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mffjm8509
06-01-2004, 10:39
I had the distinct privlige of being invited to run in the Ft Carson Post run today. Similar to many such events I've participated in in both the 82nd adn 101st.....but with one clear difference....

I couldnt believe thenumber of soldiers stopping, sitting on the side of the road......people who appeared to be generally in good health, but lacked the fortitude to complete a 3.5 mile run....

It does give one perspective on how good we accually have it in SF....

mp

The Reaper
06-01-2004, 10:49
Quitters.

Their minds told them to give up before their bodies were spent.

I remember the way the 82nd used to police up stragglers, and it was not pleasant to drop out.

TR

Murphy's Law
06-01-2004, 11:19
dam, i have never once quit on a run and at least once missed out on "fun" activities because i felt like seeing how far i could go in another 15 minutes. Watching a friend pass me is not an option.

mffjm8509
06-01-2004, 11:52
I hate to say this, but the majority of the "fallouts" were ladies......which did provide both entertainment (heckling) and some eye candy from time to time.....

We had the oportunity of running trail, behind every other unit on post, so as the lesser kind gave up they had a long line of alpha males to pass........needless to say, neither male, nor female were cut any slack in this mornings activites......

mp

AmericanPride
06-01-2004, 13:05
The other morning we were doing a nice brisk "nature walk" for PT and came across a couple of what appeared to be company size runs. The sad thing was we noticed we were passing the straggling "runners" that had fallen out of to the rear of their formation. A sad sad sight.

Razor
06-01-2004, 14:00
Funny thing about running here at altitude for me was I had my best 2-mile time in my career 30 days after showing up.

mffjm, now you know why you guys had to run trail; if you'd been up front setting pace, the majority of the post would've been sitting on the side of the road.

Murphy's Law
06-01-2004, 16:01
good point Razor.

mffjm8509
06-01-2004, 16:15
Razor,

Youre right, I doubt the CG would have like to hear us right behind him. What was funny was that as the units dropped off at their individual start points, the BC kept increasing his pace and the heckling got louder....

partly because of the guidon bearer (MSG Jim Thompson) whom I'm sure you remember........

MOst of the boys were pissed that they had to participate, but like I said earlier, it sure does make you appreciate being in SF

mp

Guy
06-01-2004, 17:31
When I was attending the 18D course at Ft. Sam, they would have these post runs. At every half-mile or so, there would be a water point where you could stop and get a drink of water.

Either I'm getting old or maybe just stupid.

It has never crossed my mind to stop and have a drink of water while running in a PT formation.

NousDefionsDoc
06-01-2004, 18:47
LOL - Guy, you crack me up.

In the 82nd, we used to run with telephone pole sized logs.

"Squad Leader - go get me a pole!"

"Airborne First Sergeant!"

Good fun runs at Ft. Sam. 10k with an obstacle course at the end. The run downtown (Alamo?) I LOVE running through leg formations!

mffjm8509
06-01-2004, 20:13
Ah the good ole days......in the 82nd

before you had to wear a kevlar east of Grueber rd.......

I remember when doing at least one battalion and another brigade run in division when strippers were laid on to dance at the turnaround point.........

When the BC would pull a beer truck into the BN area on a friday afternoon to reward the troops for a job well done.....

Ending runs at the bear pit down by divarty for a well deserved dip.....one company vs. another.........

not the same army I saw on the street today thats for sure!

mp

Razor
06-01-2004, 20:51
I remember a 5 miler we did in OBC that was sponsored by Miller. Eat light the night before, skip breakfast, run your ass off in the GA heat, cross the finish line at Doughboy and then start pounding. :D 'Course, that was when they still had strippers at the Bunker (downstairs at the O-Club). Damn it, I'm too young to remember the 'good old days'!

Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-02-2004, 07:30
Originally posted by Razor
I remember a 5 miler we did in OBC

I can sort of remember those also, but my OBC was in the winter of 65 so the heat never really had any effect then. However pay back became a 12 letter word in the summer during airborne school in GA. I know, you all are going to tell me that those little airborne shuffles were a piece of cake and I am going to agree with you but I was a smart ass 2lt that had the audacity to go to ranger school first and show up at jump school wearing a ranger tab. Now I know Razor doesn't really care for short people but I really consider myself to not be short but just sort of wound up tight. Being wound up tight I caught all sorts of crap and was referred to as "little ranger". There were about 20 of us that had come over directly from ranger school and we decided one day to pay back the black hats and organized a "coup". We grabbed them and threw them in the showers that they so fondly had us wander thru before we did PLFs in the sawdust pits. Now I will agree doing a few laps around the track was nothing but my little group of upstarts were sent to do one lap on all fours around the track to allow us to reflect on the animals we had become. Don't know how far we had gone before Colonel Welch interceded, sort of chewed us out for our "uprising" and then congratulated us for our team work. We were ordered to appear at the O'club after training for a beer on him. The black hats sort of let up on us after that and at graduation the black hat I had ushered into the shower sought me out and pinned my wings on. He stood in front of me and said, damn sir looks like you have grown from "a little ranger" into an "airborne ranger". Didn't take me long, however, to find out that a 2lt, no matter how tall he was, still had a lot of growing to do.

Jack Moroney:D

Razor
06-02-2004, 08:51
Alas, by the time I got to Abn School the PT standards had been thoroughly feminized. However, I have no doubt that it wasn't that way when you guys went through.

Hey, how did I get tagged as a midget-hater? I love the little people! :D

mffjm8509
06-02-2004, 18:36
Originally posted by Razor
Alas, by the time I got to Abn School the PT standards had been thoroughly feminized. However, I have no doubt that it wasn't that way when you guys went through.

Hey, how did I get tagged as a midget-hater? I love the little people! :D

Now, PT at Airborne School was not hard by any standard when I attended (1986), but I do remember a seperate formation for women. Med did thier PT and the women did it in a seperate formation, and on one of the longer runs, we lapped them.....

mp

The Reaper
06-02-2004, 18:51
Originally posted by mffjm8509
Now, PT at Airborne School was not hard by any standard when I attended (1986), but I do remember a seperate formation for women. Med did thier PT and the women did it in a seperate formation, and on one of the longer runs, we lapped them.....

mp

Not the oldest one on here by any stretch of the imagination, I went through in 1980, we jumped C-123s.

Female Black Hats ran wherever they wanted, the instructors broke the students down into fast and slow groups, the female students ALL went into the slow group.

Men had to do pull-ups and push-ups, women did bent arm hangs and female push-ups, knees on the ground. The females PTed in a separate group, usually away from us.

I guess they must have gotten a parachute that was easier to pull a two-riser slip, cause they sure failed to meet the standards as they were explained to us.

Longest formation run I ever did was over 8 miles back in 1978, we ran from Sicily DZ back to the far end of the Division Area. Lots of hills, and accordion effect.

TR

NousDefionsDoc
06-02-2004, 19:18
Originally posted by mffjm8509
Now, PT at Airborne School was not hard by any standard when I attended (1986), but I do remember a seperate formation for women. Med did thier PT and the women did it in a seperate formation, and on one of the longer runs, we lapped them.....

mp

Roger, same for us in '80. Girls and Cadets ran in one formation, everybody else in another. Lapped several times.

Sigi
06-02-2004, 23:24
Originally posted by The Reaper
Quitters.

Their minds told them to give up before their bodies were spent.

I remember the way the 82nd used to police up stragglers, and it was not pleasant to drop out.

TR
I am hearing/reading that the 82nd no longer is the ball busting unit it once was. Being a civilian who should keep his mouth shut since I know little about the 82nd, I have to ask: have standards changed inre: enlisting in the 82nd.

Have the standards of the 82nd been compromised?

(I am gonna regret asking this question.)

18C4V
06-02-2004, 23:25
I went to BAC in 1990. I remember a separate formation for females but I can't remember about the cadets.

I say Air-Assault is a lot harder as least it was in 7th I.D. (L). Females had to do the same ruck and runs as males. I can't remember how many females started, but only one finished and got her wings in my class.

Razor
06-03-2004, 08:26
I went to BAC in June of '90, and there were separate female running groups. Since I went as a cadet, I can say with confidence that we were not our own formation, nor were we put with the females. I was actually let down by the PT, and a buddy and I did our own PT after duty hours. In fact, we got yelled at by a Black Hat one evening because we were running on the track that circles the towers 'without supervision'.

Captain Caveman
06-14-2004, 22:44
Can confirm what Razor said. BAC in June 1988 for me. Went as a cadet. Males in one formation, females in another. We never lapped them though. They always took the short cut at the 34 ft. towers.

CommoGeek
06-15-2004, 06:34
BAC, Sep. 1993, females and males were in one PT formation. Females did regular push ups (not as many as us, but they weren't on their knees), but they did do a different pull up: one with their legs on the ground about 3 feet in front of them. Their bar was about 3 feet off of the ground.

The runs were pathetic: 9 min. per mile pace (not that I snuck a watch or anything.....).

So, somewhere between 90 and 93 a change occurred.

SOCMarine
06-15-2004, 10:18
March of 2003 All req's were the same. Roster Number 52 was the only female that made it.

Ryno out

AngelsSix
06-15-2004, 12:55
How pathetic. Listening to these stories about the separation of females and "slow" groups. Absolute B.S.!! I have seen old Warriors with more scars running laps around the youngsters more than once in PR. When I went out to tech school (MP school) in TX the instructors had quite a few females that were truly pathetic. They were forever dropping back and getting in the vans. I still don't understand why they let these women stay in. How usefull is someone who can't even do a three mile run??

DanUCSB
06-15-2004, 13:05
It is kind of sad. I read a couple of other Army sites, and one of the threads that constantly picks back up is the eternal "I have a soldier who fails tape every time, but he/she is a good soldier and passes his PT test... how can I cheat the system to keep him/her?" To which, invariably, a hundred people respond saying things like, "if he gets a 213 on his PT test, he meets the standard, and that's all that matters," "some people just aren't built to be skinny," and my favorite, "he's so good at his job... it's not fair to chapter him just because he's overweight."

Last I saw, we were overmanned and exceeding recruiting goals. Why the fuck is this still happening?

mffjm8509
06-15-2004, 17:18
Originally posted by DanUCSB
" To which, invariably, a hundred people respond saying things like, "if he gets a 213 on his PT test, he meets the standard, and that's all that matters," "some people just aren't built to be skinny," and my favorite,


Hell, if one of my guys got 213 on his PT test he'd be gone......skinny, fat, short, tall........GONE

mp

Team Sergeant
06-15-2004, 18:25
If one of my guys got a 213 on a PT test I’d hand him my .45 with one round and tell him to “Do the right thing.â€

I do not even desire to discuss this topic. I've never been in a unit that would allow such a disgrace wear the uniform.

TS

Guy
06-15-2004, 18:42
If the minimum wasn't good enough then they wouldn't have them. :rolleyes: Believe me...I've heard that before.:o

Under LTC Toney, if you scored a 213 on a PT test...your ass was fired! Especially if you were an officer.

I've scored a whole lot higher coming back from Hays street drunk of my ass and I even threw up on the two mile run.

I wouldn't do it today though!:D

Captain Caveman
06-16-2004, 20:16
I ran into a company commander at Ft. Jackson last year that was overweight and failed the tape test because he had a skinny neck. He was flagged and couseled by his battalion commander.

Strange thing is, he consistently scored 300 on his APFT and qualified for Ft. Jackson's team at the Army 10 miler in DC a month after I met him.

That ht/wt and tape test is not really indicative of anything. He didn't look fat in uniform either.

AngelsSix
06-17-2004, 09:23
CC: I agree that the tape test is b.s. I have seen plenty of people fail it that could out do me any day of the week (I am a scrawney little shit). But if the military is truly concerned with how people perform, they should be getting true body- fat measurements and assess how the soldiers actually look in their uniforms as well as whether they meet the fitness standards. There are alcoholic smokers out there that run two miles faster than I do, but after they run those two miles they are DONE.
I am SOOOO tired of hearing "he's a good soldier, sailor, airman.....so even if he looks like a bag of shit in his uniform and can't run two miles nonstop we need to keep him". I can afford to lose someone who cannot run to my posistion to help me when we are getting attacked because I don't want anyone around who can't do more than his job.

ThinAir
06-19-2004, 15:20
I can concur with SOCMarine. BAC '02, everyone was together. PT wouldn't have been classified as difficult, I did my own little workouts over on the mile track at night. I was more worried about catching hell as a cadet than PT.






I do remember one female captain dragging ass on the 5 mile run, and getting pissed when Cadet Thin Air and a few privates tried to help her out.

Jgood
07-13-2004, 15:47
I went in 96 again same standards ,but we had only 2 females makes it and a 50+ year old Marine 1st Sgt. they would only make you do 10 reps of any exercise for punishment at a time, coming straight from basic it was pretty much a joke. But they would get even in the saw dust pits ;)