View Full Version : Russia invades Georgia
D9 (RIP)
08-08-2008, 07:34
The breaking news this morning on CNN (I don't know why FOX is talking about Lindsey Lohan with this going on :mad:) is a full on invasion of Georgia by the Russians this morning. The Georgian President was on CNN this morning basically imploring the US to intervene, saying that they are being targeted by Russia for their Pro-American/Western posture. I'm sure he's at least mostly right about that.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
D9 (RIP)
08-08-2008, 07:47
LOL, where are all those kids that played Ghost Recon I? They've already been briefed up on this scenario. Get to the Recruiting Office, slackers.
I just left the Rep of Georgia last week, I was near Tbilisi, supporting Immediate Response '08 .
There is more going on than being reported, as usual!
"These troops that are in Georgia now -- they didn't come unexpectedly," the president told CNN. "They had been amassing at the border for the last few months. They claimed they were staging exercises there and as soon as a suitable pretext was found, they moved in."
Obviously timed to not occur before the US finished a major exercise in the area, would have been bad business to attack while the US was training with the GAF!
D9 (RIP)
08-08-2008, 08:19
Seriously, we need to wake up to the state of the world today.
We need to realize that we are, effectively, a World War. True, we do not face a uniformed national enemy with a nasty dictator to put a face on the entirety of the movement that opposes us. Instead, we are in a struggle with a whole gaggle of petty opportunists. While they may not share a common ideology and uniform, they are united in their opposition to US power - and especially to its projection into their spheres.
We could easily list a few:
1. the obvious first choice - militant Islam - which is not embodied in any specific nation but rather is a cultural trend across North and East Africa, the Middle-East, parts of the Far East and Europe.
2. Russian nationalism - an eclectic blend of nostalgic yearning by the people for the "glory" of the heady days Stalin's eminence among the starving, terrorized masses. There is some kind of general psychological problem with a public that prefers to be a feared "world power" at the expense of their liberty and well-being. And of course there is always a Putin willing to step in and try to make it happen.
3. South American Neo-Marxism - as emblematized by the luminary Hugo Chavez, Left-leaning anti-American regimes are the universal trend in SA save Colombia.
4. China - Olympics aside, every Chinese move towards Liberalism is met with an equal or greater reinforcement of the state. They have been no real help in our enduring stand-off w/ N Korea, instead milking and Realpolitiking the situation for favors as it has suited their interests.
There are others.
We are accustomed to thinking of World Wars as consisting of great power(s) vs. great power(s). We have to recognize that a great power against a pack of small nations, united in their opposition to us, is just as dangerous or more so.
There are those who suggest that we solve this problem be sinking down into the mire and trying to beat these countries at their own game. Play 'em against each other, etc. There are people in this country who are adept at this kind of thing, but as a nation we are not, nor have we ever been, the masters of subterfuge and duplicity that would facilitate navigating the tumultuous water of international diplomacy and intrigue ahead of the likes of a Putin. Most of these heads of state come from cutthroat backgrounds in intelligence or outright crime. We should not play them at their game.
We must re-militarize the way we did in 1941. We must become more dangerous and confrontational with these elements in the world, recognizing that the concept of enemy can transcend the nation-state, be embodied by it, or be a subset of it. We have so dominated one mode of conflict, that our enemies in the world have identified the limitations in our thinking on the matter and exploited our weakness. Either by maintaining deniability at the nation-state level (Pakistan) or by acting as nation-state's under flimsy pretenses when we are fully engaged elsewhere (Russia), we are being bled by enemies who could not withstand the force of our might, but have learned well to operate in the defilade afforded them by our antiquated sensibility and old-fashioned concepts of conflict.
A much larger military is needed, and yesterday. And we have to realize that moves like this most recent one from Russia should be met with immediate, forceful responses.
Just my 0.02.
There are two pipes lines which run through the country. Russia wants to controll them. The west and Russia have been on this path in Georgia for about five years now. Russia made the move because Putin knows in his bones that we can't, but more importantly, won't do anything about it.
TheLion03
08-08-2008, 09:07
Much like SF18C I was there last week as well. As far as we understood from open source stuff the Russians were staging 300+ tanks and troops on the border as well as other elements. The Georgians we were training were much more concerned with getting the rest of thier country back than with being the 3rd largest supporter in Iraq
The fact that the Russians waited until we left does not suprise me. What does suprise me is the statements made by Georgia. In my opinion the Georgians just got alot of help from the US and now felt they could push some of the Russian peacekeepers back without being scolded to much because they have made an honest effort to help the US and join NATO
Chris Cram
08-08-2008, 10:07
The Associated Press
Fri, Aug 8, 2008 (5:33 a.m.)
Georgia's Interior Ministry spokesman says that Georgian forces have shot down two Russian combat planes.
RGR that Lion03...I think the offensive operations (the shelling of South Ossetia) the GAF took immediately following the bulk of the US departure was a calculated move to try and halt the pending invasion by Russia, bolstered not by the training they received but the support that was given by the US. Russia also knew that it would not be wise to attack while over a 1000 US Military were on location. But I feel that they also planned to attack as soon as the US left.
One more point and I will leave it at that...this was a very large exercise with a very long logistical tail. It took over a month to get everything in country. The bulk of US personnel only left on the 2nd and 3rd of August.
TheLion03
08-08-2008, 10:12
AP
"Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt. "
wonder if they hit our beds, the mattresses were stiff anyway.
I am starting to wonder if anyone will figure out WHO started this. Russia says Georgia and vice versa.
Solid Copy, SF18C-
I know that we were not the last ones out by any means and the logistical sections were going to be there for awhile longer I hope they are already pressing out or did so yesterday.
AP
"Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt. "
wonder if they hit our beds, the mattresses were stiff anyway.
I am starting to wonder if anyone will figure out WHO started this. Russia says Georgia and vice versa.
Solid Copy, SF18C-
I know that we were not the last ones out by any means and the logistical sections were going to be there for awhile longer I hope they are already pressing out or did so yesterday.
That is what I heard today...one can only hope they bombed the squaty-potties! So did the GI monster get you too?
TheLion03
08-08-2008, 10:47
Hahahaha those things were terrible nothing worse than having to do deep knee bends in order to use a bathroom. we got smart after awhile and took chiars from the DFAC and cut holes in the seats and stiffened up MRE boxes in the field.
80% of us got the monster we started calling it Stalins Revenge.
This just in…Georgia is pulling 1000 of its troops out of Iraq to redeploy in Georgia!
TheLion03
08-08-2008, 10:54
That is a large scale logistical move. US planes are the ones flying them back and forth. Also they just got one of thier units back from Iraq last sat.
I wonder who plans to give them the assets to move them back or will they be stalled in country so this will be more likely to die down
incarcerated
02-18-2010, 16:58
Great to see a Russian writing for 'The Hindu.'
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article109172.ece
Russia to build base in Abkhazia
Vladimir Radyuhin
MOSCOW, February 18, 2010
Russia will build an inter-service military base in the breakaway Georgian republic of Abkhazia that will strengthen position in the Caucasus and the Black Sea.
An agreement on a combined land, air and naval base was signed on the sidelines of Abkhaz President Sergei Bagabsh's visit.
The base is designed “to protect Abkhazia's sovereignty and security, including against international terrorist groups”, said the document.
The agreement is valid for the next 49 years, after which it may be automatically prolonged every 15 years.
Russia and Abkhazia also signed a host of bilateral agreements on cooperation in the defence and economic fields.
“These agreements provide a foundation for the peaceful development of Abkhazia as an independent state,” said Russian President Dmitry Medvedev....
The military base in Abkhazia, which will accommodate up to 3,700 troops, will project Russia's air and naval power across the Caucasus and the Black Sea and will counterbalance the ongoing build-up of U.S. military presence in the coastal states of Romania and Bulgaria. Russia also has a military base in the former Soviet republic of Armenia.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61F3JE20100216
Georgia's rebel Abkhazia to allow Russian base
Amie Ferris-Rotman
MOSCOW
Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:56am EST
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Georgia's breakaway Abkhazia region said on Tuesday it would allow sponsor Russia to build a military base on its soil for land troops, strengthening the region's dependence on Moscow and provoking ire from Tbilisi....
"The agreement on Wednesday will allow for one, united military base on Abkhaz territory, for Russian land troops," the rebel region's deputy defense minister, Garri Kupalba, told Reuters by telephone from the regional capital Sukhumi.
He said the new base, which would link several points across Abkhazia and accommodate at least 3,000 land troops, including units of Russia's FSB border guards, would be built "sometime in the near future."
The European Union and Western alliance NATO have repeatedly expressed concern that a Moscow-led military build-up in Abkhazia threatens Georgia's territorial integrity.
It is also watched with unease by Western powers for its proximity to crucial energy routes which flow to the EU.
Georgia decried the new plans for a land base as illegal.
"Abkhazia and South Ossetia are Georgian territories, and the deployment of foreign troops on the territory of another country is called an occupation," parliamentary speaker David Bakradze told reporters on Tuesday in Tbilisi.
"Since the Russian aggression in 2008, Abkhazia and South Ossetia have become one big military base for Russia."
Abkhazia's deputy foreign minister, Maxim Gvindzia, said the troops for the new base are already stationed in the region.
LAND, AIR AND NAVAL TROOPS
Tbilisi's pro-Western leaders accuse Russia of effectively annexing rebel Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which broke away from Georgia in bloody separatist wars in the early 1990s.
Since Moscow recognized them as independent, Venezuela, Nicaragua and tiny island state Nauru followed suit....
Russia also installed land, air and naval troops in the rebel region of 200,000, and started work on several bases which are yet to be completed, causing NATO and the United States to call the moves a violation of international law.
A naval base is planned in Ochamchire on the northern coast, airborne troops for Gudauta on the coast just north of Sukhumi, and land troops in the Kodori Gorge area in the south of the region near the de-facto border with Georgia. It is not yet clear if the Kodori Gorge area will be included in the new projected land base, Kupalba said.
Dozer523
02-18-2010, 17:11
Damn Man! I saw that and thought, "Again?"
necropostography!
incarcerated
02-18-2010, 17:50
Damn Man! I saw that and thought, "Again?"
necropostography!
Gulity!
:D
incarcerated
08-11-2010, 09:27
http://www.rferl.org/content/Russian_General_Says_Kremlin_Deploys_Air_Defense_M issiles_in_Abkhazia/2124908.html
Russian General Says Kremlin Deploys Air Defense Missiles in Abkhazia
August 11, 2010
The commander in chief of Russia's air force has said that Russia has deployed sophisticated S-300 air-defense missiles in the pro-Moscow rebel region of Abkhazia.
General Aleksandr Zelin said the troops operating the missile system would work together with the air-defense systems of the army to provide antiaircraft defense for the Georgian separatist territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
He also said air defenses of other types had been deployed in the Russian-backed region of South Ossetia.
Georgia, which insists that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are an integral part of its territory, said the deployments are "a concern" for Tbilisi.
The Kremlin in 2008 recognized the two regions as independent states after Russia's brief war with Georgia.
It's a fait accompli. Georgia stepped on their dick when they started shooting instead of negotiating. Russia handed Georgia their ass, now Georgia is a little smaller that it was a few years ago.
Georgia needs to get over it and realize that Russia has -- in the famous words of the Israeli's -- "created a new reality."
Maybe China could see a message in that about Tiawan. Give it up, it's over.
It's a fait accompli.
Maybe China could see a message in that about Tiawan. Give it up, it's over.
Or maybe Taiwan could see a message in that about China. Give it up, it's over.
Or maybe S-Korea could see a message in that about N-Korea. Give it up, it's over.
Or maybe Canada & Mexico could see a message in that about THE USA. Give it up, it's over... oops to far..
:D
It's a fait accompli. Georgia stepped on their dick when they started shooting instead of negotiating.
Partly because they thought we would come to their rescue.
How does one go about negotiating with a Russian anyway? I'm confident the peace talks would go something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG-rPV0mEwU&feature=related) especially over some homemade Georgian wine. Ahhhh...
OK, here’s how I explained it to my teenage sons when they saw the headlines.
Suppose over the years United States established a special relationship with Roosevelt Roads and the area of Puerto Rico around the base. By special relationship, I mean:
Everybody in the area spoke English instead of Spanish. High School and College credits freely tansferred. A driver’s license from any state in the US was just fine in “Ameri-Rico.” People flew freely back and forth to the US from the “Ameri-Rico” airport as if they were in the United States (no visa, no customs, no passports). In fact, the area had its own (English speaking) police force, National Guard (who spoke English but reported to San Jaun, instead of the United States in the event of a hurricane or a flood). Over 20, 30, 40 years the eastern tip of the island became a “little bit of the U.S.” while still in the commonwealth of Puerto Rico. The U.S. dollar was still legal tender, and so on. Anyone born in “Ameri-Rico” is consided a U.S. citizen, and given U.S. passports.
Fast forward 50 years. Puerto Rico declare its independence from the United States. The U.S. grants P.R. independant status as a nation. But then, Puerto Rico begins to clamp down on “Ameri-Rico.” Flyers into the airport must have P.R. visas, and P.R. passports. Schools must be conducted in Spanish, P.R. courts are given exclusive jurisdiction, and “Ameri-Ricans” must trade their dollars for P.R. Pesos. A U.S. driver’s license isn’t good any more. And so on.
The residents of “Ameri-Rico” begin to complain back to the U.S. government. They expect to have trials by a jury, free travel, the right to conduct school and business in English if they want. They want to keep 1st , 2nd, 3rd etc. amendment rights, in fact, keep all of those rights. They especially want U.S. citizenship, the right to vote in U.S. elections, in other words, they still want to be “Americans, who happen to now be living in an independent nation of Puerto Rico.”
But what does the P.R. government do? They seal off the airport with P.R. tanks and troops. They issue orders requiring all schools and businesses to be conducted solely in Spanish. They refuse to recognize the “Ameri-Ricans” as U.S. citizens, or honor their passports; requiring them to get P.R. passports and obtain a visa to travel “home” to the United States. And they issue orders to the “Ameri-Rican” National Guard and police force to walk out of their barracks, turn over all their weapons, and shed their uniforms, to be replaced with Spanish speaking troops and police from San Jaun.
The “Ameri-Ricans” refuse, and stay in their barracks/police stations.
And what does the P.R. government do? Give them an ultimatum, then open fire with artillery, killing both the “Ameri-Ricans” and 100% American citizens who are members of the force or in the area. What would the U.S. Government do?
Exactly what the Russians did. Substitute “Georgia” for “Puerto Rico” and “Russia” for the “United States” and what would we do? The 82nd Airborne Division, the Rangers, and the Marines would be in “Ameri-Rico” overnight, kicking out the Puerto Ricans, destroying their air force, armor, and artillery all the way back to San Jaun, and granting some kind of political automomy to “Ameri-Rico.”
What should have been done? Negotiate a “special status” (not unlike what Hong Kong has with China) to find a middle road where rights and obligations built up over decades can be respected. But when the artillery projectiles begin to detonate, the mother eagle (or mother bear) will always rush to the aid of her offspring.