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I would appreciate your thought on this as to what you would consider appropiate.
My wife and I go round and round about "what' the appropiate age to expose a child to firearms.
My dad exposed me to firearms much to my mom's disliken at an early age, by age five I could strip down a gun and put it back together, I knew you didn't point them a people and I knew I would get in deep trouble playing with them.
So from my perspective the earlier the better. They are learning respect, mechanical skills and your spending time with the kids and sharing with them something I enjoy. Best of all those object are out in the open and sneeky curiosity is far lessened.
From her perspective...Columbine.
Paslode
My wife and I go round and round about "what' the appropiate age to expose a child to firearms. I don't remember being "exposed" to firearms any more than I remember being "exposed" to kitchen appliances...or hand tools...or garden tools...guns were always about, never any mystery, no romance associated with them....
Any way, that's my $0.02...
GreenSalsa
08-12-2008, 19:26
I don't remember being "exposed" to firearms any more than I remember being "exposed" to kitchen appliances...or hand tools...or garden tools...guns were always about, never any mystery, no romance associated with them....
good advice...concur
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-12-2008, 19:32
I would appreciate your thought on this as to what you would consider appropiate.Paslode
The only decision that is going to count on this is the one that you and your wife make together. No one here knows your kids or your particular situation to make that determination for you. Hell, for that matter, I don't know you well enough to know whether or not I want you around me with a firearm:D
Team Sergeant
08-12-2008, 19:34
There's senators, congressmen and even presidents I would not "expose" to guns for "lack of maturity".
I think it does have everything to do with responsibility, and if they're responsible kids then it should be no problem.
When you talk to them about drugs and alcohol, talk to them about being responsible with guns also.
All great advice.
My kids know that all guns could be loaded and that guns are not for play. They also know that anytime that they want to handle any of the guns in the house all they have to do is ask and I'll spend as much time with them doing it as they can stand. I'm a broken record about fingers on triggers and muzzle control... even with an empty gun. ("why are you pointing that gun at that wall when you know your mom is in the next room cooking dinner...?" Don't even THINK about touching guns if you have friends in the house if you ever want to have anything but 24/7 work every momenht not in school or practicing a sport...Anyone want to take the chance and see if I'm kidding???
I have a CCW and they see me putting on my pistol as we leave the house..it goes with me ust like I'm taking the car keys. No drama. They asked me one time about it and I told them that it was to protect us if a bad person with their own gun tried to hurt us. That made sense to them and that was the end of that.
I take them shooting as often as we can get to the range or out to our property.
I talk about gun saftey every time I can slip it in. I do it often enough that now I get the :rolleyes: out of both my boys. That tells me that I'm on the right track and probably only have to keep it up for another 5 years or so.
works for us because we have mature kids that are mindful of authority. If not, I might have to come up with a plan B.
The Reaper
08-12-2008, 20:05
My kids, ages 10 and 13, have had guns for over six years now.
They know how to load, safe, make ready, and fire almost every weapon I own.
They also know the firearms safety rules, what can happen if you ignore them, and the serious consequences for violating them.
They are welcome to examine (or fire) every weapon that they can demonstrate competency with, BUT, they also know that the penalty for touching a gun without asking for permission is severe.
I have tested them, and they do not break the rules.
Does your wife think that you should store your car keys or beer under lock and key as well? How about the chainsaw?
TR
longrange1947
08-12-2008, 20:05
I don't remember being "exposed" to firearms any more than I remember being "exposed" to kitchen appliances...or hand tools...or garden tools...guns were always about, never any mystery, no romance associated with them....
Any way, that's my $0.02...
I agree. I remember going "Squirrel hunting" with my Dad, I walked and watched, as far back as I can remember. The same with rabbits. We cleaned the game afterwards we cleaned rifles. My dad used an old J.C. Higgins .22 with scope, which sits not more than 10 feet from me right now. :lifter
At age 7 I got an old second hand 22 long rolling block, not safe with long rifle. I could now hunt with Dad in earnest, after I showed I was safe. He later got me a 12 ga for hunting rabbit and dove. I grew up with weapons all over the house and never had an accident nor did any of my friends, I never heard of a kid getting shot in a firearms accident until after I became an adult and all of this nonsense of "protecting" the kids from guns came about.
Columbine has nothing to do with showing kids gun safety and gun awareness. It had everything to do with kids that were marginalized and made to feel that they had no other recourse. The fact that they were more then half a bubble off plum did not help either. :munchin
We raised 3 daughters who are now in their mid-twenties.
When they were 3 and 4 years old, I filled a gallon milk jug with tomato juice and we went out to the pasture and I gave my talk on weapon safety and that this was not a plaything. I then shot the jug with a 12 guage and it exploded and got juice over us all. We never had any problem with them ever playing with weapons.
They all hunt, shoot high powered rifles and all swear that they intend to give the same demonstration with their children when the time comes.
I do not advise anyone to use this method, but it worked for us.
clapdoc sends.
I don't remember being "exposed" to firearms any more than I remember being "exposed" to kitchen appliances...or hand tools...or garden tools...guns were always about, never any mystery, no romance associated with them....
.
Same with me. I raised my children that way also. One is 15 the other will be 14. They have been shooting and around firearms all their lives. The have both taken hunter safety courses too. The feel the same way about firearms as mentioned above.
Chris Cram
08-12-2008, 23:53
I would appreciate your thought on this as to what you would consider appropiate...
My wife and I go round and round about "what' the appropiate age to expose a child to firearms...
From her perspective...Columbine.
Paslode
WRT - Columbine, and other such...
"Harris' prescription was for Luvox... Luvox is in a class of drugs called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI). Other SSRIs include Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft. An estimated 10 million Americans take anti-depressant medications." http://www.erichufschmid.net/Columbine/Columbine-Bollyn.html
A parent or husband w/a member of the family on the above medications would be neglagent to have an unsecured weapon or power tool in the house...
Before medicating kids parents should try PT, consistant discipline, and love.
I suspect that most teachers that want our kids medicated should address their own issues first.
The Gee-wizz, cool, romance, plaything view of fire arms needs to be eliminated with/or without weapons in your own home. There will be weapons in friends homes... and at school. (TR - do you agree, or am I off on this point?)
I have no fire arms in the house, but I expect that will change before the end of summer.
My son is 10 and my daughter is almost 20. My son is clearly on path to the hunting, fishing, camping mindset...
Good luck.
My wife has mental timelines (at least that is my perception) when things are deemed 'Age Appropiate'. Too many mental health classes and too much faith in child rearing literature. She like things very regimented, very safe. I on the other hand enjoy change and adventure.
My 5 and 7 year old are courtious, respectful, easy going and just all around good kids. You couldn't ask for more.
Despite my verbage I wasn't exposed to firearms, firearms were around the house as long as I can remember. Longranges post is exactly what my Dad and I did together. My Dad only hunted squirrel and rabbitt with a 22, I got to walk and watch, clean guns, clean game and when I proved myself he bought me an old 22 single shot lever action. We had a damn good time. He wouldn't let me have a gun with a magazine until I made every shot count.
Part of my thought on this is what TR mentioned, does your wife think that you should store your car keys or beer under lock and key as well? How about the chainsaw?
The answer is no. One they know better than to play with the keys, two there is rarely beer in the house and when there is it is in an unlocked fridge. As tools go I have lots of tools and everyone is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, the kids try them out but only under my supervision. Tools aren't a bone of contention, but guns are. Either of my Impulse Nailers have the potential to kill and maim at the pull of the trigger. The Impluse Nailers were a cool toy in the kids eyes, then I let them shot some nails in a board. They felt the discharge of gas, the recoil and saw the sharp end of the nail on the backside of the board. The response Wow, Dad that could hurt you! Yeah, that is why you don't play with it I replied.
Jack Moroney made a very valid point: 'I don't know you well enough to know whether or not I want you around me with a firearm.'
My Dad and I went rabbitt hunting with a co-worker of his. The man ran out in front of me as I fired at a rabbit, thanks to my Dads quick reaction pushing my barrell away from the direction of the man, the buckshot wizzed just to the side of his leg. The manhad no idea how fortunate he was, he came within the wink of an eye of being seriously injured or worse.
We never hunted with him again.
I knew better than to be in front of the line of fire, but obviously no one ever taught him that.
My feeling is that whether it is a tool or a gun the more the kids know, the better they wil be prepared to know what to do and what not to do. They will know that if Johnny down the street brings out his old mans gun its not cool, it is time to leave and ther are never returning.
In addition they may find shooting paper and hunting an enjoyable pastime, and they will know how to do it safely.
My wifes comments on Columbine are bogus. Honestly I think it has more to do with how guns and shooting would be preceived at school....personally I could care less what they think.
All in all this is all about doing your job as a responsible parent and your kids are going to get out of it what you put into it.
This is something the wife and I will have to work out. I may have to girt my teeth for awhile because keeping the peace is the No.1 priority:D
I appreciate you taking the time.
Paslode
I never heard of a kid getting shot in a firearms accident until after I became an adult and all of this nonsense of "protecting" the kids from guns came about.
What is interesting to me is this extreme stigma associated with parents owning and storing weapons in their home. This stigma is typically rationalized by the "Protective Parent" out of concern for another's child. The interesting thing about this though is, that same parent typically has no concern about their pool being a greater hazard. I remember comparing the infant/child mortality rates between "home pool drownings" and "at home gunplay". What is interesting is your pool is 100 times more likely to be a cause of death than an at home firearm.
Growing up, my siblings (sisters most especially) and I fired our personal weapons regularly and know them well. Not once did any of my 4 siblings have a single firearm related accident. My brother almost drowned once before the age of 3, at a family reunion, with everyone at the side of the pool! Not to mention my youngest sister had a similiar experience.
I plan on raising my children around firearms and ensuring my daughter has a concealed carry permit in the next couple of years (snug-nose .38 special). I think if anyone should be taught how to use a firearm it should be my daughter, for protection purposes.
Just my opinion.
Alright break over, back to SFAS thread,
Doc Z
I'm having a similar discussion with the wifey right now.
I grew up around guns, and lots of em. She didn't.
I was taught how to use them properly, respect, clean etc... She never was.
I've put countless rounds through them. She's only shot once (it was before me) - despite my pleadings.
I've told her about the pool vs handguns argument. No dice. Basically, she's scared that something could happen to our daughter and that she's safer being ignorant to guns than educated about them.
Currently, my guns reside at a friend's house. :(
Interestingly, we live on a very safe street and there has been no perceived need for "home protection". A few weeks ago, however, I was in the field and there was a drunken "disagreement" down the road involving a young couple. The girl kicked the guy's arse, evidently, and while he was bleeding on the pavement, she promptly passed out very near to our driveway and defecated - soiling both herself and the driveway. My wife had to ask the neighbor to show her how to use my power-washer... :munchin
Since returning from the field, my wife and I have engaged in household armament talks.
(I know I didn't NEED to add the details from the drunken-fight story, but I thought they'd entertain):D
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-13-2008, 05:14
A parent or husband w/a member of the family on the above medications would be neglagent to have an unsecured weapon or power tool in the house...
.
True, but the bitch of this statement is when the parent who owns the gun is a boozer. I know one kid who witnessed his first gun fight under his bedroom window in a quite suburb at age 3 and found the gun the next day in his father's bedroom. That same kid became a target for his drunken father at age 7 who fortunately was too drunk to hit him as he E&E'd through the underbrush.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-13-2008, 05:21
Interestingly, we live on a very safe street and there has been no perceived need for "home protection". A few weeks ago, however, I was in the field and there was a drunken "disagreement" down the road involving a young couple. The girl kicked the guy's arse, evidently, and while he was bleeding on the pavement, she promptly passed out very near to our driveway and defecated - soiling both herself and the driveway. My wife had to ask the neighbor to show her how to use my power-washer... :munchin
Damn, don't you just love Vermont. I believe the basic rule of thumb up here is not too piss off any chick if she has more exposed tattoos than you do or if the total weight of the visible metal attached to her person secured through multiple body piercings exceeds 40 pounds. Of course the corrollary to this rule is that if she has removed all her adornments and the holes are exposed and she makes a hissing sound caused by the air moving through the openings one should make the first shot count.:D
Damn, don't you just love Vermont. I believe the basic rule of thumb up here is not too piss off any chick if she has more exposed tattoos than you do or if the total weight of the visible metal attached to her person secured through multiple body piercings exceeds 40 pounds. Of course the corrollary to this rule is that if she has removed all her adornments and the holes are exposed and she makes a hissing sound caused by the air moving through the openings one should make the first shot count.:D
Wassat???:D
Nothing's better than people-watching on Church Street on a Friday afternoon... You know what I'm talking about... :confused::eek:
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-13-2008, 05:51
Wassat???:D
Nothing's better than people-watching on Church Street on a Friday afternoon... You know what I'm talking about... :confused::eek:
Oh yeah, absolutely!! Having spent three years at UVM as an ROTC instructor I have witnessed that zoo on many occassions-of course that was thirty or so years ago but not much has changed. We come up to the "city" once in a while to experience the grand cuisine, the big box stores, and to renew ID cards and places in Burlington, like the rest of Vermont, seem trapped in a time warp:D
Chris Cram
08-13-2008, 09:11
True, but the bitch of this statement is when the parent who owns the gun is a boozer. I know one kid who witnessed his first gun fight under his bedroom window in a quite suburb at age 3 and found the gun the next day in his father's bedroom. That same kid became a target for his drunken father at age 7 who fortunately was too drunk to hit him as he E&E'd through the underbrush.
Jack, you are so correct.
I have had a couple contracts with Sheriffs Offices up hear in the Northwest.
It really motivates you to meet your kids’ friends, their parents, etc...
Be consistently involved... SA is a job requirement for the job of DAD. :lifter
I've told her about the pool vs handguns argument. No dice. Basically, she's scared that something could happen to our daughter and that she's safer being ignorant to guns than educated about them.
Currently, my guns reside at a friend's house. :(
What's the pool versus guns debate. Drowning scares me silly so I took swimming lessons and as soon as he could bob sent the small child at our house to swimming lessons.
Guns are different story. Kids, boys and girls, are going to be curious about them especially if they are treated as a taboo subject.
I know from experience that if you try to keep your boy from having toy guns he'll use a stick and call it a gun so why not just expose them to the "bad old things" and teach them rules and safety along the way.
If your wife thinks a pool is more of a danger to your children than guns are then she's right.
dr. mabuse
08-13-2008, 12:57
*
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-13-2008, 13:00
I made a bet with some ROTC students back in the day when I was their instructor that anyone could learn how to strip, clean, and reassemble an M-16. But then everyone knows college kids need adult supervision.
The blond kid is my youngest age 7, the lad with his back to the camera is his brother age 9-the date 1975.:lifter
dr. mabuse
08-13-2008, 13:16
Outstanding!
The Reaper
08-13-2008, 13:59
I made a bet with some ROTC students back in the day when I was their instructor that anyone could learn how to strip, clean, and reassemble an M-16. But then everyone knows college kids need adult supervision.
The blond kid is my youngest age 7, the lad with his back to the camera is his brother age 9-the date 1975.:lifter
Hey!
Those kids have necks!:D
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
08-13-2008, 14:01
Hey!
Those kids have necks!:D
TR
Their mom's genetic code makes up for a lot of my failings:D
82ndtrooper
08-13-2008, 14:15
Both of my sons know the proper safety rules regarding firearms. One serves in the USN the other is only 16 but like TR he will not touch a gun unless he's given permission. He too knows how to handle all of my weapons safely.
My ex wife on the other hand is like handing a monkey a gun, not so good. :D