View Full Version : Riots
Postest in Oakland, CA.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/01/08/MN2N155CN1.DTL
Just how many quotes and one liners can be found in just one story. This story is full of them.
How a protest forms, turns into a riot and what gets targeted is interesting.
What was said to the Hair Braid Shop owner was, was, was........
How a protest forms, turns into a riot and what gets targeted is interesting.
And what factors change the liklihood would be another interesting factor.
If there was anything in the public domain about such matters, it might make for fascinating reading. Perhaps I'll try to Google it...
Just how many quotes and one liners can be found in just one story. This story is full of them."Only stupid fu@#ers get mad and tear-up their own sh!t!"
I hope they burn the city down, that way; I can come home and rebuild it with the "new" stimulus package money.....:D
Stay safe.
Dozer523
01-08-2009, 23:40
It's Oakland . . .
"I feel like the night is going great," said Nia Sykes, 24, of San Francisco, one of the demonstrators. "I feel like Oakland should make some noise. This is how we need to fight back. It's for the murder of a black male." Sykes, who is black, had little sympathy for the owner of Creative African Braids. "She should be glad she just lost her business and not her life," Sykes said. She added that she did have one worry for the night: "I just hope nobody gets shot or killed."
. . . a city of O2 theives. Good luck with that "re-build" idea. Unless you start with dismantling the Bay Bridge.
I went to Cal as a left leaning Democrat and graduated as a Republican. After several years in Berkeley and Oakland, one can't help but notice that much of the protesting for the rights of the people is really about something else.
The only good thing about this event is that the San Francisco Chronicle calls the event for what it was: a riot by a mob rather than an 'uprising' or 'rebellion.'
And what factors change the liklihood would be another interesting factor.
If there was anything in the public domain about such matters, it might make for fascinating reading. Perhaps I'll try to Google it...
nmap-- During the 1960's and 1970s, social historians began taking long hard looks at riots and rebellions. Part of the interest was politically motivated--the young scholars were frequently involved in the unrest of that era and they were seeking lessons from the past to understand better their present-day experiences. Despite (or because?) of this presentism, many of these works are spectacular. I would especially recommend the sixth essay in Society and Culture in Early Modern France by Natalie Zemon Davis. In that piece, Davis explores religious riots in sixteenth century France and offers a scathing analysis of mob violence that was clearly informed by her own experiences as an activist. (Often, the most trenchant critiques of the radical left come not from the right but from the radicals themselves.)
incarcerated
01-09-2009, 00:45
The San Fransisco Chronicle reports here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/MNOV154P0R.DTL
“The New Year's Day shooting death of Oscar Grant on an Oakland BART platform has been electronically re-enacted hundreds of thousands of times as videos of the incident are broadcast on television and spread over the Internet.”
LA TV News stations aired the Rodney King beating video hundreds of times in the run-up to the1992 riot. Without that saturation, it’s doubtful that there would have been the public climate needed for a riot.
"Only stupid fu@#ers get mad and tear-up their own sh!t!".
The Federal Code pertaining to HUD specifies, very clearly, that any residence or business destroyed in a civil disturbance is to be indemnified by HUD. That’s one reason why they riot in their own neighborhoods.
After the Los Angeles Riots, I received a briefing that included unedited footage taken by a Swedish cinematographer and given to LAPD. The riot began after 3:00 P.M. on 042992 at the intersection of Florence and Normandie. LAPD Intelligence people had photographed handbills throughout the downtown area at 8:00 A.M. that morning. The handbills announced that there would be a riot that day, and invited local residents to join and take part. Riots are organized events and involve planning. Not much in the public domain about this type of thing, but look back at the months of training and preparation undertaken by demonstrators at the 2000 Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles. Flush with success after their Seattle WTO demonstrations in November of 1999, ZNet, RAN, various anarchist groups and their far-Leftist brethren held classes and workshops on various components of street action, including reconnaissance (complete with recon manual), communication, medical care, housing, mass feeding, media relations and legal aid. Yes, this was a demonstration, not a riot, but the press portrays both as essentially spontaneous events.
The Federal Code pertaining to HUD specifies, very clearly, that any residence or business destroyed in a civil disturbance is to be indemnified by HUD. That’s one reason why they riot in their own neighborhoods.
Does that code go as far back as 1968?
I can understand protesting something you see as a wrong. I can see anger, as long as it is used in a usful manner. With this "protest" turning into a riot, the reason for the protest has been lost, and now all the focus is on the riot. Can those that were involved in the riot provide the name of the man they were "honoring" by their actions. My bet would be not a chance.
I agree wholeheartedly with Guy. Why in the heck would you trash your own neighborhood, if you weren't using the situation as an excuse to do wrong? Same goes for the riots that break out after some team wins, or looses, a championship. It is an excuse for stupid people to do stupid things thinking that there are enough other stupid people doing stupid things that they aren't going to get caught. Seems they have forgotten that there are now cell phones, video cameras etc capturing all this stuff, and they are more than likely to get caught.
I would especially recommend the sixth essay in Society and Culture in Early Modern France by Natalie Zemon Davis. In that piece, Davis explores religious riots in sixteenth century France and offers a scathing analysis of mob violence that was clearly informed by her own experiences as an activist.
Thank you, Sigaba. I'll annoy the local librarian. :cool:
As riots go, in 1968 the locals razed a portions 10 to 20 block thriving neighborhood business section of town and some houses. From that day forward the area has been blight by day and a no mans land by night.
No one will invest in the area and it will remain a ghetto fo drugs, gangs, whores and pimps. Makes no sense, it was like shooting themselves in the foot.
I loved the fact that OPD used chemical agents to disperse the crowd, some event commander had the balls to authorize that.
longrange1947
01-09-2009, 21:59
Having been on the receiving end of several "riots", I can assure you that they are far from "spontaneous"
They are well planned with signals and a script. Only the "sheeple" do not have the full blow by blow, but it is there.
They are stupid of the sheeple but smart for the organizers. :munchin
:DOPD used chemical agents
I do miss the mod flamethrower for dispensing CS powder though, now that was a "conversation ender" with mouthy rioters. :eek:
But with the new ADS, why bother with tear gas?
LINK (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/11/navy_pirate_zapper_110308w/)
LINK with pictures (http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/active-denial.html)
Cheap, clean, and, apparently, effective.
(I wonder what it would do to popcorn?) :munchin
longrange1947
01-09-2009, 23:27
Only temp. CS powder leaves a mark. :eek:
As riots go, in 1968 the locals razed a portions 10 to 20 block thriving neighborhood business section of town and some houses. From that day forward the area has been blight by day and a no mans land by night.
No one will invest in the area and it will remain a ghetto fo drugs, gangs, whores and pimps. Makes no sense, it was like shooting themselves in the foot.
In many cases, destroyed areas are not rebuilt because of the parking requirements for new developments mandated by municipal building code. These requirements can add 40% or more to the cost of a project. Often, these increases are especially high because the plots of land are of odd shapes that require underground parking.
Developers will balk at these additional costs. City planners won't budge in granting conditional use permits so the land remains vacant. An irony here is that some city council persons will complain (cry 'racism') because businesses will not invest in these areas. The dynamic is also ironic because the parking requirements overlook the fact that in many of these neighborhoods residents don't own as many cars so they wouldn't be driving to these developments in the first place.
This dynamic is evident in Oakland, CA, and in those areas of South L.A. which were razed during the riots related to the Rodney King verdict.
In many cases, destroyed areas are not rebuilt because of the parking requirements for new developments mandated by municipal building code. These requirements can add 40% or more to the cost of a project. Often, these increases are especially high because the plots of land are of odd shapes that require underground parking.
Developers will balk at these additional costs. City planners won't budge in granting conditional use permits so the land remains vacant. An irony here is that some city council persons will complain (cry 'racism') because businesses will not invest in these areas. The dynamic is also ironic because the parking requirements overlook the fact that in many of these neighborhoods residents don't own as many cars so they wouldn't be driving to these developments in the first place.
This dynamic is evident in Oakland, CA, and in those areas of South L.A. which were razed during the riots related to the Rodney King verdict.
True, most of the people in those areas tend to walk or ride mass transit., parking is horrible, the city council and ACORN (in our area) crys foul any chance they get, and it is always about race and the needs of the people not being met. Nothing every gets accomplished except continuing fueds, nepotism and pet projects like the Negro Baseball Muesem and the 18th and Vine Jazz District which are in that slum, which annually drain financial resources that could be better used elsewhere in the city......like the education system.
The potential developers, they head to the other side of the stateline with the same codes, but less buracracy and less special interest.
It is Community Activism at it finest for 40 years and counting.
True, most of the people in those areas tend to walk or ride mass transit., parking is horrible, the city council and ACORN (in our area) crys foul any chance they get, and it is always about race and the needs of the people not being met. Nothing every gets accomplished except continuing fueds, nepotism and pet projects like the Negro Baseball Muesem and the 18th and Vine Jazz District which are in that slum, which annually drain financial resources that could be better used elsewhere in the city......like the education system.
The potential developers, they head to the other side of the stateline with the same codes, but less buracracy and less special interest.
It is Community Activism at it finest for 40 years and counting.
FWIW, If governments on the local, state, and federal level really want to re-invigorate the economy they could take a huge collective step forward and re-examine all parking requirements. A project for a corporate headquarter office park that nearly got derailed because satisfying the municipal parking requirements would have cost $100 million.
Magic Johnson has demonstrated that inner cities can be redeveloped profitably. IMHO, you are absolutely correct that one of the biggest obstacles is people leveraging political and social issues for their own purposes.
My two cents, I think there should be museums for the Negro Leagues but ideally they'd be privately funded.
As riots go, in 1968 the locals razed a portions 10 to 20 block thriving neighborhood business section of town and some houses. From that day forward the area has been blight by day and a no mans land by night.
No one will invest in the area and it will remain a ghetto fo drugs, gangs, whores and pimps. Makes no sense, it was like shooting themselves in the foot.
I saw that when I lived in NYC. We were driving through an area of Brooklyn and I asked why there were so many burnt out, delapitated, boarded up buildings and vacate lots. I was told those were left over from riots 20+ yrs ago. My jaw dropped. All those years gone by, some of those buildings still holding beautiful architecture and then I really started to pay attention to other parts of the neighborhood (this was during the day). Nothing but run down, broken down cars, shabbily dressed people but there were many in very expensive, very flashy peacock colors. We went back later that night and it was hookers, pimps, drugdealers and more homeless skells...EVERYWHERE.
All these years gone by, and nothing ever done to clean up the area. It had been a big jewish neighborhood, with tons of shopping, restaraunts, etc. It looked like something in a post-nuclear holocaust movie.
FWIW, If governments on the local, state, and federal level really want to re-invigorate the economy they could take a huge collective step forward and re-examine all parking requirements. A project for a corporate headquarter office park that nearly got derailed because satisfying the municipal parking requirements would have cost $100 million.
Magic Johnson has demonstrated that inner cities can be redeveloped profitably. IMHO, you are absolutely correct that one of the biggest obstacles is people leveraging political and social issues for their own purposes.
My two cents, I think there should be museums for the Negro Leagues but ideally they'd be privately funded.
Good point and my bad because actually there appears to be some private funding, how much it is difficult to tell, it maybe entirely funded privately. It is a start I guess, but I still think the money could be put to better uses. Talk of funding light rail, The Liberty Memorial Museum and increased property tax to support/fund them......too much money aquired and spent in the wrong areas of the community.
I am just thankful I don't live there.
Fox News TV had a report this morning that former BART Officer Johannes Mehserle was arrested in Nevada shortly after his wife gave birth to their child. The DA is charging him with one count of murder.
Interestingly enough, they showed footage from the riots (in which rioters burned cars, damaged property and damaged 300 businesses) from Jan 8th and commented on how the victims' mother and sister filed a$25 million lawsuit against the city of Oakland. IMHO, I think if they win that case, the damage costs should be removed from that settlement. I just wonder where they come up with those dollar amounts. The victim probably would have never made that amount of money in his lifetime and many times that is what it is based on.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479876,00.html