Which reloading setup?

[RichL025]

Curious as to what people here are using.

Way back when, when I was a young team medic and discovered I couldn't hit $hit with my issued pistol, I bought a Sig and started practicing every weekend we were in garrison. That led shortly to the purchase of a Dillon Square Deal B which I cranked out several thousand rounds through - I didn't keep a log, but probably close to 10,000 rounds with no problems at all.

I sold the Dillon when I started college & had no time for shooting - I was diving all the time then.

Now I'm thinking about getting back into reloading, not so much for the quantity of ammo, but the quality. I noticed that with even the slightest attention to quality control, my old SDB would make more accurate ammo than most things I could buy from the factory.

Now I'm thinking about 223 also, in addition to 9mm and .40 - the SDB can't do rifle rounds, so I've been looking at other Dillon presses - thinking real hard about the 550.

Anyone here have one? Like it?

Anyone really a big fan of something else?

I realize a single-stage press is the epitome of accuracy, but I'm not looking at winning any National Match competitions here, I'd like a nice combination of higher throughput and accuracy.

[rubberneck]

I bought a 550 two years ago and love it. Dillon still has the best customer service around and their product will last a long time. I have gotten the point where I can load anywhere between 350-400 rounds per hour.

Calibers can be changed in less than 10 minutes, quicker if they use the same sized primers. If you are reloading multiple calibers I would suggest having dedicated tool heads and powder dies for each caliber. It adds to the cost but will save you time and help you avoid a good deal of aggravation when you change calibers.

[HOLLiS]

I have two 550s, problem is they are addictive and you will find you spend a lot less time reloading.

[blue02hd]

I have been using a Dillon 650 for the past 4 or 5 months, and it is treating me pretty good. I do think however I would have gone with the 550 knowing what I know now. I simply don't use the extra die space offered for the powder check/ safety feature with the 650, as I have made it a habit to eyeball each round as it rotates out of the powder station.

At a slow pace, I can usually drop 250 rounds an hour. I haven't attempted rifle yet, but the 650 can do both pistol and rifle, just like the 550.

[Paslode]

I picked up a RCBS single stage press kit to try my hand at reloading before investing in the Blue Koolaid and now wish I would have just spent the little extra on the Dillon 550 from the git go. I also wanted to see a Dillion 550 in person to see it work and more so how it was made......it puts the Hornaday Lock-N-Load to shame IMO.

My 9mm and .40SW pistol rounds I can do 100 per hour on the single stage, so I figure the Dillion ought to triple that. My 5.56 rounds take considerably more time because of swaging, trimming and crimping.

The Dillion 550 is on my wishlist.

[optactical]

Hornady Lock and Load AP, came with 1000 free bullets and it works just fine for me. A few Dillon owners have switched to them and written comparative reviews. Do a Google search for reloading forums and start to read up on the different systems. Certain communities tend to use certain brands, ie Military and Dillon, this doesn't mean it's the best, it's just a paradigm within that community. Also check webstores that allow feedback on products, such as Midway USA, a lot can be found there as well.

Avoid Lee presses and dies like the plague, this seems to be the concensus anywhere you look.

[cold1]

Avoid Lee presses and dies like the plague, this seems to be the concensus anywhere you look.


I gotta ask why?
I used Lee for years, 45, 30 carbine, 270, 25-06, 30-06, 45-70, 45 LC, 44Mag, 45 auto rim. I reloaded all those with Lee presses and Dies, never had an issue. No I was not reloading for competition or quantities, I was doing it for plinking and hunting ammo. I still turned out a better round than factory ammo.

I dont think you can beat them for cost vs quality for single stages and dies.

[Peregrino]

Dillon has THE BEST calendars! :D I've had my 550 for 18(?) years. I've had my RCBS Rockchucker for 28(?) years. They compliment each other well. Nowdays the RCBS is mostly used for rifle ammo - case prep, working up loads, and long range ammo. Everything else comes off the Dillon. If I ever win the lottery I'll get more Dillons and set one up for each caliber I reload! :p Since I'm not likely to win anytime soon I'm looking at getting a 650 (for my short range/plinking rifle ammo) and adding the case and bullet feeder accessories. With luck we'll see what they're demo'ing at the SHOT and make a better informed decision. (Might be smarter to just get a 1050 for the .223 and leave everything else as it is.) Otherwise I'm with everybody else. Just make sure you are an educated user/consumer - reloading requires an up-front investment in durable "infrastructure". Buy the right stuff up front and realize long term ROI or spend years tinkering (and wasting money) before you give up in disgust because it would have been cheaper (probably safer and better QC too) to shoot WW White Box from WalMart. Don't forget the risk assessment/ mitigation and the safety brief before you start reloading either. ;)

Cold1 - Most complaints I'm aware of for Lee products have to do with their progressive loaders. Personal opinion they can't compete with the Dillons (or the Hornadys - my gunsmith is using his father's presses that have to be at least 40 years old) for durability.

[Blackthorne]

I've got about 10,000 rounds of 9MM on my Lee Pro 1000. Was a bit finicky to tune, but once it's running well, I can do 250-300 and hour.


Thing only cost me around $270 brand new with everything but the bullet feeder (case feeder and agitator, disk powder measure, and priming attachment.

Going to bypass changing calibers altogether and just buy another one for 556.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

I am happy with the Lee loader I am using I like Lee dies. the Carbides. I load 30-06, 308, 270, 8mm Mauser, 45 ACP, 40 cal, 9mm. 44Mag, 44 Special, and 45-110 BPCR. Yes it's slow going but for me it's ZEN time. Very relaxing.

I certainly can see the advantage to a big progressive machine, so maybe some day for the pistol ammo.. Load on fellows, Blitz

[Soft Target]

Dillon has THE BEST calendars! :D I've had my 550 for 18(?) years. I've had my RCBS Rockchucker for 28(?) years. They compliment each other well. Nowdays the RCBS is mostly used for rifle ammo - case prep, working up loads, and long range ammo. Everything else comes off the Dillon. If I ever win the lottery I'll get more Dillons and set one up for each caliber I reload! :p Since I'm not likely to win anytime soon I'm looking at getting a 650 (for my short range/plinking rifle ammo) and adding the case and bullet feeder accessories. With luck we'll see what they're demo'ing at the SHOT and make a better informed decision. (Might be smarter to just get a 1050 for the .223 and leave everything else as it is.) Otherwise I'm with everybody else. Just make sure you are an educated user/consumer - reloading requires an up-front investment in durable "infrastructure". Buy the right stuff up front and realize long term ROI or spend years tinkering (and wasting money) before you give up in disgust because it would have been cheaper (probably safer and better QC too) to shoot WW White Box from WalMart. Don't forget the risk assessment/ mitigation and the safety brief before you start reloading either. ;)

Cold1 - Most complaints I'm aware of for Lee products have to do with their progressive loaders. Personal opinion they can't compete with the Dillons (or the Hornadys - my gunsmith is using his father's presses that have to be at least 40 years old) for durability.


I've had my RCBS Rockchucker for 28 years. Started developing 30-30 loads for my Contender, metallic silhouettes at Yuma. The single press was precisely what I needed. Now I'm ready to start reloading again and will use this good info to expand my capability. Thanks to all.

[The Reaper]

I have presses from RCBS, Lee, Lyman, Dillon, and Ponsness-Warren.

The answer depends on what you are loading for. A full-time, world-class IPSC competitor would need something different from a 1000-yard benchrest shooter or a casual weekend skeet shooter.

I would get a RCBS Rockchucker or the equivalent for small batch precision loads, and/or a Dillon 550 or 650 for making larger quantities of pistol and short rifle rounds. I went with the 550 because I reloaded for a lot of different rounds, and the caliber conversions were a lot cheaper. Note that the 550 actually requires a third hand or you lose a significant amout of production speed while you try to figure out how to feed a new case, rotate the shell plate to the next station, seat a bullet, and pull the handle all between rounds. I understand that there is a company that makes a foot treadle to pull the handle, which would speed up the process considerably. I have never found an automated shell feeder or bullet feed for the 550, though I have not looked for quite a while. The 650 automated those processes, requiring just a handle pull. If you want to get into it for the absolute least amount of money, the Lee will do it, but based on the two years I spent running one, it is a Rube Goldberg device and not a particularly well built one. Something was always breaking or coming loose. That will not happen with the RBCS or Dillons.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[HOLLiS]

I have been using a Dillon 650 for the past 4 or 5 months, and it is treating me pretty good. I do think however I would have gone with the 550 knowing what I know now. I simply don't use the extra die space offered for the powder check/ safety feature with the 650, as I have made it a habit to eyeball each round as it rotates out of the powder station.

At a slow pace, I can usually drop 250 rounds an hour. I haven't attempted rifle yet, but the 650 can do both pistol and rifle, just like the 550.

Every now and then, I sort of wished I had a 650. Having 5 stages would make a few reloads easier. When I needed a extra stage, I would combine bullet seating and crimping in one die/stage. A extra stage would be for "filler" for BP loads.

Like you I try to eye ball the powder too. Only problem with the 550, was getting use to the primer feed and getting it set.


Dillon makes a case feeder for the 550:http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23572/catid/3/RL_550B_Casefeeder_110_Volt_Large_Pistol


Coolest accessory is the primer tube feeder.

I still have my single stage press. I use it for small loads, and case forming. Both RCBS and Lyman makes a bullet proof press.


As it was mentioned, If it wasn't for friends who used the 550, I might have gone another way. After getting use to it, I really like it.

IMHO, Lee makes some really good and cost effective tools.


Biggest attribute about Dillon that I like, is change over time. one can set up the dies in a tool holder. That saves time for repetitive reloads in that caliber. It also helps if one reloads a number of different calibers. On the last count I reload for around 35 different rounds.

[optactical]

I gotta ask why?
I used Lee for years, 45, 30 carbine, 270, 25-06, 30-06, 45-70, 45 LC, 44Mag, 45 auto rim. I reloaded all those with Lee presses and Dies, never had an issue. No I was not reloading for competition or quantities, I was doing it for plinking and hunting ammo. I still turned out a better round than factory ammo.

I dont think you can beat them for cost vs quality for single stages and dies.


I ascertained that from reading around and talking to people, I never said they will make bad bullets, but they (the presses and dies) are the lower end from everything I have heard. Buying a Hornady press and getting the value of the press in free bullets means I don't have to look for the lowest price, my press was basically free. The last thing I can afford to do right now is decide to be the judge of a press a lot of people dislike, so I bypassed Lee when I upgraded to progressive. I test gear, not reloading equipment.

If the Hornady deal (which ends Jan 1) wasn't there I probably would have bought the progressive that goes right on top of my RCBS Rock Chucker, can't recall the name right now.

I've never heard of a brand that produces a bad product, but some are on the low end and some are on the high end, the end product seems to be about the same across the board. I have heard bitching about using Lee's but it's usually from someone who switched, and found out the grass was greener on the other side. IIRC Lee does make the hand held loaders used in SOTIC that cost like $15, that was a great little kit for making single bullets, but I wouldn't use it for mass production.

[blue02hd]

Not sure why I forgot to mention it before, but I still do have my original Lee Turrent Single Case Loader. I kept it so I could maintain my large pistol reloading option without having to break down the 650. I try not to switch caliber on the Dillon unless I have a large cache. For me, it is a pain to swap the 650 back and forth between the 2 main calibers I mass reload for. The Lee is still a great reloader, albeit alot slower than the Dillon.

Whatever set up you get, try not to forget your tumbler, scale, and bullet puller. You'll need them as you work out your kinks. Peregrino nailed it, it is a bit heavy up front. In the long run though, it is nice to reload for 5 cents a round.

Another tip: Don't tell your buddies you reload! The bums are always knocking on my door for more 5 cent crack.

[zauber1]

My 1980s vintage RCBS Jr. is still turning out straight walled pistol cartridges with surprising durability. The wife says I can buy a new press when this one wears out. Do these things EVER wear out?

[HOLLiS]

My 1980s vintage RCBS Jr. is still turning out straight walled pistol cartridges with surprising durability. The wife says I can buy a new press when this one wears out. Do these things EVER wear out?

Your wife obviously thinks so. :) I never argue with my wife.

[Pete]

Honey, they don't wear out but they are like shoes. You need a green one for pistol bullets, a red one........:D

See if you can make it out the door before the frying pan hits the back of your head.:D

Pete
Lee Loader equiped.

[cold1]

I ascertained that from reading around and talking to people, I never said they will make bad bullets, but they (the presses and dies) are the lower end from everything I have heard. Buying a Hornady press and getting the value of the press in free bullets means I don't have to look for the lowest price, my press was basically free. The last thing I can afford to do right now is decide to be the judge of a press a lot of people dislike, so I bypassed Lee when I upgraded to progressive. I test gear, not reloading equipment.



Understood.


As for progessive systems I think you would have a hard time beating Dillion. When I was reloading hard and heavy they were my dream machines. From what I read and heard they put alot of time in R&D for their equipment and the needs of their customers. Their customer service is supposed to be one of the best. That was the biggest selling point in my opinion.

[RichL025]

Well, enough people here have spoken well about the 550, which is the one I was seriously looking at (already being comfortable with the Square Deal previously).

I'm looking forward to a late christmas present to myself... the advantage of being recently divorced, no one to clear the purchases with!!!

[HOLLiS]

accessories for the 550.

The strong base, the new style roller handle, extra powder measure, cover, bullet tray for base and some arco plastic boxes. Also some extra primer tubes help or the primer tube filler.

You can live without the new handle, powder measure and base w/tray. Maybe make you own cover. I like the arco boxes. The press is designed to use them to catch the loaded rounds.

I have always had extra primer feed tubes. In reloading the filling of those tubes seems like a bottle neck to me. So I like to do fill several tubes all at once.

[Peregrino]

What Hollis said. The accessories aren't absolutely necessary but they definitely improve efficiency and therefore productivity. Caliber conversion kits with extra toolheads so you can set you dies permanently are invaluable (and relatively inexpensive). It takes me less than five minutes to change calibers - and that's because I double check the powder throw before starting production.

[Gene Econ]

Hornady Lock and Load AP, came with 1000 free bullets and it works just fine for me. A few Dillon owners have switched to them and written comparative reviews. Do a Google search for reloading forums and start to read up on the different systems. Certain communities tend to use certain brands, ie Military and Dillon, this doesn't mean it's the best, it's just a paradigm within that community. Also check webstores that allow feedback on products, such as Midway USA, a lot can be found there as well. Avoid Lee presses and dies like the plague, this seems to be the concensus anywhere you look.

OPT:

Second you on the Hornady Lock-N-Load auto progressive. I started out with a Dillon 450 (yes -- 450) and still have it. I bought a 550 around 1992 and it was screwed up beyond belief with no hope of ever reliably working. Got rid of it and several years later bought the Hornady. No complaints at all.

Second you on the Lee stuff. My experience is first hand and covers about 20 years. Don't even think about it IMHO.

Gene

[HOLLiS]

Gene, I bought my first 550 about then too. I had several issues. I think part of it was just a transition issue. One of aspect of a progressive, is stopping and then re-starting in the middle of a load. It is much easier, if one has to stop, is to run all the case through first.


The other aspect was primer seating, It took a while to get it all sorted out. I think I was the most of the problem that I had with my 550. I have friend who have other progressive or multiple stage presses. They would be a good way to go, if a person only has a few calibers they reload.

I would be interested in knowing more on what your complaints where. I fell like I need to still learn a lot.

H.

[AngelsSix]

This is a great thread. I am looking at a 550B and was looking for some info on it yesterday to post on my blog, but really couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I guess maybe I should have come here first!

I talked to a certain retired friend of mine who works at Ed's, he highly recommends the 550. He did say that getting the quick change kits save a lot of time and trouble. I am thinking that with the reloader, quick change kit and dies for two calibers it will run at least $600. That doesn't include all of the other "stuff" needed to start reloading. Do I need a brass tumbler? What else do I need as getting prepped?
Since I have NO experience in the arena of reloading, can someone give me some tips on the best way to learn the basics? Yeah, I can look on the net, but that gets old after a while. I was looking for a particular book or something of that nature. I know the NRA also has a course I can order, so if any of you have done that, please let me know if it's worth the $50.00.
Thanks in advance.

[The Reaper]

That depends.

What calibers do you want to load, and what do you want to shoot at with it?

TR

[Peregrino]

A6 - Go to Shooters Pawn in Fayetteville and "fondle the merchandise". They've been retailing Dillon for years (at factory prices so you can save S&H). The sales staff is knowlegeable and they've usually got everything you might need in stock. If not the internet (Midway and Dillon) can provide everything else.

Get the latest Lyman Reloading Manual BEFORE you buy anything, and study it. It's well written, has good instructional chapters, and is not specific to any particular bullet/powder manufacturer (you can get any of their data off the net). After you've gained experience you will build the usual library. Everybody's manual is oriented towards their particular strengths and you will eventually (probably) want more references.

The best way to learn is to get instruction from somebody who knows what they're doing. It's a "hands-on" skill; "hands-on" is the only way to learn it.

[RichL025]

Angels,

My 550B is on it's way (Merry Christmas, me!) so I'll be able to give you a personal report on it soon.

I am a previous owner of a Square Deal B - if you are only going to do pistol calibers, I heartily recommend it - my old one did a great job for me!

When I first started reloading, I was in Germany, and this was pre-internet (well, pre- "useable" internet at least). I read the Lyman's and Sierra manuals several times before starting. I also had two friends who had reloaded in the recent past who I could bug with questions - they were invaluable. I havent looked around for any dedicated internet reloading forums, but I would wager they are there.

Also, like Peregrino suggested, going to the stores that sell the stuff can be very useful. Reloaders tend to be very friendly, open, and excited about helping other people get started.

As far as other gear to start with, here is the basic list I used:

Press + Dies (like I said, I went with the 550B this time)
electronic scale + cover
primer flip tray
extra primer tubes
bullet puller
vibratory case cleaner
case / media separator
associated nit-noid press accessories (bench mount, cover, etc)

And then of course you need your bullets of choice, cases, primer and powder.

If you're starting out with clean brass (ie, purchased) you don't need the case cleaner & separator right away, but you will before you start re-using your brass.

Good luck and have fun with reloading - back in Germany I reloaded for cost reasons (I was shooting 600 rounds a weekend trying to improve my glaring deficit) but the reason I am starting again is because I noticed that with a very little attention to detail and experimentation with different loads, I could get way more accurate pistol ammo than I could buy.

RL

[Ambush Master]

A6, I have a Hornady Pro7 that was factory modded to the Pro Jector. I mounted it to a 2X10 or 12 and clamp it in a Black & Decker Work Mate!! This makes for a very stable platform and it gives you ample work-space while you're using it. When finished unclamp the Board/w Machine attached, fold up the Work Mate, and you can store the whole thing in a small closet!! Plus, you can take it anywhere quite easily!!

Good luck and enjoy!!
Martin

[AngelsSix]

I will primarily be doing pistol for now, 9mm, .40, .45. As I get more experience I want to start doing some custom .556 loads.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am going to go look for those books and start doing some reading.

[The Reaper]

I will primarily be doing pistol for now, 9mm, .40, .45. As I get more experience I want to start doing some custom .556 loads.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am going to go look for those books and start doing some reading.

Then you will not need the rifle case prep and accuracy tools that would be required if you wanted to start loading for long guns.

The 550 would be a great machine for your needs. A brass tumbler is not required for what you are doing, at least as long as you are loading virgin or once fired cases.

Rich has a good starter list, I would add a taper crimp die, calipers, plastic ammo boxes, and a powder check.

If you do not have a beater table to mount it to, you may want to get the NRA plans and build your own. At least one of their designs is very heavy duty and can be used for a variety of purposes.

Welcome to the dark side.

TR

[worksivme]

AS someone who has a few reloaders, including the RL 550b and the Hornady Lock-n-load and Forster Co-Ax

The hornady lock-n-load ap is better for a progressive.

Produces finer ammo. Has a true 5 stations and auto index.

If true quality is the thing "Forster".

Hornady still gives you a thousand rounds free with purchase of this reloader.
A better deal you will not find.
Plust if their choice or bullets is not to you liking they usuall will allow you to switch for an additional two dollars.

Be Well

[HOLLiS]

Angels,

My 550B is on it's way (Merry Christmas, me!) so I'll be able to give you a personal report on it soon.



Well? How do you like it, or are you still busy reloading?

On the single stage, I would reload once I had at least 50 or more empty cases.

On the Dillon, I wait. Only draw back, I spend less time reloading.

[The Reaper]

AS someone who has a few reloaders, including the RL 550b and the Hornady Lock-n-load and Forster Co-Ax

The hornady lock-n-load ap is better for a progressive.

Produces finer ammo. Has a true 5 stations and auto index.

If true quality is the thing "Forster".

Hornady still gives you a thousand rounds free with purchase of this reloader.
A better deal you will not find.
Plust if their choice or bullets is not to you liking they usuall will allow you to switch for an additional two dollars.

Be Well

Who are you? No intro and no profile. Hmm.

Did you read the registration message you were sent?

How about the rules and stickes posted here?

You are off to a poor start.

TR

[RichL025]

Well? How do you like it, or are you still busy reloading?

On the single stage, I would reload once I had at least 50 or more empty cases.

On the Dillon, I wait. Only draw back, I spend less time reloading.

About 200 rounds loaded so far - 50 or so to work up a few options, and 150 for a recent IDPA match. So far it's getting a big "two-thumbs-up", but, as some of the serious guys on this forum can tell you, the true test is after several thousand rounds, not a measly two hundred ;)

I'm having trouble finding a shop with a decent powder selection around here, so I still have quite a bit of load work-up I'm going to do before I settle on something - a local guy who does pretty well in USPSA and IDPA gave me the recipe he uses, I want to try a few others also.

[AngelsSix]

Rich,

Glad you like your reloader. I am looking at the Dillon for now as well, it is fairly inexpensive for what I want to do right now. I am certain I will start looking at other set-ups after I get some time under my belt.

Thanks for all the input, I plan on going to look for that Lyman manual sometime this coming weekend.

K

[Gene Econ]

Gene, I bought my first 550 about then too. I had several issues. I think part of it was just a transition issue. One of aspect of a progressive, is stopping and then re-starting in the middle of a load. It is much easier, if one has to stop, is to run all the case through first. The other aspect was primer seating, It took a while to get it all sorted out. I think I was the most of the problem that I had with my 550. I have friend who have other progressive or multiple stage presses. They would be a good way to go, if a person only has a few calibers they reload. I would be interested in knowing more on what your complaints where. I fell like I need to still learn a lot. H.

Hollis:

You covered the main problem that was the primer feed. Essentially -- it wouldn't.

Intrestingly enough given the somewhat floating die holder on that early 550-B Dillon, -- the alignment between dies and ram (shell plate) was horrible. Cartridge run out was so bad that necked cartridges wouldn't chamber reliably. That was strange as the 450's had a little tool that you used to align the ram with the head and you would think that this would cause alignment problems but that 450 could produce blasting ammo for necked cases with no problems.

Well, I have my two 450's and the Hornady among a couple other turret and single stage presses. Almost all of my rifle ammo is loaded on a Redding T-7 turret these days. Pistol on the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP.

I buy Dillon products and have done so since the days their flagship was the 450. Honestly, I believe their 450 remains an exceptional press that is far less prone to mistakes or problems than the 550. I have no experience with the 650 series.

Gene

[redleg99]

Another satisfied Dillon owner here –
I’ve had my 550 for about 7 years now, and I’m very happy with it.

BrianEnos.com has a couple of good FAQs posted on Dillon presses which may be of interest:

“Which Dillon?”
http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html

“Dillon Precision FAQs”
http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillonfaqs.html

Disclamer: BrianEnos.com is a commercial site that does sell Dillon presses. I have no connection with them whatsoever – I just found the information in the FAQs useful.