Deployment of non qualed soldiers

[Herdsman]

Was down at Ft. Stewart for the past two weeks. While down there I talked with some of the admin bubbas at Brigade trying to find out if there are any E-5 11B deployment slots to the sandbox. During the running around that placing that inquiry required a couple of people overheard a friend of mine and myself discussing getting out shit together and apply to the 20th group and selection.

Getting to my point and the question, one supposedly knowledgeable person said that the 19th and 20th groups are deploying unqualified personel to the sandbox. I couldn't imagine why this would be but when it comes to SF, I don't know so I don't argue. My buddy and I swung by the SF recruters office twice while at Stewart to try and find if there was any truth in what was told to us, but didn't find anyone home.

Can anyone confirm or dispell this comment?

Thanks.

[CommoGeek]

By "unqualed" do you mean non-18 series guys in an 18 series slot or guys with an MOS going in slots that they are not MOSQ for?

Either way, it has happened. Doing time on an ODA in the Box doesn't rate an SF tab (I'm sure you aren't looking for this, I just thought I'd add it to the discussion). How often does it happen? I don't know, but the ones that did go (that I know of) were well connected politically.

I THINK that to get a non-MOSQ pax from the Guard to deploy you need a waiver signed by the MOB Staton CDR and the first O-6 in the Chain. Maybe Reaper or someone could shed some light on that.

[SOCMarine]

I can only speak for my Company in 20th Group but was also told by friends in another Company who said the same, Non-Qual's went but not in a 18 series slot. The best mission they were able to assist on was convoy security.

All of us in my unit that were mobilized for Enduring Freedom were given the choice of Afghanistan or the Q course. Nearly all of us went to the course.

Even if it takes you 2 yrs to get through the course and onto an ODA, the problems faced and the need for Special Forces troops is not going to change in the near future.

Ryno out

[The Reaper]

Welcome aboard, Ryno!

TR

[SOCMarine]

Thank you. Allways willing to serve sir.

Ryno out.

[D9 (RIP)]

Originally posted by Herdsman
Getting to my point and the question, one supposedly knowledgeable person said that the 19th and 20th groups are deploying unqualified personel to the sandbox.

According to our training & readiness NCOs (in a 20th Gp unit), this happened in the past but will not be happening in the future. The non-18 series qualified guys who went last time from my company were with the B-team helping out in admin roles. We have been told that we are going to SFAS/SFQC first, without exception.

HTH

[Herdsman]

Thanks ya'll. I was think that a support roll is what the case might have been. Glad I've got the good word from a headwater source.

Now, back to my regularly scheduled lurking.

[18C4V]

Originally posted by D9
According to our training & readiness NCOs (in a 20th Gp unit), this happened in the past but will not be happening in the future. The non-18 series qualified guys who went last time from my company were with the B-team helping out in admin roles. We have been told that we are going to SFAS/SFQC first, without exception.

HTH

It all depends on your company and bn. For example during our rotation, our company sent all the non quals to SFAS/SFQC. Bn did both and sent guys with us to A-stan to fill a variety of roles.

Some of the guys were non mos Q working in support MOS's who had no intention of going SF. For example, some of the best vehicle mechanics in the FOB were non mos Q. Just guys who worked in the civilian market as mechanics and were shit hot on non U.S. and US vehicles.

Other non mos q guys were assigned to the FOB and did BDOC, convoy and other shit details while waiting for orders for SFAS and SFQC.

The only non mos Q guys working at our firebase were the mechanics who litteraly kept that place working.

[rwt_bkk]

Interesting about the Non-SF filling SF slots. Historically it has happened from the beginning. Actually in the beginning there were no qualified people....

Several times in SF history there has been an period of rapid expansion after a long period of dormacy. During those times it was look around and find the best guys and draft them into slots. I knew quite a few guys that came into SF through the "back door". One of them won the MOH, some turned out to be some of the best recon men we had in SOG. After all it isn't really all about the Q course it is about the man, the Q course just gets everyone on to the same page and hopefully prepares him for what is to come. Another fact of life is that some assholes that never shoud be on the teams will always get "qualified", hopefully they get sidelined where they can't hurt anyone. BUT they Usually end up in charge and then try to tell you how to do it.

I always said the most important qualification for SF was the initial written test. That told you about the mind. What they wanted was "the mind" and then it was get the body in shape to deliver the mind to the target. I always figured what they really wanted was a "near criminal" mind that would follow orders....

I went through Phase I with an old E-8 that came in direct in the very early days of SF. Then someone discoved after 10 years in Forces he wasn't SF qualified. So off to the Q course. That old man (looking back his wasn't old at all) showed all of us hot shot kids what it was all about. Made it look easy while we were sweating our balls off...

Now I hear that they are taking direct enlistments for SF again. When I came in you could enlist direct for SF. Everyone was talking about how bad that was. But when I looked around the recon teams I saw only a few old timers and a whole lot of Sp4/E5 guys like myself. Straight into the army, into SF and straight into SOG recon. (we didn't know any better..... honest). I think it would have been great to have the experience of time somewhere else in the Army. BUT it would have never prepared us for what we were doing at the time.

[QRQ 30]

What Robert says is so true. Don't get all wrapped up in "qualification". When the time comes it will bee the man behind the gun and not the paper behind the man that counts.

I personally knew two "Legs" who were on RTs in FOB-2. One was a fine 1-0. The A-Teams in Germany were augmented by ASA personnel while on operations. They were more than worth theit weight. There may be some SIGINT personnel lurking on this board as well as others who can attest to the worth of the "unqualified" SIGINT guys.

Hopefully things have changed (for some reason I doubt it) but there were more than a few "Paper Flashes" running around in my day and filling slots.

[Hognose (RIP)]

Policy of the 1/20 and 20 in general has been, when mobilized, to send the NQP from the mob station direct to Bragg to resume their place in the pipeline: SFAS, SOPC-I or -II, SFQC.

There are limited exceptions. For instance, we had an ODB that used one ex-base station chief and one ham operator instead of tabbed communicators. It worked.

Each exception required not only the letter of exception mentioned above, but also a lot of convincing at each level of the chain of command.

This was the policy of our group and battalion commanders; since then, there are new men in place, but I expect the policy will stay the same. It worked out pretty well.

For those that worry about the war ending before they finish SFQC... don't.

-nose

[TerribleTobyt]

A non-SFer ran Recon with Ralph Rodd on RT Wyoming. Name of Joe Paris. Helluva great guy and a helluva WARRIOR.

As has been said previously, don't get wrapped around the axle about "quals".

I'd take Joe Paris any day over some of the "quals" I've run into over the years.

Later.

Toby
1-2, RT California