View Full Version : gas piston carbines
RichL025
10-05-2008, 09:03
Well, I read Reaper's (excellent) sticky-d thread about carbines in general, but I am still interested in the idea of getting one of the gas-piston carbines to replace my old, POS current M4 knock-off (a rattle-y piece of junk cobbled together from a pre-ban lower).
H&K still isn't offering their upper to the civilian market, right? So that leaves Leitner-Wise, POF, a company called DSA, and does anyone know about any other piston-driven carbines?
More importantly, anyone have any of them? Likes? Dislikes (aside from the higher cost & slightly higher mass that is).
Intended uses: fun shooting, home defense.
Ambush Master
10-05-2008, 09:23
I've got a POF Upper on an M16A1. I've only run about 1K rounds through it and I realy like it. It slowed the cyclic down considerably and you can make very accurate shots in the "Group Therapy Mode"!!
PWS - Primary Weapon Systems (http://www.primaryweapons.com) makes an aftermarket system but has to be put in by one of their "installers." I heard that Wes G. at MSTN (http://www.mstn.biz) has done several of the conversions for guys.
POF's are really nice too.
Justinmd
10-05-2008, 17:55
In addition to the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR (not out yet), there is the Robinson Arms XCR, Armalite AR18, Sig 556 and probably a couple others I forget. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Oh and the HK 416 if you're rich, and the FN SCAR light which is also not out yet.
So there's options.
J
Justinmd
10-08-2008, 20:30
You're link requires site registration. Can you sum it up?
I probably should state that I work "by/with/through" one of the companies of those I mentioned.
In addition to the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR (not out yet), there is the Robinson Arms XCR, Armalite AR18, Sig 556 and probably a couple others I forget. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Oh and the HK 416 if you're rich, and the FN SCAR light which is also not out yet.
So there's options.
J
Daewoo has a gas piston AR too. I have a AR180 and a Daewoo. I think your sentence, "Each has their advantages and disadvantages" best sums it up IMHO.
ReconRover
10-17-2008, 01:43
Howdy!
Well my opinion on the POF, is that it's a POS. During a Bwater carbine course, two guys had em...constant feeding issues, and one of them wouldn't group at 100 meters. The instructors said that other students that came in with them had constant issues.....and of course at that time (06)...the tech guy..."hey dude" in his best calif surfer accent.
I actually contacted them about purchasing their Gen 2 upper, and honest to God, the rep told me that if you are going to use the rifle for overseas, or mil duty, don't buy it...too many issues.
Ares makes a retrofit kit...also a POS. Friend had one, and the bolt key sheared off after only two FA mag dumps.
I had a Robinson XCR...and was THOROUGHLY dissapointed. Between feeding issues, the selector falling off, the stock bolt backing out, the barrel removal bolt backing out...,etc, etc. They've had a bolt recall, and a firing pin recall. No dust cover, etc.
Best I have used is an LWRC (Leightner Weise) 10.5" upper. You can dump 10 mags FA, and the bolt is still cool. The piston only needs to be cleaned every 1500 or so rounds. High quality system. Have used three varients, and I'm thoroughly impressed. Yeah it costs more...but ask a team guy what he wants...that's your answer.
Howdy!..............
Best I have used is an LWRC (Leightner Weise) 10.5" upper. You can dump 10 mags FA, and the bolt is still cool. The piston only needs to be cleaned every 1500 or so rounds. High quality system. Have used three varients, and I'm thoroughly impressed. Yeah it costs more...but ask a team guy what he wants...that's your answer.
Glad to hear you like the LWRC. FWIW it is no longer called Leitner-Wise. It is now known as Land Warfare Resource Corporation International. It is under MATECH now.
I am a big fan. I own 3 separate uppers. Can't say enough good things about them.
Of course I'm kinda partial ;)
ReconRover
10-17-2008, 13:27
Glad to see other like their kit...didn't know about the rename of the biz. Being a gun junkie, I've learned the hard way with pistols/shotguns/distance rifles...buy quality with a good reputation the first time, or you pay for your mistake again, and again. Have trimmed down the safe to higher quality items, instead of a larger number of "so-so's".
I think it's interesting that the Army has put out an RFP of sorts for a new carbine...with no limitations on caliber, or design, very interesting move. I think the smart way to go would be to replace the standard M4 uppers with Land Warfare uppers....much cheaper, proven design, with minimal training required to adopt the new system. Gas piston is the way to go, gas inpingment systems are just old dirty news.
Like the Sig design...but one PSD company we've worked with quite a bit had nothing but issues...broken bolt handles, broken guide rods, and broken springs....so yeah, I'll have to pass on those for now.
72_Wilderness
10-17-2008, 22:05
Has anyone here tested the ACR designed by Magpul?
Thoughts on the company in general? I read the report NDD gave on their standard 30 round magazines. Has the same quality and craftsmanship carried over to this project?
What's the general opinion of the things they changed when you compare it to a generic M4?
72W
19D-CavScout
10-18-2008, 05:53
I thought that LWC had a piston driven carbine as well? Also, isn't the Olympic Arms OA93 series a piston job, or am I reading into it from the over sized gas assembly?
Last trip to the vacation spot I carried a HK 416 with 101/2 inch barrel. I was completely sold on the weapon hands down over a M4. The only real issue I had with the weapon was to clean the piston I had to remove to EO Tech because I like it a little forward of the hand guard. We talked to the Hk rep that dealt with the client and he said we could by these if we would like (416- $7000 and 417- $15000). I told him that I would not pay this for a weapon unless it hovered over me and shot all the bad guys in front of me. I have heard HK is releasing or has released the 415 going for about $1700. Has anyone else heard this rumor? I would be very interested to find out.
allester666
02-28-2009, 11:57
Supposedly HK will be releasing the MR556 later this year. It is their civi version of the HK416. The rifle is setup so that the upper cannot be be put on a typical ar lower, and the HK lower wont go on a typical AR upper. HK moved the rear takedown pin 6mm forward, this is supposedly due to a german export law.
http://hk-usa.com/rifles_mr556_general.html
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath with that one, and no doubt it will be very expensive.
I own a POF, had some teething issues (had to get a new barrel installed under warrenty) but if you get a rifle from them with their new barrels it will run all day. LWRC rifles certainly hold their own, and are known to function well. My buddy just bought a LWRC m6A2 16' barrel, its slimmer and slightly lighter than my 16' POF and looks very nice. We are going shooting today, but I doubt I will have anything to say but "awesome".
Good luck I hope you are able to make your purchase with minimal pain, but I have a feeling its gonna cost quite a bit. One friend of mine payed $1900 yesterday for a LWRC upper, and another paid about $ 2800 for an entire rifle with flip up iron sights. I put my rifle together last year for $1500 and that was with an ACE SOCOM buttstock, 2 stage national match trigger, Magpul pistol grip and a lower of my choosing (MEGA, great finish).
Justinmd
03-01-2009, 14:24
I just took my brother and a buddy out for some rifle comparisons. We shot an AR with the Adams Arms piston conversion, a LWRC complete gun, a Sig 556, and the Massoud .308.
For the small guns, the Sig 556 was hands down the favorite, in spite of the extra weight. It was very smooth and soft recoiling, the action is slick, it's just a nice piece. My brother is getting a 556 now instead of a LWRC.
They all liked the ergonomics of the Massoud better, (charging handle, bolt release, etc.) Of course that's the same ergonomics as the ACR, except the charging handle which is forward. The ACR is a great rifle, I think people will be very pleased with the final version.
J
para has a new rifle out to, uses delayed gas impingment. have no idea how good its going to be. just saw an ad for it yesterday.
6.8SPC_DUMP
03-04-2009, 02:46
Any opinions on the LMT CQB MRP Piston?
http://www.lewismachine.net/store.php?cid=11&session=733c1667787d20f037503e3687111bc8
They accept 12" and 16" barrels just like the direct injection MRP.
If you already have an MRP platform you can upgrade to a piston system on it.
I'm hoping they will offer it in 6.8spc in the future ( the LMT rep. said they might ).
I am leaning towards the LWRC M6A2 in 6.8 now. (changed my mind: going with nice DI's and extra barrels, BCGs)
http://www.lwrifles.com/Products/M6A2/tabid/70/Default.aspx
The LWRC M6A4 seems to be their best choice for full auto.
http://www.lwrifles.com/Products/M6A4/tabid/84/Default.aspx
Thanks :munchin
allester666
03-04-2009, 13:47
I wanted to do a quick follow up on the shooting experience with my friends LWRC M6A2.
1) Fit and finish of the rifle was superb, no visible machining marks inside and out. The internals appear very well made.
2.) Shooting- Recoil is a bit snappier than I am accustomed to. I would get a hydraulic buffer if I owned one of these rifles. We were shooting the provided Troy BUIS on an indoor range, so accuracy results will have to come later. My POF rifle is definitly softer in the recoil department. The rifle functioned well despite my friend feeding it cheap russian BAER ammo, and it ate the federal loads I gave him as well.
Overall really nice rifle. Be prepared to cough up 2.5k for one if you want it!
Update on my POF 16' model 415
**POF OWNERS READ THIS**
Be aware that alot of POF owners are having a allen nut in the back end of the piston tube work it's way loose and fall out. I recommend taking out the gas system components, taking off your predator rail and taking this nut out. From there, you should degrease it and reinstall with blue loctite. Easy fix, but it happened to me. I have put approx. 3K rounds through my upper so far.
Philkilla
10-24-2009, 21:31
A little late but I thought I would chime in as well.
I bought an LWRC M6A2 a few months ago, unfortunately I've only put about 200 rounds through (nothing to intense) and the operation is near stellar to say the least.
I can't think of enough things I love about it.
The only downside is the thumb-screws that hold the front hand rail (above the piston assembly) will work themselves loose if they are only finger-tight.
I added a little torque and everything is superb.
If you try one, you'll want one. End of story.
LongWire
10-24-2009, 22:08
Anyone familier with a company by the name of Ferfrans? They have a variant that I've seen, but am not familiar with their stuff.
Anyone familier with a company by the name of .....
Here is another shop with a piston upper. This one has a decent price!!
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113&products_id=323
I have read about them in AR15 and they have a good rep.. In fact I am in the process of purchasing my 1st EBR and thinking I'll get Spikes to do the lower..
Their shop is up state so I can drive up and skip s&h and FFL transfer fees..
Besides the local access,, They will do some custom acid etching...
Can you read the selector switch markings??
That is some sweet etching. Way better than what we got from DPMS for our commemorative rifles.
Spikes is extremely good. I'm getting a 22 upper from them and it is top notch. Especially if you want a ar in 22 i suggest going with spikes.