View Full Version : 2nd Amendment
greenberetTFS
08-16-2008, 10:15
Since this is my mind set,I've decided to pass this on.
"When a government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is big enough to take everything you have"..........Thomas Jefferson
2nd Amendment!
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. (waiting for attack)
The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.
4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'
6. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm.
'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?'
'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'
7. Beware the man who only has one gun. HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
But wait, there's more!
I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. I said I did.
She said 'Well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!'
To which I said, of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets!'
She then asked, 'Are you that afraid of someone evil coming into your house?'
My reply was, 'No not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching fire either, but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are all loaded too.'
To which I'll add, having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having a car in the garage without gas in the tank.
I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
:munchin
AMEN! And pass the ammunition.
We must protect our second amendment rights. If we don't then who will? Certainly not a liberal/leftist media who believes that guns are evil. Are guns for everyone? No. That is the beauty of our constitution. It assures us certain inalienable rights that we can enjoy as long as our rights do not prevent others from enjoying their rights.
ZonieDiver
08-17-2008, 19:23
I lived in the Denver, CO area back in the '88-89 time frame when some nut-case went on a rampage. It ended with him "holed up" in a condo and Arapahoe County deputies, and the sheriff himself, surrounding him. A deputy got shot at the door, and the sherriff drove an SUV through a fence to extricate him. Several people were killed or wounded during the day, which started with the "perp" breaking into a house to steal a car. There was a 911 call from the homeowner, in which the bad guy can be heard breaking into her house over several minutes as she waited for the arrival of the police. Had she had a weapon she knew how to use, all of the day's drama would have ended right there. Alas, she did not.
AMEN to that!
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
-Samuel Adams
"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box."
-Unknown
"Our safety, our liberty depends on preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution"
-Abraham Lincoln
GratefulCitizen
08-17-2008, 20:30
"The 2nd amendment guarantees that the people at large will retain the means to quash any rebellion which may come from their elected/appointed servants."
"The Second Amendment guarantees the rest." This is why it is so crucial that we uphold it to its fullest.
That being said, I could go for some trigger time. Can't wait to build on my SEI M14 receiver! :D
BlackDragon0311
09-22-2008, 15:00
God bless the 2nd amendment. I cant recall her name, but back home in Texas we had a Texas congresswoman who helped in getting the concealed carry law passed...woman had her parents shot infront of her in a denny's by a former employee...she didnt have her gun on her at the time because of not wanting any trouble with the cops. After that she became one of THE biggest pro-gun advocates in the state....we need someone like that in every state legislature, the house, the senate, and in the white house. Remember, guns dont kill people, people kill people :P
~JohnnyBoy
Abu Jack
09-22-2008, 17:22
3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.
4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
The only person responsible for protecting my family is me. So, if the worst case is an individual threatening my family with a gun, I'll have one too... and make the effort to ensure I am ready to use it if needed.
Admittedly the attribution of the quotes to their prospective owners can be called into question but regardless.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/morolen/1221605197827.jpg
Whenever I am asked why I need "x" (big scary rifle gun), I just reply that it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.
D.
Red Flag 1
09-22-2008, 18:23
morolen,
I like it!!
Never would have thought of Gandhi.
RF 1
One of the definitive statements ever written with regards to the second amendment was penned by Sanford Levinson, a Professor of law at the University of Texas Law School. A self admitted card carrying member of ACLU, Professor Levinson presents an argument based in historical reason, defining if you will, what the founders meant by the words “Militia,” and the “right to bear arms” and finally, the 2nd amendments place in society today.
I found it to be enlightening and find myself rereading the essay often.
The Article can be found here:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/embar.html
Sanford V Levinson
W. St. John Garwood and W. St. John Garwood, Jr. Centennial Chair
Professor of Government
JD 1973, Stanford
PhD 1969, Harvard
AB 1962, Duke University
Sanford Levinson, who holds the W. St. John Garwood and W. St. John Garwood, Jr. Centennial Chair in Law, joined the University of Texas Law School in 1980. Previously a member of the Department of Politics at Princeton University, he is also a Professor in the Department of Government at the University of Texas. The author of over 250 articles and book reviews in professional and popular journals, Levinson is also the author of four books: Constitutional Faith (1988, winner of the Scribes Award); Written in Stone: Public Monuments in Changing Societies (1998); Wrestling With Diversity (2003); and, most recently, Our Undemocratic Constitution: Where the Constitution Goes Wrong (and How We the People Can Correct It)(2006). His edited or co-edited books include a leading constitutional law casebook, Processes of Constitutional Decisionmaking (5th ed. 2006, with Paul Brest, Jack Balkin, Akhil Amar, and Reva Siegel); Reading Law and Literature: A Hermeneutic Reader (1988, with Steven Mallioux); Responding to Imperfection: The Theory and Practice of Constitutional Amendment (1995); Constitutional Stupidities, Constitutional Tragedies (1998, with William Eskridge); Legal Canons (2000, with Jack Balkin); The Louisiana Purchase and American Expansion (2005, with Batholomew Sparrow); and Torture: A Collection (2004, revised paperback edition, 2006), which includes reflections on the morality, law, and politics of torture from a variety of disciplinary perspectives. He has taught a course on "Torture, Law, and Lawyers" at the Harvard Law School. He is also a regular participant on the popular blog, Balkinization.
He has visited at the Boston University, Georgetown, Harvard, New York University, and Yale law schools, as well as the law faculties at the University of Paris II, Central European University in Budapest, and the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He is also affiliated with the Shalom Hartman Institute of Jewish Philosophy in Jerusalem. A member of the American Law Institute, Levinson was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2001. He is married to Cynthia Y. Levinson, a writer of children's literature, and has two children, Meira, a member of the faculty at the Harvard Graduate School of Education (after teaching in the Atlanta and Boston public school systems), and Rachel, a lawyer with the American Association of University Professors in Washington, D.C.
'NRA could be brought to understand the real fear that the currently almost uncontrolled system of gun ownership sparks in the minds of many whom they casually dismiss as "bleeding-heart liberals."? '
Jesus, it takes more info to get a gun or a library card than it does too vote, and as we can tell voting is pretty much un-controlled. So what's more dangerous without controls a gun or voting? As for the fear instilled bleeding heart liberals, you fear what you don't know or understand....go visit your local gun range and take some training, go through the process of purchase and then then you can have educated opinion fo the 2nd and the right to carry.
I understand your rant. However, what the essay explores is the right to own based in historical fact and reference. It is in my opinion, the benchmark for all arguments concerning those rights.
It was a good post Penn and I hear what your saying.
As long I as can remember 'The People' were guaranteed the right to have and carry guns, they taught us that in school. My only issue/concern is that you get a bunch of lawyers together and they can pervert/subvert just about anything to suit their needs or wishes.
And in the end the People should make that decision, not lawyers/politicans catering to lobbies and special interests.
Penn --
Thanks for the link. I read it once, but will need to go back to re-read it. Certainly a thought provoking essay.
All --
Talk is cheap.
What are you doing? Are you a member of the NRA or other organization striving to protect the 2nd amendment (as we gun-owners see it)?
In addition to being a member, I used the CFC to contribute to the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund (#10006). Put some money in what you believe. Or write your representatives, local and national.
The defense of our rights will require determination and effort. Sending the NRA some money required little effort on my part. I suspect that greater effort will be required in the future. Action. That is my 'mindset.'
God bless the 2nd amendment. I cant recall her name, but back home in Texas we had a Texas congresswoman who helped in getting the concealed carry law passed...woman had her parents shot infront of her in a denny's by a former employee...she didnt have her gun on her at the time because of not wanting any trouble with the cops. After that she became one of THE biggest pro-gun advocates in the state....we need someone like that in every state legislature, the house, the senate, and in the white house. Remember, guns dont kill people, people kill people :P
~JohnnyBoy
Suzanna Gratia-Hupp (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&pr=goog-sl) testifying on the Hill
I was debating whether to post this in the Library section or here. As I just came across this and haven’t read it, it seemed more appropriate here in this thread. It would be very interesting to see this book debut at #1 on the New York Times bestseller list. Not to mention having it in my personal library. Then there is this fantastic image of the grass eaters, wild-eyed and gnawing on rocks. At any rate, I have pledged to purchase a copy of ‘The Founders` Second Amendment’. Posting the following so you all can check it out and decide if it is something you would be interested in.
http://www.secondamendmentbook.com/
GratefulCitizen
02-13-2009, 21:39
Courtesy of the SAF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk&feature=player_embedded
Doubtful that the MSM would replay such a 911 call.
6.8SPC_DUMP
02-16-2009, 20:30
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - Patrick Henry
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms....." - Thomas Jefferson
"With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'." - unknown
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future". - Adolf Hitler, 1935
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were armed.
The first year results are now in since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
• Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
• Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
• Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
• In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
• While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
• There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns.
http://www.colemantyler.com/gunfacts.php
GratefulCitizen
04-08-2010, 21:02
"Free America" is getting a little more free.
To those living outside FA -- keep up the fight.
PHOENIX — The Arizona House voted Thursday to make the state the third in the nation to allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, sending the governor a bill that would allow Arizonans to forego background checks and classes that are now required.
The legislation, approved by the House 36-19 without discussion, would make it legal for most U.S. citizens 21 or older to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona without the permit now required. Currently, carrying a hidden firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500.
Sen. Russell Pearce, a Mesa Republican who sponsored the measure, said last week that he added changes requested by Gov. Jan Brewer's office, an indication that she is likely to sign it. The governor can sign or veto the measure, or allow it to become law without action.
If the legislation is enacted, Arizona would join Alaska and Vermont in not requiring permits to carry concealed weapons. Forty-five other states require permits for hidden guns, and two states — Illinois and Wisconsin — prohibit them altogether.
Supporters say gun restrictions only affect people who want to follow the rules because criminals will carry hidden guns regardless of the law. Nearly all adults can carry a weapon openly in Arizona, and they shouldn't face additional restrictions when they want to hide the weapon, supporters argue.
"What's dangerous is when they're in criminals' hands, not citizens' hands," said Rep. David Gowan, R-Sierra Vista, a bill sponsor.
Opponents argue legalizing concealed weapons will make it easier for criminals to carry them, endangering police. They also worry the bill would lead to more accidental gun discharges by people not adequately trained in firearm safety.
"We wouldn't give people driver's licenses without requiring training or testing. Why would we give people the ability to carry a concealed weapon anywhere?" said Rep. Steve Farley, D-Tucson.
There are more than 154,000 active concealed weapon permits in Arizona.
Under the measure, Arizonans would still be subject to the background checks federal law requires when buying firearms from a store. People carrying a concealed weapon would be required to tell a police officer if asked, and the officer could temporarily take the weapon while communicating with the gun carrier.
Under the legislation, permits still could be obtained on an optional basis so Arizonans could carry concealed weapons in states with reciprocity agreements. Permits also would be required to carry weapons in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
With the elevation of Brewer to the governor's office, Arizona gun-rights advocates have had a wave of success over the past two years.
The state in 2009 loosened its gun laws to lift a ban on guns in establishments that serve alcohol, although gun-bearers still cannot drink alcohol and establishments can ban firearms.
Brewer, a Republican who took office in January 2009, signed that measure into law. Her predecessor, Democrat Janet Napolitano, vetoed several measures pushed by gun-rights supporters before resigning to run the U.S. Homeland Security Department.
On Monday, Brewer signed two bills loosening gun restrictions. One bill broadened the state's current restrictions on local governments' ability to regulate or tax guns and ammunition.
The other bill declares that guns manufactured entirely in Arizona are exempt from federal oversight and are not subject to federal laws restricting the sale of firearms or requiring them to be registered.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gfwtbrRcA8eL1rCF9qQ56omR-HqAD9EV6OJO0
Defender968
04-09-2010, 05:32
"Free America" is getting a little more free.
To those living outside FA -- keep up the fight.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gfwtbrRcA8eL1rCF9qQ56omR-HqAD9EV6OJO0
I have to say I'm a little conflicted on this one, I believe everyone should have the option to carry if they so choose, but having seen LEO's who carry daily and know the rules, and are still knuckleheads with their weapons I think I favor having folks get a little training before venturing out armed.
I kind of equate it to driving a boat, you don't need a license in SC to drive a boat, and as such less than brilliant people go out and buy nice shinny new floating toys and think hey I can drive a car, how different can it be, and the end result is many of them get themselves into trouble in short order.
If it were up to me I'd simply make it easier/cheaper to obtain a permit, lower the fees associated with the actual permit but I'd maintain the class requirement (military and LE exempt of course).
Just my .02.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were armed.
I'd certainly like to see the source of that bit of unsubstantiated opinion - the Japanese did not invade America for the same reasons the Nazis or the Italians did not invade America - they were simply unable to do so.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
ZonieDiver
04-09-2010, 09:08
believe everyone should have the option to carry if they so choose, but having seen LEO's who carry daily and know the rules, and are still knuckleheads with their weapons I think I favor having folks get a little training before venturing out armed.
That is because a "knucklehead" is a "knucklehead" - with training or sans training.
It is time for responsible people's freedoms to stop being curtailed due to the actions of "knuckleheads"! Hooray for Arizona! As a public school teacher, I may not be able to afford a firearm next year, but it is nice to know I can carry concealed if I so wish.
GratefulCitizen
04-13-2010, 18:44
This issue may continue to grow going into the elections.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14871755
Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff and six other states filed a brief in federal court in Montana on Monday, arguing that the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate firearms manufactured and sold within their borders.
The friend-of-the-court brief seeks to bolster arguments made by the Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA) that legislation passed in that state exempts Montana-made guns from federal taxation, registration, licensing, marking or record-keeping requirements.
Utah adopted similar legislation last session. Tennessee, Arizona, Idaho, South Dakota and Wyoming have done so as well, asserting it as an exercise of their authority under the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
The brief asks that court to recognize that "the 10th Amendment is not an empty promise to the states, but a vital guarantor of rights retained by the states, including the right to regulate purely intrastate activities."
Alabama, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, West Virginia and Wyoming joined in the Utah brief.
The U.S. Justice Department has asked the Montana court to dismiss the lawsuit filed by MSSA, arguing that the federal government has the authority to regulate gun sales under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.
Attorneys for Utah legislators warned that Utah's firearms law was likely unconstitutional. Gov. Gary Herbert grappled with whether to sign it, but chose to do so after he was assured that litigation costs would not be burdensome.
Numerous other organizations also have sought to submit briefs supporting the Montana law. The court has given entities until April 23 to file their briefs. The Justice Department will have until May 18 to file a response.
"With few viable avenues to assert their political will," Shurtleff's brief says, "states that have enacted laws similar to Montana's Firearms Freedom Act are clamoring to restore the proper balance between state and federal government power."