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Blitzzz (RIP)
11-14-2008, 16:42
I have a 45-110 sharps. I am working the loads and am looking for a good load to shoot competitively. My loads run about 1650 fps, all that i have read about competition is that they load to about 1450Fps. They say this allows them to shoot all day without too much pain.

The amount of powder I use is less than some of the loads I've read about. It i s black powder and I have a 34 inch barrel and think the powder burns longer down the barrel.

Any one have any suggestions or recipes. I do use corn meal as a filler to fill the case.

Thanks for any help. I used the search button and found nothing on this subject.
If found inappropriate, go ahead and close it. Blitz

HOLLiS
11-14-2008, 18:56
BP is very addicting. Lyman has a powder flask with a drop tube, or you can make one... really helps in uniform charges. From friends who do the 1000M BP cartridge shoot, elephant is the best powder. I haven't done BP long range in about 8 years.


Casting your own bullets help. I should give you the Email of a friend, who is really up on this topic and still competes. He just had by-pass surgery so now maybe is not be in the best of times. I have another friend, who use to write on such things, but his music has pushed long range BP aside. If you have problems finding people with direct knowledge, let me know in PM, I will give you those two people emails.

Why do you use corn meal? The advantage of a longer case is more powder. Cornmeal is for reduce loads for shorter ranges. Like using a Walker pistol for SASS.

There are some old tricks, you want all the powder to be burnt by the time it leaves the barrel.

Some of the tricks now is not resizing cast bullets. Also no reason to resize your cases, if you use only one rifle and then maybe.

I hope this helps, I am a little rusty.

Best of shooting

H.

Peregrino
11-14-2008, 22:08
Nothing wrong with this thread, but you do need to refine your search technique; a couple other guys discussed this a few years back. Send Gene Econ a PM. He's been kind of busy lately and might miss your thread. IIRC he was/is a "font of wisdom" on BP competition.

Blitzzz (RIP)
11-15-2008, 08:47
You're right about longer brass more BP. What I've been reading from some writings on competition is that shooting over 150 rounds a day becomes painful.
I have fired about 50 rounds at one time at present velocities and not been too bothered.
With the longer barrel I'm getting velocities around 1800 Fps. About 200FPS faster than the competiters claim to shoot. I'm hitting well with the sights I have. and have hit 788 yds so far. I am very interested in talking with anyone doing BPC shooting. Thank for the replies. Blitz
I'll try to change my search topics.

HOLLiS
11-15-2008, 10:52
Cabelas has a recoil pad, that is easy on and easy off, sales for $19.99. That is what a lot of shooters use. It is also great for old military rifles, in that it does not alter them.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0009277221946a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=0&Ntk=Products&QueryText=Recoil+pad&sort=all&Go.y=4&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=17&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

Blitzzz (RIP)
11-15-2008, 17:13
Hollis, thanks. I have such a pad on an old Mauser, and it does help. I will buy a shoulder pad instead for the Sharps. I have read that at some competitions no "new Materials are allowed on a weapon. Everything should be of the weapon's age.
In replica of course, so I'm going with a leather shoulder pad. Dave (blitz)

C-Fro
11-15-2008, 18:50
Cornmeal, from my understanding tends to mix with the powder throwing off the muzzle velocity.
My Grandfather and I always used cream of wheat as a filler.
Cream of wheat creates a better seal without mixing with the powder.
Resulting in consistant muzzle velocities.
He shoots a Sharps rifle chambered for the .45-120 cartridge.
So it could easily be the filler and how much of it you use.
IMHO, Blackpowder is tricky but enjoyable, Many variables to consider.
Hope I'm not stepping out of my lane.
Good luck

Blitzzz (RIP)
11-17-2008, 19:50
Fillers aren't mixed with the powder. they are spaced between wads seperate from the power. More like a place keeper. Just to occupy air space in a black powder cartridge.. it does slow velocity which may sometimes be a desired effect. or some times to insure the same amount of powder in each cartridge. This allows more control of velocity. I had not heard of cream of wheat but many different materials. to include Cotton, stacks of wads, oat meal, grits, so why not cream of wheat. thanks, Dave

HOLLiS
11-18-2008, 08:21
Fillers aren't mixed with the powder. they are spaced between wads seperate from the power. More like a place keeper. Just to occupy air space in a black powder cartridge.. it does slow velocity which may sometimes be a desired effect. or some times to insure the same amount of powder in each cartridge. This allows more control of velocity. I had not heard of cream of wheat but many different materials. to include Cotton, stacks of wads, oat meal, grits, so why not cream of wheat. thanks, Dave

The only time I have heard or done reduced charges is in pistol loads. Lets say you have a Colt Walker and want a lighter load.

Filler is also used in rifle loads when smokeless (Modern powder is used). Filler is using pillow stuffing fiber (polyester) I had a trap door and to use a modern powder that is what I used.

I have heard of cream of wheat. On a metallic cartridge load, I would use a powder measure to dispense the powder, another the filler, then the wad, then compress the load with the bullet. All BP loads are compressed loads. That is why filler's are used to adjust the load, if bullet depth/wad/powder granulation size combination does not do it.


Only non-compressed load that I know of, is the 1857 combustible cartridge sharps.

C-Fro
11-18-2008, 13:56
Casting your own bullets does help.
I'm not sure of the metal ratios of the store baught bullets are.
I don't think they expand enough.
My Grandfather and I use a 1:20 mix when we cast.
One part Tin to 20 Parts Lead.
I have also known people to use 1:30, 1:40,
IMO, these bullets are too soft.
Our mold we had to get custom made.
I'm not sure with your rifle Blittz, if you would have to get custom made,
If so, here is the web site we ordered ours from.
/http://www.brooksmoulds.com/
Works great.

Gene Econ
11-19-2008, 20:31
I have a 45-110 sharps. I am working the loads and am looking for a good load to shoot competitively. My loads run about 1650 fps, all that i have read about competition is that they load to about 1450Fps. They say this allows them to shoot all day without too much pain. The amount of powder I use is less than some of the loads I've read about. It i s black powder and I have a 34 inch barrel and think the powder burns longer down the barrel. Any one have any suggestions or recipes. I do use corn meal as a filler to fill the case. Thanks for any help. I used the search button and found nothing on this subject. If found inappropriate, go ahead and close it. Blitz

BZ:

Just because you are a QP. I bought my first Shilo Sharps in 1982 when you could get them within two weeks of order. He, he, he.

One of them is a 45-90 Long Range Express with XXX Walnut and the adjustable aperature front sight with long range rear sight. Haven't shot any of them for four or five years and have a case of Goex sitting around getting unstable.

I never got consistent results from any PP bullet so I would write that one off if I were you but I know how guys are and you will probably spend at least $1K on PP bullets before you figure out that they aren't that good afterall.

I shot a Lyman 457-123 bore rider through the rifle. It was extremely consistent and weighed in at about 510 grains. Any decent ALOX will work fine with it. I would shoot a duplex load of about 5 grains of 4227 or similar smokeless with about 75 grains of 2F black. My best loads were 80 grains of 2F and a card wad. It would hold two minutes at 200 which was pretty good for cast bullets and black powder. I never got that accuracy with smokeless except for a 38-55.

I tried grease wads, different thickness of card wads, etc, etc, etc. The only difference was in terms of how much time you wanted to spend to get the same results!

To me, the difference will be in terms of your bullet choice, alloy, and how anal you are about the bullet itself. Not sure who is making the best molds anymore but Lyman and LBT did a good job then. Get the best mold and use the most pure alloy. Understand your casting temperatures, mold temperature, and fluxing variables and then go for it. You ought to be able to make fifty decent bullets in an hour or two out of maybe 75 cast.

My 45-90 was right at 1300 fps with those Lyman bullets, softest lead I could find in fact. 80 grains of 2F. Quite a good shooter in terms of the cartridge.

Have fun!

Gene

blchandler
12-24-2008, 09:32
really glad to see some real shooters still out there

what a joy to shoot,casting for ol' sharps is a blast, for compitition paper patching is a lost art but for any of the bp from 44 to 600 's is a real step inproving accuracy, barrel logrithmic acceration , rotational gripping, uniform case pressures.
basically drop 10to 35 thousands and paper the out side of the bullet to the desired bullet compression
for plinking, i don't compress more than a thousand

old timer's liked 5 to 10 thousand

accuracy is quit remarkable for those bp long shooter,

you are on close to the mark on those speed on the bp long gun's is not as important as consistant loads

Blitzzz (RIP)
12-24-2008, 10:49
I've had some eye problems due to a brain lymphoma but my vision has been responding well, and I was able to hit a man sized target at 788 yards with my Sharps.

Went back and have been working on consistency with loads. they are looking pretty good. when it warms a little I'll go back to the range.
I'm also working at a really long range 30-06 using a 240 gr HPBT Seirra and IMR 4064. I've gotten it to 1300 meters and am tryng to go to 1600 meters, but when i changed powder and eliveted the velocity the 100 meter groups spread of over 4 inches, With the 1300 meter recipe it grouped .56 moa at 100 meters. I may stick with the 1300 meter formula. this should be on another thread I'll look for one. Blitzzz

blchandler
12-24-2008, 11:16
wow
been trying to get some guys turned on to that 30 cal combo

240, .308 matchking HPBT talk about a factory consistant bullet.

1000 m combo

best results 2200fps using accurate 870 pwder

almost no windage, presecion, very little dynamic loss best of all piont blank range is all the way out to 230 yards.

800 meter target kinitic energy is unreal

Blitzzz (RIP)
12-24-2008, 21:37
in 308 I use the 175 gr Seirra HPBT and RL 15. I think I'm going to try 4831, it seems interesting. At @2750fps the 15HPBT is transonic to 1200 meters very do able. The 168gr Match is only transonic to 1000 meters. , blitzzz

The Reaper
12-24-2008, 21:57
in 308 I use the 175 gr Seirra HPBT and RL 15. I think I'm going to try 4831, it seems interesting. At @2750fps the 15HPBT is transonic to 1200 meters very do able. The 168gr Match is only transonic to 1000 meters. , blitzzz

I think you mean supersonic.

Aircraft and projectiles are transonic within a narrow range above and below Mach 1.

The loads you mention are transonic only at the point they are transitioning to subsonic flight. Prior to that, they are supersonic during their flight.

TR