PDA

View Full Version : Bad Toelz


Pages : [1] 2

QRQ 30
05-26-2004, 14:17
A friend sent me these pictures taken at the 50th re-union last fall. This is the Market Strasse and looks exactly as it did forty yrars ago and probably forty years before that.

QRQ 30
05-26-2004, 14:19
Looking the opposite direction. The only change is that vehicular traffic is now restricted.

CSB
05-26-2004, 18:59
What about the quad?
Still standing?
And the Sportsman's Lodge?
And the tunnels?
The pool?
The airfield?

QRQ 30
05-26-2004, 21:36
I haven't been there since 1967. I understand a housing developement company has bought Flint Kaserne and is making it into apartments and Condos. Some of the main building was left in place. BTAAF was turned over to the civilians. Soaring is a big sport in Bavaria what with the thermals from the Alps.

CSB
05-27-2004, 12:21
Thank you.

I enjoyed my short tour there, I thought it was the perfect location for the SFOD(E).

Razor
05-27-2004, 13:47
Never was in Toelz, but man do those pics make me miss Germany! Its getting into fest season right about now, isn't it?

Edited for poor German spelling

larfive
06-17-2004, 12:15
I remember that place very well. I grew up in germany and Bad tolz was one of my earliest memories. To answer your question about the kasern, airfield ect. The airfield is currently in use by commercial airlines. Last time I was home, I saw germany military on the kasern logistics. I didnt recognize any combat arms IE Fahlschemjagers oder Spetzialaheiten.
LarV

Matt01
08-09-2005, 19:11
the flint kaserne is now called the flint center with a county department in it(landratsamt). all walls and fences have been removed. a new ice hockey stadium was built on the east side and there are now some stores and a bank inside the flint kaserne. i'll send some pics.


something totally different, I am looking for this vest: if somebody has a similar vest he wants to get rid of pm/email me. I think it is made by eagle ciras/paraclete. size small or medium.
pic of the vest
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6986/d4t1b5dq.jpg

thank you.

Matt

The Reaper
08-09-2005, 19:16
the flint kaserne is now called the flint center with a county department in it(landratsamt). all walls and fences have been removed. a new ice hockey stadium was built on the east side and there are now some stores and a bank inside the flint kaserne. i'll send some pics.


something totally different, I am looking for this vest: if somebody has a similar vest he wants to get rid of pm/email me. I think it is made by eagle ciras/paraclete. size small or medium.
pic of the vest
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6986/d4t1b5dq.jpg

thank you.

Matt

Matt:

Fill in your profile, introduce yourself, and read the stickies and intros before posting further please.

FYI, this isn't a swap meet.

TR

lksteve
08-09-2005, 20:26
Looking the opposite direction. The only change is that vehicular traffic is now restricted.i suspect they still allow Leonardhifarht to go through...still miss the place...

Razor, if memory serves me, Herbstfest should be cranking up in a week or so, if they still have it (i'm not sure what relevance an international parachuting competition would have without us there)...of course, Oktoberfest is next month...there used to be (and i suspect there still are) several major Schutzen festivals throughout the summer, but fall into winter was a more festive season...

FILO
08-10-2005, 09:37
I didnt recognize any combat arms IE Fahlschemjagers oder Spetzialaheiten.
LarV

The Fallschirmjaeger school, at least in the 1980s, was in Altenstadt, about 40 minutes from Toelz. IIRC Altenstadt was simply an airborne training facility and didn't host any combat arms units. They had a 34 foot tower, a replica from Benning. The only difference was the risers didn 't have any slack, risers and cable! Thus I made sure the package was well stowed.

Airbornelawyer
08-10-2005, 10:56
The Fallschirmjaeger school, at least in the 1980s, was in Altenstadt, about 40 minutes from Toelz. IIRC Altenstadt was simply an airborne training facility and didn't host any combat arms units. They had a 34 foot tower, a replica from Benning. The only difference was the risers didn 't have any slack, risers and cable! Thus I made sure the package was well stowed.
The Luftlande- und Lufttransportschule is still in Altenstadt and is still just a school, at least the last time I was there a couple of years ago.

As for "special units," the main one is the KSK. They are at Calw, which is a short ride from Böblingen, where 1/10 is at now.

A bunch of Bad Tölz pictures over time are here: http://www.usarmygermany.com/USAREUR_City_BadToelz.htm

FILO
08-10-2005, 11:11
As for "special units," the main one is the KSK. They are at Calw, which is a short ride from Böblingen, where 1/10 is at now.


Our good friends at Calw, 3/251 Fallschirmjaegers, hosted my pathfinder team in some SERE training. Suffice to say, they would have done their forefathers proud when it came to interrogation techniques. :eek:

12B4S
08-11-2005, 00:11
Great pics and website. Bad Toelz is a special town and the people are fantastic.
One New Years Eve, I was pulling CQ and this guy walks into the office. He owned a farm five or so miles down the road. He didn't speak any English, except for 'Happy New Year' and handed me a bottle of wine. Explaining that he knew some soldier would have to pull duty on New Years Eve and miss the celebrating with friends or family. We talked for awhile, wished each other a 'Happy New Year' and he went home to his family. I'll never forget that guy.

When I first arrived at Flint, I was living in the Kaserne. In the morning, you'd go to one huge room filled with sinks and mirrors, to another room with toilets and urinals and for a shower to another room down the hall. Felt like you should toss on your ruck, just to make the rounds every morning. :cool:

CoLawman
08-11-2005, 00:27
Razor, if memory serves me, Herbstfest should be cranking up in a week or so, if they still have it (i'm not sure what relevance an international parachuting competition would have without us there)...of course, Oktoberfest is next month...there used to be (and i suspect there still are) several major Schutzen festivals throughout the summer, but fall into winter was a more festive season

Or Razor were you thinking of "Fasching" which begins on November 11th at the 11th hour and the 11th minute. Doesn't end until 40 or so days before lent. Now those were parties!

Razor
08-11-2005, 10:18
Nope, I was referring to the veritable plethora of fests of all sorts that seem to occur in the fall. Sadly, I never participated in a Fasching celebration while I was over there. From the stories, though, it was probably for the best. ;)

12B4S
08-13-2005, 05:00
The Bavarians celebrated aaaaaaalot of 'holidays'. Fasching was a biggin'. As I remember ( through "my celebration help") Was that....... at the end of Fasching, a Bayern male should be able to go down to the Isar, hold his wallet in the river to wash it out. BECAUSE, he had NO money left.

When I celebrated with them........the first part was great, alot of drinking and partying. As I remember, Fasching does have something to do with Lent. (No, I'm not Googling...... there was a time way back when, that the net didn't exist.)

Thing was, I had/have a wallet. Yet, still to this day as then, I don't carry it, nor have I ever put bills in it.

The Toelzers I was with figured since I had no wallet, I'd need to rinse my pockets in the river. Being as it was a once a year Religious custom and they were great friends, I went into the Isar and rinsed and washed my frickin' pockets. It was the third or so week in Nov. Air was cold, the water was cold, after the 'cleansing' it was frickin' FRIGID. But hey. I got free drinks for months afterwards. Not to mention ........other 'stuff'.

I was in my early twenties then. Would I do the same thing 30 some odd years later?

Absofuckinlutley!!!!!!!!!!!

Ammodawg
02-05-2006, 06:34
Is there anyone on the board currently stationed at Bad Toelz? If so please shoot me a P.M. as I am stationed in Germany at the moment and am looking for some information. Thanks much :munchin

QRQ 30
02-05-2006, 06:40
Is there anyone on the board currently stationed at Bad Toelz? If so please shoot me a P.M. as I am stationed in Germany at the moment and am looking for some information. Thanks much :munchin

NO!! BTAAF is a private aur field and Flint Karerne is a housing developmenr.

Ammodawg
02-05-2006, 08:54
Roger that QRQ 30, thank you for the clarification. I will try and track down some 10th groupers here in Germany another way.

QRQ 30
02-05-2006, 09:01
Roger that QRQ 30, thank you for the clarification. I will try and track down some 10th groupers here in Germany another way.

You need to look about 150 mi north.:D

12B4S
02-06-2006, 01:37
NO!! BTAAF is a private aur field and Flint Karerne is a housing developmenr.

A damn shame too!!!!!!!!!

12B4S
04-11-2006, 03:27
OK. Let' try this. Does anybody out here remember what the housing/apartment complex across from Flint Kaserne was called? Hint: Auf Deutsch.......

QRQ 30
04-11-2006, 07:39
OK. Let' try this. Does anybody out here remember what the housing/apartment complex across from Flint Kaserne was called? Hint: Auf Deutsch.......

Auf Deutsch ich weis nicht, aber auf Englisch: "Brownbagger Hill".:lifter

lksteve
04-11-2006, 08:44
dunno that it had a name, but i lived on Am Lettenholz...i believe the units uphill were on Patton Strasse...

12B4S
04-12-2006, 01:32
Auf Deutsch ich weis nicht, aber auf Englisch: "Brownbagger Hill".:lifter

;) When I was there, it was referred to as 'das kinder fabrik'

Where my wife and I lived, were the old SS type quarters.

Sanwald
04-24-2006, 07:16
I drove by Flint Kaserne, or what's left of it in February. I was driving to Lngries to do some skiing on the Brauneck and went by the old kaserne and housing areas. It is a commercial park now and the gate has been removed.

I spent about 3 weeks in Late 2001 in that area working an exercise for 1-10 Back then the housing had been converted into apartments, but the gate was still there. It must have been a great place to be stationed, and the snow this year was incredible. Winter taining right outside your door.

Anyway, if I get down that way again I'll get some pictures and try to post them.

Matt01
05-04-2006, 19:19
A shame that the 1st bat. moved to Boeblingen.

BTW the Kaserne in Lenggries former Luftwaffe is empty now and they are still looking for someone to move into. ;) Perhaps the Army should check that out. It is not far from Garmisch.

PS Lettenholz aka General Patton Strasse is full of foreigners now mainly Turkish and Russians families. One of the cheaper parts of Toelz.

In the Flint Kaserne there is now a building which looks like a snail. It has a bank in it and some medical doctors. They spent millions for it but it is a total desaster. You even can not see it from the street because it is inside the Kaserne.:confused:
picture:
http://www.kreisbote.de/storage/pic/redaktion/wolfratshausenbadtoelz/80343_Schnecke_Toelz_Kaserne__web.jpg

I live outside of Bad Toelz so feel free to ask.

Matt

bost1751
05-05-2006, 00:40
Wow, that doesn't even look like the Flint Kaserne I remember. If memory serves me right, General Patton St was at the top of the hill.

12B4S
05-05-2006, 02:39
Damn!!!!!!!!

Been a long time for me, Yeah, that is in the quadrangle. Not sure, but that flag pole to the left of that thing may have been the same one when I was there, when we stood formation.

Oh this is just NOT right!!!!!!!

12B4S
05-05-2006, 03:15
Hey Matt,
Fill out your profile. I have questions as I'm sure others out here do...........

Thanks

bost1751
05-05-2006, 10:59
Nope, sure isn't right! It down not like the quadrangle I stood and walked across,drove through and so for a few very good years. We gave up great place. My understanding is the kaserne was US property due to we captured it in the war.

12B4S
05-06-2006, 03:01
Yeah bost, It was as I remember, a SS Officer training facility. It's been awhile, since I have tried finding info on the net about Flint. Tried on and off for years. Then again, it's probably just my PC and the internet. I know, I type the right stuff into the search engines. It's right to me anyway. ;) Why the powers to be ever decided to move out of there, I'll never get.

AGONZ67
05-07-2006, 23:46
Yea, I remember the quad. The barracks behind the quad, a few of the building surrounding the quad. Man, those new pictures sure look different. Been about 15 years since I was there. Wasn't there supposed to be a tunnel from the quad to that pond nearby?

12B4S
05-08-2006, 01:55
I was searching for something else. A Place just out of Toelz, I went to alot and became good friend's with the owner, his mom and Oma. Can't remember the name of his place though, but have some idea how I used to drive to it. That and I have a 1:50 000 map sheet.

Anyway, the satellite view is pretty good and shows that Gastropod invading the Quadrangle.

http://www.clasohm.com/google-maps/location-view?location_id=13331

bost1751
05-09-2006, 00:45
Great view. Sure bings back a lot of great memories. Do you recall all the "stuff" that would be found occasionally? My understanding is there are several floors under the main level and they ended up being flooded to keep people out and away from old stuff such as booby traps, weapons etc.

12B4S
05-09-2006, 02:53
Great view. Sure bings back a lot of great memories. Do you recall all the "stuff" that would be found occasionally? My understanding is there are several floors under the main level and they ended up being flooded to keep people out and away from old stuff such as booby traps, weapons etc.


Damm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!t
I just typed alot of response hit enter and....... told me I'm logged off and I can't find all that typing and response bost. I'll try again tomorrow. I'll type it in Word and copy. I did NOT log off and I was typing. I'll beat it. ;) Fought against saying stuff to answering machines, when they first came out. After I got out of the Army, I refused to order through the clown thing at the drive up windows. Also refused to use a puter until 1994. Ok, I've given in to all that to some extent. ;) Still...... there was nothing wrong with the old way......

Jaeger1980
05-09-2006, 07:20
Bad Tölz June 2004:
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz1.jpg
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz2.jpg
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz3.jpg

12B4S
05-10-2006, 01:31
Yes bost, I do. When I was there, I heard that too. There are supposed to be 5 to 6 levels under the Kaserne. Sooooooooo, being us, we tried, when we had the time, to get at them. We got down three levels. The flooded, then sealed levels were 4,5 and maybe six. Yes, because of the supposed booby traps. Perhaps they learned in levels 1 and 2. I dunno. Maybe an old SF urban legend joke. I do know this. The Nazi's were great at underground stuff. My German teacher in Oberamergau, pointed out the window during one class and speaking in German, told us how her husband worked in THAT mountain...... building Messerschmits. (SP) BTW, Flint Kaserne was scheduled for bombing in ’45, December I believe, but the weather was bad.

I knew quite of few locals in Toelz. One of them took me some 30 or so minute drive out of town to a lake. Don’t remember the name of it…… used to . Took me to a place on the shore. There was a cement post about 5’ high, the size of a 4x4. Told me that as the war was coming to an end and we and the Russians were closing in, the Nazis dumped a ton of weapons in the lake at that place. Explained to me that it dropped off steep and deep, 100s of meters. He knew cause his Dad served during the war and was on that detail. I had been diving since ’61……… besides licking my lips….. well, forget the other excitement. Anyway, I would love to dive that spot. Thing is, I couldn’t find it, even if I were there now.

12B4S
05-10-2006, 01:56
Bad Tölz June 2004:
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz1.jpg
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz2.jpg
http://www.oradour.info/images/badtolz3.jpg

Thx for the pics Jaeger. Sind sie in Bayern?

Thing is. Those are the new Flint. To me a desecration of an incredible Historic Facility. Not to mention, how impressed and how much I loved being there. Flint Kaserne never ceased to impress.

12B4S
05-10-2006, 02:02
Hmmmmmmmmm Why do I feel like I messed up that German above?

Jaeger1980
05-10-2006, 05:22
... Sind sie in Bayern?
Yes Sir. I'm in North Bavaria (Franken).

bost1751
05-10-2006, 08:00
Yep; the "old" Flint Kaserne was fantastic. I don't know much of it's history but there is a lot of history to it. Why we gave up a place like that, and we owned it. I am glad I wasn't stationed there when they made the move to Panzer Kaserne. That would be like going from heaven to hell.

12B4S
05-11-2006, 02:28
Yes Sir. I'm in North Bavaria (Franken).

Rather than Google and find a map of Germany, which I have a few of, just not available right now. Let me ask you this. How far from Toelz are you? Driving wise.

Asking for a couple reasons, I'll get to those later. One more question. How often do you get to Bad Toelz?

Thanks..........

12B4S
05-11-2006, 02:30
Yeah bost. I agree. Most the guys out here would to, that were stationed there. The traing we did, was just outside your door.

Jaeger1980
05-11-2006, 07:58
How far from Toelz are you? Driving wise.
206 miles.

How often do you get to Bad Toelz?
I haven't been to Bad Tölz since a few years. But I'll travel through this area most likely in August this year when I'm on my way to Austria... and once more on my way back.

12B4S
05-12-2006, 00:23
206 miles.


I haven't been to Bad Tölz since a few years. But I'll travel through this area most likely in August this year when I'm on my way to Austria... and once more on my way back.

OK. Thanks Jaeger. Lately, I have been on a quest. Trying to remember the name of a place, I used to just about live in, when I wasn't off somewhere else. Problem is, I can't remember the name, neither can my EX. We knew the owner, his mom and Oma. His name was Herbie. His restaurant, bar was east of the Isar. It'll come back to me sometime. :)

12B4S
05-14-2006, 02:04
If you get the chance in August. Think you would have time and look up a name in the phone directory for me? I tried Googling for that, but came up with nothing.

One of the guys on my team was married to a local gal that was born and rasied in Toelz. Her name was Rosie. His name was Ron Brown. He would be long retired by now. Perhaps he settled in Toelz.

Jaeger1980
05-14-2006, 06:22
If you get the chance in August. Think you would have time and look up a name in the phone directory for me? I tried Googling for that, but came up with nothing.

One of the guys on my team was married to a local gal that was born and rasied in Toelz. Her name was Rosie. His name was Ron Brown. He would be long retired by now. Perhaps he settled in Toelz.
I just searched for them on http://www.teleauskunft.de/ and called the german phone directory enquiries - both negative. So there won't be any entry in the Bad Tölz phone directory neither.

Some people just don't want to have their numbers in the public directories. :rolleyes:

I could call the BT inhabitants registration office to find out if they live or lived in the area of BT, if you want.

I could also use nonofficial sources to find them, if you want.

The Reaper
05-14-2006, 09:14
If you get the chance in August. Think you would have time and look up a name in the phone directory for me? I tried Googling for that, but came up with nothing.

One of the guys on my team was married to a local gal that was born and rasied in Toelz. Her name was Rosie. His name was Ron Brown. He would be long retired by now. Perhaps he settled in Toelz.

If it is the Ron Brown with a twin brother named Don, he lives in NC, last I heard.

TR

12B4S
05-14-2006, 22:37
I just searched for them on http://www.teleauskunft.de/ and called the german phone directory enquiries - both negative. So there won't be any entry in the Bad Tölz phone directory neither.

Some people just don't want to have their numbers in the public directories. :rolleyes:

I could call the BT inhabitants registration office to find out if they live or lived in the area of BT, if you want.

I could also use nonofficial sources to find them, if you want.

Thanks Jaeger. I appreciate the time you took to check it out. it was just a thought. I have no real reason for thinking he would retire there. However, I do love the part about using "nonofficial sources" thing. Don't know why, just seem to relate to it. :D

12B4S
05-14-2006, 22:44
If it is the Ron Brown with a twin brother named Don, he lives in NC, last I heard.

TR

Thanks TR. If he had a twin brother, I either wasn't aware of it, or forgot. His full name was... Brown, Ronald W. He was our senior commo guy.

lksteve
05-15-2006, 08:45
One of the guys on my team was married to a local gal that was born and rasied in Toelz. Her name was Rosie. His name was Ron Brown. He would be long retired by now. Perhaps he settled in Toelz.AKA "Charlie" Brown...haven't seen him since i left BT in '83...he was going to retire "soon", but i think he may have stayed on to make E9...

12B4S
05-15-2006, 19:02
AKA "Charlie" Brown...haven't seen him since i left BT in '83...he was going to retire "soon", but i think he may have stayed on to make E9...

Yeah Steve, he was called "Charlie" Brown and Brownie. Did you ever meet his wife?

lksteve
05-15-2006, 19:25
Yeah Steve, he was called "Charlie" Brown and Brownie. Did you ever meet his wife?oh, hell yeah...we were both on the battalion staff for awhile...we got together frequently...good folks...

12B4S
05-15-2006, 22:50
Her name was Rosie right? She was born and raised in Toelz?

lksteve
05-16-2006, 08:59
Her name was Rosie right? She was born and raised in Toelz?Rosie...yup...she born and raised near Toelz...i think it was Greiling, but i may be confusing her with another one of the local lovelies...

12B4S
05-16-2006, 17:14
Well damn! Finally ran into someone out here, that knew someone, I did way back when. :cool:

You're right Steve, They are great folks. I don't suppose, they still had Leon (a St Bernard).

Would be great to find 'Charlie' Brown and get him out here. One of the QP's sent me an email for a Ronald W. Brown. I emailed him yesterday. Not sure if it is Brownie though. I have an old Team pic, I'll scan and send to you Steve.

lksteve
05-16-2006, 22:39
Would be great to find 'Charlie' Brown and get him out here. One of the QP's sent me an email for a Ronald W. Brown. I emailed him yesterday. Not sure if it is Brownie though. I have an old Team pic, I'll scan and send to you Steve.who else could Ronald W. Brown be...? thinking back, could be that Rosie was from Gaissach...never used to get Greiling and Gaissach confused...now, the only drop zone i remember for sure is Karen...i can't remember if Grief was up the road toward Greiling or if it was Edith...:confused:

12B4S
05-16-2006, 23:03
who else could Ronald W. Brown be...? thinking back, could be that Rosie was from Gaissach...never used to get Greiling and Gaissach confused...now, the only drop zone i remember for sure is Karen...i can't remember if Grief was up the road toward Greiling or if it was Edith...:confused:

Can only be one 'Charlie' Brown in SF, married to a local gal named Rosie. But as I remember, she was born and raised in Toelz. Anywhere in the area is close enough. :) I don't remember if any of the DZ's we used even had names. I do remember the one we jumped into the most. It was a farmer's field. Of course, he gave his permission and all and was notified about each jump. The guy had an evil sense of humor however. When he knew we would be 'dropping in' he would choose those days to bring out his 'honey wagon' and well, prep the DZ for us. Pleasant. :D

bost1751
05-17-2006, 00:49
Brad:

That sure sounds like Karen DZ. Great Gueat house on the way back to Flint Kaserne. We always had to ruck back and stop at that guest house everytime. If the Team Sgt wasn't with us, we would have a beer.

lksteve
05-17-2006, 09:53
If the Team Sgt wasn't with us, we would have a beer.if he was with us, we'd have two...:D

never wore serviceable fatigues to jump Karen...you're right, the sick bastard would always spread his liquified cow dung the day of a drop...being DZSO at Karen was another treat...spend several hours out there, taking in the aroma...

bost1751
05-17-2006, 13:43
After Joe Alderman left and Steve Omasta became Tm Sgt we would drink a beer or two then. With Joe it was Spatleze. The honey wagon was well known on Karen. On one jump we even had a guy land on a cow that was laying down. The old girl jump up, kicked him and shattered his leg.

12B4S
05-17-2006, 14:45
Probably was the same DZ bost. Seemed to jump that one more than any other. Only one or two beers? :D

lksteve
05-17-2006, 14:53
Steve Omasta became Tm Sgt we would drink a beer or two then. With Joe it was Spatleze. Spetzi...Spatleze would be noodles...Spetzi was beer and 7-Up (or the German equivalent thereof...
Steve Omasta...haven't heard that name in awhile...probably 25 years or so...:munchin

Razor
05-17-2006, 15:57
I wonder if that's a regional thing, as around Wuerzberg/Schweinfurt, beer and 7-up was called Radler Bier, and usually served to children at fests. Spetzi was some type of combination of cola and orange Fanta sold pre-mixed.

lksteve
05-17-2006, 20:02
I wonder if that's a regional thing, as around Wuerzberg/Schweinfurt, beer and 7-up was called Radler Bier, and usually served to children at fests. Spetzi was some type of combination of cola and orange Fanta sold pre-mixed.you're right...Radler...bost led me astray with his noodles...but spetzi was both a specific and generic term, not unlike coke...it was either cola and Fanta or cola and the house brand citrus drink...radlers were beer and limonade as i recall...if i recall...

12B4S
05-17-2006, 20:08
Yeah it was half Bier and half Limonade. It was also a very popular drink at rest stops and such along the Autobahn.

bost1751
05-18-2006, 00:27
What can I say, I left there 26 years ago. Never could spell German very good. The beer was always the first choice.

lksteve
05-18-2006, 08:45
The beer was always the first choice.amen...:D

Razor
05-18-2006, 09:24
Bottom line, any of that beer is good! :lifter If only I could get posted there again (nothing like foreign travel on Uncle Sugar's dime).

bost1751
05-18-2006, 13:56
Yep, retirement sucks for that reason, no free travel!

mike-munich
08-04-2006, 01:47
PMFJI, Brad thought it might be a good idea to bump this thread up.
My relation to 10th SF is in my profile, Brad has a little more detailed info, names and photos from Tölz. Feel free to ask !

Spetzi...Spatleze would be noodles...Spetzi was beer and 7-Up (or the German equivalent thereof...


OK, may I set the record straight ? :p

Spezi: a mix of orange lemonade and coke (my wifes favorite)
Spätzle: the noodle specialty from Baden-Württemberg (also copied in Bavaria)
Spätlese: "late collect" of grapes that saw the first frost. Thus the stuff is awful sweet and gives you a headache (well, at least after two or three .75 Liter bottles):eek: I´m more the Riesling type.
7up and beer is a RADLER, 7up and Weissbier is a RUSSE (Russky, I don´t know why they called that a Russian...:confused: ).

Last but not least the bad news:

Flint Kaserne is a shopping mall now. :mad:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3935/flintcenterkv7.jpg

For those of you who understand German:

In Bad Tölz ist, auf einer Fläche von ca. 25 ha, aus der ehemaligen amerikanischen Flint-Kaserne ein hochmodernes, leistungsfähiges Wirtschaftszentrum für Dienstleistung, Handel, Gewerbe, Behörden und Arztpraxen entstanden.

Das neu gestaltete Areal ist geprägt von der Karreeform des ehemaligen Kasernengebäudes (vormals Basis der "Green Berets") und der außergewöhnlichen Spiral-Architektur im Innenbereich des Gevierts.

Das Flintcenter liegt verkehrsgünstig am nördlichen Stadtrand von Bad Tölz und ist bequem mit öffentlichen Verkehrsmitteln oder dem privaten PKW zu erreichen (mehrere hundert Parkplätze direkt auf dem Areal). Der Bahnhof ist zu Fuss ca. 5 Minuten entfernt.

In der Peripherie finden sich vielzählige Einkaufsmöglichkeiten, die Hacker-Pschorr-Eisarena, das Tölzer Hallenbad, der Skaterpark, sowie der Golfplatz.

12B4S
08-04-2006, 02:02
Ausgezeichnet Mike.

Mike, yearrrrrrrrs ago was taken under an A Team's wing over there. I'll let him explain the details. ;)

Mike, when you have the chance. Tell us about the apartment complex across from Flint. The one, that when I was there was called the 'Kinder Fabrik" All these guys know of it.

mike-munich
08-04-2006, 02:23
Ausgezeichnet Mike.

Mike, yearrrrrrrrs ago was taken under an A Team's wing over there. I'll let him explain the details. ;)

Mike, when you have the chance. Tell us about the apartment complex across from Flint. The one, that when I was there was called the 'Kinder Fabrik" All these guys know of it.

Dankeschön Brad !

Years ago... Yes, like 15,16,17... Damn, I miss those days. :(

The housing area. Don´t get me there... :mad: It´s a problem spot for the Bad Tölz Polizei now. The Kinderfabrik is now a refugee-Kinder Fabrik. After the wars in Yugoslavia and the middle east it´s full of Kosovos, Albanians, Iraqis and other nationalities known for causing problems.

I drive/ride by there all the time and it´s sad to see what happend, to both the Kaserne and the housing area...:(

12B4S
08-04-2006, 02:28
I know the feelings I had, when you first told me about that Mike. There are alot of others on here that served there. I believe they will feel the same.

mike-munich
08-04-2006, 02:54
I know the feelings I had, when you first told me about that Mike. There are alot of others on here that served there. I believe they will feel the same.

Brad, wait until you see it... I guess it will take more than one Fass of Bier to kill the pain...:(

Aoresteen
08-04-2006, 21:05
Greast thread! Yes, DZ Karen was a crap fest to jump into. That's where I got my German jump wings in a T-10 and busted my butt hard. The German JM would ask us, "Is your gear OK?" We'd say OK and off we went, no JM check! We did 5 (3?) jumps in a day and the winds were high. Gave new meaning to "running with the wind"!

DZ Snowy was my favorite winter DZ. We'd kick an achio sled with our skis in it and ski off the DZ.

I forget the name of the DZ that was right behind the kaserne; it was kind of a boggy area. We were jumping out of a Huey and Davey Pills caught a thermal and it took him over the mountian. Tiny Young was the 4th man out , I was 7th. I had a delayed opening and beat Tiny to the ground:eek: . Chief Harrison was on the DZ and laughed his azz off at me!

I hadn't heard Omasta's name in 22 years either.

Yesterday I downloaded Google Earth and looked at arial shots of Tölz. Amazing! Try it! I couldn't find the Elbach run trails though.

12B4S
08-06-2006, 02:05
DZ Karen WAS a crap fest to jump into. There were times when I was first guy in the door. I swear, as the farmer shut off the valve to his honey wagon, I saw a very proud smirk. :D

Even when I was there, That area was popular for Soaring. Mountains, updrafts, thermals, downdrafts, winds from whatever direction. There were more than a few times some guy cut below me and swiped my air. Then again, it wasn't all that strange to look up at your canopy and see boot prints running across it. Sometimes they were my boots on another guy's chute. But when that wind gauge is read wrong coupled with the gusts. Holy crap!! Not to mention the various barbed wire fence lines. Did make for a great night at the NCO club though.

I've been using that Google earth deal for Toelz for a couple of weeks. Looking for an old friend. Well his Gasthof. Mike has been helping me out over there. I'll look back into one of the possibilities that Mike sent me and post it. This Gasthof had their own site. Unnnnnnnnnbelieveable! Mind you, he was going on how I described the lay of the land, for this place. I checked out the menu. :(

Kinda.... ummmmm..... humid there huh? ;) I know, I lived in FL for a few years. Have an aunt in Tampa and a brother in Ft Myers.

Never had 79 degrees and 82% humidity, with a dewpoint of 73 in Toelz at 3AM. ;)

mike-munich
08-07-2006, 00:48
Well his Gasthof. Mike has been helping me out over there. I'll look back into one of the possibilities that Mike sent me and post it. This Gasthof had their own site. Unnnnnnnnnbelieveable! Mind you, he was going on how I described the lay of the land, for this place. I checked out the menu.


Brad, like I said, the best thing would be that we just cruise around the area and look for something familiar...:cool:

That farmer must have lived for a long time (and maybe is still alive). I remember him spraying the liquid BS until they closed Flint in 1991...:D

12B4S
08-07-2006, 04:22
Brad, like I said, the best thing would be that we just cruise around the area and look for something familiar...:cool:

That farmer must have lived for a long time (and maybe is still alive). I remember him spraying the liquid BS until they closed Flint in 1991...:D

LOL Mike, I agree. Either that or he taught his son/s well. ;)

There is a great idea. Just drive around a mile or so west of the Isar and stop in any place that is open and lets us in, til we find that place. :D

mike-munich
08-07-2006, 04:37
LOL Mike, I agree. Either that or he taught his son/s well. ;)

There is a great idea. Just drive around a mile or so west of the Isar and stop in any place that is open and lets us in, til we find that place. :D

Hahaha, yeah, could be his sons too...:D

That´s our best bet, we just try every Gasthof until we find the right one. :cool:

BTW: here is a pic of the knive I received at the closing ceremony in Bad Tölz, along with the Beret I got from the Team and my off-duty .45ACP Delta.

http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=04082006136qj6.jpg

12B4S
08-07-2006, 18:53
Damn Mike! That knife is fantastic. What a great piece of SF/Toelz history to have.

mike-munich
08-08-2006, 00:56
Damn Mike! That knife is fantastic. What a great piece of SF/Toelz history to have.

Thanks Brad ! It ranks #2 as my favorite collectibles from my days in Tölz, right after the Beret...:D

12B4S
08-08-2006, 05:19
Now... You see Mike!? I already knew that. Ya just sucked up some bandwidth from the server deal or something. Jeeeeeeeeeeez ;)

mike-munich
08-08-2006, 05:27
Now... You see Mike!? I already knew that. Ya just sucked up some bandwidth from the server deal or something. Jeeeeeeeeeeez ;)

Bandwidth ? Is that any good ? :confused: I show you how I suck up beer when you come to Tölz ! :D

Richard
08-08-2006, 19:26
Guys,

Although my German is a bit rusty--obgleich mein Deutsch eine rostige Spitze ist--the gist of Mike-Munich's piece on Bad Tolz is:

Bad Tölz is an area of ultramodern, efficient economic centers offering various services, shops, and government and medical offices developed from approximately 25 hectares of the former American Flint Kaserne (army base).

The newly developed area is defined by the quadrangle of the former barracks buildings (once the home of the “Green Berests”) and the unique spiral architecture in the middle of the quadrangle.

The Flintcenter lies easily accessible to traffic on the northern outskirts of Bad Tölz and is comfortably reached by public transport or car (there are more than a hundred parking places located in the area). The train station is reached on foot in about 5 minutes.

One can find a number of investment opportunities in the vicinity, as well as the Hacker-Pschorr skating rink, Tölzer indoor swimming pool, a skate park, as well as the golf course.

...and it sure makes me miss it all...especially the Grünerbrau, Hacker-Pschorrbrau, Rosenheimerbrau, Auerbrau, and Spatenbrau beers.

Richard

12B4S
08-09-2006, 00:29
My German is much rustier, but it works for me Richard.

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 01:27
Well, my brother is car mechanic (Kfz-Meister). He told me that beer breaks up the rust pretty well....:D

Nevertheless, very good translation on Tölz piece !

...and it sure makes me miss it all...

Sir, maybe a "reunion" in Tölz isn´t a bad idea after all. I think Brad starts to put away some funds, right ? ;)

12B4S
08-09-2006, 02:06
That's why I drink beer. I'm just trying to keep my innards from rusting up. :D

The reunion in Toelz next fall is a great idea Mike. Good thing, I know how the folks over there like brewing fantastic beer. I don't have to worry about you sucking it all up. :rolleyes:

12B4S
08-09-2006, 02:20
I was headed to get a beer and a memory popped up. It was because of the talk about Bavarian beer.

Mike or any of you that were in Toelz, can correct me on this. Anyway. Somewhere around 10am, there was this deal called Brot Zeit (Bread time). A mid morning break. I remember through the years I was there, Seeing a case of beer being hauled up on a crane on this, that construction site. :D Damn! I had worked construction before I went in. We had the morning break, all that showed up was the 'Roach Coach'. :mad:

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 02:43
I was headed to get a beer and a memory popped up. It was because of the talk about Bavarian beer.

Mike or any of you that were in Toelz, can correct me on this. Anyway. Somewhere around 10am, there was this deal called Brot Zeit (Bread time). A mid morning break. I remember through the years I was there, Seeing a case of beer being hauled up on a crane on this, that construction site. :D Damn! I had worked construction before I went in. We had the morning break, all that showed up was the 'Roach Coach'. :mad:

That´s why Bavarians drink beer for breakfast. Keeps the brain from rusting away... hahaha. Thank God I´m at least half a Bavarian (other half is Texan, which is just as bad... ).

Brad, affirmative. Some things never change. Brotzeit is still there. Not only at 10am, but also in the afternoon or a cold dinner is called a Brotzeit (bread-time).

When I was 14 I saved up money for my DL, jobbing for construction sites. One of my duties was to get cases of beer (on my bicycle !), bringing the first one to the construction site before school (7am !). Then 2 after school (1300 hours) and 2 or 3 more before "Feierabend" at 1700h sharp. I made $5 an hour back then ! :p By he way, in Bavaria they never ID you when you buy beer, since it´s considered "liquid bread" here.

The reunion in Toelz next fall is a great idea Mike.

Thanks Brad, I think so too. We should do that while we can...;)
I´m sure the surrounding breweries will have plenty of resupply for us...

The traditional Bavarian Brotzeit always contains a beer, or two.

12B4S
08-09-2006, 03:52
No problem there Mike. Just thought of something. When I was there, Toelz had it's own brewery. The beer was called Toelzer. Well.... I can't do the umlaut thing on here. Is it still there?

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 04:00
No problem there Mike. Just thought of something. When I was there, Toelz had it's own brewery. The beer was called Toelzer. Well.... I can't do the umlaut thing on here. Is it still there?

Well, there is (was) Grüner Brauerei in Tölz (bought by Bitburger), they market their beer under "Tölzer Hell" and "Tölzer Weissbier".

12B4S
08-09-2006, 04:04
That´s why Bavarians drink beer for breakfast. Keeps the brain from rusting away... hahaha. Thank God I´m at least half a Bavarian (other half is Texan, which is just as bad... ).

Brad, affirmative. Some things never change. Brotzeit is still there. Not only at 10am, but also in the afternoon or a cold dinner is called a Brotzeit (bread-time).

When I was 14 I saved up money for my DL, jobbing for construction sites. One of my duties was to get cases of beer (on my bicycle !), bringing the first one to the construction site before school (7am !). Then 2 after school (1300 hours) and 2 or 3 more before "Feierabend" at 1700h sharp. I made $5 an hour back then ! By he way, in Bavaria they never ID you when you buy beer, since it´s considered "liquid bread" here.



Thanks Brad, I think so too. We should do that while we can...;)
I´m sure the surrounding breweries will have plenty of resupply for us...

The traditional Bavarian Brotzeit always contains a beer, or two.

I remember it as a morning break thing and afternoon. Mostly the morning one got me. :) You didn't see that in Northern Germany. I checked.

LOL..... great job for a 14 year old. Back then, at that age, That is a great wage. :D

Yup, In some of the family owned Gasthofs I um visited. I saw kids that were 5 or so climbing up on stuff when the parents wern't there for a minute and drinking out of the old collected beer glasses or mugs. Then They would be busted. The old stuff taken away and the dad or mom would draw them some Frisch bier. Just a couple sips. ;)

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 04:08
You didn't see that in Northern Germany.

The northerners are no fun. They don´t like Americans, and Bavarians either. Different mentality, what can I say. :confused:

Back then, at that age, That is a great wage

Hell yes ! in 1982/1983 that was alot of money. Financed my DL and my first 80cc motorcycle that way. Plus the free beer I got from the construction guys...

Yes, drinking age for beer ist 0 here. :D

Sanwald
08-09-2006, 05:02
Mike,

I've heard over the years that there is an "SF" stammtisch in Toelz that's alwys open to SF guys in the area or passing through. Do you know anything about this?

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 05:19
Mike,

I've heard over the years that there is an "SF" stammtisch in Toelz that's alwys open to SF guys in the area or passing through. Do you know anything about this?

Sanwald,

not 100% sure, but it might be the one at Jägerwirt in Gaissach.

SF guys from Tölz and a delegaton from Böblingen get together every year on Allerheiligen (Nov. 1st) there to honor the guys buried on the cemetary there.

Mike

Richard
08-09-2006, 06:15
"Nevertheless, very good translation on Tölz piece !"

Thanks for the compliments. Although I don't get to use my German very much around here in Dallas, I do go on-line to read Stern, Der Spiegel, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, and SueddeutscheZeitung to get a central Euro view of world events.

Richard

mike-munich
08-09-2006, 06:46
Thanks for the compliments. Although I don't get to use my German very much around here in Dallas, I do go on-line to read Stern, Der Spiegel, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, and SueddeutscheZeitung to get a central Euro view of world events.

You are welcome Sir. I was in the DFW area in May this year, seeing a friend in Ft.Worth that is a 79R with the Army. Also renewed my TX DL for another 6 years. I´ll let you know next time I´m there. Maybe you have some time for a Shiner Bock and some conversation in German about the days in Tölz. :D

Firebeef
08-09-2006, 19:54
Ich kann leider auch nicht oefters mein deutsch hier in Northern Colorado ueben. In Colorado Springs gibt es viel mehr Gelegenheiten deutsch zu reden mit die viele Warbrides aus Deutschland. Lese ich auch ab und zu mal Der Spiegel, Stern und andere deutsche Magazinen um die Euro/deutsch perspektiv an die Welt zu verstehen. (wenigstens versuche ich das zu begreifen!!)

Ich war nie in Bad Toelz stationiert, aber als junger Gefreiter habe ich in Bad Toelz bei PCT trainiert. Das war ein totales Suckfest!!

Ich werde gerne mit anderen auf hier auf deutsch unterhalten. Hat jemand auch lust??

lksteve
08-09-2006, 20:43
Ich war nie in Bad Toelz stationiert, aber als junger Gefreiter habe ich in Bad Toelz bei PCT trainiert. Das war ein totales Suckfest!!well, Camp Worden wasn't exactly Five Star accomodations...

if y'all wanna type in German, that's fine with me...but i'll be hanged if i can drink and post, so i'll just read and comment auf Englisch...

Firebeef
08-09-2006, 20:56
yeah it was a suckfest. I'm on duty here, so no drinkin and typin for me!! Have one for me will ya??

lksteve
08-09-2006, 21:00
yeah it was a suckfest. I'm on duty here, so no drinkin and typin for me!! Have one for me will ya??consider it done...i'll repair forthwith and attend to the matter directly...

mike-munich
08-10-2006, 01:48
reden mit die viele Warbrides aus Deutschland

Hahaha, die Kriegsbräute. I like that ! :D

Ich habe oft mit dem Team beim PCT die OPFOR für die GI´s gespielt. Das waren schöne Zeiten... Ich vermisse das alles sehr.

(I played OPFOR with the Team at PCT many times for the GI´s that trained there. Those were the good old days.... I´m missing it alot).

I´ll have a beer on ya´ll tonite ! ;)

Firebeef
08-10-2006, 06:20
Thanks. On our second fire alarm at 0411 I could really feel dem beers you all had for me........ or was that lack of sleep???? Thanks anyways. LOL

mike-munich
08-10-2006, 06:26
Gotta love the graveyard shift Firebeef...:cool:

I will have some Aspirins and Tylenols for you now.

12B4S
08-11-2006, 00:23
Got here late, but knew I had those extra beers last night for someone. ;)

Firebeef
08-11-2006, 19:21
Vielen dank boys!! It's Friday and back on shift, already startin to get crazzee....keep them beers by proxy coming!!

Prosit!

lksteve
08-11-2006, 22:53
Mike or any of you that were in Toelz, can correct me on this. Anyway. Somewhere around 10am, there was this deal called Brot Zeit (Bread time). A mid morning break. i remember it well...workmen had a lunch box with a piece of bread, some sausage and a beer or six...they had a mid-morning break with beer, lunch with a beer or two, a mid-afternoon with a beer...then went home and probably had a couple of beers...a drinking schedule like that would have killed a light-weight like me...

CoLawman
08-12-2006, 00:15
i remember it well...workmen had a lunch box with a piece of bread, some sausage and a beer or six...they had a mid-morning break with beer, lunch with a beer or two, a mid-afternoon with a beer...then went home and probably had a couple of beers...a drinking schedule like that would have killed a light-weight like me...

Certainly there would have been a stop at the Gasthaus to drink a Pilsner before heading home to polish off the homemade brew.:D

12B4S
08-12-2006, 00:44
i remember it well...workmen had a lunch box with a piece of bread, some sausage and a beer or six...they had a mid-morning break with beer, lunch with a beer or two, a mid-afternoon with a beer...then went home and probably had a couple of beers...a drinking schedule like that would have killed a light-weight like me...

LOL..... Yep LK. That was all part of it. I just thought I'd start with morning break. :D But any construction project, that I happened to drive by that was 2 or more stories. The guys didn't bring thier beer with them. It was being hoisted up to them in a case or cases, slung from a crane. Depending how many were working and how big the project. :cool:

True CoLawman. A stop at a favorite Gasthaus was normally in the schedule. There were times, I happened to be there when they came in. ;)

Richard
08-12-2006, 05:33
Guys,

The unions in the Bundesrepublik Deutschland demand the bier breaks in their worker's contracts. The standard is 1 at mid-morning, 2 at lunch, and 1 at mid-afternoon, often provided by their employers under the terms of their union contracts. I found this out as the ACSCMO for Deutschland and Luxembourg when dealing with CSG (Civilian Support Groups for our POMCUS sites) contract issues and a US 3 Star who wanted it stopped. Guess who lost that battle? :D

On a lighter note, :rolleyes: alcoholism remains a major issue for German industry with many companies having to staff at 10-25% higher because of its effects to ensure the quantity of workers necessary for daily operations. And try to fire a worker with a drinking problem.

:munchin

Richard

Firebeef
08-12-2006, 05:50
I haven't been back to Germany since 1999, but it seems to me, the Germans I saw on the job on construction, street repair, etc, ....seems to me the Germans were the guys with the guts, leaning on the shovels, the Turks, Greeks, Yugolslavs, etc were the guys doin most of the work. Stimmt? oder nicht?

mike-munich
08-14-2006, 11:42
seems to me the Germans were the guys with the guts, leaning on the shovels, the Turks, Greeks, Yugolslavs, etc were the guys doin most of the work. Stimmt? oder nicht?


Das stimmt ! But hey, somebody has to carry the responsibility, others have to carry the tools...:p

I did see almost the same thing back in the US, white guys with guts, mexicans doing all the work...:cool:

Richard is right about the unions demanding the breaks. Just our Police union is not very good in demanding such things. We can´t even go on strike here, have a 42 hour week and shifts, while everybody else works 35 to 38 hours and have the right to go on strike...

mike-munich
12-07-2006, 08:49
Gents,

I might as well use this thread instead of opening a new one.

I´ve been talking to Brad (12B4S) about this idea on PM for a while:

I know there was a reunion 2 years ago in Bad Tölz. What about one in 2007 ? Maybe in fall, around the time for Oktoberfest, so those who are interested can attend it ?

This would give us almost one year to plan this, if anybody is interested that is. I can arrange things on my side, inquire about lodging ($ to $$$$), suggest places to eat or activities and forward the intel to the parties involved.

I was thinking about one weekend where we all could get together, talk and so on, since alot of guys that served in the 10th don´t even know each other. Everybody can decide individually how long they want to stay in Germany and what to do and what to see on their trip.
I wouldn´t limit the event to 10th guys, maybe it should be open for all QP´s from this forum who´re interested ?

Maybe some of you can take the chance and see the Group up in Panzer/Böblingen while you are here.

What does everybody think ?

12B4S
12-19-2006, 17:49
It would be great to get back over there. Even greater to get as many people from here to meet up. Right now it is just a money thing. Working on that though. :D

lksteve
12-19-2006, 18:16
i'd love to go back, the wife would really love to go back, but time, scheduling issues, gets to be a problem...and if i can't take my dog, i ain't going...

mike-munich
12-20-2006, 02:08
Brad, I understand the money part. Well, there is one year time, hopefully we get that squared away. :cool:

Sir, I think you can take your dog as a carry-on luggage. Well, if the pooch isn´t a Newfoundland dog like I used to have (150 lbs.) :D

Would be great to bring some of the QP´s back to Tölz....

12B4S
12-22-2006, 14:51
Yeah. We do have the better part of a year. It's definately a top goal.

Better start teaching your dog German lk. It'll help when meeting the fraulein pooches.

lksteve
12-22-2006, 19:04
Better start teaching your dog German lk. It'll help when meeting the fraulein pooches.he's neutered...if i start working on my German, i may have major problems with the distaff member of the household...:D

The Old Guy
01-07-2007, 22:00
Anyone remember "Rudy", who rode around on a small moped.

Rudy had a stroke in the late 70's and his speech was bad but a super nice gentlemen. He led us on a hike that the SS took at the onset of Patton’s forces northward. He was on a U-boat during WWII, was proud of being German but not proud of what Hitler did. By the way, his U-boat was shot out from underneath him two times. LUCKY!

He gave my daughter several gifts when she was very young. He was always so gentle and kind each time he held her.

sg1987
01-26-2007, 15:13
(I played OPFOR with the Team at PCT many times for the GI´s that trained there.


MM,
Would this be Platoon Confidence Training?

lksteve
01-26-2007, 18:35
Would this be Platoon Confidence Training?most likely...

Richard
01-26-2007, 20:32
i'd love to go back, the wife would really love to go back, but time, scheduling issues, gets to be a problem...

I'd love to go back, too...especially for a Grunerbrau. The last time I was by there was in 1993 and the place was deserted. Eerie. However, this summer my wife and I will be in Scotland for a week (I'm of Scots ancestry--clans Hay and Murray) and then on to Barcelona to meet friends with whom we will drive to Pamplona to run with the bulls (Fiesta de San Fermin) before we get any older and need to enter the wheelchair division.

Richard

mike-munich
01-27-2007, 03:58
MM,
Would this be Platoon Confidence Training?

Affirmative. The platoon confidence training used to be at the Sachsenkam training/firing range.

I'd love to go back, too...especially for a Grunerbrau. The last time I was by there was in 1993 and the place was deserted.

Grünerbräu is not what it used to be, they were bought out by another brewery. May I suggest a Kloster Reitberg Weissbier instead ? :D

Yes, 1st Bn. moved up to Panzer in 1991, Flint was deserted then until they put that new shopping mall and offices in there...

A reunion would be great, I came up with that idea after talking to Brad and I posted it awhile ago.

sg1987
01-27-2007, 06:35
The platoon confidence training used to be at the Sachsenkam training/firing range.

I attended the course back in 85. I thought the training was excellent! At that point the cadre were from the Ranger Training Regiment rather than SF. Why did the course change hands? Do you know the history of who taught and when? Just curious.

Richard
01-27-2007, 06:57
I attended the course back in 85. I thought the training was excellent! At that point the cadre were from the Ranger Training Regiment rather than SF. Why did the course change hands? Do you know the history of who taught and when? Just curious.

When I was in Bad Tolz '76-'78, the PCT at Camp Worden was cadre'd by non-SF "Victors" from VII (US) Corps within USAREUR.

Richard

lksteve
01-27-2007, 09:15
When I was in Bad Tolz '76-'78, the PCT at Camp Worden was cadre'd by non-SF "Victors" from VII (US) Corps within USAREUR.when i arrived in '80, the cadre was half Batt-boys and half SF guys with tabs...i damn near wound up out there as a Captain...

SF18C
01-27-2007, 16:10
I attended PCT in '89 with a platoon of 12B engineers...it was a blast and we came very close to maxing the course points-wise. Those were the days!

Combat Engineers = the smart grunts!:lifter

mike-munich
01-28-2007, 04:36
I attended the course back in 85. I thought the training was excellent! At that point the cadre were from the Ranger Training Regiment rather than SF. Why did the course change hands? Do you know the history of who taught and when? Just curious.

When I helped out there the cadre was staffed by operators from Flint Kaserne (about 70%) and volunteers from other units as well as the local police and some Bundeswehr guys from the Kaserne in Lenggries.

FILO
01-28-2007, 20:54
PCT was decent training and when we used to run OPFOR for Purdy it was pretty much all former Batt Boys on his staff. That was in 1985. The Purd was an original and pulled no punches. During the course, I personally watched him relieve the entire NCO staff of a platoon and assigned E-4s in their place. The platoon was a 19D unit from up north and they were pretty dysfunctional once the pressure began to be applied. Never thought I see a soldier dressed in full combat load break down and literally sob in a training scenario on a land navigation course, but it happened. :rolleyes:

The Old Guy
01-30-2007, 15:19
when i arrived in '80, the cadre was half Batt-boys and half SF guys with tabs...i damn near wound up out there as a Captain...

I worked there for a time, under SFC / 1SG Purdy. I had my three tabs at the time, and CPT Leonard Dodd was the boss man when I got there and CPT Byron Conover took over later. We worked very well together and it was a blast.

lksteve
01-30-2007, 18:06
I worked there for a time, under SFC / 1SG Purdy. I had my three tabs at the time, and CPT Leonard Dodd was the boss man when I got there and CPT Byron Conover took over later. We worked very well together and it was a blast.Byron and i commanded mountain detachments in B Company...good man...

sg1987
01-30-2007, 19:29
I worked there for a time, under SFC / 1SG Purdy.

I met the man briefly while at PCT but he left impressions that will last a lifetime. The best NCO I saw during my TIS.

Anyone here read this before?

Purdy on Leadership

by Don Purdy
CSM, USA (Retired)

1) Some senior NCOs are nothing more than bootlickers, who sing the "Army of One" song to their superior officers everyday. Commanders need to hear the good, bad and the ugly, and then be given good solid recommendations. They need their senior NCOs to be TRAINERS. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. DO as the troops do. LEAD FROM THE FRONT. GET IN THE DIRT. This bullshit of "I have done that" is garbage. What you are doing now is what counts. Quit worrying about your next assignment. Focus on your mission now. Your mission is to train soldiers for war, and it's damned hard work. If you do it right you will leave the Army in worse shape physically than when you came in. BE HARD BUT FAIR. You must have MORAL COURAGE.

2) Training is just a word they can't spell. Chief trainer means chief bootlicker. TICKET PUNCHERS.

3) "Moral courage" means telling your commander what he wants to hear these days. I was condemned by my peers and superiors for speaking up, and telling it like it was. I was called a relic from the past that should be put in a glass case. I was focused on training for war not peace. Discipline was my watchword, and the soldiers did not decide what punishment was right or wrong where I served as CSM. I was the Chief Trainer. The buck stopped with me. I participated in all training and lead by example. I was told by a Division CSM that I would never serve above BN level because I was too intrusive. That means I scared commanders with the truth. The next thing he asked was why do you train with your soldiers? The question was shocking, but the answer was simple. When I speak everyone listens. That went over his head like a tent. I carried a rifle not a pistol, and I damn well knew how to use that weapon and my soldiers knew how to use their weapons as well.

4) Combatives are important. Boxing, wrestling, and bayonet fighting are not antiquated. CQB is just what it means, Close Quarter Battle. MOUT, Trench systems, and bunkers must be cleared, and you had better be aggressive and prepared to do bayonet or hand to hand fighting. When others were laughing at my unit for doing these, my soldiers were prepared and understood what "fix bayonets" meant. They were aggressive and well disciplined. Substandard performers were put out immediately. My First Sergeants were not mail men or chow deliverers; they were the Chief Trainers of their companies.

5) We trained for war not peace. Live fires were a priority, and were not canned. Leaders and soldiers had to react. Maneuver elements maneuvered, and had to rely on the SBF not to shoot them but only the enemy. Bayonets were fixed and there were dummy targets for the soldiers engage with those bayonets. Re-supply missions were planned and executed. The battlefield had to be policed of casualties, and equipment by any means available, even if it meant driving vehicles cross country, or physically carrying the wounded. Reload drills, dead gunner drills, and crew drills were executed over, and over, and over again. These were executed day and night. NODS went on your face when the sun went down. They weren't hanging around your neck. We executed live fires at night with NODS in the woods, and the live fires were not canned. Raids, ambushes, search and attack were all executed at night up to company size. This took us over one year to get to that level. Mortars could hit their targets. Units could move silently day or night, and didn't get lost. We did not rely on GPS. WE USED MAPS AND COMPASSES. We lived out of our rucksacks, slept on the ground, in all types of weather from the BN CMDR on down. Frostbite, and heat casualties were not common because we trained to live and fight in the same environment. We did not look like bums. We shaved every day, wore our equipment properly, camouflaged our faces (and hands when necessary), soldiers knew how to maintain themselves and their equipment in the field, and uniformity was important. Soldiers knew what a cat hole was and trash was carried in their rucks, not thrown on the ground or buried for the hogs to dig up. Uniforms were worn properly. The companies received one hot meal a day and understood how to conduct tactical feeding. Our cooks knew how to function in the environment. The combat trains did not live in tents. Their perimeter was secure, weapons were clean, and noise and light discipline were maintained. Cooks, clerks, and all other support personnel knew how to use their weapons, and were trained on basic Infantry skills. Misfires were damn well rare and punishment was swift when it did happen. We suffered no live fire deaths because we trained properly, and used good old-fashioned common sense. We never had the soldiers execute missions they were not properly trained for. The NCOs trained the soldiers; the officers commanded. Our motto was "what ever you do, do it right!" Rate of sick call in the field was almost zero. Morale was high because of good, hard leadership from the front, and realistic, tough training. We even executed a day of live fire training during support cycles. You need a strong CSM who understands discipline and training. He can talk it and walk it.

6) There is no such thing as a good field soldier. You are either a soldier or not a soldier. Everything from appearance to police call is important. This bullshit about my space and my rights is just that: BULLSHIT. Barracks are not his or her home; it's a place for them to live. For saying this I was told I had a mess kit mentality. This individuality BS of "I need my own room" is garbage. We waste more money building these Condos so soldiers can feel good, and not be part of a team; its sickening. They should live in fire team bays. It builds cohesion. Key control alone is a nightmare. "Of course don't bother the poor soldier, just let him live like a pig. When he gets sick or you find out he or she is a drug dealer, blame
it on the NCO Corps even though you, the illustrious battalion commander and brigade commander, said 'leave the soldiers alone in their precious rooms.' " Soldiers are owed a place to sleep, their pay, and the best leadership and training that can be provided.

7) DISCIPLINE is the key. DRILL AND CEREMONY is the foundation of discipline. When I say fall in I want to hear your heals coming together. When I speak, you jump. All ceremonies should be executed with weapons so each unit can execute the 15-count manual of arms. Carrying a card around in your pocket does not develop good morals. Morals are developed through solid leadership not gimmicks and headgear.

8) You want to be politically correct, stay on the block. You want to be different or an individual looking to be a victim, stay on the block. If you're a pervert and proud of it, stay on the block. You want to be a soldier, then become part of a disciplined team. This is not a job, it's a profession. You're here to fight our country's war, not to be a gut-eating, self-serving individual. Senior Officers, and NCOs, I am telling you right now, if things don't change, you will have the blood of soldiers on your hands. There is an enemy out there who is determined, and he is not concerned about individual feelings, or time out. If you don't train them hard now, and demand from them now what in the hell do you think the enemy is going to do to them. If they can't take the heat in training, how are they going to take it on the battlefield? Technology, my ass, soldiers win wars. Be hard on them now or watch them die, or worse, break and run. BE HARD, BUT FAIR! Being fair does not mean they dictate punishment or babying them. A Russian General said "Hard on the training field, easy, on the battlefield". General Patton said "Leading from the rear is like trying to push spaghetti up hill." You want your soldiers to respect you not love you. When they look at you they should see a competent leader. The best compliment I ever received was from a soldier who was PCSing. I was a PLT Sergeant in the First Ranger Battalion. He said,"Sergeant Purdy, I hated to hear you come in, in the morning, and some times I just flat hated you, but I would follow you to hell with gasoline drawers on."

FILO
01-30-2007, 21:37
[QUOTE=sg1987]
by Don Purdy
CSM, USA (Retired)

1) Some senior NCOs are nothing more than bootlickers, who sing the "Army of One" song to their superior officers everyday. Commanders need to hear the good, bad and the ugly, and then be given good solid recommendations. They need their senior NCOs to be TRAINERS. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. DO as the troops do. LEAD FROM THE FRONT. GET IN THE DIRT. This bullshit of "I have done that" is garbage. What you are doing now is what counts. Quit worrying about your next assignment. Focus on your mission now. Your mission is to train soldiers for war, and it's damned hard work. If you do it right you will leave the Army in worse shape physically than when you came in. BE HARD BUT FAIR. You must have MORAL COURAGE.
QUOTE]



He lived #1 and I can personally attest to this. During every cycle, he ran with many of the patrols, even during the winter phases. He was the NCOIC, thus it would have been easy for him to rely on his staff and not have gone out so much, but he did. One late night I watched him strap a ruck onto his front side while carrying a ruck on his back after a student went down as a result of a twisted ankle. He did this while on the final portion of a graded 2 day patrol. He humped those two rucks for the rest of the night though 3-5 inches of snow. Thus he really did walk the talk.

alfromcolorado
04-12-2008, 18:07
Did that reunion that was mentioned in this thread ever execute? I wish I would have known about this site earlier. I live half the year up in Hamburg with my future wife. If it got delayed till this year would also like to know. Maybe I can spirit my butt out of Hungary and show up.

There are a bunch of former 10th guys and attachments that make a ski trip to Europe every year and base out of Gaissach. They stay at that Gasthof mentioned earlier but I don't recall the name. I keep meaning to make it but work gets in the way.

If you are ever in the Toelz area stop by die alte Kaserne for a Weissbier at the Gaststaette zur Flint Kaserne which lies in the area where the NCO Academy used to be. It was cool to drink one more there.

Al

mike-munich
04-14-2008, 02:49
Al,

first of all: Welcome ! :cool:

I was suggesting a reunion thing, but so far it didn't happen. Would be great to see some 10th guys down here again.

Let me know when you get in the area ! Would be great to have a beer or two and talk about the days...

Mike

alfromcolorado
04-14-2008, 12:42
Mike

Well, I got turned onto this site ein Bissle spaet.

Ich war letzes Monat in GAP. Machte Skifahren auf der Hausberg mit miener Verlobte.

Ich fliege nach Hamburg fuer 1. Mai aber wir reisen in Daenemark.

Vielleicht im Sommer.

Al

Al,

first of all: Welcome ! :cool:

I was suggesting a reunion thing, but so far it didn't happen. Would be great to see some 10th guys down here again.

Let me know when you get in the area ! Would be great to have a beer or two and talk about the days...

Mike

mike-munich
04-15-2008, 01:36
Mike

Well, I got turned onto this site ein Bissle spaet.

Ich war letzes Monat in GAP. Machte Skifahren auf der Hausberg mit miener Verlobte.

Ich fliege nach Hamburg fuer 1. Mai aber wir reisen in Daenemark.

Vielleicht im Sommer.

Al

Al,

the "bissle spät" gives away your time in BB... :D

Skiing in GAP, nice ! I like what they did with the Hotel and everything down there. Since I quit skiing about 15 years ago I only see GAP in summertime when I ride my motorcycle around the Zugspitze and into Tyrol (for the cheap gas... LOL).

Sag mir Bescheid wenn Du im Sommer hier bist ! Wir können dann ein Bier trinken gehen. :cool:

Am Freitag fliege ich nach Wichita, KS. um einen alten Freund von der Polizei dort zu besuchen.

Viele Grüsse !

Mike

alfromcolorado
04-16-2008, 11:10
Mike

Yeah, spent a couple of years in BB too!

We didn't stay in the Edelweiss. We stayed in a Gasthaus in Wallgau. I didn't even go check it out. The new Seilbahn on the Hausberg was interesting though. Got rid of the old big cabins and got a bunch of little ones.

Al,

the "bissle spät" gives away your time in BB... :D

Skiing in GAP, nice ! I like what they did with the Hotel and everything down there. Since I quit skiing about 15 years ago I only see GAP in summertime when I ride my motorcycle around the Zugspitze and into Tyrol (for the cheap gas... LOL).

Sag mir Bescheid wenn Du im Sommer hier bist ! Wir können dann ein Bier trinken gehen. :cool:

Am Freitag fliege ich nach Wichita, KS. um einen alten Freund von der Polizei dort zu besuchen.

Viele Grüsse !

Mike

mike-munich
04-17-2008, 02:23
Al,

I didn't even know they put new cabins on the Seilbahn there... I know the aerial tramway, but never took a closer look at it. LOL

Let me know next time you are here ! Wallgau is great, a fellow cop that I used to work with lives there. Nicccee....:D

Jatekos
04-17-2008, 05:29
Al,

Mike here, your new neighbor in Budapest. The family is going to Garmisch in December for some rest and skiing. My daughter is on her second year of snowboarding so she should enjoy the AO. Come up and see us sometime as I really get tired of driving to your location:)

Mike

The Reaper
04-17-2008, 07:54
Jatekos:

Please follow the instructions you received in your registration message (and posted in the stickies) and introduce yourself in the proper place so that we know who you are.

TR

alfromcolorado
04-18-2008, 06:08
Al,

Mike here, your new neighbor in Budapest. The family is going to Garmisch in December for some rest and skiing. My daughter is on her second year of snowboarding so she should enjoy the AO. Come up and see us sometime as I really get tired of driving to your location:)

Mike

Hey Mike

I will get up there one of these days soon. We are going to Szeged this weekend.

So can you get me a special deal at the hotels? :D

PM me on that...

Havin' a good time down here.

Al

SFS0AVN
04-18-2008, 11:28
I have great memories of Toelz and Bavaria. I hope one of these days I'll be able to visit the area again. I know all the changes that have happened to Flint Kaserne.
I learned to ski on the Spitzing in Neuhaus and brown baggers hill Flint Kaserne, ski patrolled on the Brauneck and in Garmisch. Went to Munich American High School (50's) every day on the train. Then I joined the Army and went back (60's) to the 10th for several years. Great times in Toelz and Lenggris.

ArtR
04-21-2008, 11:06
My last trip to Tölz was in 1988 for the 35th reunion. I hope to make a trip there this fall and get a first hand look at the way a piece of History was destroyed.

alfromcolorado
05-22-2008, 15:42
Al,

I didn't even know they put new cabins on the Seilbahn there... I know the aerial tramway, but never took a closer look at it. LOL

Let me know next time you are here ! Wallgau is great, a fellow cop that I used to work with lives there. Nicccee....:D

Mike

Ich, die Frau und Tochter kommen im August nach Bad Toelz.

When things get locked in I will get you my Deutsche Vodaphone Handynummer.

We're looking for a Ferienwohnung in area (Toelz, Lengries, Bad Heilbrunn, usw). Got any reccomendations of a reasonably priced place?

During the day I will be teaching the daughter rockclimbing... Assuming I can still lug this old butt up the rocks... I am sure we could hook up for a Bier oder zwei auch. You going to be around?

Al

mike-munich
05-23-2008, 14:55
Mike

Ich, die Frau und Tochter kommen im August nach Bad Toelz.

When things get locked in I will get you my Deutsche Vodaphone Handynummer.

We're looking for a Ferienwohnung in area (Toelz, Lengries, Bad Heilbrunn, usw). Got any reccomendations of a reasonably priced place?

During the day I will be teaching the daughter rockclimbing... Assuming I can still lug this old butt up the rocks... I am sure we could hook up for a Bier oder zwei auch. You going to be around?

Al

Al,

roger that last. Ich bin im August hier, bis auf ein Wochenende (8.-10. August), da bin ich in Münster auf dem Black Mustang Club Treffen.

Sehr gut, ich habe auch ein deutsches Vodafone Telefon, the minutes are cheaper then.

As for a Ferienwohnung in Tölz/Lengries/Bad Heilbrunn area, I will check with my local contacts there and let you know by PM what I have investigated. What's the exact timeframe we are looking at ?

We will definitely hook up for a beer, oder zwei, oder drei. Ich bringe vielleicht meine Frau mit, als designated driver. Not smart to drive a 370hp Mustang after a couple of Weißbier... LOL

Mike

alfromcolorado
05-24-2008, 05:51
Al,

roger that last. Ich bin im August hier, bis auf ein Wochenende (8.-10. August), da bin ich in Münster auf dem Black Mustang Club Treffen.

Sehr gut, ich habe auch ein deutsches Vodafone Telefon, the minutes are cheaper then.

As for a Ferienwohnung in Tölz/Lengries/Bad Heilbrunn area, I will check with my local contacts there and let you know by PM what I have investigated. What's the exact timeframe we are looking at ?

We will definitely hook up for a beer, oder zwei, oder drei. Ich bringe vielleicht meine Frau mit, als designated driver. Not smart to drive a 370hp Mustang after a couple of Weißbier... LOL

Mike

Ich spreche diesem Wochenende mit meiner Frau, hoffentlich ein Plan zu machen. Ich melde Dich doch bald durch PM.

mike-munich
05-26-2008, 02:10
Ich spreche diesem Wochenende mit meiner Frau, hoffentlich ein Plan zu machen. Ich melde Dich doch bald durch PM.


Roger that last !

alfromcolorado
07-19-2008, 16:17
Mike (and any other 10th Groupers)

I will be in Toelz 8-15 August for some climbing and Spass.

Would like to get together at the Gaststatte zur Flint Kaserne (if it is still there in the old NCO Academy area).

Sent you a PM with Handy number.

Al

mike-munich
07-21-2008, 02:10
Al, roger that last. PM'd you back with cell phone #.

I'm not sure if the Wirtschaft is still there... Will check and advise.

See you in Tölz !

Mike

Edit: Just found out, the Gaststätte is still there:

Augustiner-Gaststätte "Zur Flintkaserne"
Professor-Max-Lange-Platz 5 | 83646 Bad Tölz
Tel: 08041 7934261

Öffnungszeiten: täglich von 8:00 bis 24:00 Uhr, Ruhetag: Montag
Warme Küche: Durchgehend von 8:00 bis 24:00 Uhr


Die Gaststätte "Zur Flintkaserne" befindet sich direkt im Flint-Center, dem ehemaligen amerikanischen Militärstützpunkt Bad Tölz. In diesem gemütlichen bayerischen Lokal, wo sich tagtäglich Jung und Alt treffen, erwarten Sie original bayerische und österreichische Spezialitäten. In den Sommermonaten wartet ein kleiner Biergarten auf Sie.

Anfahrt: Von München aus über die A8 Richtung Salzburg fahren. An der Ausfahrt Holzkirchen die Autobahn verlassen und der Beschilderung in Richtung Bad Tölz folgen. Anfahrt: Von Rosenheim aus über die A8 Richtung München fahren. An der Ausfahrt Irschenberg die Autobahn verlassen und der Beschilderung in Richtung Bad Tölz folgen.

Ron Blanchard
07-25-2008, 05:19
I have a 1937 photo of Toelz if anyone wants it e-mail me.

Conrad Y
11-14-2008, 19:49
I have more...

mike-munich
11-17-2008, 01:16
I have a load of pics, taken over the years.

12B4S
11-18-2008, 03:16
Great pics guys. Like a time machine. Just transports one back as if like yesterday.

mike-munich
11-18-2008, 03:19
Brad, I have a ton of pics. If you care I can put them on a CD and throw 'em in the mail (if your computer works again, that is. LOL).

Mike

The Old Guy
11-18-2008, 04:48
MM,

Throw some dates to those pictures. I was there from 1982 - 1985, the very best assignment in my 29 year career.

mike-munich
11-18-2008, 04:55
TOG,

the photos above are from the Desert Storm timeframe, I do have some older material also that I can't date exactely since I received them from a 3rd party. There is material from the 60's up to the early 90's when Group moved from Tölz to Böblingen.

MM

Conrad Y
11-18-2008, 20:02
Everybody loves patches.

mike-munich
11-19-2008, 01:43
I still have the t-shirt and the sweatshirt with the JST logo printed on it...:cool:

I really liked the 10th Group flash with the German colors. Too bad it's not used anymore.

alfromcolorado
11-21-2008, 20:20
TOG,

the photos above are from the Desert Storm timeframe, I do have some older material also that I can't date exactely since I received them from a 3rd party. There is material from the 60's up to the early 90's when Group moved from Tölz to Böblingen.

MM

Mike

How is it going dude? I THINK I sent you an email after our link up in Toelz. (My daughter to be stills talks about you... Easy dude.)

Anyway, I know someone that would be interested in some old photos. He is doing a non-profit amateur book on the US time in Toelz.

Still got my Yahoo address? Contact me and I will link you two up, if you don't mind.

Al

12B4S
11-22-2008, 21:35
Brad, I have a ton of pics. If you care I can put them on a CD and throw 'em in the mail (if your computer works again, that is. LOL).

Mike

Smart ass!!! :D I guess mine works, it is storage in AZ still. On my daughter's work laptop. It works and if it messes up, somebody that knows what they are doing fixes it. I`d love that CD Mike. I`ll pM you with my new address.

Conrad Y
11-25-2008, 19:55
Found this one.

Richard
11-25-2008, 20:53
A few mementos from my time in Bad Tolz.

Sport Parachute Club patch circa '76 when John Raybon was NCOIC.

B Company circa '77 - CPT Sobichevski, SSG Crain (w/guidon) and SGM Seal + ODAs 12, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.

SFODA-7 team patch made in Augsburg circa '77.

Richard :munchin

mike-munich
11-26-2008, 10:56
Mike

How is it going dude? I THINK I sent you an email after our link up in Toelz. (My daughter to be stills talks about you... Easy dude.)

Anyway, I know someone that would be interested in some old photos. He is doing a non-profit amateur book on the US time in Toelz.

Still got my Yahoo address? Contact me and I will link you two up, if you don't mind.

Al

Hey Al,
nothing much here. So, your daughter is, huh ? I thought she liked the Garson better... LOL. Please tell her "hi" from me... :p

Email has been sent out to you.

10-4. Mike

mike-munich
11-26-2008, 10:59
I`d love that CD Mike. I`ll pM you with my new address.


Brad, PM received, CD will be out in the mail next week. Enjoy ! :D Talk to you soon brother.

12B4S
11-27-2008, 01:47
Brad, PM received, CD will be out in the mail next week. Enjoy ! :D Talk to you soon brother.

Thanks alot Mike, appreciate it. That reminds me, going over to my ex wife's today for Thanksgiving. Now that I'm back here in CO, I'll look for some Tolz pics. she has all the old pictures. Some are in out in albums, but I think there are alot ,ore down packed away in boxes and there are a ton of boxes.

12B4S
11-27-2008, 02:02
Sometime ago I saw some posts referring to the Tolzer beer. Is that brewery still there? I did take a couple of thier mugs with me. The Lowenbrau mug was one from the Munchen Octoberfest. Went with a guy named Doug Matz. As we finished one we 'd strap it to our belts. When we left you could hear us comming a mile away. Had to leave, couldn't fit any more around our waists. :D

Figured since by the time I get back to Tolz, I might have my grandaughter with me, I better start training the kid.

Stras
11-27-2008, 07:04
Gents,

All those old patches that you have attached to your posts are still available in Augsburg. Kalka's is still outside the old Sheridan Kaserne and in business. I stopped in there about a year ago looking for some stuff, and remember seeing all of those.

Stras sends

mike-munich
11-28-2008, 02:00
Brings back memories....:cool:

Stras is right, Kalka is still there. http://www.kalka-stick.de/Products.aspx?c=ba56fb9b-777c-40a9-87dc-171ae5062042 If anyone cares for those patches, PM me. I'm sure I can arrange for something.

Brad, PM sent, CD will be in the mail shortly.

Mike out.

12B4S
12-02-2008, 00:44
Thanks Mike, now i'll check the mail more often......

mike-munich
12-02-2008, 02:59
Brad, my pleasure. Envelope should be in CO. within 4-5 days.

Conrad Y
12-03-2008, 22:51
I took this photo before we were formed-up for the closure ceremony in '91.

Conrad Y
12-03-2008, 22:59
Here is the "Official" closure coin for Flint Kaserne. I traded someone (Chief Patrick from the dive team) for the low number of 9 and I was told that Col. Banks got number 1 or 2. The photos show front, back and the lid of the case it came in.

Hope this brings back memories.

Conrad Y
12-06-2008, 13:57
More Bad Tolz pix.

DrJay
12-22-2008, 00:59
Hello guys
This talk of Don Purdy really brings back some memories. He was the HHC 1sg when I graduated Ranger School in July 86 and arrived at 3/75 at Benning. He was a scary guy from the get-go....

DP: Are you married, Sgt Kennedy?
JK: Negative, First Sergeant.
DP: Girlfriend? Whatever, you should get rid of her...I knew it was over with my last wife when I came home. Even the curtains were gone. Damn woman took EVERYTHING!
(at this point, it is 1630 and he dozes off for a few seconds)
DP (awakening):Mmm, Hooooah.....Who the hell are you, son? (eyeing me)
JK: I'm SGT Kennedy, First Sergeant. I've been assigned to your company straight out of Ranger School.
DP: Hell, son, I'm going to put you in the supply room with Sgt XXX until you get your strength back. I send you to a line platoon now those Rangers will kill you! You married, Sgt Kennedy?
JK (with a stong sense of deja vu): Negative, First Sergeant.
DP: Got a girlfriend? You ought to get rid of her, she'll take everything you got.

"The Purd" was a legend. After I went to B Co, 3d Platoon in August 86 (to Doug Greenway's squad: he would go on to great things as a CSM) he would see me around the 3/75 compound and ask what I though of making all Rangers carry their weapon 24/7, with popup targets scattered throughout the BN area "just to keep the men sharp."
After I became a squad leader (as an E5) he would be at the front gate and go run PT with one of the line company squads, this being his time as 3/75 acting sergeant major. Great guy. We were at Bragg in '87 and Al Lamb and I were flipping a coin to see who would walk safety with him on one of the life fire Hogans Alley SOT ranges. He was hell on wheels with an MP5!

I was at Toelz from October 88 until the Stuttgart move, all my time in A co. I went back to Bragg in August 92, left the army in August 93 and two years later was in medical school.
Those times in Toelz were great, certainly one of the memorable periods of my life. Used to shoot at the rod and gun club a lot, especially with John Welton.
You guys stay safe!
Doc Kennedy

12B4S
12-23-2008, 02:07
Welcome Dr Jay.......

Great photos Conrad. That one of the closing ceremony was a sad day.

alfromcolorado
12-23-2008, 20:02
Some more pictures of Tolz, but more recent. Haven't scanned my old slides yet.

(Damn, slides are outdated these days...)

DrJay
12-24-2008, 18:50
I remember that closure ceremony. I stood next to Al D (from Co C) and thought for sure I would wet my dress green pants b/c he was busting so many jokes, like a ventriloquist, without moving his lips much.
Tolz was a great place, especially for a first assignment in SF straight out of the Q. There must have been 8 or 10 of us that lucked into the assignment. I remember Hartnett, Tokarski, "the Thompson Twins" (Marty and Mike)(no, they were not really twins!), Mike in C Co, and a couple others.
Good times, the best actually.
Dr J

Conrad Y
12-25-2008, 21:20
If I remember right at the closure ceremony the dudes running the music for the PA system accidentally played the long 10 minute-or-so extended version on the German National Anthem. It kept going and going and going. I bet Al D could even run out of jokes during that!

KW9598
12-31-2008, 22:35
great pics Conrad...just saw quite a few of the Toelz boys at the CO Springs Chapt Christmas party. Favorite raffle prize: a rack of Reutberg

sg1987
01-01-2009, 00:41
Anyone here have pics of the camp where PCT was conducted?

JAB10th
01-01-2009, 13:49
Tolz was a great place. I was on 024, we were in the motor pool above the rigger shed. Myself, D Krupp, J Tremell, A Mullen and JW Waters.. A great group of guys..

alfromcolorado
01-02-2009, 11:18
Anyone here have pics of the camp where PCT was conducted?

Wish I did. One of the huts got burned down by a 10th Group guy after the BN moved to Panzer. The Germans charged for damages.

I was through there this past summer and looked for the turn off. In years past there was a "Ortsuebungsplatz" sign up but it was gone too. Not sure if any of THAT history is left anymore either.

alfromcolorado
01-02-2009, 11:22
Tolz was a great place. I was on 024, we were in the motor pool above the rigger shed. Myself, D Krupp, J Tremell, A Mullen and JW Waters.. A great group of guys..

I know a bunch of those guys!! I was on 026 then by the fussball field.

I know where most of them are still except JW.

The Old Guy
01-03-2009, 10:27
Anyone here have pics of the camp where PCT was conducted?

I have a number of B&W's from the early 80's time frame. I just need to take the time to scan them and post of of interest.

sg1987
01-03-2009, 13:50
Please do. They would be most appreciated!

Stras
01-04-2009, 09:16
Wish I did. One of the huts got burned down by a 10th Group guy after the BN moved to Panzer. The Germans charged for damages.


We were staying there during WET, and one of the cooks got a BIG lesson in the emersion heater. The Germans got paid for all the people the building had housed, and all that it might have housed for the next 15 years. I knew about this in regards to animals and crops, but never heard it applied to structures.

The stammtisch is currently at the Jagerwirt in Gaissach. unofficial meeting of SFA Chapter 65 is any sat of the month. Official meeting is the 1st Sat at 1300.

Conrad Y
01-06-2009, 07:03
Tolz was a great place. I was on 024, we were in the motor pool above the rigger shed. Myself, D Krupp, J Tremell, A Mullen and JW Waters.. A great group of guys..

Do you mean JR Waters, the medic?

Conrad Y
01-07-2009, 21:20
I came across this picture of us giving a ski-demo to the Secretary of the Army John L Marsh Jr. who loved to look for excuses to come out to Tolz and Golf or whatever.

This was Jan 89 at the Brauneck, of course.;)
L to R: Chief Spoo, Cpt Anderson, Chief McFarlin, Me (peeking over his shoulder), John L Marsh, Maj Buchmann, Chief Kinney.

CSB
01-07-2009, 21:26
From a CH-47 jump in January 1980.
Right after the first heavy snowfall of the year.

11120

(I don't remember the name of the Jumpmaster).

11121

(That's me on the far right).

11122

drleach
01-09-2009, 13:54
Anyone here have pics of the camp where PCT was conducted?

I went back to visit just a couple years ago and took some pictures. The huts are still there, but pretty run down. PM me if you would like me to send them.

drleach

drleach
01-10-2009, 03:12
For sg1987

Here are a few pictures from PCT when I visited a few years back. The camp area is semi-blocked off, but didn't appear to be off limits. Part of the camp looks like a sand and gravel storage area now. The rifle range was still there, but unused and grown over. A few locals were cleaning up the range house to be used as a place for their band to practice. One of them actually remembered an old colleague of mine from back in 1979-1981 at Toelz. Small world.

drleach

sg1987
01-12-2009, 15:34
Thanks much. Those were great to see.

Seeing the camp like that makes one feel like a relic from a bygone era.:(

alfromcolorado
01-12-2009, 19:22
Thanks much. Those were great to see.

Seeing the camp like that makes one feel like a relic from a bygone era.:(

I am wondering if they are still there now. I passed by on B13 this summer and there was no signage or anything. I didn't catch the turn off, but it was the first time I had looked for it in a long time.

I did go climbing at Bichl though (known as Heilbrunn to the locals) and walked the Brauneck-Benediktenwand trail. Had a nice Apfelstuedel at the Toelzerhaus too.

Damn I miss that place...

drleach
01-13-2009, 01:38
I am wondering if they are still there now. I passed by on B13 this summer and there was no signage or anything. I didn't catch the turn off, but it was the first time I had looked for it in a long time.
...

I think the sign was gone in 2005 when I visited. I missed the turnoff a couple times. It was strange to see everything grown over and falling apart, but I think the most disheartening thing was Flint Kaserne turned into a shopping mall. Seems a bit disrespectful.

drleach

JAB10th
01-13-2009, 08:51
It is sad what they have done to the place and I miss those days of walking through history on the way to the teamroom. But I also miss the people and the area that surrounded that history. Iam glad that I got the chance to be stationed there and experience southern Bavaria.

mike-munich
01-14-2009, 06:59
But I also miss the people

And we miss you guys....

I was at Kloster Reutberg with my g/f last weekend and had a few beers on ya'll. :cool:

alfromcolorado
01-15-2009, 22:33
It is sad what they have done to the place and I miss those days of walking through history on the way to the teamroom. But I also miss the people and the area that surrounded that history. Iam glad that I got the chance to be stationed there and experience southern Bavaria.

It was sad that the US Army/US Government gave it up. They really didn't have to... Well, I believe they could have found a way to keep it at least...

As to disrespectful... Not sure what the Germans could have done with it, especially now that they are venturing out into international military deployments.

The Junkerschule has bad vibes for the Germans and everyone loves to remind them of "those days", even if most of those turds are dead.

alfromcolorado
01-15-2009, 22:34
And we miss you guys....

I was at Kloster Reutberg with my g/f last weekend and had a few beers on ya'll. :cool:

Damn dude, rub it in...

Couple of ladies I know said hello...

I am still trying to get the dickhead who WANTED photos to give me his address...

Hey, PM me about Mustangs in Germany.

mike-munich
01-16-2009, 01:45
Damn dude, rub it in...

Couple of ladies I know said hello...

I am still trying to get the dickhead who WANTED photos to give me his address...

Hey, PM me about Mustangs in Germany.


Damn brother, you know I almost cried when we were sitting there at "Zur Flintkasere" drinking our Augustiners...:(

I will PM you right away with all the intel you need. :cool:

Oh wow, tell the ladies, especially the young one, I said "hi"....:D

The Old Guy
01-16-2009, 11:05
It is sad what they have done to the place and I miss those days of walking through history on the way to the teamroom. But I also miss the people and the area that surrounded that history. Iam glad that I got the chance to be stationed there and experience southern Bavaria.

CONCUR.

The very best assignment (1982 - 1985) in my 29 years of AFS. I miss the beautiful mountains, forests, villages and homes. It was picture book perfect, an enchanting time of my life. Prior to my last assignment in Germany (1998), my wife and I drove down to Bad Tolz and visited the sights. It broke my heart to see the condition of the Kaserne.

At one time, the beauty was beyond belief and that day it was home to a traveling circus and several elephants.

Conrad Y
01-23-2009, 19:30
I hate looking at the new pictures of my adopted home kaserne, I just prefer to remember the way it was.

lksteve
01-24-2009, 10:07
I was at Kloster Reutberg with my g/f last weekend and had a few beers on ya'll.
So that's where that AmEx charge came from? LOL...Next time, have a few beers FOR me...:p

mike-munich
01-24-2009, 15:32
So that's where that AmEx charge came from? LOL...Next time, have a few beers FOR me...:p

Sir, actually I think they prefer VISA and Euro/Mastercard there... But if you don't mind, PM me your card number... :p j/k

Affirmative, I will have those beers FOR you then ! I wish somebody else would have the headache for me the next morning... :cool:

lksteve
01-24-2009, 16:18
Affirmative, I will have those beers FOR you then ! I wish somebody else would have the headache for me the next morning...Can't help you there, Mike...gotta be careful how many folks you are having beers for...BTDT...;)

mike-munich
02-01-2009, 05:31
Can't help you there, Mike...gotta be careful how many folks you are having beers for...BTDT...

Roger that ! After I'm done having all those Reutbergs and Augustiners for you Gentlemen I might apply for a membership with the local AA group (if there is such a thing in Bavaria...;) ).

Just came back from a skiing trip to the Ötztal. Reminded me of the days at Brauneck when some of you had the ski training and I was tagging along...

lksteve
02-01-2009, 11:08
Just came back from a skiing trip to the Ötztal. Reminded me of the days at Brauneck when some of you had the ski training and I was tagging along...Not cool...LOL...oh, for the days when I had a season pass to the Brauneck and was expected to ski every weekend off and several times during the week...Berg Heil...

mike-munich
02-02-2009, 02:39
Not cool...LOL...oh, for the days when I had a season pass to the Brauneck and was expected to ski every weekend off and several times during the week...Berg Heil...

I usually go on the day pass (well, I'm not too far away). It's $37 per day now (ouch, cops don't make much $$$)

Sir, your season pass is around $500 now...:o

Draxlhang anybody ? My skiing equipment is still in my car....:cool:

Ski Heil !

Hartley
02-02-2009, 11:16
Mike, that picture sure brought back some memories - the lift has changed but the slope really hasn't..
Passes? All I remember is the pocket full of coupon books.. a real joy when you had a big class and the lift guy was trying to count 'em all.

mike-munich
02-03-2009, 01:45
Hartley, you are right, the slopes haven't changed in the 26 years I've been skiing the Brauneck. Garland is still my favorite. :cool:

Technology has moved on quickly though, instead of punching your lift ticket they use credit card sized RFID-chip access cards now that are touchless. Pretty neat, no need to take the gloves off at the lift.

lksteve
02-03-2009, 07:08
Sir, your season pass is around $500 now..
They were about $125 back in the day...that was part of a group rate...I think individuals were shelling out about $175...

mike-munich
02-03-2009, 08:38
That's what I call inflation... Maybe it's the price of the RFID chipcards ? :p

JAB10th
02-04-2009, 03:35
Man, looking at all the pictures of Toelz brings back allot of memories.

Conrad, I remember the day of the closing ceremonies. Col Banks was there. It must have been a sad day for him. I saw your picture of the coin for the closing of Bad Toelz and I remembered I had one, so I had to go dig it out.

I would like to say thanks to all of you that have posted pictures, they bring back allot of good memories.

Biff...

Richard
02-04-2009, 10:28
They were about $125 back in the day...that was part of a group rate...I think individuals were shelling out about $175...

Mid-70s we paid something like $45 for a season pass for the family. Loved the pic of the Brauneck and sure do miss it all. My first stab at the Garland included two good turns and a fall which ended when I reached the bottom of that steep SOB. :p I got better and learned to love it...especially when the other slopes turned to nothing but icy mogul fields as your neared the bottom of the runs.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

drleach
02-04-2009, 11:13
My first stab at the Garland included two good turns and a fall which ended when I reached the bottom of that steep SOB. :p I got better and learned to love it...especially when the other slopes turned to nothing but icy mogul fields as your neared the bottom of the runs.

Never got good enough to tackle the Garland, but had great times sitting at the top and watching people slide to the bottom---slick ski suits were the best.

drleach

lksteve
02-04-2009, 12:55
We skied the Garland once a day with rucks...never really liked it, unless there was fresh snow...then it was fun...we tried making it the last run of the day, but realized we could hurt someone, so we made it the run before our mid-morning brotzeit...

csquare
02-04-2009, 14:30
I remember one afternoon coming back down to finish the day, we were busting down the Garland. A few of us were doing alright and some others were nothing but ski and equipment bombs falling down the slope. But one guy hit one of those monster moguls pretty dang hard, in order to stop himself and look around for other falling pieces of equipment. The dang mogul broke off and started sliding down the slope. It look as big as a VW beetle.
Now that was a sight!

mike-munich
02-05-2009, 01:34
I guess that's why I like Garland so much. It's crazy...:p

Ahh, good old days...:(

Conrad Y
02-10-2009, 15:00
If you got enough snow during the ski season a cornice forms above the Garland. It was quite a thrill. I would recommend it to whoever goes out there this year to try it. The cornice seems to be overlooked by the locals every year so it was always virgin for me.
Do you all remember the night skiing we would do where we waited in a hutte of our choice and drank (what else) 'til a certain time then ski down drunk (I mean loose) to the waiting busses. In 1986 the top or second top group made Kamikaze headbands from some sheet and blasted down the mountain in a tuck yelling for everyone to get out of the way. :eek:

Utah Bob
03-28-2009, 17:29
Great old pics gentlemen. Thanks. I've got a bunch from '68 I'll have to get digitized.
I gotta tell ya, that was probably the best time of my life!:D

Utah Bob
04-17-2009, 10:39
Here's an old pic of Flint. (Don't know how to put a thumbnail here)

Flint Kaserne 1968 (http://sassvets.homestead.com/badtolz.jpg)

Ramrod 1
09-25-2009, 10:52
I went back a few years ago, and it was sad to see what they were doing to Flint. At least the Turmkeller was still in tact and operational......

camp upshur
09-26-2009, 11:42
This 1956 link (p43-49) may be of some historical interest:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-1YEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PP1&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

Razor
10-03-2009, 21:14
Pg 46 brought back good memories.

SF_BHT
02-08-2011, 04:25
African American gent who worked and ran the infirmary just above the NCO Club. A medic that worked out, lifted weights, and maintained a locked locker in the uppoer gym where they kept the weights and benches and he kept his own weights in the locker. Am hoping someone may remember him and his name.

He was an E 7

7879formerSFD

Would you Please post your intro as required and fill out your profile before you post again. :munchin

lksteve
02-08-2011, 08:51
Sir, your season pass is around $500 now...damn, I hate getting old...I forgot I'd already posted to this...that happens when I spend the morning shoveling snow off my walk and parking spots...

mike-munich
02-08-2011, 09:08
damn, I hate getting old...I forgot I'd already posted to this...that happens when I spend the morning shoveling snow off my walk and parking spots...
Sir, don't worry about it. ;)

Shovelling snow... I don't envy you. Sunshine over here, and most of the snow melted away. But you know Bavaria, there is more to come before winter is over...:mad:

lksteve
02-08-2011, 09:13
Shovelling snow... I don't envy you. Sunshine over here, and most of the snow melted away. But you know Bavaria, there is more to come before winter is over...:mad:Only two or three inches...and it fell in below zero temps, so it was light and fluffy...makes me want to go ski...but then again, there's that whole lift ticket issue (around $75 per day)...could have been much worse...could have been Sierra cement...that stuff is wetter and heavier than the snow that fell in Toelz...much heavier...

mike-munich
02-08-2011, 09:21
Only two or three inches...and it fell in below zero temps, so it was light and fluffy...makes me want to go ski...but then again, there's that whole lift ticket issue (around $75 per day)...could have been much worse...could have been Sierra cement...that stuff is wetter and heavier than the snow that fell in Toelz...much heavier...


The lift ticket issue is what kept me from going skiing this year. And it got worse with the unexperienced Dutch skiers running us over. If you see the Autobahn with all the cars from the Netherlands one must think it's a country with 350 million people...:D

I hear you on the heavy snow. Gotta hate it...

lksteve
02-08-2011, 09:26
I hear you on the heavy snow. Gotta hate it...Bought telemark skis...haven't used them in a couple of years...I swear, I'll get out this winter...LOL...I shovel snow every few hours during big storms...I know guys that wait until it quits, saying they only want to shovel one...I shovel four times, fifteen minutes a whack...they shovel once...with two or three breaks...and it takes an hour or more...there is no saving effort when it comes to snow shoveling./

mike-munich
02-08-2011, 09:29
Somehow I'm glad that the janitor is doing the shovelling part for me...

Well, winter ain't over here in Bavaria. Maybe I get a half-day pass for me and the HH6 and get the skies out. I blew most of the cash for our tickets to the US of A in october....

lksteve
02-09-2011, 21:39
Maybe I get a half-day pass for me and the HH6 and get the skies out. I blew most of the cash for our tickets to the US of A in october....Found this on the MWR website for FE Warren AFB...I live about 50 miles south of there...


Season Ski Passes Available
It’s not too early to get a great deal on season passes for the 2010/11 ski season. Military discount season passes are available now at ODR for the Loveland Ski Area, Keystone-Arapahoe Basin (Liberty Pass) and Copper/Winter Park/Steamboat (Patriot Pass Plus).

Loveland Season Pass – $149 adults, $119 young adult, $99 child. Active duty, reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Foreign Military and their dependants with I.D.
Liberty Pass (Keystone-A-Basin) – $195 adults, $112 child. Active duty, reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Foreign Military and their dependants with I.D.
Patriot Pass (Copper-Winter Park) – $229 adults, $114 child. Active duty, reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Retired Military, Foreign Military and their dependants with I.D.
Patriot Pass Plus (Copper-Winter Park & 6 days @ Steamboat) – $239 adult, $124 child. Active duty, reservists, National Guard, Coast Guard, Retired Military, Foreign Military and their dependants with I.D.
Monarch – $169 adults, $119 junior (ages 7 – 12). All active duty, retirees and their dependents.

mike-munich
02-10-2011, 02:13
Actually the price aren't bad at all...

Season passes for the Brauneck start at €320 to €410. No discounts apply...:mad:

I think I get me a day-pass for €29 (€26 for senior citizens, but I'm 21 years short of that... LOL).

Enjoy the skiing in beautiful Colorado! I have some friends on the Aspen and Carbondale PD, they told me skiing in the Rockies is something else. Too bad I've been there in summertime. On the other hand, I got to hang out with Razor in the Suffern' Bastarads Tavern in the Springs and see a Rockies game in Denver with Firebeef. :D

Stras
02-10-2011, 12:28
Actually the price aren't bad at all...

Season passes for the Brauneck start at €320 to €410. No discounts apply...:mad:

I think I get me a day-pass for €29 (€26 for senior citizens, but I'm 21 years short of that... LOL).

Enjoy the skiing in beautiful Colorado! I have some friends on the Aspen and Carbondale PD, they told me skiing in the Rockies is something else. Too bad I've been there in summertime. On the other hand, I got to hang out with Razor in the Suffern' Bastarads Tavern in the Springs and see a Rockies game in Denver with Firebeef. :D

The price is free to telemark up the Brauneck and then ski down it.. and repeat..:cool:

It was a challenge finding Tony Hernandez' cross on the back side with the snow in Oct. But we found it nonetheless.

KW9598
02-10-2011, 12:49
Stras...myself and a cpl other guys just posted a few good pics of Tony's memorial site. They've relocated the cross since we were there, well, since I was there at least. "SF Brothers" page in facebook, if you arent in there yet. Its a "private" group

MVP
02-10-2011, 14:38
I know FB is really attractive but the security issues and potential for identify fraud are extreme.

http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32085

http://publicaffairs2point0.wordpress.com/2009/03/18/dont-use-facebook-if-you-dont-want-others-to-know-about-you/

mike-munich
02-11-2011, 01:38
The price is free to telemark up the Brauneck and then ski down it.. and repeat..
Hmm, somehow I prefer the skilift....:cool:

As for FB, it's all a matter of how much information you give up there. Some people post everything about their lifes, and don't even have their privacy settings right...:rolleyes:

MVP
02-28-2011, 16:33
http://armykaserne.com/us/flint-kaserne-bad-tolz/

MVP

cszakolczai
02-28-2011, 20:17
I have a question concerning 10th's original formation. Is it true that some early members of 10th group wore the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab above and "7steps to hell" tab below the 7th army patch?

lksteve
02-28-2011, 20:25
I have a question concerning 10th's original formation. Is it true that some early members of 10th group wore the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab above and "7steps to hell" tab below the 7th army patch?I recall the initial patch was the Airborne Command patch...

cszakolczai
02-28-2011, 22:42
I recall the initial patch was the Airborne Command patch...

I've heard that as well, from what I was told the Airborne Command patch was worn, along with some wearing the 7th Army patch with the Airborne tab. I was speaking about this with a current 10th grouper and he mentioned the same thing as you did. When I asked someone else, they sent me this,

"According to a softbound book titled "Guide to United States Army Special Forces Insignia 1952 - 1987 by Leonard Martin and H.W. Snyder & H.J. Saunders" this combination of 7th Army SSI with white on blue airborne tab was worn by the 10th Special Forces Group (Europe) between 1952 through 1955"

Having said all this, I'm just plain confused, but I really do appreciate the response sir especially so quickly.

ArtR
03-01-2011, 06:57
I've heard that as well, from what I was told the Airborne Command patch was worn, along with some wearing the 7th Army patch with the Airborne tab. I was speaking about this with a current 10th grouper and he mentioned the same thing as you did. When I asked someone else, they sent me this,

"According to a softbound book titled "Guide to United States Army Special Forces Insignia 1952 - 1987 by Leonard Martin and H.W. Snyder & H.J. Saunders" this combination of 7th Army SSI with white on blue airborne tab was worn by the 10th Special Forces Group (Europe) between 1952 through 1955"

Having said all this, I'm just plain confused, but I really do appreciate the response sir especially so quickly.

I was with the 10th Group in 1955 and we wore the Abn Command Patch. I still have my 10th Group Year book from 1956 and all pictures from 1952 forward show only the Abn Command Patch being worn.

Richard
03-01-2011, 09:11
I've never seen a pic nor heard of any 7th Army SSI with Airborne tab being worn by the 10th SFG.

The 10th wore the Airborne Command Patch upon activation at Fort Bragg, NC, on 11 June 1952 and continued to wear it after deployment to Europe in 1953 until it was replaced with the SF SSI which was approved in Aug 1955.

A number of the original 10th SFG Officers also wore their Infantry branch insignia with a number "10" superimposed atop the crossed rifles - but that was never authroized insignia.

The 10th SFG oval (dark green with red border) for the parachutist badge backing was authorized on 19 Sep 52 and was never changed.

The 10th SFG beret flash was approved with the authorization of the beret for SF in Oct 1961.

However, with Operation REFORGER, the 1-10th (which remained in Europe while the majority of the 10th SFG redeployed to CONUS) was authorized a separate dark green oval (without red border) and flash which contained three diagonal stripes of the German national colors (black, red, gold).

Richard :munchin

ArtR
03-01-2011, 09:42
I just talked with a friend who was an original member of the 10th, July 52 to Jan 56. He stated that they never wore a 7th Army Patch.

I don't know where some of the people writing these books get there information. I think they just pull it out of the air, or they are talking to people who just don't know.

cszakolczai
03-01-2011, 12:09
Thanks guys, I'm definitely more inclined to believe all you who've been there and seen it. Thanks for all the replies and information in regards to this. If I come across anymore information I'll post it here. Thanks Richard, ArtR and lksteve. Much appreciated guys.

cszakolczai
03-05-2011, 23:51
Just to update everyone with information I've unearthed with the help of a QP who's really great with research... the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab was worn by early groups who would mesh into LRS type of units in Germany. I can provide a link but I just wanted to reinforce what you all have told me and thank you all again for the help. All of you were a great help in trying to figure out the information. Thanks and I really appreciate it.

FILO
03-06-2011, 08:49
Just to update everyone with information I've unearthed with the help of a QP who's really great with research... the 7th Army patch with Airborne tab was worn by early groups who would mesh into LRS type of units in Germany. I can provide a link but I just wanted to reinforce what you all have told me and thank you all again for the help. All of you were a great help in trying to figure out the information. Thanks and I really appreciate it.

I was with VII Corp Pathfinders out of Schwabisch Hall from 1983-1986 and we wore the VII Corp patch with an airborne tab. We used infantry blue flash on our beret and oval on our greens. The unit was attached to 11th CAG for administrative purposes and was disbanded in the late 80s. Although we were called a platoon, we really were the size of a squad with as few 10 and as many as 18. We had two teams: Alpha and Bravo and our leadership element was usually a 1st LT as the PL and a E-6 or E-7 as NCOIC. I was on Alpha the entire time with the unit. Another distinguished member of this board, CSM Perry D, was my first platoon SGT at the unit and could add additional info or background. Hope this helps.