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Warrior-Mentor
07-26-2008, 03:02
From: http://robertringer.com/archives.php

Now that the Supreme Court is involved in the Washington, D.C. handgun-ban issue, both sides are bringing the same old arguments to the forefront. The nation’s capital, perhaps the most violence-prone city in America, also has some of our strictest gun-control laws.

Nevertheless, D.C.’s city fathers say that their handgun ban is “a governmental duty of the highest order.” Gun-control opponents, of course, claim that the ban infringes on their Second Amendment rights — specifically, “the right of the people to keep and bear arms.”

The authors of the Second Amendment had important reasons for adding it to the Constitution. Having been tyrannized by Great Britain, they saw the right to bear arms not only as a way for American citizens to protect themselves and their property from other individuals, but as a last-resort defense against an oppressive government.

That is precisely why it is in the best interest of today’s government to disarm the public. It has cleverly masked this violation of Constitutional and natural rights by appealing to the emotions of a populace grown weary of violence.

Notwithstanding their continual efforts to build a case against gun ownership, government legislators have failed in their attempts to show that gun control lowers crime rates. On the contrary, the results of tests and studies have shown quite the opposite to be true. Plain and simple, owning guns does not cause crime. If anything, it prevents crime.

The old saying “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them” is a self-evident truth. Certainly, even the most zealous gun-control advocate understands that criminals in every city in America are walking the streets carrying concealed weapons. Which means gun*control laws have the very real effect of giving criminals a huge advantage over noncriminals. It certainly is a great country … for them!

Like an overly protective parent, our government wags its finger in our faces and tells us: “You mustn’t own guns, because you might accidentally hurt yourself or someone else.” The assumption is that just because something can be used to harm someone, it will be used for that purpose.

There’s no question that thousands of people are killed each year by handguns, which is an unfortunate fact of life. Nevertheless, it’s only a small percentage of the number of people killed by automobiles. Yet, it would make no sense to suggest that responsible individuals should be denied the right to drive.

And the same logic should apply to guns. Just because some people use guns negligently — or for criminal purposes — is no reason to deny prudent, law-abiding citizens the right to own them.

I told you that I am not a big fan of the Second Amendment. It’s not that I disagree with its content. It’s just that I have a problem with the concept of the government granting rights to Americans through amendments to the Constitution.

The concept of amending the Constitution to grant rights implies that any rights not specifically granted by government edict or Constitutional amendment do not exist. It’s a dangerous trap, and one that we have walked into willingly while anesthetized by the phenomenon of gradualism.

So, while it’s nice that the Second Amendment grants us the right keep and bear arms, it is, more importantly, superfluous. You have the right to own a gun for the same reason you have a right to own anything. The corollary to this is that the government has no right to forbid you to own a gun for the same reason it has no right to forbid anyone from owning anything.

The term gun control, therefore, is a misnomer. When politicians talk about “gun control,” what they are really talking about is people control. As Morgan Norval put it: “‘Order’ may be the excuse; ‘law’ may be the argument; ‘keeping someone else in his place’ may be the emotional rationale; ‘supporting the police’ may be the civic slogan; ‘ending violence’ may be the dream — but the nightmare of reality is total tyranny of the state.”

Thus, not only are all arguments that favor gun control invalid on the basis of logic, fact, and morality, but even those who are against it usually miss the real point. Gun control is a freedom issue. Guns are a tool for self-*defense, and when government takes away any tool of self-defense, it not only violates our rights, it endangers our lives.

A gun is the individual’s ultimate means of preserving his freedom, which is why the right to bear arms should be defended to the bitter end. Because in the bitter end, as the American Revolutionaries discovered, it may very well get down to a matter of whether or not you have access to weapons.

One last word of advice: A gun is a means of protecting your life and property from those who would try to take them from you. You should never point a gun at someone for any other reason.

Also, never pull out a gun unless you’ve already made the decision to use it. It is not a toy. It is not a means of threatening someone. It is not a prop for showing off. Though it is socially impolite to talk about it, guns were invented for the purpose of killing people (which is why governments own millions of them).

Bottom line: If you’re not ready to kill, don’t pull out a gun. Better yet, don’t even own one. You’ll only end up getting yourself killed.

But for the sake of your own freedom – whether or not you choose to own a gun – you should oppose any attempt to restrict the right of law-abiding citizens to own firearms. The right to own a gun, as with the right to own anything, is inherited at birth. It is not up to a group of politicians to grant such a right through a Constitutional amendment.

If you’re tired of politicians telling you what you can and can’t do, stand up and be counted. Consider the idea of teaching of freedom as an avocation. Remember, every person you educate is one more person on the side of freedom — and in a democracy, numbers count.

Paslode
07-26-2008, 03:36
Good read, thanks for posting it.

Pete
07-26-2008, 21:26
115,000 names of vets have been added to the Can Not Buy list the FBI runs.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1153560.html

How long before yours is added.

I've mentioned it here before about vets and gun rights. Notice the tone in the story - Vets are violent - Vets go crazy - Vets commit suicide.

Paslode
07-26-2008, 23:26
115,000 names of vets have been added to the Can Not Buy list the FBI runs.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1153560.html

How long before yours is added.

I've mentioned it here before about vets and gun rights. Notice the tone in the story - Vets are violent - Vets go crazy - Vets commit suicide.

When you behind the wheel of a car you are GOD, you have the power to give or take life. Yet buying a car only requires your 18 years of age and getting a license to drive that car only requires passing a simple test.

There is never any question of your mental capability when buying or driving a car, even though a car is just as dangerous as a firearm and carries as much responsibility as a firearm.

As I look around my living room I can maim or kill someone or myself with 99% of the household items here.

It's is assinine for anyone to think, believe or propose that banning or limiting
weapons will put a stop to violent behavior. All it would accomplish is violent behavior would be performed in a different manner.:rolleyes:

The Reaper
07-27-2008, 07:53
England has an almost total ban on private ownership of firearms, and a very restrictive policy on knife carry.

How is that gun and knife control working on violent crime there?

Look at DC, Chicago, and NYC to see how well that works here.

TR

Peregrino
07-27-2008, 09:23
Got this in the mail this morning. Nice ammo for potential "discussions" with anti's - not that they're prone to being influenced by rational argument, just that it keeps us on the moral high ground (FWIW :().

Paslode
07-27-2008, 20:14
Peregrino,

Thanks for posting that, I have been looking for something like that for awhile.


Broadsword2004,

Cars were just for comparitve example of a killing tool in the wrong hands, it wasn't meant to get off topic. IMO cars/motor vehicles are no different than owning a gun. And with a little imagination you can harm someone with just about anything you can find laying around. And those intent on causing harm will do so with or without a ban, and they will do it with what ever is at their disposal.

Having a car or a gun is a personal choice, it should have nothing to do with whether I need it or not. And if I pass all the checks and balances I nor anyone else should not be denied the right of ownership.

Those judged in a Court of Law as being mentally unstable, convicted of a crime or under the age of 18 should neither...IMO

FMF DOC
07-22-2009, 05:57
Didn't want to start a New thread... Saw this in the News this AM

Senate to clash over concealed guns measure - Amendment would make permits from one state valid elsewhere in U.S.

WASHINGTON - Gun control and gun rights advocates are heading for another clash with a Senate vote on a measure that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry those hidden weapons into other states.

Backers, led by Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., say truckers and others with concealed weapons permits should be able to protect themselves when they cross into other states. Opponents say the measure would force states with strict procedures for getting permits to accept permits from states with more lax laws.

The Senate has scheduled a vote Wednesday on the measure, which Thune offered as an amendment to a major defense policy bill. Under an agreement reached among Senate leaders, 60 votes will be needed to approve the amendment.

The vote comes a day after the Senate completed what is probably the most controversial issue connected to the defense bill, voting 58-40 to eliminate $1.75 billion in the $680 billion bill that had been set aside for building more F-22 fighters. President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates campaigned hard for removing the money, saying the Pentagon had enough F-22s and the money could be spent on more pressing defense needs.

No national standards

The gun proposal would make concealed weapons permits from one state valid in other states as long as the person obeys the laws of other states, such as weapons bans in certain localities. It does not establish national standards for concealed weapons permits and would not allow those with permits to carry weapons into Wisconsin and Illinois, the two states that do not have concealed weapons laws.

"Law-abiding South Dakotans should be able to exercise the right to bear arms in states with similar regulations on concealed firearms," Thune said. "My legislation enables citizens to protect themselves while respecting individual state firearms laws."

National Rifle Association chief lobbyist Chris W. Cox said the last two decades have shown a strong shift toward gun rights laws. "We believe it's time for Congress to acknowledge these changes and respect the right of self-defense, and the right of self-defense does not stop at state lines," he said.
Gun control groups were strongly in opposition.

In many states, young kids may hunt alone

Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center. "It is beyond irrational for Congress to vote to expand the reach of these deadly laws," said the center's legislative director, Kristen Rand.

Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said the bill would "incite a dangerous race to the bottom in our nation's gun laws." He said his own state, which has strict gun control laws, would have to accept concealed weapons permits from states such as Arizona, which issues permits to people with drinking problems, or Alaska, where people with violent misdemeanor convictions can get permits.

"Folks in Minot, N.D., and New York are going to have different conceptions about what's right for their locality," said Jim Kessler, vice president for policy at Third Way, a centrist think tank that supports gun rights. "In some states you have to show a real need" to get a permit, he said. "In other states you have to show that you can stand on two feet."

So far this year gun rights advocates have had the clear advantage in Congress. They managed to attach a provision to a credit card bill signed into law that restores the right to carry loaded firearms in national parks, and coupled a Senate vote giving the District of Columbia a vote in the House with a provision effectively ending the district's tough gun control laws.

House Democratic leaders, unable to detach the two issues without losing the support of pro-gun Democrats, abandoned attempts to pass the D.C. vote bill.

HowardCohodas
07-22-2009, 08:31
Version 5.1 of Gun Facts is now available. http://gunfacts.info/

I was one of the proofreaders for version 5.0. We can always use more.

pjody187
07-24-2009, 11:10
Here's the alpha males take on gun control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCHtw6WbbnM