View Full Version : 60 Minutes: Reserves/Nat Guard in civilian workforce facing serious challenges
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmGBHixP5F2UA7kR07zXMEhh24cA/SIG=12fdosfso/**http%3A//cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/ynews%3Fch=4227541%26cl=10475386%26lang=en
This is several clips long, so it keeps running after commercials. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Stu
Warrior-Mentor
11-03-2008, 19:42
This is typical CBS (& 60 Minutes) CRAP. They've found a few scattered stories and exploited them. This is by & large the exception from what over 95% of Reservists and Guardsmen experience.
Typical MSM crap.
I don't know if this is a garbage story or not. I was in the National Guard prior to my going to the active side last year. The very reason I went to the active side was because I couldn't find or keep any jobs, due to what I felt was my being in the NG. I'll explain:
I joined the NG in 2005 and completed AIT on 1SEP2005. I couldn't be happier as I was planning on starting a medical career with a very basic introductory position. I was in the UT MEDCOM and attended every drill. I started to volunteer for extra work (CLS etc) because I was starting to have serious issues finding a job. At about 6 months after my graduation I had put in hundreds of applications in such desperation as to apply in the lucrative market of fast food, and even temp agencies, to no avail. I finally received a job with a Fertilizer and mineral company in northern UT which provided a decent salary. It lasted 2 weeks before they had to "downsize", and I and 1 other guy were "let go"(the one guy oddly enough was NG, and having the same problems I was... interesting indeed).
I was becoming so frustrated after another 6 months without a job (mind you I have a wife and young child at this point) I had to call in a connection with my uncle to get a min. wage job in missouri. I was so desperate I took this job, and voluntarily seperated from my family JUST to have job. Now I can already here the critics saying "How do you know it was because you were in the NG?" Well, I don't directly know, but I will tell you this, it is interesting how quickly the interview would change when they stumbled upon my NG entry and notice that I had to drill, and those were the few times I even got interviewed.
Before I joined the NG I had no problems finding jobs. I would put in an a couple applications and have employers falling all over themselves to hire me. I don't know if the job market changed that rapidly, but my sister didn't seem to have any issue getting a job, and neither did my wife. This may be just an example of how things were in Utah for the time I was there, and be anecdotal at best. I just felt like I needed to share it though, so it doesn't seem like there are only a couple of people who the media 'cherry picked'.
Defender968
11-04-2008, 07:58
Warrior Mentor, respectfully sir I would disagree, I hate to agree with CBS in any way, however after being a traditional reservist and in LE for the past 5 years I've personally seen allot of my troops get discriminated against, and I have seen it first hand as well.
In my experience most times it is an undercurrent, not outright discrimination, they love you when you're there, but each time you have to leave for a school or a deployment, or just for a week for miscellaneous military duty there is resistance, and what's worse is it becomes cumulative.
I know personally when an investigator job opened up that I was qualified for, I got told in no uncertain terms by a SGT in the PD that I was welcome to apply, but with my being gone so much it would hurt the team if I were selected, needless to say I didn't get the job, was it against USERRA, well probably but I'd have to hire a lawyer and sue to try to get them to change the decision and while I may have had a case if I won I'd have basically blackballed myself among leadership, and pissed off allot of the other guys I worked with, who would be upset as they aren't gone all the time, especially the guy who got the job so I chose to just let it go.
Another example would be my military boss, who is a State employee, who has been passed over for a promotion several times for less qualified people, keep in mind he and I both are on Military duty probably 90 days or more a year when not deployed. He interviewed for this promotion again this year, he is and has been extremely qualified for it, and has finally gotten it this year, but the hiring authority told him in the interview that to be hired for this job he'd have to be around, he couldn't be gone all the time, and my boss was more or less forced to tell them he would put in his retirement papers. Now he was thinking about retiring anyway, however the way they handled it, was again probably illegal but it happened none the less. I could go on and on about my troops and their employment issues but I won't. I will simply say that this issue is real, and it does happen more often than it should, does it happen to everyone, well I sure hope not, but in career fields that are stressed I think it probably happens often. I have been both on Active duty, and in the Reserves, and am transitioning to the Guard, and I have to say our Reservists and Guardsman sacrifice a great deal, I'm not saying they sacrifice more than Active duty, just differently, and one of those sacrifices is in their civilian careers. It is extremely difficult to successfully juggle a military and a civilian career, because it's nearly impossible to serve two masters as they both feel they're not getting your best, or just not getting it as often as they'd like.
Now granted my experience has been with the AF thus far and in Security Forces we are only deploying for 6 months every 3 years (or so) but it does have an effect on our civilian employment. I would guess that our Army Guardsman and Reservists are feeling it even more as they've been called up more frequently and for longer terms.
Just my .02
Yes, It is pretty bad in the Army Guard. The happiest Guardsmen I think are students. Those others Guard Soldiers with Federal jobs are next, though some agencies are better for Guard Soldiers to work at than others (TSA throws huge hissy fits).
But by and large there are many employers to include various municipalities that are very averse to hiring Guard Soldiers... Even in Oregon. I suspect that this has a lot to do with the quality of Soldiers we are able to get as well. I have seen that quality decline a great deal over the last few years. We used to get studs, now we get some real winners in and amongst the okay ones. We'll make due.
I think one of the civilians was on track when he mentioned the idea of the Fed providing incentive to companies that hire Guard Soldiers. This could help improve our Army, as it would allow quality individuals with the inclination towards service the opportunity to do so by ensuring that they could keep a quality civilian position.
Give employers a tax break to offset the cost to employ and retain a Guard Soldier; I think this would improve the quality of the ranks and help with our unit strength in the Guard. Not sure if it might hurt Active component numbers, depends on how successful the incentives for companies are.
I respect what our Active duty brothers do, but unless you have walked a mile in our shoes as a Guardsman or Reservist, you just don't understand.
I know many, many soldiers with chilling stories.
Deploying? You will leave your family behind in a place where nobody around them can relate to what they're going through.
Need access to healthcare? Hope you can make due with Tricare - because the in-network providers are usually bottom of the barrel. Maybe that's no big deal if you just need a bone set, but what if your wife needs an OB/GYN or your child is born with serious health problems?
Injured in the line of duty? Prepare for MMSO to drag it's feet, send you to the TMC on random JRB's or other small posts, and shrug it's shoulders when the specialists you need for proper care are not "in-network". Too bad, they don't have to look you in the face and really don't care. Good luck getting better.
Taking time off for training or deployment? USERRA is a joke. Most Guardsmen live paycheck to paycheck, and by the time their case works its way through the system they will have lost everything or settled on perpetual underemployment. If you own a small business, your enlistment might as well be a suicide pact economically.
I know that I sound very negative, but too many people simply revert to a hooah attitude and insist that we "drive on". Well, that is exactly what the vast majority of us are doing. But is it fair for the country to get such an important part of the force on the cheap and then take NO responsibility for soldiers' welfare when they return home?
The system is badly broken and the military needs to either break its dependency on reservists or strike a new deal with them, otherwise it will never be able to attract and retain the type of people it needs to win our nation's wars.
james13f
11-04-2008, 12:57
I've been told outright that I was not hireable because I couldn't work one Saturday a month.
Several of my Soldiers have regular problems with their employers. USERRA is a good idea, but hardly enforceable, especially in a right-to-work state. Even employers that are "Guard friendly" such as the PD I worked for have little to no understanding of USERRA. "We will let you go with a copy of your orders", "You didn't volunteer for duty that day, right?", "We put you down for vacation leave those days instead of unpaid time off like you requested". They had good intentions, but were violating USERRA over and over, making it awkward for me by putting the pressure on me to correct my bosses.
There was a section SGT who was told by his state employer when he retired from the Guard that "Now you can work all those weekends that you missed over so many years."
It is a difficult path to remain a Guardsman/Reservist past the student days and first enlistment, and will remain so while the OPTEMPO is as its current level.
Yes, It is pretty bad in the Army Guard. The happiest Guardsmen I think are students. Those others Guard Soldiers with Federal jobs are next, though some agencies are better for Guard Soldiers to work at than others (TSA throws huge hissy fits).
But by and large there are many employers to include various municipalities that are very averse to hiring Guard Soldiers... Even in Oregon. I suspect that this has a lot to do with the quality of Soldiers we are able to get as well. I have seen that quality decline a great deal over the last few years. We used to get studs, now we get some real winners in and amongst the okay ones. We'll make due.
I think one of the civilians was on track when he mentioned the idea of the Fed providing incentive to companies that hire Guard Soldiers. This could help improve our Army, as it would allow quality individuals with the inclination towards service the opportunity to do so by ensuring that they could keep a quality civilian position.
Give employers a tax break to offset the cost to employ and retain a Guard Soldier; I think this would improve the quality of the ranks and help with our unit strength in the Guard. Not sure if it might hurt Active component numbers, depends on how successful the incentives for companies are.
JGarcia,
One of my roomates in college was in the Guard here in Oklahoma...and she was echoing the same sentiments as you.
(I think she was Miss Black America...or runner-up...georgous!)
In any case, FWIW, please know that American civilians support You Guys! And we thank you all for your service!:)
Holly