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KENCITO18D794
11-22-2008, 12:26
I am new to reloading. I have about 1,000 rounds of .223 brass ( mostly Lake City ) imagine that. They are any where between 20 years old and new, so my intention was to decap it all, polish it, and reload it.

Got it decapped with no problems. I have an RCBS Case Master. My question is how long should it take to remove the miliatry primer crimp using the Case Master.

It seems I am grinding quite a bit on some of them.

HOLLiS
11-22-2008, 13:13
About as long as it does to decap them or prime them using a single stage press. Dillion makes a really good pocket swegger. The RCBS one works ok, all-in-all it is not a big job. Just be sure of your set up.


Also get a case gauge and check the case length, Having a uniform length is important.


Note: not all once fired brass is, "Once fired". It is good to inspect any brass that you add to your collection the first time. Also to track your brass as to how many times it has been used, at a minimum.

KENCITO18D794
11-22-2008, 13:26
Hollis,

What do you mean "set up"?

HOLLiS
11-22-2008, 16:03
Hollis,

What do you mean "set up"?

Like any die, it has to be set up to the stroke of your piston. With the RCBS pocket swegge(sp?), one could set it too light or too hard. There are two parts the anvil and the swegger which mounts to the ram, like your shell holder. The Ram can deform the case at the primer vet if set too tight. The force that is needed is just enough to reform the primer pocket, removing the old crimp. I think lighter would be preferred to harder.

Gene Econ
11-22-2008, 19:27
I am new to reloading. I have about 1,000 rounds of .223 brass ( mostly Lake City ) imagine that. They are any where between 20 years old and new, so my intention was to decap it all, polish it, and reload it. Got it decapped with no problems. I have an RCBS Case Master. My question is how long should it take to remove the miliatry primer crimp using the Case Master. It seems I am grinding quite a bit on some of them.

Ken:

If they are mixed lots as you stated, you wll grind on some more than others due to differences in crimping, brass, etc. No sweat. Grind away and the ones where the primer goes in too easily -- get rid of them. The ones where the primer doesn't go in -- you didn't take enough of the crimp out.

As Hollis said, Dillon makes a swaging device that basically rolls the crimp out of the way. It is a decent tool but you will have to adjust it given different lots.

I have the Dillon tool, have broken the RCBS military crimp removal tool and it sucked anyway. And I have reamers that ream out the crimp.

These days I use a reamer attached to a power drill and cut the crimp out. If I cut too much and the primer goes in too easily -- I throw the brass away.

Any way you cut it (he, he, he) you will realize that it is a better bet just buying commercial brass.

Gene

koz
11-22-2008, 20:29
I use a Hornady Primer (http://www.lockstock.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HRN041210)pocket reamer - It's about $13.50 - then I attach it to a drill press with a possum hollow power adapter (http://www.possumhollowproducts.com/power-adapter.html)

Sinister
11-23-2008, 09:14
The Dillon and the CH4D tools are both great for big lots of cases.

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=57

HOLLiS
11-23-2008, 09:50
Gene makes a important point. Not all brass is made the same. It would be wise to sort them as to manufacture. The thickness of the case at the primer vent could effect this operation. Also as I mentioned earlier cases may not be onced fire, same length or same volume. For plinking rounds volume is not a issue. If your going for a high precision load, volume needs to be considered.

Also I think we are making this sound more complicated than it really is, especially for a person with good mechanical skills.

koz
11-23-2008, 13:31
Also if anyone cares - R&R Arms (https://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=CCI41) is selling CCI #41 NATO primers for $19 per 1000.

Gene Econ
11-23-2008, 18:53
Also if anyone cares - URL="https://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=CCI41"]R&R Arms[/URL] is selling CCI #41 NATO primers for $19 per 1000.

Koz:

You are better off avoiding them unless you just want to blast surplus ball bullets out of surplus mixed brass using surplus powder. If that is your intent -- then go for it.

Although I may be talking blasphemy here -- you are better off buying Wolf primers for the same price. In fact, I have found Wolf SR Magnum primers to give me better performance than any small rifle BR, standard, or magnum primer made by a US outfit.

Gene

optactical
11-23-2008, 19:11
Are Wolf's non-corrosive and what is the best source Gene?

Gene Econ
11-23-2008, 19:21
Are Wolf's non-corrosive and what is the best source Gene?

OPT:

I am sure they are non-corrosive and I buy my reloading components from Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/). I have been buying in bulk from Powder Valley for many years now and have found them to be extremely efficient in maintaining an inventory and processing orders.

I was pretty surprised myself about these primers so took the risk that Wolf can maintain an iota of quality control and bought 10K more. That is a risk with Wolf stuff IMHO.

Gene

optactical
11-23-2008, 22:07
Gene, which Wolf primers would you use for:

1. 5.56 A193
2. 5.56 MK262
3. 7.62 M80
4. 7.62 M118
5. 9mm Luger
6. .40 S&W
7. .45 ACP

Also, what else has worked well for you in the past besides Wolf? More importantly, what hasn't worked well?

I'm getting set up here for reloading the above loads.

koz
11-24-2008, 08:32
Koz:

You are better off avoiding them unless you just want to blast surplus ball bullets out of surplus mixed brass using surplus powder. If that is your intent -- then go for it.

Although I may be talking blasphemy here -- you are better off buying Wolf primers for the same price. In fact, I have found Wolf SR Magnum primers to give me better performance than any small rifle BR, standard, or magnum primer made by a US outfit.

Gene

Gene - thanks for the heads-up on the Wolf primers. I bought the #41's for close range (0-25m) playing but after seeing the prices of the Wolf, I may just switch to all one primer. I use Remington 7 1/2 BR primers for my good stuff but I also use good brass. What combination bullet, powder, barrel (length & twist) are you getting good results from the Wolf? I would have never guessed that Wolf would be mentioned in the same sentence as accurate.
thanks
DW

HOLLiS
11-24-2008, 08:54
Gene, thank you for the heads up on Wolf's primers. I will try to keep that in mind on my next bulk purchase. I still have about 10,000 in stock. I need to get out a shoot more. Sadly, my 1600 M range was leased out, the farmer did not want any one out there, so it became a no go. Maybe something will come up around here. The forest companies are doing the same, closing off land. To many couches, refrigerators, etc piling up.

H.

Gene Econ
11-25-2008, 08:28
Gene, which Wolf primers would you use for:

1. 5.56 A193
2. 5.56 MK262
3. 7.62 M80
4. 7.62 M118
5. 9mm Luger
6. .40 S&W
7. .45 ACP

Also, what else has worked well for you in the past besides Wolf? More importantly, what hasn't worked well?

I'm getting set up here for reloading the above loads.

OPT:

I am only shooting Wolf Small Rifle Magnum Primers. I use them and CCI-450's in the 6 AR, 6.5 Grendel, 6 BR, and 6.5 BR. Have tried BR primers and regular primers in all these cartridges and although it surprised me and I question some of it today, I just found that the Wolf SR Magnum primers gave as good accuracy as any of the others if not better and at a lower cost. Also, I believe they are slightly larger in diameter which has benefits when you are using high pressure cartridges. Just remember that I am not shooting Bench Rest competition with them. I don't know what bench rest shooters use.

I would not use a magnum primer for the 5.56 you describe. I have not fired any Wolf primers aside from the SR Magnum so can't comment on their other primers. I also wouldn't use a BR primer for them as I doubt you will realize any difference. So I go with Remington and CCI Small Rifle Primers. If I wanted to push accuracy with the 5.56 I would use CCI-BR-4 primers and see what happens. Probably nothing more than with a regular small rifle primer.

Same goes for the 7.62. For blasting ball ammo use what ever you want to get rid of. Won't matter if they are magnum, bench rest, or regular primers. Load them and blast away.

For the long range loads using large rifle primers -- I go with Federal 210 Match or CCI BR-2. I do think the Bench Rest primer may have an edge here.

I doubt you will find any gross differences in performance between primers. Much of it is your definition of what constitutes significance. I bought a thousand of those military primers and knew within twenty shots that they were not as good as any other 'civilain' primer I had used. They did make a difference which also surprised me.

I won't say that one is better than another. There are many web sites that go on and on about primers. I don't get excited over primers. I just try out things and use what I believe works the best for my purposes.

Gene