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RetPara
07-14-2008, 04:39
This is the longest I have lived in one house in my life. So under the direction of HH6 I have looking over the library and some books that I have kept away from 18YO son who likes to blow up stuff.....

Now I did find some stuff that wonder if folks could use or might be some historical interest....

Found

- a roll of 1million scale middle east road maps including Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.... late 80's early 90's vintage

- misc 1:250 JOG's of the middle east late 80's and early 90's vintage

- 'On Camps' this would seem be about 500+ pages that was originally typed with detailed diagrams on fortifications, perimeters, internal camp layout, booby trap, and perimeter boobytrap construction. If I remember right I copied it from a three ring binder that SGM (ret - was 5th GRP S3 SGM (?)) Sam 'Pappy' Jones had when I worked with him in G3 USASFC. Its pretty much a data dump of combined wisdom from how to build SF camps in Viet Nam.

Not sure if the maps are worth while to anyone.... but 'On Camps' from a historical view or 'rediscovered knowledge' might be important.

Yes... I hold a treasure trove of useless information and some documentation....

My intent is the original hard copy of 'On Camps' I have go the USASFC historian.

Since the Talitubbies tried to overrun a camp in A'stan over the weekend this may 'topic for its time'. I am going to scan the 500+ pages in this week. If you want a copy PM me your email. If you feel the need to have me send it through AKO thats GTG by me.

Blitzzz (RIP)
10-05-2008, 10:48
I fiirmly believe that building an A-site is a lost and deemphasized art form/project. It is the core of surviving in someone's backyard. I think all team engineers should "build A-Sites on paper to include everything needed to conduct assigned ops. Every team member should provide what that MOS needs. ie, Commo bunker, command bunker, mess and club bunker, out posts, field fortifications, fighting positons Barracks etc. It helps a team to think together. and helps the engineer to plan andform building priorities,and lists and skill to teach the rest of the team besides DEMO. Be a better Man, Blitz (Dave)

ALSO it is known that the VC could over run any A-site at any time, but the Price was too high. That is because of the ability of the site to deliver very unpleasent defences. Blitz

mark46th
10-05-2008, 16:33
It has been my experience that when you locate a site for a camp, the first thing you do is figure out where you want the club to be then build everything else around the club...

incommin
10-05-2008, 17:32
ALSO it is known that the VC could over run any A-site at any time, but the Price was too high. That is because of the ability of the site to deliver very unpleasent defences. Blitz

That is a pretty broad brush you just used. I think there were many attempts to do just that at several sites and the VC just couldn't do it...... Yes, if you could mass very large forces you could probably over run most.... the problem was massing sufficient forces without giving what is coming away. And that was hard for them to do.....

Blitzzz (RIP)
10-27-2008, 20:29
Mark, Yes, the first thing built was the commo bunker which became the club when the next commo bunker was built. A little humor here.

And Incommin, You're certainly correct about me using a broad brush, but I think we're saying the same thing. When I talk it is usually terse and therefore maybe not as thoroughly detailed as it should be. By "unpleasant Defenses" I do mean the VC would pay a price they most times could not afford. What, 65 days at Ben Het. A sites are a marvel. Dave

Mike
10-27-2008, 22:47
I spent 16 months at A341 which HAD been overrun and rebuilt.

We had patrols out at all times and a fairly good local intel net.
Fear of being overrun was constant and rose and fell in accordance with the situation.

The camp had been rebuilt with a few surprises and innovations.
We were under a significant siege late '69 with a few hundred incoming rounds of a great variety daily. Lots of casualties.
Sapper tracks in the wire, etc.
Presence of 3rd MSF and air support probably kept them from taking the camp.
1st Cav helped some, but wasted a lot of people.

Even if they took the camp, so what? they'd have taken crippling casualties and would not have been able to actually occupy or keep the place.

Major building was done by US Combat Engineers. We had no equipment for that.
We could pretty well maintain things ourselves but couldn't do much actual construction.

We rotated operations and usually spent about a third of the time in the bush depending on team strength.

Great days.

Blitzzz (RIP)
10-28-2008, 07:29
Camps are a part of our heritage.
Home
Fort
Launch site
Pain in the enemy's ass.
Blitz

RT AXE 10
10-28-2008, 08:09
Most of the A sites were strategically placed at their locations as part of the overall Vietnam pacification program. Some of them were right smack in the center of the NVA routes moving south.

As time went by, constructing an A site improved based on previous attacks, lessons learned and types of weapons used in the defence... A lot of scrounging went on to support the reconstruction...

Would like to get a copy of those old docs... email me!

Axe

Max_Tab
10-28-2008, 15:23
I fiirmly believe that building an A-site is a lost and deemphasized art form/project.

I disagree. It may have been lost, but it has been refound with a vengeance since 2001. I don't know how many firebases SF has built in A-stan, but it is alot. I personally helped build one in the middle of nowhere, back in 02. It was so far out, our only way to get resupply was by air.

It may have been forgotten, but it's not anymore. There are guy's around now, who could write books on it.

Blitzzz (RIP)
10-28-2008, 19:47
That's great to hear. Blitz

18C Troll
08-26-2009, 15:01
I can atest to the "A" camp of the vietnam era have not been forgotten, just updated. As a 18C graduate I was issued a copy of Base Camps by Pappy. That has served me and the others that have recieved it very well. When nothing is around and you have to build from scratch it is invaluable. However due to some more urban team houses and updated technology a revision is needed. Yet we are still only limited by material, time, and our imagination.