't provide the support?"

Mr. Murguia says his city is demoralized. It no longer has just an organized crime problem, but widespread chaos. "Copy cats" and youngsters have learned to take advantage of the general breakdown of law and order. "For kids, 15 or 17 years old, when there is a lot of impunity, it is very easy for them to extort a business. But this is not organized crime." Mr. Murguia draws a distinction between the two and says, "If we can solve the extortions and kidnappings, Juárez will begin to [improve] slowly." Hence his emphasis on social services, investment and strengthening of the police.

Mexican politicians are notorious for anti-American rhetoric, but Mr. Murguia displays no such prejudice with me. Still, he doesn't shy away from the unpleasant reality of American drug use and marijuana-growing. When I ask him about legalizing marijuana, he launches into a favorite Mexican jeremiad: "How do you explain to a guy here who is in jail because he was caught carrying two kilos of marijuana that California is producing 10,000 kilograms per day in just one [facility]? How do you explain that [the Mexican] loses his liberty while Californians produce? It's hard to explain that to the people who are in jail here. Fair? It is not fair."

Is he saying, I ask, that there is a perception in Mexico that marijuana is already legal in the United States? "Yes, oh yes," he tells me. He makes clear that he thinks the stuff is bad for you, but he says that any move to legalize it must be done on both sides of the border—and all over the world. "Otherwise you will get Hell's Kitchen here in Mexico."

I press him on that point, asking whether legalization, on both sides of the border, would stop the bloodshed and disintegration of the state. If you want to end the violence and corruption it creates, he says, you only need to turn the business over to governments. He says that he could then deal with the extortion and kidnapping epidemics separately.

I ask Mr. Murguia whether he thinks winning in Juárez will mean no more drugs will go into the U.S. "I don't think so," he says. So you are fighting a problem and risking your life, and if you win you won't solve the problem?

He repeats his doubts, but for him that's beside the point. "I'm not going to get philosophical," he says. "The only thing I want to do is get my city calm."

Ms. O'Grady writes the Journal's Americas column.

Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A11

sinjefe
12-02-2010, 17:35
Yet another victim in Mexico's slow death march. that fact that these women are standing up where men do not is a testament to Mexico's abject corruption.

http://dailychilli.com/news/8090-top-mexican-female-cop-shot-dead-

What a shame.

Dusty
12-02-2010, 19:00
Yet another victim in Mexico's slow death march. that fact that these women are standing up where men do not is a testament to Mexico's abject corruption.

http://dailychilli.com/news/8090-top-mexican-female-cop-shot-dead-

What a shame.

That it is.:mad:

drymartini66
12-02-2010, 19:04
I realize that the original thread title from 1/09 is U.S. military report warns "sudden collapse" of Mexico is possible. Time to update that collapse is here.