View Full Version : Hernia question in regards to RIP/SFAS?
Hello gents; I had a question regarding hernias. Mainly, has anyone gone through RIP and/or SFAS with a hernia? I have read and searched, but most of the hernia/LBP questions don't quite answer my question. What sorts of precautions should I take while at RIP or SFAS? Also, does anyone have any tips for those going through selection with back problems (i.e. special rucking tips, etc.)?
If it means anything:
I'm not looking for an excuse not to go; in fact I've made up my mind: at the end of this school year, I know a recruiter who says he can help me go active and get either RIP or SFAS. I'm going to go and I'm either gonna get selected, get a tan beret, or come home in a casket; no middle ground.
My pertinent medical history:
2 compression fractures (L4 and L5)- 6 years ago
1 hernia- 2 weeks ago
Also, about 2 months ago I was doing some yard work and was bent over, and when I went to stand up, I felt and heard a hard pop in my back followed by a paralyzing pain. It went away in about 3 days, so I never got it checked out.
I have never had any surgeries that would affect/aggrivate my back.
I only take Ibuprofen and Acetominophen for my back- no perscription meds.
I PT regularly, and I always warm up/cool down properly. I think what caused this was ruck-running in my desert boots (35 lb ruck) 2.5 miles a day, 2-3 days per week (I know, in retrospect, stupid, stupid idea). My back still hurts and so do other areas (anyone whose ever had one knows exactly what I'm talking about), so now I'm taking it easy- only 1-1.5 miles at a time at a dead slow 8 min/mile pace. It doesn't affect my pushups, but my situps and pullups feel wierd-not painful, just wierd.
If anyone has any advise on this subject, I'd greatly appericate it.
The Reaper
09-05-2008, 20:16
Honestly?
I think you have used up too much of yourself already to be successful in SF.
See our advice to other old/broken guys who want to try out.
TR
Ambush Master
09-05-2008, 20:51
Honestly?
I think you have used up too much of yourself already to be successful in SF.
See our advice to other old/broken guys who want to try out.
TR
On top of that!! Have you even gone through BAC?!?!?!
I don't see how you could possibly make it through Airborne Training = BAC!!
(See below):
https://www.infantry.army.mil/airborne/airborne/
Take care.
Martin
longrange1947
09-05-2008, 21:41
DO NOT go through either with a hernia. I am assuming inguinal, you can have an estrangulation that is life threatening. I have had two hernias, one form lifting and the other from an auto accident. Get them repaired and heal completely.
DO NOT go through either with a bad back. You have injuries that are normally associated with several years of SF time. Trying to go through training in either locations can cause permanent injury.
As TR stated, you have used your body already, do not try for another dip in the pond. It could very well become a forever problem.
My 2 cents with both injuries and over 20 years in SF.
Really?! I had no idea it was that serious. Even though I didn't have the hernia at the time, I went through Air Assault a month or so back with no problems whatsoever. At my unit I'm sitting in an Airborne slot, and I was really looking forward to going, and I still really want to, but I don't want permanently injuring myself and I especially don't want to put my life at risk over a hernia.
What if the pain goes away and it heals? Or, what if I get the surgery and it works? I'm 21 years old, I still have many years left in me! Thanks so much for your replies; like I said, I expected to get replies telling me to suck it the hell up. I had no idea this was so bad...
Kyobanim
09-08-2008, 13:32
What if the pain goes away and it heals? Or, what if I get the surgery and it works? I'm 21 years old, I still have many years left in me! Thanks so much for your replies; like I said, I expected to get replies telling me to suck it the hell up. I had no idea this was so bad...
A hernia is not going to heal its self. Go to the doc and get it repaired. It's outpatient surgery. Doing BAC with a hernia is not a good idea. Once it's repaired you heal it will be fine.
I have heard that if I get that surgery, I will be put on a permanent profile, and I REALLY don't want that (but I also don't want a permanent injury). Is there any way to avoid the profile part (if not at least the permanent part)? I've heard that a permanent profile is damned near impossible to get lifted. I really want to be SF or a Ranger. Pain I can deal with, it's the permanent and possibly life-threatening part that scares me.
Surgicalcric
09-08-2008, 14:33
Regardless of what you want this hernia issue is standing in your way. either get it fixed and accept the possibility of being placed on a permanent profile or not; the decision is yours. My advice to you is go see the Doc and find out your options. If you dont want the surgery because of profile then so be it.
That being said, I dont want you serving on an ODA with one of my brothers while having a current issue that could not only cost your life but others as well. There is an issue here with your health and your ability to be a functioning member of an ODA or Ranger Platoon, depending on which path you choose, both of which will be very demanding on your body.
You have no been given advice from a senior SF Officer, (2) senior SF NCO's, and a junior SF NCO. What more do you need??
I truly wish you the best in your career, but SF/Ranger isnt it brother.
Crip
longrange1947
09-08-2008, 17:00
You are not gong to get a permanent profile unless something goes wrong. As I said, I have had two surgeries as I have had two separate incidents. However, once herniated, it is a strong possibility to do so again.
I got my first hernia in 1970 while with 10th SFG(A) and had surgery within 1 week of hernia. I herniated out of stupid young ego crap in which I tried to lift something that required two. I did it but I paid dearly for it.
Your back is another issue that can not be ignored. It, just as your hernia will not heal on its own, it will feel better and then it will take you to your knees.
Take your choices but understand that no ODA can afford to have a man that is not up to it. One of the reasons that I retired out of SF in 90 was because I could not hang with the young studs and would not hold them back nor would I risk their safety over my inability to hang.
Regardless of what you want this hernia issue is standing in your way. either get it fixed and accept the possibility of being placed on a permanent profile or not; the decision is yours. My advice to you is go see the Doc and find out your options.
Thanks again all for your replies. I guess if it's not in the cards, then it's not in the cards. And I most definately don't want to put anyone at risk because I had to be a dumbass and join up with a major injury.
I'm going to take Surgicalcric's advise and just go and get it checked out, and find out what my options are. If I get the surgery and I make a full recovery, I'll most definately start training up again (minus the ruck-running, of course). If not, then I guess it just isn't meant to be...Thanks again for everybody's advise.
RichL025
09-08-2008, 23:29
Inguinal Hernias can be repaired. Once repaired, you will not need a profile or anything else like that - you will (effectively) be just as good as people who never had a hernia.
Have your primary doc refer you to a surgeon with experience performing laparoscopic hernia repairs. You will be back to work & full activity quicker.
As others mentioned, aside from the pain a hernia can cause, the real risk is strangulation, which is a "get to a surgeon in 8 hours or die" emergency. The risk is quite small, but still greater than zero, and not getting the hernia fixed means you're rolling that die for a lifetime.
As for your back, don't know what to tell you. I knew plenty of guys in SF with bad backs who learned to work around them and still were outstanding contributors to the team. And I knew some who had to get a permanent desk job because they could never trust their back to hold up. If you can make it through SFAS without your back crapping out, you've probably figured out how to work around it <g>.
Good luck.
The Reaper
09-09-2008, 09:15
THere is a world of difference between a guy who is already SF qualified when he is injured finding ways to stay in the force and contribute, and a guy who has those sort of physical limitations and is not even in the pipeline yet. It isn't good for you, or your potential teammates. Your back is going to get worse, not better, and the more you abuse it, the faster it will happen.
My Grandma wanted to be SF too, but she couldn't. I want to be a PowerBall winner, but aren't.
You can't always get what you want. That is a lesson life will teach you repeatedly over the years.
Best of luck.
TR
RichL025
09-10-2008, 22:10
Reaper,
I agree with you in principle, but I'm not sure this guy is "physically limited". He distantly had 2 compression fractures, presumably from an acute injury. Assuming that they are fully healed (as he indicated) then the worst he has to worry about is arthritis in his 50s instead of his 60s. His episode a few months ago sounds like an acute back sprain, again, NOT something that is necessarily going to indicate that he has a "weak" back.
He's 21 years old. I sincerely doubt he is describing degenerative disc disease or that he has a herniated disc. He's just a kid who lifted something awkwardly & had an acute strain (as evidenced by his complete recovery after 3 days)
Unless SFAS has changed significantly since I went through, he will have a helluva "stress test" to see how good his back really is. (Hell, I've got a great back, and it nearly killed ME) If he can be selected through SFAS, then I dare say his back has just as much chance of holding out as anyones'.
If he truly has physical limitations from his back, then that will come out in SFAS (hell, it would probably come out in basic trainng!)
To the OP: If that's really what you want to do, then by all means I say go for it. Special Operators are always in short supply. Just beware that the vast majority of people who start the training "pipeline" do not finish (which is why they are in such short supply).
(Caveat to original poster: I am not your doctor, and have no way of diagnosing you. All of this advice is in general, and any medical advice is subject to confirmation by your doctor after he has a chance to examine you)
Red Flag 1
09-11-2008, 17:46
Ak,
You have not shared with us how you sustained compression fractures of L 4 and 5 . It is none of our business, but there it is. The same is true with your unresolved hernia. Both are stress injuries in an otherwise young healthy male, from what I have read here.
During you physical exam before active duty, your hernia will be evident. If you have had a repair, that will also be evident, nod to RichL025. Should you choose, you could not declare your back injury and perhaps skate by with that for a bit. I would suspect that initial basic training will produce enough stress to give you back symptoms again ( this is not "backyard work").
Should you survive basic training without symptoms, and get selected for Airborne Training at Ft. Benning, I would bet your prior back injury will really put you down. This is still pipeline status.
How you choose to deal with your hernia, and back stress injuries are up to you and your medical care provider.Your hernia will not fix itself. Your back injuries will surface again, as you have mentioned. As the QP's here have pointed out, a change in plans look like a really good idea.
I humbly respond here with the blessing of a heavy hitter QP. My medical training and considerable practice is in anesthesia. I do wish you the best of luck as you plan for your future.
RF 1
The compression fractures happened 5 or 6 years ago when I was snowmaching in a ravine. I took a really hard it; flew over the handlebars and all. Next day my back was killing me. After it didn't go away for a few weeks I went to the doc. He ordered an xray and said I had two compression fractures.
As for the hernia itself-and I swear by this- I bent over at the waist to get a coke from a vending machine---no joke. I felt a hard pop, and for a moment, the pain literally paralyzed me. I didn't move for a few moments, and even then only slowly. My mother is a RN of 13 years, so I called her, and she said she was sure it was a hernia.
What's wierd is that whenever I sit or stand still, my back kills me (and not to be too graphic, but my left testicle-only the left one-feels like someone just flicked it really hard). But anytime I'm moving or actually doing something, it's totally fine. In Air Assault, I did all the rappels, and even the 12-miler comfortably with no pain or problems whatsoever.
Maybe I'm just allergic to being lazy?:rolleyes:
Young man
Go and have it fixed and the back will have to be evaluated.
RichL025
11-06-2008, 09:50
Umm, have you been diagnosed with a hernia by a medical professional who examined you and confirmed it?
... I didn't move for a few moments, and even then only slowly. My mother is a RN of 13 years, so I called her, and she said she was sure it was a hernia....
... But anytime I'm moving or actually doing something, it's totally fine.
That section of your quote that I bolded is very unusual for a hernia. Get yourself to a MD (no offense to your Mom) and have them examine you for a hernia.
May be out of my lane but I had an Inguinal hernia that I am pretty sure I got while I was still in the Corps (often times as it was explained to me this can occur naturally due to a gap in the floor of your abdominal wall where your testicles drop down from during puberty and for whatever reason the gap is just too big or it gets tweaked which could explain your cookie incident). I ignored it for a while like a blunt idiot. Eventually my girlfriend forced me to go to the emergency room and what could have been a relatively non invasive procedure to place mesh over it turned into an awesome six inch scar that makes it look like I got gutted at some point, all because I was thinking the way you are about it. Point is don't risk it, fix it ASAP so you can get back to work ASAP. I was up and moving two days later (not gonna lie it hurt worse cause I waited so long) and was down for two months from serious physical activity but after that I went back to playing Rugby and working out so if you take care of it and follow the docs advice you will be ok. Don't be stubborn like me. Retreating back to my LP/OP.
Prester John
02-03-2009, 03:48
I too had an inguinal hernia about 8 years ago. I had the surgery and no one in the military has ever raised an eyebrow about the doctor's note I have on the procedure.
As for this guy's training... a 2.5 mile ruck run would be a warm-up for him in SOPC. And, that would only be the tip of the iceberg. I'm not sure where he timed himself, but an 8 minute mile, rucking, is one of the fastest I've ever heard of. If that is "Dead slow" for him, maybe he is cut out for it.
Doug
OK, so after fighting with Tricare for almost 2 months, in addition to the fact that my Doc's assistant NEVER picks up her phone or returns calls, last week I finally got a lumbar MRI, and just today had a follow-up with my Doc to discuss them. It turns out, as was mentioned here before by some, that the hernia diagnosis was both pre-mature and false. The Doc said that that "pop" was most likely my back coming out of alignment. Beyond that, he said that jumping out of airplanes, rucking (the smart way, of course), and doing all that other huah-stuff will not break my back or paralyze me. It aint gonna make it better, and it may cause a little more pain than normal, but I'm not going to find myself paralyzed on some battlefield because of this. Here are the EXACT words on the "Test Results" paper from the Radiologist he gave me:
IMPRESSION: Mild degenerative disk and facet joint disease without evidence of herniated nucleus pulposus or neural impingement.
He also said that the mild degenerative disk disease is very common, pull anyone off the street and there's a good chance they have it. He said as far as the SF route goes, to knock myself out. The best thing for the pain is to exercise my back muscles (he said supermans were particularly good). Beyond that, no surgery (thank god), no rigid physical therapy program, no drugs. He said to try taking chondrotin sulfate and mesalare (hope I spelled that right, Doctors handwriting and all), which would not cure the disease, but would help slow the progression, and to take Aleve when the pain gets real bad.
OK, so now that that's out of the way and there's no hernia (again, thank god), I can again focus of SF prospects. I know for a fact that there's something I did to hurt myself: I NEVER warmed up or cooled down when I exercised, not even when I ruck-ran. I learned the hard way. Anybody who's training up, please learn form my mistake and DONT BE AN IDIOT LIKE I WAS! I was told a thousand times how important warm-ups and cool-downs are, but I never did them. I think I really shot myself in the foot with that.
So now I'm taking it slow. A few miles at a manageable pace here and there. Pushups, pullups, situps, etc. I still do to the max. I think I also might have hurt myself in that I never considered my workout/runs to be good unless I felt like I was about to die, and then pushed myself some more. Perhaps the constant over-exertion contributed as well.
So, with all that said and done, I personally feel that I can once again get back to gearing up. I've decided that I want to finish a few more semesters of college, so I have some time. Beyond that, if anyone has any more/other advice, I'd be all ears, and more than thankfull for it. Thank you all for all your contributions, and for helping me with this!
RichL025
02-04-2009, 22:02
...IMPRESSION: Mild degenerative disk and facet joint disease without evidence of herniated nucleus pulposus or neural impingement.
He also said that the mild degenerative disk disease is very common, pull anyone off the street and there's a good chance they have it....!
Yup, fancy radiologic words for "wear and tear".
Go forth and train, young man. And stretch, warm-up, and cool-down.
RL
Yup, fancy radiologic words for "wear and tear".
Go forth and train, young man. And stretch, warm-up, and cool-down.
RL
Yes!!! This is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thank you!!!