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82ndtrooper
07-23-2008, 06:04
Recently a friend telephoned me and left a message that he had acquired a Colt 1911 .45 ACP. In his message he was concerned that the gun was loaded, one in the chamber and he did not know how to operate the weapon to clear it safely and could I walk him through the process. Easy enough.

After telephoning him back and trying to walk him through the process, with all safety measures in mind, he simply asked If I could come to his residence and clear the weapon for him and inspect it for any needed work by a smith. Once I arrived I simply pulled the mag out, racked the slide safely to the rear and the round fell out of the chamber. To my surprise the weapon was a Colts MkIV/Series 70 Government Model .45 ACP. Some slight rust on the grip safety but other than that the weapon looked as if if had not been fired. Only some slight markings on the barrel where the original owner had probably racked the slide a few times chambering rounds. No fouling, no carbon, nothing. Even the wood grips looked like new conditon.

After some hemming and hawing about not knowing semi auto pistol function he simply said "Take it, it's yours, my gift to you" Wonderful !!! I've already got some mod's in mind to make this my own "Flagship" pistol.

HERES WHERE IT GETS MURKY:

Two day's after he "gifts" me the pistol he calls and says that he had originally acquired the weapon from a rather elderly lady and that her neighbor, a rather young woman, was calling him nonstop about when the pistol was going to be returned. :confused: What young lady and how did you acquire the pistol ? He states that in his business he often comes across individuals that will practically give away their whole basement of junk and stuff if they get running water piped back in and other interior work that is required to sell the house. Sounded fair enough to me, and the Colt pistol was one of the "junk" supposedly. But, why is this young woman living next door to her calling him wondering when the pistol is coming back ? I ask "Is this going to be a problem or what?"


BEAR WITH ME:

Finally after 5 day's he gets tired of the young woman, the neighbor of his elderly lady, calling him and making threats to call the police regarding the gun. What is her motive and agenda ? I agree for him to give her my telephone number to which she leaves a message saying "I'm so and so and I'm wondering when your going to bring the gun back, please call me" At this point I'm not really going to hand over a gun to an unknown female, who is the neighbor. I simply tell her to have the elderly lady call me so I can verify that the pistol needs to be back in it's proper hands or if the pistol of sentimental value I'd be happy to ship it to whomever in the family wants it but only through FEDEX and to an FFL in Texas where the supposed person that wanted the pistol currently resides. She didn't like that idea very much and insisted that the pistol be brought back to her. Hell no !! I don't know you, your not her family and have her call me and I'll be glad to give the pistol back if there was a misunderstanding between my buddy and the elderly lady about the pistols where abouts.

Next day phone rings and it's my buddy and he say's "Hey the police want to talk to you" Oh dear. :rolleyes: He say's that my buddy told him that "He won't bring the pistol back, yelling about his 2nd Amendment rights" What ? I simply explain that my buddy gifted me the weapon and no criminal intent was present on my part. He asks if I can bring the weapon down to the station, to which he also say's he's going to personally file charges against my buddy. What charges ? on who's behalf ? and why hasn't the elderly lady spoken up about his gun since their standing in her living room ?

I take the pistol to the station. The officer hands me a business card with a report number on it if I want a copy. Fine, but what happens to the gun and is their a chance I can take possession of it if the elderly lady doesn't want nor care where it lands ? I get some sort of story again about the family in Texas suddenly wanting it and that it was going to be returned to the them.

It's been a month, the elderly lady hasn't had the gun returned to her, and I highly doubt that the Covington PD shipped it to Texas. I telephoned her, stated who I was and was sorry about the situation. She suddenly say's to me "I don't care if you had kept it or not, my neighbor is just a nosy little bitch that wanted me to include her in damn will or something, so If you want it just get it from the police" AMAZING :munchin

I visit the lady, her name Ester W. I have type written affidavit stating that she is granting possession of the fiream to me and I include the make and model and serial number of the firearm. Signed by her, me and a witness that was a notory and she stamped it, just good purpose.

I telephone the PD and ask for the particular officer. He's not in but come in and maybe someone can help you with this situation.

I deliver the signed affidavit to the Chief of Police. He wants to call the lady to ensure the document is not a forged document, fair enough. The gun is not in the safe, nor anywhere in the station.

Me thinks someone, a certain police officer has a new Series 70 Colt 1911.


Any thoughts, suggestions? or leave it alone ?

The Reaper
07-23-2008, 07:45
You always need to be careful with "free" guns. You never know where they come from or what is attached to it.

You might have given the owner of the pistol some token payment, say, a dollar, and gotten a bill of sale for it.

Not sure you want to go down this road or not, but you could keep checking back weekely and see if the PD will eventually pass you the weapon. If not, you could check and see if they have an Internal Affairs section to help "find" the pistol. As a last resort, you could use the receipt to report the weapon as stolen, and see how long it takes the person possessing it to return it.

Best of luck.

TR

Team Sergeant
07-23-2008, 09:25
Any thoughts, suggestions? or leave it alone ?

Tell them they have a 24 hours to "find" the weapon or you will file a complaint with every law enforcement agency in your state starting with the State Troopers, sheriff office, working your way to the FBI.

Remember the day you walked in, it's probably on camera and your telephone calls (and the young ladies) to the police station most likely all recorded.

Do not take this sitting down!

TS

airbn5
07-23-2008, 10:36
Great advice from TR and TS. Just to add: I would contact the officer in charge of the case/that you turned the weapon over to, as he is directly involved with the outcome of the case. Chief may be too busy,not concerned, etc. Get a copy of the report, and a copy of the affidavit, if you didn't keep one, and ask questions. If no copy of affidavit in case file - red flag. If as you stated, the weapon was no longer at the station, (another red flag) then verify and ask where it went. (everything that went into our evidence room was always logged in/out...always!) If they state that the weapon was returned, ask to whom and where. Again, verify.There's a good chance that after they see how you are willing to continue this, they may "just happen to find it" If not take the next step and go up a level. Not sure as to the size of Covington PD, but if they have no Internal Affairs Division, then go directly to State Law Enforcment Division. (of course after a resonable amount of time for the weapon to be returned)
One more thing. If you have the serial# from the weapon contact an unrelated agency to verify it comes back clear, not reported stolen, used in a crime, etc. May help prevent " Oh, it was reported stolen, so we returned it" I am not saying anything about Covington PD or any other agency for that matter, just a way to keep things on the up and up.

Just my $.02 and good luck...getting back to my lane.

82ndtrooper
07-23-2008, 11:51
Well, since both TR and TS's responses I've had some luck and some staggering treatment.

First. I called and got immediatley routed to the Chiefs office to which he was out and the kind lady ask for the report number, name and circumstances. She dropped a message on his desk. No return call yet.

Second. I decided to call again and when I asked to be routed to the Chiefs office the lady that answered, probably records department said "There's a chain of command here you can't just speak to the Chief" :rolleyes: I reminded her that all officers, even Chiefs are public servants holding a public office and that as tax paying member of the public I shouldn't have to jump through a chain of command hoop to talk to the Chief. :mad:

She asked what it was concerning. After I briefly explained she said that the gun was there in the station. Now how did she, a records keeper, know that my case and that gun was in the station lockup ? I replied with "why wasn't the firearm returned to Mrs. Ester W. or given to me yesterday when I provided the affidavit?" Her reply "What business is it of yours where the gun is?" :rolleyes:

She then directed me to the investigator that closed the case. After waiting for a minute or two she comes back anf informs me that she's sending me his voice mail. However, not before she decides to again to utter the "It wasn't your gun anyway" comment.

So, apparently since my first call, the firearm is in the lockup all of a sudden or is enroute to the station.

I'm still awaiting the call from the investigator. Like I really expect it anytime soon. :rolleyes:


Thanks for the advice. Only when I mentioned the desire to file a complaint with the Kentucky State Police, then the County Sheriffs office and the FBI did she send me to the investigators voicemail.

Pete
07-23-2008, 12:46
....Thanks for the advice. Only when I mentioned the desire to file a complaint with the Kentucky State Police, then the County Sheriffs office and the FBI did she send me to the investigators voicemail.

Another piece of advice - right now I'd be sure to comply with all local gun laws.

You just POed some LEO - and I wouldn't put it past somebody to comb through the local laws.

Peregrino
07-23-2008, 12:52
Hostage negotiation - offer to swap a box of donuts. :D

This sounds sticky as hell. Good luck; FWIW I second Pete's advice.

The Reaper
07-23-2008, 12:52
Well, since both TR and TS's responses I've had some luck and some staggering treatment.

First. I called and got immediatley routed to the Chiefs office to which he was out and the kind lady ask for the report number, name and circumstances. She dropped a message on his desk. No return call yet.

Second. I decided to call again and when I asked to be routed to the Chiefs office the lady that answered, probably records department said "There's a chain of command here you can't just speak to the Chief" :rolleyes: I reminded her that all officers, even Chiefs are public servants holding a public office and that as tax paying member of the public I shouldn't have to jump through a chain of command hoop to talk to the Chief. :mad:

She asked what it was concerning. After I briefly explained she said that the gun was there in the station. Now how did she, a records keeper, know that my case and that gun was in the station lockup ? I replied with "why wasn't the firearm returned to Mrs. Ester W. or given to me yesterday when I provided the affidavit?" Her reply "What business is it of yours where the gun is?" :rolleyes:

She then directed me to the investigator that closed the case. After waiting for a minute or two she comes back anf informs me that she's sending me his voice mail. However, not before she decides to again to utter the "It wasn't your gun anyway" comment.

So, apparently since my first call, the firearm is in the lockup all of a sudden or is enroute to the station.

I'm still awaiting the call from the investigator. Like I really expect it anytime soon. :rolleyes:


Thanks for the advice. Only when I mentioned the desire to file a complaint with the Kentucky State Police, then the County Sheriffs office and the FBI did she send me to the investigators voicemail.


Pete hit it on the head. You better make sure that you have complied with all state and local laws for a face to face handgun transfer. Because you are going to draw some attention.

This would probably be a bad time to ask the Chief to sign your Form 4s.

I hope you got the second phone contact's name and IF LEGAL, recorded her comments. Or you could just ask them for their copy under the applicable state FOIA.

TR

Trip_Wire (RIP)
07-23-2008, 13:07
It sounds like all good advice so far 82ndtrooper. I see no reason this firearm shouldn't have been returned to you, unless it came up as stolen on NCIC or other sources, based on the facts posted here.

The main advice that I would give to you, is keep your temper under control, when dealing with the police department. You are within your rights to talk to anyone in that department about this incident to include the Chief. I think you can be persistent in following up on this weapon, without adopting an 'attitude' or losing your temper when talking to them. It will not help in your cause at all.

There are plenty of options to follow, if the firearm isn't returned to you. Many have already been mentioned already here. The Internal Investigations unit (if they have one) would have to investigate a complaint from you. That said, I would try to deal with the investigator assigned to the case, until such time as he/she failed to solve the situation. IMO, Keep it in that department, until all avenues there are exhausted.

When you have done this with no results, take it to the next level outside the department.

BTW: Pete's advice on local firearm laws, etc., should be heeded as well. Like he said you are drawing attention to yourself and maybe causing some anger within that department, etc.

I wonder if the Chief's position has been filled?

http://www.theblueline.com/feature/KYcovingtonpc.html

82ndtrooper
07-23-2008, 13:27
Let's see, gun locks on all guns not in use or on my hip, gun safe is closed and locked, form 4 originals are sitting in a manilla envelope in the locked drawer next to me as I sit here. No outstanding warrants, no unpaid parking tickets or traffic fines, and now that I have a living trust I don't need the Chiefs signatures for any further form 4's. :D

Investigator just called. Apologized for not calling sooner. Looks like the firearm is in lockup ready for pickup. :munchin


Trip Wire:

I believe the AC is acting Chief at the moment.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice.

Ret10Echo
07-23-2008, 13:37
Let's see, gun locks on all guns not in use or on my hip, gun safe is closed and locked, form 4 originals are sitting in a manilla envelope in the locked drawer next to me as I sit here. No outstanding warrants, no unpaid parking tickets or traffic fines, and now that I have a living trust I don't need the Chiefs signatures for any further form 4's. :D

Investigator just called. Apologized for not calling sooner. Looks like the firearm is in lockup ready for pickup. :munchin


Trip Wire:

I believe the AC is acting Chief at the moment.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice.


So will a photo of the firearm in question be made available after pick-up? :D

gagners
07-23-2008, 13:38
Sweet! Good news... Wait. You do mean "for pick up" by you, right??? :munchin

82ndtrooper
07-23-2008, 13:39
So will a photo of the firearm in question be made available after pick-up? :D

I'll have to do a "before and after since I'm now peeking 10-8 forums and parts. :cool:

Although I'm not too sure Team Sergeant want's to see anymore 1911's in the "Gun Pics" thread. :)

Trip_Wire (RIP)
07-23-2008, 14:21
I'll have to do a "before and after since I'm now peeking 10-8 forums and parts. :cool:

Although I'm not too sure Team Sergeant want's to see anymore 1911's in the "Gun Pics" thread. :)

Great! Maybe you should submit your resume! for the Chief's job! :D

82ndtrooper
07-23-2008, 14:34
Great! Maybe you should submit your resume! for the Chief's job! :D

Are you outtya mind ? I don't know the first thing about LEO duties. :D

Although someone you and I both know is applying for the position of patrol officer with Covington Kentucky Police Department. ;)

Trip_Wire (RIP)
07-23-2008, 16:44
Are you outtya mind ? I don't know the first thing about LEO duties. :D

Although someone you and I both know is applying for the position of patrol officer with Covington Kentucky Police Department. ;)

It's been my experience, that many people that apply and serve as Chief's of police, don't know the first thing about real LE duties either! :( ;)

TXSWAT
07-29-2008, 16:49
AMEN to that!!!!!!!