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RakGunner187
10-21-2008, 23:48
I'm currently getting my packet sent up minus physical, which I should be faxing tomorrow to my recruiter. I'm hoping we can have all of our ducks in a row soon enough so I can attend selection this winter, January or February time frame. I have been working very hard on my PT and have successfully taken my 2 mile time from late 16s to late 14s, but now I seem to have hit a plateau so to speak. I try to run hard enough that if I had to speak, I would not be able to. I have tried HITT and long slow runs. I think my upper body strength is doing good but my run time is causing me some frustrations. If anyone has any pointers on how to drop some time off of my run, I would greatly appreciate it. I know it won't happen over night but I know that you have to change things up all the time for muscles to grow and gain better endurance, so I think my body is getting used to my schedule of running. I heard that some people have lost some time on their runs when they conducted crossfit workouts. I will be researching these workouts in the next few days and will continue to stab at the stopwatch until I get where I want. Thanks in advance for help sent my way.:lifter



Ne Desit Virtus

Scimitar
10-22-2008, 01:59
Hello Rak,

I am far from being a QP (yet) but taking time out to recover is important. Often refered to as Active Recovery (ref doc.). Don't over train buddy. Personally I wouldn't recommend to much of busting your a** flat out running. I think this document explains it best. It's an Army ROTC program. Train smart.

http://www.armyrotc.vt.edu/PT/APFT_Conditioning_Program.doc

Best of luck and let me know if it helps

S

RakGunner187
10-22-2008, 20:38
Will do. Thanks for the help. I noticed today that my right big toe joint was swollen and creates some pretty intense pain when I step on it, gonna take a break from running for about a week or two and hope that it heals quickly. I hate running, but its something that has to be done. I know the route I'm taking isn't going to be easy, I just hope my body can take the punishment since its mind over matter....I don't mind and it don't matter. I've always been told I'm hard headed, just hope my body will be as hard so I don't get injured. I do warm up before I workout but have done some research lately that said if I stretch too much before running it will actually take away strength from me or something along those lines but the long stretches afterward are a must. Thanks again for the help man.:lifter


Ne Desit Virtus

booker
10-22-2008, 20:41
Crossfit does not replace the need for sport specific workouts (in your case running). This has been covered ad nauseum on this board, use the search button (I would highly suggest the section labeled "PT/ H2H" as well).

Scimitar
10-22-2008, 21:48
Hey Rak,

I wouldn't take a break for two weeks.

Try some Active Recovery. You got access to a pool? 10-20 min of VERY easy swimming (60-70% HR kinda thing). It'll keep you off that foot too.

S

pope81018
10-25-2008, 18:32
How long have you been running?

I am an avid cross country and track runner at my high school, and I have four good years of experience with distance running. A lot of what I have to say will depend on how long you have been training for running. This will be a long post.

You are right that you won't drop time over night. During the fall I race a 5K (3.1 miles) at least once a week. Our team starts training for our first meet in September all the way back in June. We start with distance runs, pure, good distance runs. You're in the upper 14 minute range on the 2 mile, so your distance runs should be around 1 and 1/2 to 2 minutes slower per mile...or right about 9 minute/mile, for 40-50 minutes. This is a pace that you can maintain for a long period of time, yet it will build endurance in the legs cardio. Those types of runs should be done for a month or two, to build your base. One distance run each week should exceed 65 minutes. This is because after about 60 minutes, your slow-twitch muscles will have been worked, and your legs will start to use fast-twitch muscles, which are important for speed/strength. It will happen like someone turned a switch, and it will feel weird.

Once you have your base, there are several workouts to fine-tune your run. Tempo runs, pace workouts, speed workouts, and lifting will all help.

Tempo runs- This is a run which you pick a pace and maintain it for 20 minutes. I can't give you a pace because I don't want to assume your 5k time, but you could start with running 30-40 seconds slower per mile than your best 2 mile time. Ex: I was running a 17:30 5k in September, so I was running 6 minute/mile pace for tempo runs, or 90 seconds per lap on a track. You want to maintain the same pace as long as possible- no faster, no slower. This will help build your lactic threshold, which will help you run faster and hurt less. We usually do one of these per week, and they have helped me more than any other workout.

Pace miles- This is a workout where you run your race pace - and eventually faster -- for a mile. Running upper 14s, that means you should try and run 3x ~7:15 per mile, with a full recovery jog/walk between each mile. This will again build the lactic threshold, and help get your legs get into the groove of the pace.

Speed workouts- This will be especially important for a 2 mile run. Two kinds I would recommend: 8x 1/4 mile (or 400 meters, 1 track lap) at your fastest 2 mile pace, and 17-20x 200 meter sprints, at fastest 2 mile pace. These will build strength in your legs, and will greatly improve your turnover rate.

Lifting- Wall sits, toe-raises, ab workouts, and shoulder exercises. Something that helped me achieve my 16:03 5k yesterday is a shoulder exercise I learned from a Jamaican olympic marathon runner.
Hold your arms straight out to your sides (wingspan) with your palms facing the sky. Make a medium-sized circle forward, and hold for 2 counts, x25. Then reverse the circles x25, holding for 2 seconds between each circle. After you get accustomed to this, increase the amount of time between each circle, and increase the rep count. This will get rid of that arm fatigue that everyone feels in the last part of a hard run.

Stretching before and after is KEY. Stretching before a run should never be static, meaning never hold the stretch for more than 5 seconds, and always move after you stretch. Static stretching causes micro-tears in the muscles, which as you said, will weaken the muscle. Static stretching is very good for post-run, but not before. "Active stretching" is what you want.

Continuously racing 2 miles to get a better time will not get you anywhere. Train, train, train!

That is a lot of info, and I could keep going, but that should give you something to try out. If you want more specifics, please PM me, I love to talk about running.

SF718
10-25-2008, 19:17
pope....

great info

ZonieDiver
10-25-2008, 19:41
pope....

great info

+1 pope!

Your post brought back memories of my HS XC days... and the barfing after repeat 440's and 220's. (FOG's did'nt run 200 m and 400m!)

MVS2
10-25-2008, 19:47
Hello Rak,

I am far from being a QP (yet) but taking time out to recover is important. Often refered to as Active Recovery (ref doc.). Don't over train buddy. Personally I wouldn't recommend to much of busting your a** flat out running. I think this document explains it best. It's an Army ROTC program. Train smart.

http://www.armyrotc.vt.edu/PT/APFT_Conditioning_Program.doc

Best of luck and let me know if it helps

S


Nor am I a QP - Being ABLE to speak and communicate after some vigorous running would probably be advantageous. Try training to do that, giving yourself a deserved positive reinforcement (whatever works for you) when you shave time off of your run.

pope81018
10-25-2008, 21:04
Thank you SF718 and ZonieDiver. I'm always happy to contribute any bit of knowledge I have that might help current or aspiring soldiers!

mark46th
10-26-2008, 23:06
I found there are two things you can do to prepare yourself physically for the selection process. Play Basketball or soccer for 3 hours a day, five days a week. This will give you the legs. After that, start doing pushups at about 8:00 PM and keep doing them until you pass out or fall asleep. That will give you the upper body. I am dead serious.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant if you ain't got the heart...

jsragman
10-27-2008, 03:41
How about the Keep it Simple Stupid methodology - Thought about the SFAS Workout program? Seems to work for some reason...

Just a thought,

-Derek

I ran into this on another board with fitness experts. What they and the people that go to them don't understand is that SFAS and what not is not about physical fitness. Yes, you have to be fit. Most that go are and almost any program that involves the exercises and rucking will work.

You aren't there to pass a PT test. You are there to get selected. To answer the question.

Would I take him on my Team?

SF718
10-27-2008, 10:36
The SFAS Prep manual is a good reference. The book "how to get selected" is probably the best reference i have personally seen. I bought it even after being in group because of what i find to be its specificity to the job beyond selection.
Popes info on a running program is an excellent reference from a subject matter expert. Yes, it is very specific to a competitive runner but it deserves investigation if running is considered a personnel weakness.
Heart, intensity and motivation are three aspects of training you cant buy on a shelf. In my opinion, in order to tap into those resources you need to have a clear understanding of what your trying to get into and why. I think that if you are unclear, then your going to have a problem when the chips are down regardless of how in shape you think you are, i.e. i went through selection in february, some cold days, we seen people walk away because it started to rain....anyway. Muscle and endurance are surely crucial but if someone was to ask you "why are you here?" how would you answer? The clearer you can answer that, and mean what you say, the better your chances are for sure. Which leads me to another point "the will to win compares little with the will to prepare to win"(blauer) think about that.
So along with you trying to find a suitable train-up, spend some time trying to truly understand what you think your getting into.Its important to have a place to go when the cards are against you. We come in all shapes and sizes and with different fitness levels including how well are "heart" is conditioned (catch my drift?).

dee

Blitzzz
10-28-2008, 00:21
Good info SF718. There are a multitude of ways and methods to prepare. I will pass on what a team SGT told me in my early days on OKI. He told me to create an A-Team with all the people I knew and pick twoof the best of each MOS and then see if I put myself on that team. If I didn't then I should train to e good enough to be on my own team. Try it. Blitz

PS In the end when all else fades/fails you will have conscious thought and will to take you on... and on.

hdgb
11-05-2008, 12:40
You are all right and giving good advice even the running scientist...
but here is the deal youngster. Ruck up,, put the pill on your back and walk fast.
If you can't pass the 2miler , you don't need to be going to slection to start with. On that subject however do the hills, run your two miler training straight up hill. When the flat comes you will feel like your flying. Ask the boys from colorado about the hills ugh lovely.
Ya i'm old school but the rucksack will make or break you in SFAS,, most men never understand the pain of having that bad boy attached to them for so long. Its mental almost as much as physical. Move with it and love it make it your friend. I've seen many great runners in SF sub 10min guys but after some serious miles under the monster , those skinny little legs buckled like twigs. My opinion is presented for your consumption and that opinion is measure your preparedness under the rucksack. I say this even tho i was on scuba teams and we ran alot. It doesn't take a degree in running science or physical fittness my friend it takes heart ,,, find that and you win.

SMP9168
11-09-2008, 22:00
Stretching before and after is KEY. Stretching before a run should never be static, meaning never hold the stretch for more than 5 seconds, and always move after you stretch. Static stretching causes micro-tears in the muscles, which as you said, will weaken the muscle. Static stretching is very good for post-run, but not before. "Active stretching" is what you want.

Hey pope, when you talk about static stretching, I've never heard of only holding a stretch for 5 seconds before running. I've been holding my stretches for 10 to 15 seconds before I run - thats what I was taught since high school. They always said, "Don't bounce!" Can you explain this "active stretching?"

cornelyj
11-10-2008, 15:10
Muscles should be stretched for the prescribed activity. Overstraining/over-stretching before workout is a common mistake. Active stretching is another word for dynamic stretching and there is a plethora of "advice" and information on the subject. Most being out dated or just plain wrong at times.

The longer 10-15 second stretches should be completed after movement or workout. Pre-workout there should be more movement and dynamic activity which in turn creates a dilation of capillaries and decreased viscosity of blood and literately warms the muscles this should facilitate the movement of oxygen though your body which in turn creates performance. Performance is the goal.


http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/contractions.shtml
http://books.google.com/books?id=qtCJa7zI8gEC&source=gbs_ViewAPI
Title: A comparison of the effects of a cryotherapy and a thermotherapy stretching program on the flexibility of the hamstring muscles in untrained, uninjured female adolescents
by Megan Mazzei.
Published: 2002.
Description: v, 51 leaves.
Notes: Thesis (M.S.)--Slippery Rock University, 2002.
Includes bibliographical references (leaves 30-33).
Microfiche. Eugene : Microform Publications, University of Oregon, 2002. 1
The warmer the chemotherapy the better the result in stretching; results were very skewed toward warm chem. treatment and bell curve like when applied with light jog. When a jog warm-up was added this suggested that the literally warmer muscles allowed the actual performance of subject to be shown with actual affects of muscle tension.

lunges, proper rolls and light jogs. before activity. I have been taught to discourage static stretching as muscles are more prone to damage if stretched while cold.
longer and harder after. (still no bouncing!). apply the "slow is smooth..." technique here.


kinda OK Stretches

The following stretches (many of which are commonly performed) are considered risky due to the fact that they have a very high risk of injury for the athlete that performs them. This does not mean that these stretches should never be performed. However, great care should be used when attempting any of these stretches. Unless you are an advanced athlete or are being coached by a qualified instructor (such as a certified Yoga instructor, physical therapist, or professional trainer), you can probably do without them (or find alternative stretching exercises to perform). When performed correctly with the aid of an instructor however, some of these stretches can be quite beneficial.


The traditional backbend

In this exercise, your back is maximally arched with the soles of your feet and the palms of your hands both flat on the floor, and your neck tilted back. This position squeezes (compresses) the spinal discs and pinches nerve fibers in your back.

The traditional hurdler's stretch

This exercise has you sit on the ground with one leg straight in front of you, and with the other leg fully flexed (bent) behind you, as you lean back and stretch the quadricep of the flexed leg. The two legged version of this stretch is even worse for you, and involves fully bending both legs behind you on either side. The reason this stretch is harmful is that it stretches the medial ligaments of the knee (remember, stretching ligaments and tendons is bad) and crushes the meniscus. It can also result in slipping of the knee cap from being twisted and compressed.

Straight-legged toe touches

In this stretch, your legs are straight (either together or spread apart) and your back is bent over while you attempt to touch your toes or the floor. If you do not have the ability to support much of your weight with your hands when performing this exercise, your knees are likely to hyperextend. This position can also place a great deal of pressure on the vertebrae of the lower lumbar. Furthermore, if you choose to have your legs spread apart, it places more stress on the knees, which can sometimes result in permanent deformity.

Torso twists

Performing sudden, intense twists of the torso, especially with weights, while in an upright (erect) position can tear tissue (by exceeding the momentum absorbing capacity of the stretched tissues) and can strain the ligaments of the knee.

If it hurts you are wrong... if you are in pain push harder.
Happy PT:lifter

pope81018
11-10-2008, 16:20
cornelyj covered the answer better than I could have in words. The specific drills are a little difficult to describe in text, so I will show you a few video clips that demonstrate what basic active stretching consists of.

This clip below contains basic stretches that everyone should complete before exercising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppg-ALSHEaE

The next clip below has a bunch of additional warm up activities that will help loosen muscles and raise your heartrate. The buttkicks and B skip drill are the most applicable to distance running. Thats not to say the other drills won't help, but I would consider them more for competitive runners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcH97Dx8VCk

These drills look really silly, I know. But they are extremely helpful additions to any running exercises.

I hope this response helped!

perdurabo
11-10-2008, 17:53
Some things which have worked for me and may or may not work for you:

1.) Ensure you adequately rest.

2.) Do _rapid_ hikes up a long (1-2 miles) incline with a weighted pack. This had the benefits of increasing my leg and core muscle strength and increased my leg muscle speed. This is my single biggest bang for the buck, but learn to enjoy suffering. I do a local 2 mile, 30-45 degree incline with a 45lbs pack and haul ass with no resting.

3.) Cross-train on a bicycle or swimming. This improves performance, and helps speed muscle recovery and gives your legs something a little different to do. I tend to do these on my "rest" days of my running schedule.

4.) Do farklets. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fartlek

4) Stay hydrated all of the time

5) Stretch your quads, hamstrings, calves, ankles, knees. Keep them limber.

6.) Get adequate rest. No, really.

Another technique I sometimes use on long runs when my legs are exhausted is shortening my stride, but running at a more rapid pace, so that you look like you're pedaling on a bike in too low (less resistance) of a gear. It takes some practice, but I'm able to run distances much faster while burning far fewer calories.

Hope some of this helps,
Jake

MILON
11-10-2008, 18:13
All,

Thought I'd add to the list of resources.

http://www.xlathlete.com/browse_admin.jsp?browse_kind=2&sport_id=0&group_id=18


http://www.xlathlete.com/browse_admin.jsp?browse_kind=2&sport_id=0&group_id=19


Each exercise on the site has an instructional video with it.

Matt

pope81018
11-10-2008, 18:14
Another technique I sometimes use on long runs when my legs are exhausted is shortening my stride, but running at a more rapid pace, so that you look like you're pedaling on a bike in too low (less resistance) of a gear. It takes some practice, but I'm able to run distances much faster while burning far fewer calories.

That is a very good point-- changing your stride will help immensely during distance runs. Changing your stride length will give you the opportunity to exercise different muscles, delaying fatigue by a good amount. This really helps for hills; short, quick strides up the hill, long strides on the downhill.

Good point!

RakGunner187
11-20-2008, 19:11
Thats some great info guys. I will be sure to put it to use. My upper body strength is the best it has ever been with good strength and endurance that I've never had. I've never pushed myself so hard in my life. When I'm lifting or running and I want to quit, I envision that tab and I get mad at myself for even thinking quit, then I push harder. Only thing left right now is the second part of the physical, have to go to Redstone for that since for some reason I can't do it here at Campbell but will try to get some help with that tomorrow. I have been busy trying to find another job lately and think something has come through, will know Sat, so I've been hitting the gym and taking it easy on the cardio. Now its time to hit the road again with the knowledge you gentlemen have bestowed upon me. Hopefully I can also find someone here that likes to run and workout so I can have someone push me even harder. So far I've been smart about working out and have only had the foot problem. No pulled lat like I had in Kabul, that sucked. I will be contacting the active duty recruiters for SF tomorrow in hopes that they know someone that can help with the second part of the physical and also if I can join them for PT. There's just something about having someone else who's better than you to make you work harder at something. I know I'll never be the best, but I will push every second of everyday to surpass the next best guy. So, if anyone in 5th wouldn't mind a partner in the gym or on the road, I would greatly appreciate it. I can't thank you guys enough for the tips and to a certain someone who remembered my bday,lol, I've never felt old until now and I know I'm still young. Thanks again guys and I hope to join your ranks soon.