Russia to send nuclear warship to Caribbean

[Surf n Turf]

Russian ships in the Caribbean – sounds like we are entering a “mini-coldwar” – except this time we don’t have the money to play :mad:
SnT


MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia said on Monday it would send a heavily-armed nuclear-powered cruiser to the Caribbean for a joint naval exercise with Venezuela, its first major maneuvers on the United States' doorstep since the Cold War.
Russian officials denied the mission was linked to a naval standoff with U.S warships in the Black Sea, but it will take place at a time of high tension between Washington and Moscow over the conflict in Georgia.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSL87549220080908?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

[Pete]

A little thumbing of the nose at us from the Dem's southern Golden Boy.

[SF_BHT]

This may be the thing that Chavez said he was going to do with Putin.....

[Kyobanim]

This may be the thing that Chavez said he was going to do with Putin.....

Giving each other bjs in the Caribbean? That should be romantic for those 2 blow hards.

Did I just say that?

[jatx]

Russian ships in the Caribbean – sounds like we are entering a “mini-coldwar” – except this time we don’t have the money to play :mad:
SnT

Huh? Since when is the Russian Navy a credible threat to us?

I've heard a lot of loose talk about "Cold War redux" lately, but this is like playing "keep up with the Joneses" when the Joneses live in tar paper shacks.

Let them rattle their sabres if it helps their wounded pride and keeps energy prices down for our Allies. Russian conventional forces are no threat to us. The Georgian debacle demonstrated the real limits of their ability to project force. That was the real lesson if you were watching closely. Everyone on this board knows that those armor and troop columns wouldn't have lasted a day against the US military.

Which leaves nuclear weapons as their only real tool. If Russia were backed into a corner over something truly important, the inability to escalate using conventional forces could make this worrisome. IMHO, though, this is more about face-saving and the move is tailored primarily for an internal audience.

[SF_BHT]

Mini Cold war here we go in our back yard.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080908/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_russia

By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 30 minutes ago

CARACAS, Venezuela - Russia's plan to deploy ships and warplanes to the Caribbean for joint military exercises with Venezuela is allowing President Hugo Chavez to capitalize on tensions between Moscow and the U.S. and showcase a growing military alliance.

Russia announced on Monday that it will send a naval squadron and long-range patrol planes for the exercises later this year — a move that appeared retaliatory after the U.S. sent warships to deliver aid to Georgia following its conflict with Russia.

The deployment is expected to be the largest Russian naval maneuvers in the Caribbean — and perhaps the Western Hemisphere — since the Cold War.

Chavez considers the U.S. a defense threat, and his welcoming of the Russian navy contrasted with his sharp criticism of the recent reactivation of the U.S. Navy's Fourth Fleet for the Caribbean and Latin America. He ridiculed possible U.S. concerns about the Russian deployment on Sunday, saying: "Go ahead and squeal, Yankees."

"This is vintage Chavez. He rarely misses an opportunity to needle and provoke Washington," said Michael Shifter, an analyst at the Washington-based think tank Inter-American Dialogue. "He is taking advantage of the growing chill in U.S.-Russia relations, especially over the situation in Georgia, to poke his finger in (President) Bush's eye. There is nothing he relishes more."

Chavez says the U.S. Fourth Fleet — which was dissolved after World War II — poses a threat to the region. U.S. officials say the fleet will help maintain security while performing humanitarian missions and counter-drug operations.

Anna Gilmour, an analyst at Jane's Intelligence Review, said she believes the exercises will be primarily for the benefit of Venezuela, which has been drawing closer to Russia and buying weapons from Kalashnikov assault rifles to Sukhoi fighter jets. She said the maneuvers also appear to be a response to the relaunch of the U.S. Fourth Fleet.

"By allowing Russian vessels to dock at Venezuelan ports, Chavez is sending the message that the U.S. is not the only major power active in the Caribbean," Gilmour said.

The U.S. government, however, appeared unconcerned.

U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack poked fun at Russia's navy, saying if Russia really intends to send ships to the Caribbean, "then they found a few ships that can make it that far."

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko insisted that Russia's decision to send a naval squadron and planes to Venezuela was made before Russia's war with Georgia and is unrelated to the conflict.

But last week, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned that Russia would mount an unspecified response to recent U.S. aid shipments to Georgia using Navy vessels on the Black Sea.

Shifter said it's clear Russia in "unhappy about the U.S.'s increasing presence in the Black Sea" and "as part of its resurgent nationalism, Russia wants to flex its muscles and remind Washington that it too has important alliances in the U.S. backyard."

[Surf n Turf]

Huh? Since when is the Russian Navy a credible threat to us?

I've heard a lot of loose talk about "Cold War redux" lately, but this is like playing "keep up with the Joneses" when the Joneses live in tar paper shacks.


Jatx,
I believe you are correct that the Russian Navy is not a credible threat.
However, the “cold War” was as much about “spheres of influence” as it was about Military might. Within Central Asia, We (America) have increased our sphere of influence with the GWOT. We have bases, and troops, in areas that were (not so long ago) firmly within the Russian / Soviet sphere. There appears to be much consternation within the Russian hierarchy (both Civilian / Military) that blame Putin, for ignoring US deployments, "losing" Central Asia” and succumbing to a new “American imperialism” in Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, etc.
Recently, Duma speaker Gennady Seleznyov, warned that "Russia will not endorse the emergence of permanent US military bases in Central Asia.", but it may be a bit to late, as the latest troubles in Georgia has shown. Remember, Russia wants into the WTO, and will establish some sort of peace efforts.
There is also the matter of Oil, and the Caspian Sea areas. Gazprom, the Russian state natural gas Giant, and Rosneft, Russia's major state oil firm (plus a series of “ventures” with BP, LukOil, etc. contribute some 65%+ of the Russian state revenues. The majority of Central Asia’s oil / gas is exported thru Russian State Pipelines. Some Regional Leaders in Central Asia are starting to play Russia and America off against each other, and the Russian Military isn’t happy. Many, in the Senior Ranks are former “cold warriors”, who not only do not trust the American, but have visions of Past glories of the Soviet Empire.
So, Russia is starting to “show the flag” in our spheres of influence, as sort of a finger in the eye approach. Cuba and Venezuela are the initial points of Military diplomacy, and there will probably be others within the Americas – as sort of a not so subtle notice that two can play the game in an orchestrated effort to get us to “play nice”.
The “free radical” in this dance is of course the GWOT. This may in fact bring the Russian / American interests into harmony. It may also cause problems, If Russia (or elements in the leadership) start to assist the Islamists. Even though Russia is assisting Iran, although (I suspect) in a much more limited manner than in our headlines. Pakistan is becoming very unstable, and we (America) are not being as circumspect as we should be with our incursions into their sovereign territory. India is fearful of an unstable Pakistan, and are arming to the teeth. The Saudi’s keep stirring the pot, and the EU is terrified of Russia turning off the energy valve.
Sorry for running on so long – but yes, we are talking about a mini “cold war” – that hopefully remains about influence, and not about any Arms Race.

SnT

[SF_BHT]

This is getting a lot of air time down here in SA. Chavez is making speeches and a lot of video clips showing what they want to do on the exercise..... Lots of saber rattling for Chavez but this is normal......

[Red Flag 1]

Wonder if we could get them to start shelling the prison @ GITMO.

Get the guards out then let it fly!:cool:

RF 1

[Slantwire]

Chavez is making speeches and a lot of video clips showing what they want to do on the exercise.....

Eh. It's not like there won't be a fistful of USN subs trawling along listening closely anyway.

It'd be a damn shame if one of Chavez's tin cans had a Mk-48 accident.... but mostly a shame that it'd boost his image as "worthy of attention."

[JJ_BPK]

Giving each other bjs in the Caribbean? That should be romantic for those 2 blow hards. Did I just say that?

Speaking of alternative source, air-actuated, manualy applied, LIP-O-suctions,,

I'll be glad to send my little friend Ike to the party,, or one of his sisters/brothers,, as required???

Josephine, Kyle, Laura, Marco, Nana, or OMAR

:D:D:D

[Richard]

Guys,

Russia has become a major supplier of arms to Venezuela since around 2001. The two countries signed a series of deals worth a reported $3 billion or so in 2006, including fighter aircraft, transport and attack helicopters, and assault rifles, according to Jane's.

According to Russian news reports, the Russian flotilla will include the heavy nuclear-propelled missile cruiser Pyotr Veliki (Peter thr Great) and the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Chabanenko.

Petr Velikiy

The much-delayed Petr Velikiy, which arrived in the Northern Fleet in November 1996 for acceptance trials, was finally commissioned on 18 April 1998, but in the Northern Fleet rather than in the originally planned Pacific Fleet. However, she was subsequently laid up at Severomorsk awaiting completion and repairs.

On 23 March 2004 Russia's navy chief reportedly said that the nuclear-powered Peter the Great missile cruiser, was in such dire condition that it could "explode at any moment" - only to backtrack on his statement a few hours later. Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov said the massive cruiser had been badly maintained and could "explode any moment", adding that "it's especially dangerous because it has a nuclear reactor". Just three hours later, however, Kuroyedov retracted his ominous statement, saying he had been misunderstood by the media. "There is no threat whatsoever to the ship's nuclear safety," he said in a statement. "The ship's nuclear safety is fully guaranteed in line with existing norms." He added that some flaws in maintaining the cruiser's living quarters would be fixed within three weeks, after which the ship would become fully combat-ready.
The Petr Veliki cruiser docked for repair at Roslyakovo starting on 19 April 2004. The ship repairers will clean and paint the submarine part of the ship, repair the armature and examine the steering system. The floating dock PD-50, where the Admiral Kuznetsov had been repaired, was prepared for the flagship of the navy. As of July 2004 the flagship of the Northern Fleet, the Pyotr Veliky, heavy nuclear guided-missile cruiser, also fresh from repair, was carrying out missions so as to be in what is called "first-line" readiness in the second half of August 2004.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/1144.htm

For those who need lots of stats:
http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?ZVD-9017

Venezuela to host Russia navy exercise near US Coast
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c3_1220785880

Several Russian ships and 1,000 soldiers will take part in joint naval manoeuvres with Venezuela in the Caribbean Sea later this year, exercises likely to increase diplomatic tensions with Washington, a pro-government newspaper reported on Saturday.

Quoting Venezuela's naval intelligence director, Salbarore Cammarata, the newspaper Vea said four Russian boats would visit Venezuelan waters from More..November 10 to 14.

Plans for the naval operations come at a time of heightened diplomatic tension and Cold War-style rhetoric between Moscow and the United States over the recent war in Georgia and plans for a U.S. missile defence system in the Czech Republic and Poland.

Cammarata said it would be the first time Russia's navy carried out such exercises in Latin America. He said the Venezuelan air force would also take part.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, an outspoken critic of Washington, has said in recent weeks that Russian ships and planes are welcome to visit the South American country.

"If the Russian long-distance planes that fly around the world need to land at some Venezuelan landing strip, they are welcome, we have no problems," he said on his weekly television show last week.

Chavez, who buys billions of dollars of weapons from Russia, has criticized this year's reactivation of the U.S. Navy's Fourth Fleet, which will patrol Latin America for the first time in over 50 years.

The socialist Chavez says he fears the United States will invade oil-rich Venezuela and he supports Russia's growing geopolitical presence as a counterbalance to U.S. power.

Chavez has bought fighter jets and submarines from Russia to retool Venezuela's aging weapons and says he is also interested in a missile defence system.
----------
According to Venezuelan friends of mine, Chavez is pretty much done for at home and is on his way out. Watching him is like watching Ghadaffi of yore prior to being 'tamed' and brought into the world's political fold.

The Russian fleet sounds like a major environmental hazard to me...maybe we ought to get Al Gore involved with this one...send him to Gitmo and let him start talking and the hurricane season will certainly be extended. :p

Maybe we ought to remind Vladimir and countrymen of the last Russian White Fleet's fate - at Tsushima. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[Surf n Turf]

Maybe we ought to remind Vladimir and countrymen of the last Russian White Fleet's fate - at Tsushima. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin


Richard,
Great Point !! - It has been 45 years since I studied the Russo-Japanese war. Here is a short version for those interested

SnT

Dogger Bank incident – 21 Oct 1904
The involved Russian warships were on their way to the Far East, to partake in the Russo-Japanese War. Because of wrong reports about the presence of Japanese torpedo boats and general nervousness of the Russian sailors, approximately 30 harmless British fishing trawlers were attacked by the Russians, thousands of miles away from the enemy waters. The disaster began in the evening, when the drunken captain of the supply ship Kamtchatka (Камчатка), which was last in the Russian line, took a passing Swedish ship for a Japanese torpedo boat and radioed that he was being attacked. Later in the night the officers on duty sighted the British ships, interpreted their signals incorrectly and classified them as Japanese torpedo boats, and consequently opened fire on the British fishermen. The British trawler Crane was sunk and two British fishermen lost their lives. On the other boats there were six fishermen wounded, one of whom died a few months later. In the general chaos, Russian ships shot at each other: when the protected cruiser Aurora (Aврора), which had yet to be involved, approached, she was taken for a Japanese warship, bombarded and slightly damaged. At least one Russian sailor was killed, another badly wounded.
The incident led to a serious diplomatic conflict between Russia and Great Britain, which was particularly dangerous due to the alliance that existed between Britain and Japan. In the aftermath some British newspapers called the Russian fleet "pirates". The Royal Navy intervened, and the Russian admiral Zinovi Petrovich Rozhdestvenski was heavily criticized for not leaving the British sailors lifeboats. The Royal Navy went after the Russian fleet and bottled her up in Vigo, Spain. The Russian government agreed to investigate the incident, after which, the Russian ships were let free. The Russian government paid £66,000 as compensation for the fishermen in order to placate the British government.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1903985315/qid=1091840985/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_8_6/026-5255219-6445241.

Battle of Tsushima 27 May 1905
After half circumnavigating the world, the Russian fleet was surprised by the Japanese in the Straits of Tsushima between Korea and Japan. Vice Adm Zinoviy Rozhdestvenskiy commanded the Russian force. His eight battleships, nine cruisers (only one of them armoured), three coast defence monitors, and an assortment of other ships ran into Adm Togo's four battleships and 24 cruisers, eight of them armoured. The Russians had 228 guns to the Japanese 910 but their strength in big guns—8 to 12 inch—was almost equal, with 54 Russian to 60 Japanese. At 07.00 on 27 May the Russians spotted a Japanese cruiser. At 13.15 the Russians encountered the main Japanese fleet trying to cross their bows, and at 13.49 they opened fire at a range of 38 cables (more than 7, 000 yards (6401 metres) ). In the battle that followed the Russians lost all eight battleships and their armoured cruiser, and one of the monitors, plus a number of other ships. The cruiser Aurora, which later signalled the storming of the Winter Palace in the Russian Revolution of November 1917, made it to Manila, but only one cruiser and two torpedo boats reached Vladivostok. The Russian fleet had been utterly destroyed.
http://www.russojapanesewar.com/tsushima.html