Alien Antenna?

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,

I need some help. I had a long meeting with the inventor of this antenna which he claims can send/receive full duplex commo on several frequency ranges at the same time. Yup. I know it sounds like alien technology, and I have some test data from a chamber at NASA but it just seems too good to be true.

He insists this antenna passively tunes to any radio you plug it into, and it
can handle as much power as you want to pump through it (only limited by the
size of the transmission cable). The antenna can tune to freqs which go from 2Mhz to 5.8 Ghz with the same antenna.

It will supposedly freq hops - no problem - and based on the data I saw it averages a minimum 6dbi - true gain.

Needless to say, I don’t believe him but can’t prove him wrong. Is there anyone that has access to a chamber in SOF so I can get feedback from operators and not rock scientist! My expectations are low, but if this antenna can do ½ of what he claims it does it will revolutionize LOS comms. One antenna for all my radios, with a better dB gain than the antennas we commonly use AND its the size of a
Paperback book. No more antennas getting caught on brush, tree limbs, door frames, rotor blades, etc. One more thing, I guess because the way that its constructed it can take substantial damage and still transmit ‘cause its a fractional antenna.

Anyway, can someone help me out in vetting these claims .

Thanks all-
DeMo

[Griv]

Is there any literature on the web about this antenna?

[Ret10Echo]

I found this digging around.

DeMo, was the term Hexagonal and Pentagonal Fractal Multiband Antennas used?

Off the top I am thinking that in spite of the capabilites of the antenna you would still need to have a radio that was capable of discriminating between all the signals that are out there in that wide of a band. I have sat through some briefs on emerging MIMO technology, but the systems were operating on distinct bands that provided sufficient frequency separation in order to limit interference. The number of antennas was reduced, but there were still multiple systems being operated.

The short article has some diagrams associated (follow the link at the bottom)but no reference to scale. There is a Tech paper that I just pulled up...it required registering on the NASA Tech Briefs site.

Hexagonal and Pentagonal Fractal Multiband Antennas
John F. Kennedy Space Center, Florida
Friday, July 01 2005

These antennas could be suitable for multifunctional wireless-communication products.


Multiband dipole antennas based on hexagonal and pentagonal fractals have been analyzed by computational simulations and functionally demonstrated in experiments on prototypes. These antennas are capable of multiband or wideband operation because they are subdivided into progressively smaller substructures that resonate at progressively higher frequencies by virtue of their smaller dimensions.

The novelty of the present antennas lies in their specific hexagonal and pentagonal fractal configurations and the resonant frequencies associated with them. These antennas are potentially applicable to a variety of multiband and wide-band commercial wireless-communication products operating at different frequencies, including personal digital assistants, cellular telephones, pagers, satellite radios, Global Positioning System receivers, and products that combine two or more of the aforementioned functions. Perhaps the best-known prior multiband antenna based on fractal geometry is the Sierpinski triangle antenna (also known as the Sierpinski gasket), shown in the top part of the figure. In this antenna, the scale length at each iteration of the fractal is half the scale length of the preceding iteration, yielding successive resonant frequencies related by a ratio of about 2. The middle and bottom parts of the figure depict the first three iterations of the hexagonal and pentagonal fractals along with typical dipole-antenna configuration based on the second iteration. Successive resonant frequencies of the hexagonal fractal antenna have been found to be related by a ratio of about 3, and those of the pentagonal fractal antenna by a ratio of about 2.59.

This work was done by Philip W. Tang of Kennedy Space Center and Parveen Wahid of the University of Central Florida. For further information, access the Technical Support Package (TSP) free on-line at www.techbriefs.com/tsp under the Electronics/ Computers category. KSC-12393/482


http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/122?task=view

[Electron]

If you were to plug more than one radio into a single antenna, wouldn't you would still need a multiplexer?

[Ret10Echo]

If you were to plug more than one radio into a single antenna, wouldn't you would still need a multiplexer?

I would see a multiplexer significant if all signals were being processed and distributed to a single end point. I believe what is being proposed is the transmission of distinct signals to disparate systems and locations.
The signal path is not the same and it isn't a composite signal.



Not sure if I am expressing myself clearly.....

[albeham]

Do you have the white paper on this antenna with a picture of it?

[greg700]

Can't speak for what would have to be done equipment-wise in order to handle multiple sets transmitting on different frequencies simultaneously without burning out any other radio plugged into the same antenna, but any antenna should be able to transmit multiple frequencies simultaneously. The antenna will transmit the two signals combined. It's just a matter of how resonant each freq. is for the given antenna. All the receiving radio is going to do is deconvolve the signal using a fourier transform...which they already do....in order to isolate the frequency they are looking for. As far as a listening radio is concerned, it doesn't matter where the *extra* frequencies that are being transmitted come from...might as well be the FM station down the street because the radio is still going to filter them out.

I don't see how you could receive on the same antenna that is actively transmitting without burning out your receiver though.

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the knowledge sharing on this antenna. I may have overstated it's capability by mixing terms.

The inventor claims that the antenna doesn't need to be "cut" per se because it passively tunes to whatever you plug it into. It sounded like the antenna "dumbs down" to whatever the capability of the radio is. So if the system can do full duplex, than so can the antenna, if the radio can frequency hop - the same antenna will freq hop. If the system pushes out 400 watts or 4 watts the antenna can handle both efficiently. It can also have multiple radio's from multiple frequency bands all plugged into it at the same time. I don't think we can transmit on it all at the same time, but I've got no way to test that.
I do know, by looking at that NASA data, that the radio has an extremely "deep bucket", so it's super sensitive and can pick up very weak signals. As a matter of fact they recently tested it in underground facilities and found it to be significantly more effective than the systems they currently had in place.

This is fresh off the brainpan and into the field testing market so there isn't any real data to crunch. I've got some graphs from NASA testing that says it phenomenal, but like I said for all I know it was some other antenna and not the one I've got in my hands. However, if I could get someone I trust to tell me this thing is special, or not - and he is one of our own - then I would be energized.

I read what Ret10Echo wrote, although it took a couple of times and I couldn't read it without moving my lips to sound out the big words - but many of the things you mentioned about fractional antenna's the inventor also mentioned. This antenna looks like some kind of circuit board that has a bunch of little hexagonal shaped things all over it (if you could see what it looked like disassembled).
I don't know if that adds to the discussion or not.

There is no REAL documentation on this antenna you can find on the web. What you may find is all a bunch of hearsay and theoretical thinking. I'm not holding onto the information 'cause I'm competing with some other vendor or anything like that. We are the sole distributor of this item to DOD, but right now we don't know if we want to put our name on it until we know for sure it can do what it says it can do.

I'm hoping to tap into some REAL data that we can measure this antenna against. Would anyone be willing to look at this thing from an independent view and see if it's for real? I'm gonna talk to some of my old 1st Group Commo buds after the holidays to do some field testing, but I need someone that can just measure dB gain and the pattern it resonates at. You know, all that stuff they taught me at the 18E course 15 years ago on antenna thereoy!
Do you guys know of anyone who would be interested in doing that?

Thanks again, and Happy Thanksgiving all -

DeMo

[greg700]

I am willing to help this guy out.

If it works as advertised, I will let everyone know and will even hand out his business cards. But if not, I will also let everyone know.

[Ret10Echo]

Hey guys,
I read what Ret10Echo wrote,

This antenna looks like some kind of circuit board that has a bunch of little hexagonal shaped things all over it (if you could see what it looked like disassembled).

I don't know if that adds to the discussion or not.

There is no REAL documentation on this antenna you can find on the web. What you may find is all a bunch of hearsay and theoretical thinking. I'm not holding onto the information 'cause I'm competing with some other vendor or anything like that. We are the sole distributor of this item to DOD, but right now we don't know if we want to put our name on it until we know for sure it can do what it says it can do.


Do you guys know of anyone who would be interested in doing that?

Thanks again, and Happy Thanksgiving all -

DeMo


Aplogies for geeking out this morning. You caught me fresh. :D

I did manage to download a Tech Brief on the antenna design (NASA Tech Briefs KSC-12393/482). Not a huge amount of information but the design layout is what you mention and it gets into the theory around it so we are talking about the same thing.

In a simple terms it is a grouping of little dipoles bundled in hexagons or pentagons and arranged around a center opening (see image below) and center fed (thus the dipole). The whole thing is basically a wafer from what I saw.

If it is a DoD project there are organizations that can play with those types of things and can do some controlled field work and provide an assessment. Project-managment types should be able to plug in to them. (Look up JITC or AFOTEC they may be able to point them in the right direction)

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,
I'm gonna try to get some of the guys from 1st SFG to field test this thing and I'll post what it does here. I'll also see if I can get one of the 1st Group guys to put in thier observations. Next week is kind of nutz at 1st group 'cause it Menton Week (for some reason we celebrate the deactivation of our unit?!). Anyway, I can't make any promises but I will let you know what happens one way or another.

Gregg, I hope to make my way to Bragg sometime in FEB after the commo convention in San Diego, CA and will definately look you up when I get there - if you're interested in playing with this thing.

Ret10Echo; please continue to bring your technical expertise. I need to understand all aspects of this technology and guys like you and Greg will keep me honest. I'm hoping this is a product that sells itself, and I can let the stats stand alone. The field test will let me know just what this antenna is capable of doing.

Again guys, thanks for your comments and I'll keep you posted.
DeMo

[brushingham.d]

I work in the force mod shop over at and I think after the holidays I may be able to get this into a test down in Tampa, it would take a few calls but I think it could work out, if this does do half of what it say's it will do then it would be something that every commo guy should have even if he is not tx on multiple freq's at the same time at least he won't have to change out ant. If you would like to push this to testing just drop me a line and I will give you my contact info

[DeMo180a]

I would definately be interested in getting this antenna chambered.
I did my first field testing of it using an Motorola XTS 5000 (http://www.motorola.com/business/US-EN/XTS+5000_US-EN.do?vgnextoid=3bc7f1e99e226110VgnVCM1000008406b0 0aRCRD) radio and the bottom line results were that LOS comms using the standard antenna I could reach out .9 miles consistantly with 5X comms. When I switched out the antenna to the Alien Antenna I was able to reach out to 1.6 miles. So that was in increase of .7 miles!!!
Not too shabby at all for just swapping out an antenna, eh?
Send me an email or feel free to call me at 877-772-8383 and we'll talk about making arrangements if you can do it, okay?
Thanks so much for your help!
:)

[Ret10Echo]

I would definately be interested in getting this antenna chambered.
I did my first field testing of it using an Motorola XTS 5000 (http://www.motorola.com/business/US-EN/XTS+5000_US-EN.do?vgnextoid=3bc7f1e99e226110VgnVCM1000008406b0 0aRCRD) radio and the bottom line results were that LOS comms using the standard antenna I could reach out .9 miles consistantly with 5X comms. When I switched out the antenna to the Alien Antenna I was able to reach out to 1.6 miles. So that was in increase of .7 miles!!!
Not too shabby at all for just swapping out an antenna, eh?
Send me an email or feel free to call me at 877-772-8383 and we'll talk about making arrangements if you can do it, okay?
Thanks so much for your help!
:)

Hey DeMo, VHF or UHF?

Shoot me a PM if you develop any opinions on building penetration as you play around with it.

R10

[albeham]

Yep keep us in the loop about this antenna. I know a little about antennas, but like you its good to really test the hell out of it to see what it really can do. Paper can lie.
:munchin
AL

[DeMo180a]

Guys,
I will definately keep you in the loop. Bottom line is BHI isn't gonna sell junk. Never had, never will. I hope to do some more field testing next week with old 18E buddy of mine. He said we'll be able to test out an MBITR, a 117 and we are even gonna try and bounce a satellite (what the heck - that's why they call it field testing right).
Anyways, I'm pessimistic but hopeful that it can do 1/2 of what it should be able to do. Just the stupid XTS 5000 test shows that it's got something under the hood.

Ret10Echo: You know, I don't even know if it was VHF or UHF. BHI HQs sent me the radios with the freq's already loaded, so I just picked Channel 2. I'll try and find out for you though, okay?

I'll let you know what happens next week (fingers crossed).
Have a great weekend all -
DeMo

[Bones25U]

This sounds too good to be true, but if it is...

At the moment I am a BN S6 NCOIC for a light infantry unit getting ready to push out, and if this is really as good as they say it is, it could save me a lot of heartache downrange. Especially if we're going where I think we're going.

I will be checking back often to see what you've learned... :munchin

[DeMo180a]

Bones,
I'm anxiously awaiting too - lol - but because of the holiday season I haven't been able to pin down anyones coat tails and get them to field test this antenna. I'm confident that after the New Year I'll be good to go though.

I'll keep you posted and thanks for your comment! :D
DeMo

[Bones25U]

First of all, happy new year! And now, down to brass tacks.

My unit is going to be going to our MRE at NTC soon (six months or less), is there any chance I could get my hands on a couple of those to test out there? I would love to see how durable and maintenance friendly they are.

If there's even a snowballs chance in hell, I'd do what needs to be done to make this happen.

Thanks.

[DeMo180a]

Okay guys,

You heard it from me first.

It appears that the Aliens have copyright laws and the manufacturer of the antenna has asked for their antenna's back (today) until they get it figured out.

So, this is what happens when you are trying to field cutting edge equipment and I hope you will continue to be patient while we work through the process.

I do have some people, and rather large organizations that were at least interested in looking at the antenna - so that's promising - but we aren't going to field this thing unless it can be done correctly, so I for one am happy it's happened now.

This doens't mean that the antenna isn't effective, this is simply legal issues that need to be sorted out, okay?

Please feel free to send any beratement my way, as I haven't been on an ODA in 3 years now and I miss the daily abuse (lol)
:boohoo

DeMo

[glebo]

Okay guys,

You heard it from me first.

It appears that the Aliens have copyright laws and the manufacturer of the antenna has asked for their antenna's back (today) until they get it figured out.

So, this is what happens when you are trying to field cutting edge equipment and I hope you will continue to be patient while we work through the process.

I do have some people, and rather large organizations that were at least interested in looking at the antenna - so that's promising - but we aren't going to field this thing unless it can be done correctly, so I for one am happy it's happened now.

This doens't mean that the antenna isn't effective, this is simply legal issues that need to be sorted out, okay?

Please feel free to send any beratement my way, as I haven't been on an ODA in 3 years now and I miss the daily abuse (lol)
:boohoo

DeMo

Beratement follows: I guess that's what happens when ya get a chief in the mix:D. Just funnin' ya know:)

[Sinister]

Hope it works.

I remember the first time my commo dudes told me to set out the Eyring antenna and put the elements out on the bushes or on the ground, then proceeded to make NVIS shots up and out of a valley. I thought that was one of the coolest things ever.

[Bones25U]

Was very disappointed to hear that the Aliens want their antenna's back, but I understand thats just how the world works sometimes. I was also disappointed when I found out there was no Santa, but I got over that too.

Please be sure to let me know when the Aliens have made their modification and we can proceed, I am still really looking forward to seeing if this this is all its cracked up to be. :munchin:munchin

[Comsmith22]

What is the latest On the Alien Repo's ... I am Most Intrigued with the design and the theory behind the array...
It looks like it would be a fantastic reception antenna for the entire HF spectrum but my concern would be in the RX/TX simultaneously...
The next point of concern is the use of the antenna for Sat com
Use LOS should be no problem... depending on you freq ya could use a coat hanger to TX but to get a 80% increase on output gain and distance is really great.
Are there going to be trials in the Bragg area?

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,
Sorry it's taken so long to post a reply, but I took a couple of days off after the SHOT show with my family at DisneyWorld; which IS NOT relaxing - lol. I couldn't wait to get home and sleep!!! I guess my age is showing...

Anyway, the antenna is almost ready for re-release, but not yet. I had an opportunity to talk with the manufacturer when I was at the SHOT show and he assures me it won't take long to get this antenna back to market.

To answer Comsmith's questions; believe it bro. I really think this antenna - at a minimum - is going to be able to replace all your LOS antenna's. It has such a "deep bucket" that it is an extremely efficient antenna because it's fractional. I am confident that it is going to increase your TX and your RX capabilities.

Again, according to the man who invented the antenna - if you have a radio capable of duplex communications than this antenna will support it; voice, data, CW - doesn't matter.

I do have a SOF R&D unit ready to test it when it's ready for re-release. I was hoping to send them with our new battery product that we introduced at the SHOT show - they have requested the batteries and will test them soon.

Thanks for the interest in the antenna and as soon as it ready to go, I'll post it here.
DeMo

BTW, Watt hour for Watt hour our batteries are significantly lighter, smaller and have NO HAZMAT compared to the BA-5590. Oh ya, and you can shoot our battery and it keeps discharging power - try that with a 5590. :)

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to give you another update on the antenna. I'm still trying to coordinate with the R&D unit to test the Alien Antenna. It's just a matter of scheduling, so it's only a matter of time until I get feedback. He's doing me a favor so I am on their schedule; we will get it tested though and I'll let you know if it's "Money":D or if it's "Back to the drawing board" :(when he does have an opportunity to test it, okay?
Thanks for your patience!
DeMo
ken@bhigear.com

[albeham]

Cool... I await for your AAR..


:munchin

[DeMo180a]

Hey guys,
I've got good news guys, the 5 watt version of the alien atenna is ready for testing! :D

What are the benefits of this antenna over a normal antenna?
- It is about the size of two credit cards stacked on top of each other and sprayed with a truck bed liner.
- So no more antenna sticking over your shoulder or catching on gear.
- No more rotor strikes or catching your antenna on door frames.
- No more antenna sticking you in the back as you ride in your vehicle!
- No more being identified as the commo guy by snipers. (my favorite)

Again, this particular antenna is only to be used with handheld radio's like the Falcon III, EFJohnson handhelds, or Motorola XTS5000, 2500 or the THALES MBITR. This is the antenna that brought me a 80% increase in distance by just replacing the standard antenna on a Motorola XTS5000.

I've only got a limited amount of antenna's to test, so please be understanding if you have to wait for someone else to test them and return them before I can get them out to the next group of guys. 1st SFG(A) is first in the hopper for testing during a traning exercise (if I can get them here in time).

The cost hasn't been determined yet, but it will be comparable to most high end whip antenna's currently on the market.

Please give me a call or you can email me if you are interested in trying them out! (see below for contact info). Oh ya, if you haven't considered our zinc air batteries check out my other posting on the lighter smaller batteries now available to the force!

DeMo
ken@bhigear.com
253.370.8105
www.bhigear.com

[Ret10Echo]

DeMo,
Do you have anyone lined up that can give a check using the new MOT APX-7000 or the Thales Liberty Multi-Band?

7000 is rated at 6W VHF...

[DeMo180a]

I've got people that want to test the antenna, but no one has told me what they want to test them with.
Can anyone out there test our antenna with these systems?
DeMo

[Bones25U]

I could test it with the MBITR, PRC-150, ASIP, PSC-5 (Shadowfire), and the PRC-117.

[DeMo180a]

Guys,
I know it's been a while since my last posting, but quality over quantity - right. The Alien Antenna (I've got to come up with a real name - lol) is on its way to THALES Communications for field testing. For those of you that don't know THALES is the 3rd largest defense contractor in the world (80 Billion) and they make the MBITR that's on everyones hip.
Its exactly what I had been praying for - an unbias, professional company that can tell me if BHI has a product worth selling or not.
The manufacturer has updated the antenna based on some local field tests done on similiar products and will have them to me this week. Then I'll send them off to THALES for field testing. If THALES like the product, we know we have a hit. If they don't I'm dumping the project. I'm hopeful (obviously) that it's going to be the only antenna available that you can hook up to your MBITR and will cover the entire frequency range of the antenna (30-512Mhz) AND do it as efficiently of more efficiently than their current antenna's.

I will keep you posted on the results and let you know what happens, and again, thanks for your interest in the project.
Also, keep your eyes open for a big announcement in the 18E thread in the next couple of days about Blackheart International's new relationship with THALES.....MTF.:munchin

[ncboy1969]

Ken
I am pretty sure I meet you and Erik L. at the Thales course in MA. I passed your info around the Battlion (the guy loved the calender :eek:). If you still need someone to test you antenna just let me know.
Trent

[The Reaper]

Ken
I am pretty sure I meet you and Erik L. at the Thales course in MA. I passed your info around the Battlion (the guy loved the calender :eek:). If you still need someone to test you antenna just let me know.
Trent

You might want to read the rules and comply before posting again.

Thanks.

TR

[Ret10Echo]

I will keep you posted on the results and let you know what happens, and again, thanks for your interest in the project.
Also, keep your eyes open for a big announcement in the 18E thread in the next couple of days about Blackheart International's new relationship with THALES.....MTF.:munchin

THALES Liberty received FCC type-acceptance :cool:

[DeMo180a]

Ya bro. We (BHI) are in at the very beginnings of the Liberty. It's an amazing product, that gives everyone holding a Liberty Radio the ability to talk to anyone on any frequency range that's responding to the emergency/crisis. From analog FM radio's to the latest and greatest radio's. That's the biggest challenge in responding to a future 9-11. You have county, state, federal governments all involved and responding.
They all have different levels of funding, capabilities and limitations. Well the Liberty can reach out and touch all of them.
It is the answer to all the communications problems leaders and coordinators asked for after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

We are excited about it and will be offering their entire product line when it is ready for release at www.bhigear.com! (gotta get that in there - lol).

[Ret10Echo]

Ya bro. We (BHI) are in at the very beginnings of the Liberty. It's an amazing product, that gives everyone holding a Liberty Radio the ability to talk to anyone on any frequency range that's responding to the emergency/crisis. From analog FM radio's to the latest and greatest radio's. That's the biggest challenge in responding to a future 9-11. You have county, state, federal governments all involved and responding.
They all have different levels of funding, capabilities and limitations. Well the Liberty can reach out and touch all of them.
It is the answer to all the communications problems leaders and coordinators asked for after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

We are excited about it and will be offering their entire product line when it is ready for release at www.bhigear.com! (gotta get that in there - lol).

We are waiting to see how it all lays-out....Capability is one thing, but if the roaming capability is there and the compatability with Motorola's trunked systems works out....

Sharing code-plug data is another challenge. But that is more personality driven than a technology issue.

Meanwhile we all sit and watch the grass grow 'til this thing hits the streets :D

[Mycroft]

Any new news on this? The bhigear site appears to be static and delivers some odd errors at this point...