Apple

[Warrior-Mentor]

Ok, so this isn't a news flash for many, but i just converted from PC to Mac and have to confess I've been blown away by the performance out of the box.

Bought a Mac Mini (~$600 USD) plugged it in and within 15 minutes was up on the web with all the drivers automatically loaded for the printers (without me having to do anything other than input my personal info).

Compare this to my experience with a NEW PC with Windows Vista 2 weeks ago...

Had the PC hard wired into my router and couldn't get on line. Had TWO Computer Technicians out to the house and still couldn't get online. Without online, couldn't load printer drivers etc. Packed it back up and returned the POS to the store.

Can't even tell you how FAST this Mac mini is...I hit the page and it opens...almost no wait for pages to upload. Great stuff.

I'm sure COL Jack will think I'm telling stories, but this is the cat's meow.

We'll see how much I love it after a month or so figuring out the other features, but from my first 1/2 day ... I love it.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Ok, so this isn't a news flash for many, but i just converted from PC to Mac and have to confess I've been blown away by the performance out of the box.

Bought a Mac Mini (~$600 USD) plugged it in and within 15 minutes was up on the web with all the drivers automatically loaded for the printers (without me having to do anything other than input my personal info).

Compare this to my experience with a NEW PC with Windows Vista 2 weeks ago...

Had the PC hard wired into my router and couldn't get on line. Had TWO Computer Technicians out to the house and still couldn't get online. Without online, couldn't load printer drivers etc. Packed it back up and returned the POS to the store.

Can't even tell you how FAST this Mac mini is...I hit the page and it opens...almost no wait for pages to upload. Great stuff.

I'm sure COL Jack will think I'm telling stories, but this is the cat's meow.

We'll see how much I love it after a month or so figuring out the other features, but from my first 1/2 day ... I love it.


Welcome to the Mac world! It will only get better! You'll never go back to the Darkside! :eek::D

[FldDoc]

You wont be disappointed even after years of using it. I bet you will change your lap top too . I made the switch 5 or 6 years ago and my G-5 still runs as fast as the day I got it. And I haven't had to de-frag every month nor have I had to re-do the system or run any number of virus, ad blockers or scrubs for things that have attached themselves to my hard drive. everyone I tell this to always says it's just a matter of time until the hackers get into the OS for Mac's but, I haven't seen it yet despite the hippies belief that Apple has sold out "to the man". Different system without all of the avenues of approach into my life.
Good luck.
P.S. one weakness I have seen is that the Office for Mac bundle doesn't have Access. But the MAC PP and Word has more options then the Windows versions. And if you run Windows for Mac, you also run the risk of a virus attacking the Windows portion of your HD. I'm not willing to take the risk and honestly besides the game Total War, I don't miss anything Windows had. (Well, except Access)
My 0.02 cents.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

I'm sure COL Jack will think I'm telling stories, but this is the cat's meow.

My daughter swears by hers, but when there is a problem it always seems to be a major problem and she hauls it back to the "Mac" store. But then she probably get's her cyber challenged genes from me:D Of course, as I am on dial up for at least the next year or two, speed is not a concern. By the time you get this msg you will probably be on your way to your next assignment.
I will be interested in what you think after you have worked with it for a while. I have become more dependent on this box than I ever thought I would have and it seems that you just cannot take care of day to day business with anyone without having an internet connection. Especially being out in the woods, it saves a lot of time and travel for just about everything.

[37F5V]

I bought an iMac for the house about a year or so ago. For this deployment I picked up a MacBook. I will never again buy another windows machine.

The learning curve really isn't that steep and have found that just about everything about the software and hardware subscribes to the form follows function mantra.

I think you will be very pleased with your purchase.

[JumpinJoe1010]

I agree about Mac computers. The computer I purchased is one piece. No tower and monitor combo. It fits nicely on a desk, and doesn't take up much space. When I pulled it out of the box, I was up and running within 5 minutes, and was on the internet shortly after. It has Airport, which enables to be wireless if you prefer, so now my computer is on my wireless router. Also no downloads for my printer, and no crashes.

There are two problems that I have ran into. One is that trying to use Rosetta Stone through the Army's Skillsoft version, the Adobe Flash has an error I still haven't been able to work out, even with tech support. The other is not having powerpoint. They have the Word for Mac version for $189, but I haven't heard enough good news about it yet, so I am holding off. The nice thing is that when I type documents, they are transferable to PC's in RTF (Rich Text Format), and I can save them as PDF documents!

Also as a side, if you like to record music, Garage Band is top notch. To get a similar program off the shelf you would pay upwards of $800.

Oh, and widgets are cool, I have the Chuck Norris joke widget. :D

[69harley]

I agree about Mac computers. The computer I purchased is one piece. No tower and monitor combo. It fits nicely on a desk, and doesn't take up much space. When I pulled it out of the box, I was up and running within 5 minutes, and was on the internet shortly after. It has Airport, which enables to be wireless if you prefer, so now my computer is on my wireless router. Also no downloads for my printer, and no crashes.

There are two problems that I have ran into. One is that trying to use Rosetta Stone through the Army's Skillsoft version, the Adobe Flash has an error I still haven't been able to work out, even with tech support. The other is not having powerpoint. They have the Word for Mac version for $189, but I haven't heard enough good news about it yet, so I am holding off. The nice thing is that when I type documents, they are transferable to PC's in RTF (Rich Text Format), and I can save them as PDF documents!

Also as a side, if you like to record music, Garage Band is top notch. To get a similar program off the shelf you would pay upwards of $800.

Oh, and widgets are cool, I have the Chuck Norris joke widget. :D

You can purchase the full version of Office for Mac direct from Microsoft for $20 through the Army Small Computer Program. All you need is a .mil email address.

I am a recent Mac convert and cannot imagine having to go back to a PC. But if you have programs that will only run on a PC, there is a Mac fix for that as well. Bootcamp will allow a Mac to run Windows at boot up and Parallels will allow windows to run inside a separate window within a Mac window. Very cool.

If you need to plug this into an Army network, good luck. Mac's drive most IT people crazy, let alone Windows running within a Mac.

[Red Flag 1]

I've heard tons of great stuff Re: MAC, have never used one. Any problems running PC software?

RF 1

[69harley]

I've heard tons of great stuff Re: MAC, have never used one. Any problems running PC software?

RF 1

On my Mac I run parralels and windows xp. I do not have any issues with windows software on the Mac. I can even drag stuff from the windows screen into the Mac screen.

I doubt I will ever buy PC for hardware again. With bootcamp I can choose to boot in Mac or Windows. Try doing that on a PC platform. Plus I think that Mac hardware is superior to PC hardware.

Just my $.02.

[Red Flag 1]

69harley,

My understanding of MAC is that graphics are head and shoulders above PC.

I'll have to do some price shopping.

Anyone look at online availability and pricing.

Thanks!

RF 1

[greenberetTFS]

On my Mac I run parralels and windows xp. I do not have any issues with windows software on the Mac. I can even drag stuff from the windows screen into the Mac screen.

I doubt I will ever buy PC for hardware again. With bootcamp I can choose to boot in Mac or Windows. Try doing that on a PC platform. Plus I think that Mac hardware is superior to PC hardware.

Just my $.02.

69harley,

My wife and I both have Macs,she is running XP and Vista on her PC depending on the programs she has installed. I'm running Linux and XP on mine. OS 10.5.7 is on both of our Mac sides. She's heavy into Photoshop and it's far superior on the Mac side then on her PC. We've owned Macs for over 15 years now and you can't beat the big difference between the two....Go Mac :D

GB TFS:lifter

[The Reaper]

Let me be the odd man out here.

I have used Macs several times over the years.

Last time was a MacBook Pro for a year in 2006-2007.

It had limited applications, and locked up hard in less than 60 days. Apple tech support wanted me to ship it back to them, but they could not guarantee when it would be returned, and I needed it for business. Alternate plan was to drive 70 miles to the nearest Apple store, where the zit-boy working the "Genius" counter was absolutely one of the stupidest people I have ever met, finally said they would ship it back to Apple for me. After two hours and getting the store manager involved, they troubleshot it and told me that it was a burned out controller board, they did not have any in stock, did not know how to get one, and they would have to return it to Apple. After more negotiations, they finally agreed to replace the entire MacBook with another one, and begrudgingly swapped my hard drive with the existing data into the new system. This basically took an entire afternoon, and did not endear Apple to me.

I subsequently turned the Apple in and bought a Dell for a lot less money. I have been very happy with the Dell system and their customer service seems significantly better than the Mac. OTOH, the connectivity, audio, and graphics programs for the Mac were much better than the PC counterparts. For gaming, it just flat out sucks.

The reason that there are few viruses and security issues with the Apple is that it is a low-density item, and the majority of overseas hackers do not have access to them. The first serious threats are just beginning to emerge, and I anticipate more as the systems become more popular and widespread.

Been there, tried it, did not like it for the money it costs. YMMV.

TR

[Kyobanim]

The reason that there are few viruses and security issues with the Apple is that it is a low-density item, and the majority of overseas hackers do not have access to them. The first serious threats are just beginning to emerge, and I anticipate more as the systems become more popular and widespread.

Exactly.

I've been in the IT business since 93 and have done just about every job from desktop support to network engineering and haven't run across anything a Mac would do better than my PC.

Macs are great for graphics. Then again, if you purchase the right PC you'll have the same thing for less money. Most of the graphics on this and other websites came from my PC. There's hardly any software worth a damn out there for Macs. If you have to run an application that lets you run PC software, why even use the Mac? If I want a game I get it when it's released, not a year later when everyone stops playing it.

A Mac equivalent to my current PC would cost well over 4K; I paid less than a grand for what I'm using now. If something breaks I go to compusa and get a new part. That won't ever happen with a Mac.

But to each his own.

[ZonieDiver]

You wont be disappointed even after years of using it. I bet you will change your lap top too . I made the switch 5 or 6 years ago and my G-5 still runs as fast as the day I got it. And I haven't had to de-frag every month nor have I had to re-do the system or run any number of virus, ad blockers or scrubs for things that have attached themselves to my hard drive. everyone I tell this to always says it's just a matter of time until the hackers get into the OS for Mac's but, I haven't seen it yet despite the hippies belief that Apple has sold out "to the man". Different system without all of the avenues of approach into my life.
Good luck.
P.S. one weakness I have seen is that the Office for Mac bundle doesn't have Access. But the MAC PP and Word has more options then the Windows versions. And if you run Windows for Mac, you also run the risk of a virus attacking the Windows portion of your HD. I'm not willing to take the risk and honestly besides the game Total War, I don't miss anything Windows had. (Well, except Access)
My 0.02 cents.

I've used Mac's since '83 and my first IIe (due to a family member high up in the food chain at Apple) - but am primarily on PC platform now - mainly due to work. Apple Tech Support has deteriorated drastically over the years, especially in the last five or so. If you have to go into one of the Apple stores, good luck getting anyone to even CARE about your computer - it seems all they are interested in is the iPod/iPhone.

[C-Fro]

I've used Mac computers for at least 10 years now. Back then there was not as much software compatible with Macs' compared to the Microsofts. Now pretty much every software is backwards compatible between Macs' and Pc. I rarely come up with a problem when it comes to that.

On the flipside I also have Microsofts' pc. I have recently converted to Vista and was not impressed at all. I had to crash the computer twice and start from scratch, Not very fun to say the least. While the computer did run, It ran in safe mode. Then I Partitioned my computer so I could start up with either XP or Vista. Still had problems, So I ended up getting rid of Vista all together. What A Wonderful Waste Of Money :D. Back to XP I go.

[Warrior-Mentor]

Fair enough. We'll see how much I love it 30, 60, 90 days or a year from now.

But for now, I'm diggin' it.

[stuW]

I'd say the audience is important to consider with regard to who apple is catering to. Their market share is growing at 50% a year, with many of the purchases being first time buyers. Additionally, they offer college students a free i-pod for purchasing a mac in the fall. Their customer service and the number of stores they have can't possibly meet the new demand. This has resulted in an online appointment system, designed to prevent huge unserved crowds in stores by requiring people to set up appointments days in advance.

The customer service is not very good, but the most annoying part for me is the lack of an accidental warranty. This in my opinion is related to audience - it is younger, and therefore is more likely to break their products.

One thing I'd suggest everyone consider is the Pro-care plan. After several problems with my mac and having to wait for a week to get the computer back, I made an investment in pro-care. This allows you to show up without an appointment, skip the repair queue and a couple other small perks. It costs a bit more, but it is worth getting my computer back if it breaks in 24 hours, instead of 7 days.

[Pete S]

I grew using Macs.

I didn't think the Macbook air was a well thought out product.

I still waiting for the Mac version of the Toughbook to be released here. IIRC the Singapore military has a version of it.



The customer service is not very good, but the most annoying part for me is the lack of an accidental warranty. This in my opinion is related to audience - it is younger, and therefore is more likely to break their products.


I have had 3 Macs of my own and have never bought them directly from Apple.

The last one I bought from Fry's with a 3 year warranty and they did everything from replacing the screen and key board, to cleaning the Iraqi sand from it. All free of charge and no questions asked and they included a loaner computer.

[magician]

No need to transfer documents in RTF format to a Windows machine to then save them as .PDFs.

The Mac has built-in .PDF support.

All that you have to do is select Print, then look for the button in the Print window titled PDF. You will have all the options that you need right there.

You do not need to purchase Adobe Acrobat for any of this. It is built into the OS.

You do not need to use Adobe Acrobat to read .PDF documents, either. The Mac ships with an application called Preview that enables you to read them.

If you need PowerPoint, you can purchase Office for the Mac.

[Slantwire]

If you need PowerPoint, you can purchase Office for the Mac.

I use Open Office at home (on Windows). I've yet to find something I do with MS Office that I can't do with it, and it's free. If I need to use or share a document on another system, it can save in other formats (pdf included). Have any of y'all used the Mac version?

[FldDoc]

I'd say the audience is important to consider with regard to who apple is catering to. Their market share is growing at 50% a year, with many of the purchases being first time buyers. Additionally, they offer college students a free i-pod for purchasing a mac in the fall. Their customer service and the number of stores they have can't possibly meet the new demand. This has resulted in an online appointment system, designed to prevent huge unserved crowds in stores by requiring people to set up appointments days in advance.

The customer service is not very good, but the most annoying part for me is the lack of an accidental warranty. This in my opinion is related to audience - it is younger, and therefore is more likely to break their products.

One thing I'd suggest everyone consider is the Pro-care plan. After several problems with my mac and having to wait for a week to get the computer back, I made an investment in pro-care. This allows you to show up without an appointment, skip the repair queue and a couple other small perks. It costs a bit more, but it is worth getting my computer back if it breaks in 24 hours, instead of 7 days.

I would have to agree with you on this point. Out of all the extended warranties the one for MAC's is one of two recommended by buyers magazines and such.

[Red Flag 1]

From those who have had some real keyboard time with both; is there a single "home run " point for:

MAC v PC
PC v MAC

:confused:

Thanks!

RF 1

[FldDoc]

From those who have had some real keyboard time with both; is there a single "home run " point for:

MAC v PC
PC v MAC

:confused:

Thanks!

RF 1

For me the "Home Run" is the stability of the operating system. I have never had a crash or a frozen screen. I've never had to spend money on software to get rid of internet things that have attached themselves to my hard drive. I've never had to download any drivers. Anything I have ever hooked up has been recognized and works within minutes.
I can't say any of that when I had a PC after the first 30 days.

[morolen]

Macs are great if you are not a tinkerer with your PC, if you want it to just work and be good to go, Macs are great. Also to Apple's credit they made consumer electronics stylish, an Ipod is a fashionable accessory these days, that in an of itself is a feat indeed.

However...try not to hold Vista against PC's...I am a pc person and I cant handle vista due to hardware compatibility problems with my Canon 350d. Alot of Mac's stability stems, as TR said, from them being a low-density item. Considering how stable XP is with the amount of questionably written apps that tend to litter peoples PC's, says alot about the OS. I would venture a guess that if OSX had to deal with as many strange programs on a daily basis, well, we would see more photos like this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/morolen/1200504440578.jpg
In the Apple store no less.


To dispel another myth, as for graphics(and by this I mean programs like 3dsMax, maya and lightwave not games), Since macs now use Intel rather then the Power cpu's of yore, They will render a scene at exactly the same rate as a windows machine with an Intel.

Also, don't game on a Mac, it makes kittens cry, especially for the price needed to get a mac that could play an serious games, have one of the skilled people here build a gaming pc for half or better of the cost of a Mac that can play games at all, let alone well.

edit-Speaking of that...i dont suppose any of you have insider information about then America's Army 2 will be coming out;) I love that game. :)

[Kyobanim]

From those who have had some real keyboard time with both; is there a single "home run " point for:

MAC v PC
PC v MAC

:confused:

Thanks!

RF 1

I could list pages of good PC things, but consider this. There's only one brand that can claim the following:

1. 100% of their systems assembled in the USA by US workers?
2. 100% of their tech support calls and emails answered in the USA by US workers?
3. They have a company policy to NEVER export American jobs?

Systemax, you can find them at Tiger Direct and CompUSA. Very good prices too. Even apple doesn't do that.

[Red Flag 1]

I could list pages of good PC things, but consider this. There's only one brand that can claim the following:

1. 100% of their systems assembled in the USA by US workers?
2. 100% of their tech support calls and emails answered in the USA by US workers?
3. They have a company policy to NEVER export American jobs?

Systemax, you can find them at Tiger Direct and CompUSA. Very good prices too. Even apple doesn't do that.

Thanks!!

How is customer support?

Even if average, at least one could understand the tech support!!!
I looked at Compaq once, great PC price. After learning the Customer support could cost me, based on their opinion on if it was or was not a "warranty item", I went with PC from Gateway. Have made six Gateway purchases since; never regretted it. Gateway support, even out or warranty, has been free and spot on, never a charge. In general, all Gateway CS has been from USA or Canada.

Thanks again Kyboanim!!

RF 1

[morolen]

I could list pages of good PC things, but consider this. There's only one brand that can claim the following:

1. 100% of their systems assembled in the USA by US workers?
2. 100% of their tech support calls and emails answered in the USA by US workers?
3. They have a company policy to NEVER export American jobs?

Systemax, you can find them at Tiger Direct and CompUSA. Very good prices too. Even apple doesn't do that.

wow, i had no idea, well i have a new brand to recomend to people for sure.

[Kyobanim]

http://www.systemaxpc.com/

I don't own one yet, but will in a couple weeks. (Wife's PC finally bit the big one.) I'll let you know how it turns out.

BTW, wife's PC was a Dell desktop purchased new 6 years ago. Since the drive is going I convinced her to replace it because 'everything will start going now'. hehe, she bought it. I'm turning her current 'bad' pc into a web server.

[Red Flag 1]

http://www.systemaxpc.com/

I don't own one yet, but will in a couple weeks. (Wife's PC finally bit the big one.) I'll let you know how it turns out.

BTW, wife's PC was a Dell desktop purchased new 6 years ago. Since the drive is going I convinced her to replace it because 'everything will start going now'. hehe, she bought it. I'm turning her current 'bad' pc into a web server.


Six years ....seems like pretty good service.

[morolen]

http://www.systemaxpc.com/

I don't own one yet, but will in a couple weeks. (Wife's PC finally bit the big one.) I'll let you know how it turns out.

BTW, wife's PC was a Dell desktop purchased new 6 years ago. Since the drive is going I convinced her to replace it because 'everything will start going now'. hehe, she bought it. I'm turning her current 'bad' pc into a web server.

Nice, your ISP doesn't throw a hissy-fit when you try to run an at home server? Lucky you.

Is there any better use for the old pc? ;)

[Kyobanim]

http://www.systemaxpc.com/

A game server, but I've already got a couple of those.

[frostfire]

FWIW:

It's pretty much given that art and graphics have always been Mac domain. That's how it got started, and as somebody already pointed out, using photoshop in Mac vs. PC will show the differences. A family member of mine works as a graphic designer/commercial artist and swear by Mac. The learning curve is not that steep, but I kept messing up working with his ibook keyboard. Change is hard.

On the other hand, computer geek who's fond of swapping parts/os, overclocking etc. etc. have always gone for PC. Even if one doesn't see one self as computer geek, the trend shows the versatility of PC. Mac may rule with pdf applications, but there are tons other useful gimmick (A/V software, ballistic software etc.), both freeware and shareware, that are only PC compatible. You'd need a genius programmer nephew to covert it into Mac-compatible.

Having said these, I won't be surprised if this POS called Vista turned many new users to Mac. Not to mention, the iPhone is one impressive gadget seemingly straight out of scifi. If it comes with mini hologram projector, then the future is here. If I were a new user, I would have gone to Mac solely based on the iPhone. IMHO, Microsoft should have stopped at NT/2000 or XP. I could count the crashes I had in 6 years with three fingers using NT/2000 or XP.

Also, some creative minds at Dell have learnt from folks at Mac and put artistic appeal to their products as well. PC that comes in a compact, stylish, package is now available. Dell also seems to be the main vendor for the academic world (observation based on two state universities)

As for me, I've long abandoned desktop and use notebook only. I'm an IBM Thinkpad person. During my engineering days, I had seen how much abuse the Thinkpads could take from being dropped, covered with caustic dust every day, and so on. For example, they have feature that turn off your HD at sudden vibration, effectively saving data and preventing the disc in the HD from getting scratched. My current HD has lasted more than 5 years without a single hiccups. After trying other brands, I got tired of all the extra flashy/gimmicks and just searched for reliability and support, even at extra cost. By going for refurbished product, I avoided the extra cost. Granted, IBM laptops are probably the most plain looking, but it's a no-nonsense, business-strict machine. Now that the company is changed to Lenovo, I wonder if the same quality is still there.

Something caught my eye in the earlier replies:
For gaming, it just flat out sucks.
TR and PC games!!??? :eek: :D


Kyobanim, do you have any experience with Systemax laptop? I just might give it a shot

[Kyobanim]

No experience with the laptop. I wasn't in the market when I found this company.

[greenberetTFS]

I read a couple posts on Apples service.... Here is what was recently in the August Consumers Report.... Consumers Report surveying users on the quality of tech support. Among all the computer manufactures,Apple came in first in both desktops (81 percent satisfaction) and laptops (83 percent). Dell was a distant second with 56 percent,while Lenovo(?) took the second notebook spot with 66 percent.
In its report,the magazine cited the Genius Bar as an example of great support,with 90 percent of troubles solved there. I rest my case........:D

GB TFS:munchin

[Seraph]

On my Mac I run parralels and windows xp. I do not have any issues with windows software on the Mac. I can even drag stuff from the windows screen into the Mac screen.
Same here.

I have never known such a novel concept. It's entirely genius, much like many of Jobs' ideas, e.g. iphone.

[Red Flag 1]

I read a couple posts on Apples service.... Here is what was recently in the August Consumers Report.... Consumers Report surveying users on the quality of tech support. Among all the computer manufactures,Apple came in first in both desktops (81 percent satisfaction) and laptops (83 percent). Dell was a distant second with 56 percent,while Lenovo(?) took the second notebook spot with 66 percent.
In its report,the magazine cited the Genius Bar as an example of great support,with 90 percent of troubles solved there. I rest my case........:D

GB TFS:munchin


How did Gateway show?

RF 1

[greenberetTFS]

How did Gateway show?

RF 1

RF1,

I'm not sure because I was copying this info off of an Apple website that was just showing Apples position....I'm sure if you can get a copy of Consumers Report it may have Gateways position...:)

GB TFS :munchin

[bravo22b]

Laptops
Apple 83
Lenovo 66
Dell 60
Toshiba 55
Gateway 54
Sony 51
HP 48

Desktops
Apple 81
Dell 56
Gateway 54
HP 47
Compaq 47

[Red Flag 1]

RF1,

I'm not sure because I was copying this info off of an Apple website that was just showing Apples position....I'm sure if you can get a copy of Consumers Report it may have Gateways position...:)

GB TFS :munchin

Thanks!

RF 1

[frostfire]

Apple came in first in both desktops (81 percent satisfaction) and laptops (83 percent).

Lenovo(?) took the second notebook spot with 66 percent.

In its report,the magazine cited the Genius Bar as an example of great support,with 90 percent of troubles solved there. I rest my case........:D

GB TFS:munchin

Fair enough. I'm glad to cling on the torch-bearer from IBM at the second place. I just can't afford Mac, but I recently acquired a thinkpad T41 with all the system upgrade for $325 :)

[Smokin Joe]

I know I'm necro-posting, but I though it needed to be done

About 6 weeks ago my Dell XPS was being drama, it basically started running like crap for no reason, random shut downs, freezing, etc., one night it was acting up while I was writing a few papers, so I went to reboot it b/c that normally fixed whatever issues it was having. During the shutdown sequence I say the blue screen of death. After that it wouldn't even power up. No clue why, took it to the geek squad, they advised me it was done! I have no clue why but won't even power up. So after pulling what little hair I have left out I did a lot of home work and picked up a new Macbook Pro in the 13.3 inch size.

All I can says is wow, I'm very impressed with Mac's I should have switched a long time ago. It is taking some time to get used to the different OS but, it works, and that is all I care about. I can see now why so many people love them.

Thank you Apple for making a machine that just flat works and does cost me hours trying to fix, reboot, uninstall and reinstall programs.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Am presently using our third in 20 years and am thinking of going bigger. I'v bought a couple I-MACs for my sons.

[Irishsquid]

1) don't go to the freakin' Geek Squad. If you can stand to wait 2 weeks, just pack the machine off to me. I'm more than willing to help out any members of this site.
2) I beg of you, don't blame PCs for the performance problems of Windows. As an aside, there isn't much difference between a Mac and a PC anymore, since Mac stopped using "PowerPC."
3) If you don't want to use it for anything but light computing or surfing the net, Mac may be fine, but when looking at the processing power of a Mac VS. a similarly priced PC, the PC will be better, by an order of magnitude.

Basically, here's my comparison of the major OSs found in most people's homes.

Windows:
PROS - Most prevalent, and as such, most if not all consumer applications run on windows, and are, in fact, MADE for windows.
CONS - Considerably less stable, and more prone to malicious logic. Also, Windows does not make effective or efficient use of resources.

Mac:
PROS - Stable, and fairly user-friendly. Runs a decent amount of software. Makes more efficient use of computer resources.
CONS - Despite being *nix based, most Unix/Linux functionality is missing from Mac. Also, inherantly less secure than comparable versions of Windows. For the price, you receive far less processing power than in a comparably priced PC.

Linux:
PROS - Very stable, and some distros are as user friendly as Mac and Windows (Ubuntu and others.) Very efficient use of computer resources. (I run an up-to-date version of "Xubuntu," on a machine designed to run windows 98. It's also a free OS. It is also able to run on a PC, so you get more "bang for the buck," as far as resources and utility.
CONS - Being "open source," updates are often released too late to be of any use. Some distros of Linux can be rather a pain to configure, while others are quite user-friendly. The majority of consumer software will have to be specially configured to run on *nix.


=======================
So then, for casual web-browsing and light computing, it really doesn't matter. Any OS will run OK, and all will need to be maintained, or performance will degrade.

For graphics or video editing, I'm told Mac is 1k times better, though I don't know this personally, as I'm not in the graphics business.

For gaming, you'll want Windows. Even if you go to the trouble of configuring games to run in Mac or Linux, they'll be less stable.

For "heavy," computing, or resource-intensive functions, such as running a database, or any kind of server expected to see heavy use, I'd go with one of the *nix flavors. If I were *hacking,* which I would never ever do, I'd probably choose a *nix flavor for that as well.

=====================
One of the biggest problems I've noticed is that people want one OS that does it all...and that ain't happenin'.

You choose the OS for the job you want to do.


Oh, and WM, if 2 "computer techs," couldn't get your machine online, then they aren't real techs. They probably got a 5 day training course, and don't actually know dick about computers.

[Kyobanim]

For graphics or video editing, I'm told Mac is 1k times better, though I don't know this personally, as I'm not in the graphics business.


Ok, let's stab this myth in the heart right now.

I just built a PC machine for a longtime mac user. System to be used as a work machine for art design and 32 track recording studio running Cubase 5.
Dual quad, 16 gb ram, 3 drive raid, blah, blah, blah. 1800 bucks. Since he started using it I've had requests from his artsy friend's to build them one, all mac users.

There is nothing you can do on a mac that you can't do on a pc.

[Irishsquid]

Ok, let's stab this myth in the heart right now.

I just built a PC machine for a longtime mac user. System to be used as a work machine for art design and 32 track recording studio running Cubase 5.
Dual quad, 16 gb ram, 3 drive raid, blah, blah, blah. 1800 bucks. Since he started using it I've had requests from his artsy friend's to build them one, all mac users.

There is nothing you can do on a mac that you can't do on a pc.

That's kinda what I always figured...just assumed maybe there was more "out of the box," functionality built into a Mac? Never could determine what was so special about a Mac for the media stuff...but everybody keeps saying it...just like how much more secure mac and Linux are than windows, and all the other myths out there.

[The Reaper]

I have used both, and I have had trouble with both.

There is a lot more software available for the Windows PC.

I do not buy into the Apple myth, and do not think it is worth the extra money.

YMMV.

TR

[greenberetTFS]

Ok, let's stab this myth in the heart right now.

I just built a PC machine for a longtime mac user. System to be used as a work machine for art design and 32 track recording studio running Cubase 5.
Dual quad, 16 gb ram, 3 drive raid, blah, blah, blah. 1800 bucks. Since he started using it I've had requests from his artsy friend's to build them one, all mac users.

There is nothing you can do on a mac that you can't do on a pc.

K,

That's true,however my wife is very much into graphics and she a has Photoshop PC version running on the Parallels side of her Mac..... :) She also has a Photoshop version on her Mac side and said it's far superior on the Mac side than the PC side....... :rolleyes: She,unlike myself is very computer savoy when it comes to using applications like Photoshop and she said there's no comparison.Mac far out performs the PC.............. ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

[NoRoadtrippin]

Ok, Squid, with respect to any computer knowledge you may have there is a lot more underlying a Mac'c ability to outshine a PC.

First, let's talk the build of the machine. The current MBPs are solid aluminum. Obviously, this makes them much more solid and much more rigid than comparable PCs. Yes, HP has recently released their Envy line which offers a unibody style aluminum construction, but that's about the only one.

How about a glass screen? Or a glass trackpad? Not a lot of PCs (if any) out there with either of those. 7 hour battery? Not a chance on a PC. And I can personally verify 7 hours of usable time with my 13.3" MBP. Its pretty incredible.

Vulnerability? Ok, so you are arguing that Macs don't have anti-virus protection. The issue here is that as of this posting, there is not a single virus out there that has been written to effect OS X. One, they don't have enough market share yet for hackers to care, secondly the image of Mac is simply different. I would wager you won't see viruses for them anytime soon just because they aren't Microsoft.

Ok finally, the major element that makes a Mac more powerful is that they are vertically integrated. To borrow from the Army here...the same way a company main effort accomplishes the BN mission by having the same task and purpose as the BN main effort...so goes the ability of a Mac to compute well. Because the OS is written for a specific motherboard, a specific processor, fan, display, etc. it works much more cleanly and uses its power more effectively. Run the benchmarks. A PC with the same processor and RAM will not accomplish tasks as quickly as the Mac. The integration of software and hardware adds a lot to the Mac that the PC can't keep up with. Also, look at new items like Grand Central Station on Snow Leopard. This multi-threading processing allows the CPU to break down tasks into multiple sections to accomplish them more quickly. Again something that myriad PC builders cannot replicate due to lack of uniformity in machines.

Ultimately, the companies aren't even comparable. Microsoft is a software company. Apple is a hardware company.

[NoRoadtrippin]

K,

That's true,however my wife is very much into graphics and she a has Photoshop PC version running on the Parallels side of her Mac..... :) She also has a Photoshop version on her Mac side and said it's far superior on the Mac side than the PC side....... :rolleyes: She,unlike myself is very computer savoy when it comes to using applications like Photoshop and she said there's no comparison.Mac far out performs the PC.............. ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

If you look back to the origins of this and other Adobe programs, they were indeed written for the Mac OS prior to being written for Windows. While there is probably less of a divide these days, the Mac was (and personally still is) designed to be the more effective machine for graphical tasks.

[The Reaper]

Ok, Squid, with respect to any computer knowledge you may have there is a lot more underlying a Mac'c ability to outshine a PC.

First, let's talk the build of the machine. The current MBPs are solid aluminum. Obviously, this makes them much more solid and much more rigid than comparable PCs. Yes, HP has recently released their Envy line which offers a unibody style aluminum construction, but that's about the only one.

How about a glass screen? Or a glass trackpad? Not a lot of PCs (if any) out there with either of those. 7 hour battery? Not a chance on a PC. And I can personally verify 7 hours of usable time with my 13.3" MBP. Its pretty incredible.

Vulnerability? Ok, so you are arguing that Macs don't have anti-virus protection. The issue here is that as of this posting, there is not a single virus out there that has been written to effect OS X. One, they don't have enough market share yet for hackers to care, secondly the image of Mac is simply different. I would wager you won't see viruses for them anytime soon just because they aren't Microsoft.

Ok finally, the major element that makes a Mac more powerful is that they are vertically integrated. To borrow from the Army here...the same way a company main effort accomplishes the BN mission by having the same task and purpose as the BN main effort...so goes the ability of a Mac to compute well. Because the OS is written for a specific motherboard, a specific processor, fan, display, etc. it works much more cleanly and uses its power more effectively. Run the benchmarks. A PC with the same processor and RAM will not accomplish tasks as quickly as the Mac. The integration of software and hardware adds a lot to the Mac that the PC can't keep up with. Also, look at new items like Grand Central Station on Snow Leopard. This multi-threading processing allows the CPU to break down tasks into multiple sections to accomplish them more quickly. Again something that myriad PC builders cannot replicate due to lack of uniformity in machines.

Ultimately, the companies aren't even comparable. Microsoft is a software company. Apple is a hardware company.

My MBP died of a burned-out drive controller within the first 90 days.

Apple suggested that I send it in to the company for diagnosis and repair, estimated two week turn around. I went to the nearest local Apple store, 75 miles away, and it took me four hours and the entire store management team to get it remedied.

I had a hard drive fail in my Dell, I called, they overnighted a new one to me and paid shipping both ways.

Which company would I buy from again?

TR

[Kyobanim]

The current MBPs are solid aluminum. Obviously, this makes them much more solid and much more rigid than comparable PCs.

Is that why the military uses Toughbooks? All the mfgs are getting these out to market. Really isn't a requirement for a desktop.


How about a glass screen? Or a glass trackpad?
Lot's of PCs have those options available, as well as Laptops. Why on earth would you want a glass screen on a laptop?

Vulnerability? Ok, so you are arguing that Macs don't have anti-virus protection. The issue here is that as of this posting, there is not a single virus out there that has been written to effect OS X.
This doesn't seem to be the case. There are currently a lot of viruses out there to affect the mac. There's just not as many as for the pc. There haven't been a lot until recently.

Ok finally, the major element that makes a Mac more powerful is that they are vertically integrated. Because the OS is written for a specific motherboard, a specific processor, fan, display, etc. it works much more cleanly and uses its power more effectively. Run the benchmarks. A PC with the same processor and RAM will not accomplish tasks as quickly as the Mac.


Ummm, no. A pc with the same processor and ram will smoke a mac on side by side compairison. This is because with pcs you have options. I can put a bigger fan, or multiple fans, seperate cooling systems, etc. in a system.


This multi-threading processing allows the CPU to break down tasks into multiple sections to accomplish them more quickly. Again something that myriad PC builders cannot replicate due to lack of uniformity in machines.


the pc world has been hyperthreading for a long time. Where are you getting your information?

K

MCSE
DCSE
CCNA
MCA SharePoint

[SF_BHT]

the pc world has been hyperthreading for a long time. Where are you getting your information?

He has been drinking the MAC CoolAid...:p

[Costa]

The one problem with Mac that I have experienced as well relates to Reaper's problem. Hardware is not commercially available from any third party vendors. If you would like to keep your warranty, expect to be a slave to Apple for repairs.

[greenberetTFS]

Is that why the military uses Toughbooks? All the mfgs are getting these out to market. Really isn't a requirement for a desktop.



Lot's of PCs have those options available, as well as Laptops. Why on earth would you want a glass screen on a laptop?


This doesn't seem to be the case. There are currently a lot of viruses out there to affect the mac. There's just not as many as for the pc. There haven't been a lot until recently.



Ummm, no. A pc with the same processor and ram will smoke a mac on side by side compairison. This is because with pcs you have options. I can put a bigger fan, or multiple fans, seperate cooling systems, etc. in a system.



the pc world has been hyperthreading for a long time. Where are you getting your information?

K

MCSE
DCSE
CCNA
MCA SharePoint

K,

I was speaking strictly about one specific app....Photoshop! Give me one person(graphics knowledgeable) who would support that the PC version is better than the Mac software version...................:rolleyes::eek::p

Big Teddy :munchin

[greenberetTFS]

He has been drinking the MAC CoolAid...:p

Shame on you Bryan.....Do you own a Mac or have you ever owned one? :rolleyes:

Big Teddy :munchin

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

I'll stick with Mac computers and software! :D

[Kyobanim]

K,

I was speaking strictly about one specific app....Photoshop! Give me one person(graphics knowledgeable) who would support that the PC version is better than the Mac software version...................:rolleyes::eek::p

Big Teddy :munchin

I will pm the name to you if you'd like. Long time graphic artistt who just switched to pc. Works here in orlando.

[dac]

Apple is a hardware company.

This too, is not quite accurate. Apple is a MARKETING company. This is a holy war and nobody does better at recruiting holy warriors than Apple.

1. OMG, the iPhone has apps!!!11. They're late to that game but nobody else advertised as much as them.

2. The original iPod's were garbage compared to other MP3 players and it felt like carrying around a toaster, but Apple convinced the drones otherwise.

3. Mac's don't have security problems! I beg to differ: Secunia Advisories (http://secunia.com/advisories/product/96/?task=advisories). The worst exploit of 2008 was in Safari.

4. Apple is better at graphics. One of the real-world reasons people say this is definitely because Apple monitors generally come with glossy screens. For the price of an Apple I can get dual glass monitors, and monster video cards that will outperform any Apple offering. People that say Photoshop works better on an Apple are injecting some personal opinion. The software is identical on both systems; any ancient roots of Mac-specific code are looooong gone. Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

Personally, I like Mac's because OSX is based on FreeBSD (God's own operating system) but I am platform agnostic; I just like to make shit work. Like Irishsquid said, if anyone has computer questions ask me before going to the geek squad. Maybe we could turn the Knuckledragger forum into tech support. :D

I'm on Bragg all week, but I don't do housecalls.


This multi-threading processing allows the CPU to break down tasks into multiple sections to accomplish them more quickly. Again something that myriad PC builders cannot replicate due to lack of uniformity in machines.


I laughed when I read that.

[NoRoadtrippin]

Alright fine, I am (apparently) drinking the Kool Aid more so than I realize.

So let's just go back to anecdotal evidence. I like my Mac. I like it more than I like my PC. It is easier to use and has features that Windows lacks as far as I am concerned.

I have been running the Windows 7 beta and release candidate for about 10 months now on my PC and now in Parallels, and it is quite a step forward, but I still enjoy OS X a lot more.

Multi-touch trackpad makes my life easier day in and day out. As does Bonjour for setting up printers at work.

Good stuff all around.

[Kyobanim]

This is turning into a mac/pc death match. Probably time to stop before it gets out of hand.

[dmgedgoods]

#

[LongWire]

I Love my Macs. Have I paid through the nose? Yes I have.

I love the features that my Macs provide, Trackpad gestures, Screen layout, intuitive simplicity, aesthetics, Etc....

With my Macs, I appreciate the user experience much more, and long gone are the days where my computer takes control and decides to turn off randomly.

Yes they are expensive, but I have never felt that I didn't get my monies worth, yes it's a niche market. 95% of the stuff I do is compatible, with work arounds for almost everything else I need it for.

I Know what I like, and MS anything really isn't it.

Your mileage my vary...............

[Irishsquid]

What you said...

OK...not too familiar with Macs these days...it's been a while since I've used one. Given the aluminum case, does it actually increase the drop-height of the machine? Also, I can't quite understand the point of a glass display on a machine that is supposed to be durable.

As for Mac running better...well, that was true when Mac used PowerPC, but since switching to Intel, there's really no difference in the processors...

That said, I wasn't trying to get into a Mac Vs. Windows Vs. Linux debate. I was giving the pros and cons of all three OSs...though I will admit, my summary of Apple could be off, as i haven't used them since the Intel switch.

Personally, I seldom run windows...I'm mostly a Linux man.
As far as the vulnerabilities I spoke of, I wasn't even speaking of viruses. I'm talking pure exploits. Flaws in the code, or failure to patch said flaws...Mac is actually behind the power curve on that compared to Windows...but then again, My Linux is probably even further behind.

With Windows, it's more secure BECAUSE it is heavily targeted. With Mac, Unix, Linux, you get what we call "Security through Obscurity," which is not something I want to rely on.

As an aside, they actually DO make antivirus and firewall products for Mac. If I'm not mistaken, Symantec may make a version from Mac...other than that, I'll do some digging, if you want.

Without getting back into the "what is better," debate (they are all better at some things, worse for others.) I can try to address some of the misconceptions regarding Windows/Unix/Linux, though as I said, I'm not too familiar with Mac, so I'll leave that to someone who knows more than me.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Which is better, Glock or Walther?

[LongWire]

Which is better, Glock or Walther?


I've got a Test for that you can run in the privacy of your own house by yourself........:D

I haven't done it myself, so it may be dangerous........;)

[BigJimCalhoun]

With Windows, it's more secure BECAUSE it is heavily targeted. With Mac, Unix, Linux, you get what we call "Security through Obscurity," which is not something I want to rely on.
.
The above is not an argument that I hear that often. I do not disagree, just don't hear it that much. MS is constantly under attack, just like George Bush was whilst he was in office.

[greenberetTFS]

I've got a Test for that you can run in the privacy of your own house by yourself........:D

I haven't done it myself, so it may be dangerous........

LW,

Your good......;) That was something I'd expect Dozer to come up with,but you beat him with this post....:rolleyes:

Big Teddy :munchin