View Full Version : HALO QUALIFIED NON SF
Gentlemen,
Background: My current Battalion commander claims to be HALO qualified. He is an FA officer and has NOT been SF, Ranger, etc.. His claim is that he made 2 combat HALO jumps in Afghanistan.
Question 1: Under what circumstances would an FA Officer make 2 combat HALO jumps into Afghanistan that is not SF qualified?
Question 2: Can an Officer/NCO/WO be HALO qualified when not in SF?
I currently hold a B license from the United States Parachute Association and have had conversations with him about freefall and the difference between MFF and civilian jumping. His answers weren't satisfying
I'm skeptical.
Your comments?
Team Sergeant
11-29-2008, 12:19
I'm skeptical.
Your comments?
Me too.
I'm not aware of any SOF MFF infils into Astan.
I smell pure BS.
Why don't you ask him something harmless like when did he go through MFF training and his MFF #.
If we had his name we can ask the MFF committee to verify his MFF status. If you like PM me.
Team Sergeant
Dozer523
11-29-2008, 12:24
Yeah, good idea. Call your senior rater on it.:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
11-29-2008, 12:25
Yeah, good idea. Call your senior rater on it.:rolleyes:
I would, in front of everyone......;)
Bill Harsey
11-29-2008, 12:48
I would, in front of everyone......;)
From the Team Sergeants School of Diplomatic Protocol and Rapid Career Advancement.
:lifter
Yeah, good idea. Call your senior rater on it.:rolleyes:
If he's found to be wearing unauthorized awards, especially as an O-5 in a command position, I'm guessing he won't be his senior rater for long.
Eagle5US
11-29-2008, 12:54
If he's found to be wearing unauthorized awards, especially as an O-5 in a command position, I'm guessing he won't be his senior rater for long.
Nicely put :D
Is he wearing the dual stains on his wings too???
Eagle
Eagle5US
11-29-2008, 12:58
Me too.
I'm not aware of any SOF MFF infils into Astan.
Team Sergeant
We have this one listed from Sep 2006 message:
Southeastern region of Afghanistan (Free Fall), 1735Z to 1800Z hours, inclusive, 3 July 2004.
75th Ranger Regiment, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, Regimental Reconnaissance Detachment, Team 3
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/go0610.pdf
If it was class'ed he shouldn't be talking about it anyway:munchin
Eagle
I would, in front of everyone......;)
Me too. The second your career becomes more important than the mission, it's time to find another job IMO.
Of course, I would have my homework done and know the impending arguements and actions two and three actions/effects deep also. ;)
Sinister
11-29-2008, 18:45
Documented.
MFF-qualified FA guy? Huh? Recently?
TWO mustard stains?!
I've had several MFF-qualified support guys, but the moons and stars had to align for them to be in the right place at the right time.
I'd have to see it and read it to believe it.
Soft Target
11-29-2008, 21:15
Documented.
MFF-qualified FA guy? Huh? Recently?
TWO mustard stains?!
I've had several MFF-qualified support guys, but the moons and stars had to align for them to be in the right place at the right time.
I'd have to see it and read it to believe it.
Numerous riggers have gone to MFF school. I did after I left Group and was working on a MFF test project when I went in '81. Of course, having sport jumped over the previous years with several Committee members didn't hurt.
Warrior-Mentor
11-29-2008, 21:44
Gentlemen,
Background: My current Battalion commander claims to be HALO qualified. He is an FA officer and has NOT been SF, Ranger, etc.. His claim is that he made 2 combat HALO jumps in Afghanistan.
Question 1: Under what circumstances would an FA Officer make 2 combat HALO jumps into Afghanistan that is not SF qualified?
Question 2: Can an Officer/NCO/WO be HALO qualified when not in SF?
I currently hold a B license from the United States Parachute Association and have had conversations with him about freefall and the difference between MFF and civilian jumping. His answers weren't satisfying
I'm skeptical.
Your comments?
Unlikely at best. Ask him when he went through MFF... anyone who really went should at least be able to tell you the month & year - and wouldn't be offended to tell you. You can also ask him where he went to MFF.
As for Question 1...hard to imagine. Rangers have used MFF infil in Afghanistan - when or why to bring an FA officer... tough. Is he JTAC qualified?
As for Question 2, the answer is yes, but slots are very hard to come by. Non-SF slots include Riggers and Rangers (other SOF). Regimental, Corps and Division LRS get some slots as well.
This would be a good one to present to the Adjutant to ask about...and the sooner, the better before he gets his Bn Cmd block checked and moves on to bigger things--e.g., War College and Colonel, etc. :mad:
Maybe ask the Adjutant how this could be so if the guy wasn't assigned to an SF/Ranger/LRSU unit. He should also have a copy of his HALO diploma in his personnel file--maybe have the Adjutant ask for one to complete/update his records--and a copy of the jump manifest to request authorization for the combat jump stars as well as the HALO qualification annotated on his ORB (Officer Record Brief). If he did perform such duty in OEF, there would also be orders for parachute duty and a record of his being paid HALO $$ during the time he was there. I'll bet it ain't there. ;)
This sounds like typical wannabe BS and this guy needs to be exposed as his 'Demonstrates Integrity' block on his OER is in the minus category and this is a definite career ending move on his part. :mad:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
maybe it was a tandam jump.
maybe it was a tandam jump.
A tandem combat jump, now that's funny.
Update: My BN CDR is currently on a 2 week suspension while a 15-6 investigation is complete....MTF.
There was a Combat MFF Jump by the team formerly known as 074 (the frigging four digit number escapes me) in 2007 in Iraq. Tripwire posted the write-up in the 10th SFG(A) thread. http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19495
The only Non-SF guys in the Groups to go to MFF were Riggers.
Ask him if he went to Yuma or Bragg for the MFF Course. It moved to Yuma in mid-90's.
Ask how he liked the "wall locker" jumps. It literally was everything in your wall locker; Ruck, WPN, O2.
The only non-tabbed Army guy in my MFF class was a Flight Surgeon O-5 Guard guy, and IIRC, he was a prior service long tabber. We also had the SWC 2nd BN Cdr in our course as a student, hard as nails from being a recent graduate of CDQC. All students were either SF, Regiment, or 18th ABN Corps LRS.
I'm with the rest of you scratching my head as to why a FA guy would jump MFF, let alone get two mustard stains. :munchin
A tandem combat jump, now that's funny.
Update: My BN CDR is currently on a 2 week suspension while a 15-6 investigation is complete....MTF.
So is this 15-6 because of the MFF issue?
So is this 15-6 because of the MFF issue?
Yes. The MFF issue and another integrity (lack of) issue.
A tandem combat jump, now that's funny.
Update: My BN CDR is currently on a 2 week suspension while a 15-6 investigation is complete....MTF.
Whoa.. that's not good... this lad's career could be at an end. Or, he'll get a staff job and a promotion.
As far as a combat tandem jump being funny - Why? That's exactly why SF adopted the tandem system (many years after our brothers across post and on both coasts adopted it), to get a non-parachute qualified asset behind enemy lines.
Soft Target
12-03-2008, 13:42
Whoa.. that's not good... this lad's career could be at an end. Or, he'll get a staff job and a promotion.
As far as a combat tandem jump being funny - Why? That's exactly why SF adopted the tandem system (many years after our brothers across post and on both coasts adopted it), to get a non-parachute qualified asset behind enemy lines.
Don't forget: along with the staff job and promotion, he'll certainly get a medal of some kind. I know from which I speak.
Ret10Echo
12-03-2008, 16:00
he'll certainly get a medal of some kind.
That would require a round into the clearing barrel....:D
rudelsg2
12-03-2008, 17:25
That would require a round into the clearing barrel....:D
You are going to make me cry, stop it!
That would require a round into the clearing barrel....
Would you be talking about the incident at Eagle Base in front of the Longhorn DFAC? I know it wasn't my company commander.......
Soft Target
12-04-2008, 07:54
That would require a round into the clearing barrel....:D
Well, now I know. I never put a round in the clearing barrel, that explains no medals.
Dozer523
12-04-2008, 09:19
Those Clearing Barrels have reputations as "team players" and "always there for every soldier" "24-7".:mad:
Clearing Barrels seem to think they are the original "Join-The-People-Who-Joined-The-Army; We-Do-More-Before-Nine-O'Clock-Than-Most-People-Do-All-Day; Army-Of-One; Army-Strong; Be-All-You-Can-Be, Fight-Out-Numbered-And-Win; Win-The-First-Battle-Of-The-Next-War; Lean-Forward-In-The-Foxhole; Do-More-With-Less . . . If-You-Do-Not-Understand-The-Instructions-Do-The-Best-You-Can, American Hero!
Gimme a Break! I've seen these little slackers. (They are everywhere!) All they do is sit around! Waitin' for a mistake . . . Just Waitin and waitin . . .
I personally think that putting a random round into one of them occassionally :oprobably is the only thing that keeps us safe from the rest of them.
A dead Barrel is a safe Barrel!:D
Ret10Echo
12-04-2008, 09:24
That would require a round into the clearing barrel....
Would you be talking about the incident at Eagle Base in front of the Longhorn DFAC? I know it wasn't my company commander.......
Shhhhhhhhh:eek:
Wasn't my company commander either.... hmmn, that only leaves one company unaccounted for....:lifter
To get back on track with this thread. The Combat HALO jump article is in the latest copy of the Special Warfare Magazine Nov/DEC 2008. Very good write up on both the combat mission and the MFF Schoolhouse.
I would argue that the MFF mission was combat validated, since the previous jumps were all during the Vietnam War by MACV SOG. SOGVET has a valid point, we all should be bundle/tandem qualified. nothing like strapping on a person who doesn't want to jump and never been in a plane and then exiting at 12,500 ft or higher. never done that and can only imagine the look on the guy's face.
Yes, the mission is resource and time intensive to maintain level 1 currency. I see a bigger bang for the buck with MFF then with our Dive Teams actually doing a "Dive" mission. What JSOTF Commander is going to deploy an SF Dive team, when he has a SEAL platoon at his disposal?
My personal opinion, all the SF Teams should be at a minimum Static Line Square qualified and preferably MFF. Other than one 10th SFG(A) SF ODA that was given the chance to jump in with the 173rd onto their secured DZ in Iraq, when was the last SF Static Line combat jump???
What JSOTF Commander is going to deploy an SF Dive team, when he has a SEAL platoon at his disposal?
As this is an open forum, I'll be brief with my answer - > OPTIONS = > CHANCE OF SUCCESS. What happens when there is a critical dive requirement and no SEAL Team available? :confused:
When was the last SF Static Line combat jump???
When was the last time it was necessary for an SFODA to make such a jump? :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
blue02hd
12-05-2008, 15:10
Deleted
Update: This morning we were informed that our Battalion commander was officially relieved of command due to the above mentioned infractions. (He admitted he didn't do the jumps)
Thanks for all your input.
Update: He admitted he didn't do the jumps
Dumb-som-na-bitch....
I guess he figured no one would question him about it?
I would agree he is a dumb SOB and a LOSER too!!!!!
Update: This morning we were informed that our Battalion commander was officially relieved of command due to the above mentioned infractions. (He admitted he didn't do the jumps)
Excellent! :lifter
FWIW - 'Dalton Fury' mentions a HALO jump in OEF by one of their units...but don't tell your former BN CDR or he'll be trying to add his name to that list, too. :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
12-22-2008, 15:52
A man with no personal integrity makes it to LTC and is selected for battalion command.:rolleyes:
His raters should all be busted one pay grade as well, for failing to notice this little character flaw during the past 20 years.
TR
GreenSalsa
12-22-2008, 17:23
Personally I would love to see him reprimanded in a manner more befitting his infraction.
If I could, he would be changing bedpans, bandages, and the like for wounded veterans for a couple of years and then drummed out of the service, without a retirement.
Warrior-Mentor
12-22-2008, 17:38
Update: This morning we were informed that our Battalion commander was officially relieved of command due to the above mentioned infractions. (He admitted he didn't do the jumps)
Thanks for all your input.
Would've been glad to help. Happy to hook you up with the folks who've got the ammo (or the graduation records as it were...) Guess it didn't come to that.
Personally I would love to see him reprimanded in a manner more befitting his infraction.
If I could, he would be changing bedpans, bandages, and the like for wounded veterans for a couple of years and then drummed out of the service, without a retirement.
I saw officers from 2LT to COL at Fort Benning get GO Letters of Reprimand from the likes of MG Lindsay, MG Burba, MG Foss, and BG McCaffrey for such offenses as plagiarizing, lying, fraternization, shoplifting, adultery...followed almost immediately by an 'official' request by them to resign their commissions and leave the military. I hope the CofC isn't finished with this guy yet as his credibility for any future assignment is certainly null and void.
BTW--are we gonna get a name to post in the wannabe Hall of Shame? ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
when was the last SF Static Line combat jump???
I'll dig into my books but my guess is the Nha Trang MIKE Force assualt on Seven Mtns AO in 17 Nov 68,
The Nha Trang MIKE Force also jumped on:
13 May 67 on Nui Gai Mtn
2 Apr 67 to open the Bunard A-Camp
II Corp MIKE Force did a jump to open up Bu Prang A-Camp on 5 Oct 67
There were SL infils done by MACVSOG, the are mentioned in Major Plaster's book SOG. I was lucky enough to spend a couple months with one of the former CCS guys who did one. I'll see if I can find that date.
I'll dig into my books but my guess is the Nha Trang MIKE Force assualt on Seven Mtns AO in 17 Nov 68.
Several CCS RTs led by Babysan (+3) and RJ Graham (+3) did static-line infils into Cambodia from UH-1s in early 1970 prior to Billy Waugh's arrival there.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I would let him make a HAHO O2 Night Jump over a small DZ, to show that he can do want he claims.
Eagle5US
12-22-2008, 20:28
Several CCS RTs led by Babysan (+3) and RJ Graham (+3) did static-line infils into Cambodia from UH-1s in early 1970 prior to Billy Waugh's arrival there.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Holy smokes that gives me shivers:eek:
Eagle
Team Sergeant
12-22-2008, 22:33
Update: This morning we were informed that our Battalion commander was officially relieved of command due to the above mentioned infractions. (He admitted he didn't do the jumps)
Thanks for all your input.
Glad to be of assistance!;)
Team Sergeant
NousDefionsDoc
12-22-2008, 22:44
I would let him make a HAHO O2 Night Jump over a small DZ, to show that he can do want he claims.
There it is. Have him report, load up and start in-flight rigging him at about 30K at 0200 over YPG. Tell him he's over Fallujah.
I would let him make a HAHO O2 Night Jump over a small DZ, to show that he can do want he claims.
Nope--a HANO* is more appropriate for this guy. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
*High-Altitude No Opening
BTW he was "asked" to retire........as a Major!
BTW he was "asked" to retire........as a Major!Independent Contractor (IC) with more tales until; he runs across the wrong person(s)....SOB will probably be some PM in Afghanistan at the rate we're going.:D
Stay safe.
So when do we find out who this douchebag is? :confused::munchin
Warrior-Mentor
12-24-2008, 13:44
BTW he was "asked" to retire........as a Major!
OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark. :boohoo
I'm with the rest of you scratching my head as to why a FA guy would jump MFF, let alone get two mustard stains. :munchin
You guys are missing it, FA Officers jump with Mortar shells in their cargo pockets. They drop, hang-fire rounds from under canopy,
i.e., STEALTH FIELD ARTILLERY!!!
I can't believe you didn't get the memo!
The 82nd Air Cav/Recon guys use to go thru HALO School. This was 15 years ago when I saw them jumping. He might of been in one of those units as a LT or Captain. Combat Jumps.........only CAG and SEALS were doing those in Astan as far as I know. I read that in a book for what thats worth.
Combat Jumps.........only CAG and SEALS were doing those in Astan as far as I know. I read that in a book for what thats worth.
I know of 4 non-CAG/SEAL MFF combat jumps in A-stan.