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Warrior-Mentor
06-23-2008, 19:14
New York Times
June 23, 2008
By William Kristol

The people at MoveOn.org have a new Iraq ad that is, if they do say so themselves, their most effective ever. Then again, for the group that brought us the “General Petraeus or General Betray Us?” ad last September, that might not be saying much.

Nevertheless, the organization boasts on its Web site, “This isn’t your average political ad — it lays out the truth about McCain’s Iraq policy in a personal and compelling way.” MoveOn also claims, “We just got the results back and polling shows that voters found it to be more persuasive than any other ad we’ve tested before.”

I’m not persuaded. Having slandered a distinguished general officer, MoveOn has now moved on to express contempt for all who might choose to serve their country in uniform.

Their new and improved message is presented in a 30-second TV spot, “Not Alex,” produced in conjunction with the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. It’s airing for a week on local broadcast stations in markets in the swing states of Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, and on two national cable channels, with a reported buy of over half a million dollars.

The ad is simple. A mother speaks as she holds her baby boy:
“Hi, John McCain. This is Alex. And he’s my first. So far his talents include trying any new food and chasing after our dog. That, and making my heart pound every time I look at him. And so, John McCain, when you say you would stay in Iraq for 100 years, were you counting on Alex? Because if you were, you can’t have him.”

Take that, warmonger!
Now it might be pedantic to point out that John McCain isn’t counting on Alex to serve in Iraq, because little Alex will only be 9 years old when President McCain leaves office after two terms.

And it might be picky to remark that when McCain was asked whether U.S. troops might have to remain in Iraq for as long as 50 years, he replied, “Maybe 100” — explaining, “As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it’s fine with me, and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world. ...”

In other words, McCain is open to an extended military presence in Iraq, similar to ones we’ve had in Germany, Japan or Kuwait. He does not wish for, nor does he anticipate, a 100-year war in Iraq.

But it is surely relevant to point out that the United States has an all-volunteer Army. Alex won’t be drafted, and his mommy can’t enlist him. He can decide when he’s an adult whether he wants to serve. And, of course, McCain supports the volunteer army.

All of this is pretty much par for the course in political advertising. And I’m of the latitudinarian school when it comes to campaign discourse; politics is supposed to be rough and ready. So, why, I wondered after first seeing the MoveOn ad, did I find it so ... creepy?

I was having trouble putting my finger on just why until I came across a post by a mother of a soldier recently deployed in Iraq, at the Web site BlueStarChronicles.com.

Here’s what the mother of an actual soldier has to say about the remarks of the mother of the prospective non-soldier in the ad:

“Does that mean that she wants other people’s sons to keep the wolves at bay so that her son can live a life of complete narcissism? What is it she thinks happens in the world? ... Someone has to stand between our society and danger. If not my son, then who? If not little Alex then someone else will have to stand and deliver. Someone’s son, somewhere.”

This is the sober truth. Unless we enter a world without enemies and without war, we will need young men and women willing to risk their lives for our nation. And we’re not entering any such world.

We do, however, live in a free country with a volunteer army. In the United States, individuals can choose to serve in the military or not. The choice not to serve should carry no taint, nor should it be viewed with the least prejudice. If Alex chooses to pursue other opportunities, he won’t be criticized by John McCain or anyone else.

But that’s not at all the message of the MoveOn ad.
The MoveOn ad is unapologetic in its selfishness, and barely disguised in its disdain for those who have chosen to serve — and its contempt for those parents who might be proud of sons and daughters who are serving. The ad boldly embraces a vision of a selfish and infantilized America, suggesting that military service and sacrifice are unnecessary and deplorable relics of the past.

And the sole responsibility of others.

Gypsy
06-23-2008, 20:30
The folks at moveon.org need to...move on. :rolleyes:

Geo
06-23-2008, 20:38
My little boy was born eleven days ago. My wife is somewhat emotional right now as most of you have experienced. She saw this ad and was holding our little boy in her arms. When the tears started flying, she said she was thinking of our baby going off to the Army. Now, she is not from a military family. We met and married after I got out of the Army. I had to explain to her that some people actually consider it an honor to join the military. It bothers me that she, along with the rest of your average civilian are eating this ad up. I regret I never got to show her what it means to serve. The bond between families and friends in your unit is something I miss to this day. I hate moveon.org. Now, If I could get her to let me check out the 19th group......hmmm

nmap
06-24-2008, 05:13
It sounds as if the Moveon ad is propaganda - and, frankly, cleverly designed propaganda. It creates images that appeal to the emotions, thus bypassing any rational analysis. The effectiveness is illustrated by Geo's wife's reaction.

To fight propaganda, it would be necessary to come up with something just as hard-hitting on the other side. Values other than mere consumption would need to be promoted, and it would have to be done in a visual medium.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of material that presents the other side.

ZonieDiver
06-24-2008, 08:56
The folks at moveon.org need to...move on. :rolleyes:

Very well said! I just wish we could be so blessed that they would actually move on. Many of my fellow teachers eat that "stuff" up with a big spoon, and then try to pass it along to their students. Emotional blather instead of rational discourse. What a shame.

Shar
06-24-2008, 09:17
The MoveOn ad is unapologetic in its selfishness, and barely disguised in its disdain for those who have chosen to serve — and its contempt for those parents who might be proud of sons and daughters who are serving. The ad boldly embraces a vision of a selfish and infantilized America, suggesting that military service and sacrifice are unnecessary and deplorable relics of the past.

And the sole responsibility of others.

I heard this ad on Rush (I think) last week and it pissed me off something fierce. The liberals run around saying that they "support the troops" but this is absolute proof that they do no such thing. I know we haven't gotten anywhere near the vitriol of Vietnam - but the venom is there, it's just vieled in a haze of PC-talk. That article does a good job of describing the many reasons why the ad does a number on my nerves, but it just FRIES me.

enterfirst
06-24-2008, 10:38
suggesting that military service and sacrifice are unnecessary and deplorable relics of the past

The Democrats of today have changed so much from the Democrats of the Kennedy years. Their naivity is amazing to me. They make noise about all these injustices in the world and in the same breath talk of how "military force" is outdated. The perfect example is BHO. He'll state how dangerous terrorists are, yet apparently believes that "sitting down at the table" with Ahmadinejad and other terrorist will magically and peacefully make them see the light, and everyone will hug each other, smoke the peace pipe, and the world will be such a wonderful place.

Ah, if ONLY us warmongerers could see the truth...:rolleyes:

Remington Raidr
06-24-2008, 12:47
I have seen the ad and it is very effective on it's target audience. All the above analysis is just wasted typing. To me (Mr. Non-PC) this is the poster child for why the majority (not all, but many) women should not have been allowed the vote. Many of them Cant Understand Normal Thinking. That being said, I have to admire it because it works.

The Reaper
06-24-2008, 12:50
I have seen the ad and it is very effective on it's target audience. All the above analysis is just wasted typing. To me (Mr. Non-PC) this is the poster child for why the majority (not all, but many) women should not have been allowed the vote. Many of them Cant Understand Normal Thinking. That being said, I have to admire it because it works.

I do not believe that this thinking is limited to females.

As far as the vote goes, I am with Heinlein. You should have to serve your country to have a say in the running of it as a fully-vested citizen.

Otherwise, you may not get it.

TR

ZonieDiver
06-24-2008, 13:03
I do not believe that this thinking is limited to females.

As far as the vote goes, I am with Heinlein. You should have to serve your country to have a say in the running of it as a fully-vested citizen.

Otherwise, you may not get it.

TR

In order to vote, I think people should, at the very least, have to pass the same test that people who wish to become citizens of the USA have to pass.

echoes
06-24-2008, 13:17
Agree with Gypsy...Moveon.org should just m-o-v-e-o-n.

Holly

tom kelly
06-24-2008, 13:45
Who are the people (scum) that make up this ultra liberal left group? Does anyone reading this site know any of the members or better yet their financial supporters? Please PM me with names if you do not wish to post in an open forum. I can guess that some if not most of their support comes from the preverted moguls in Hollyweird Ca. Please send some names...Regard's, tom kelly

The Reaper
06-24-2008, 15:09
Who are the people (scum) that make up this ultra liberal left group? Does anyone reading this site know any of the members or better yet their financial supporters? Please PM me with names if you do not wish to post in an open forum. I can guess that some if not most of their support comes from the preverted moguls in Hollyweird Ca. Please send some names...Regard's, tom kelly


George Soros. Billionaire socialist political activist and tax evader. Man (and money) behind moveon.org.

http://rightvoices.com/2006/10/06/george-soros-the-most-dangerous-man-in-america/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

TR

PSM
06-24-2008, 15:37
George Soros. Billionaire socialist political activist and tax evader. Man (and money) behind moveon.org.

http://rightvoices.com/2006/10/06/george-soros-the-most-dangerous-man-in-america/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

TR

And largest shareholder in JetBlue.

Pat

Shar
06-24-2008, 16:02
Soros has stated his stake in the company is at about 11% now, down from around 33% at its highest. The largest shareholder right now is Lufthansa. I know this because I am a big believer in taking my business elsewhere when I don't like where the money goes and this one has been tough on me.

I like Neeleman and Jetblue - good airline, good business practices. Mostly.

What I think is funny is that Jetblue's executives did a whole lot of Romney backing. I wonder how Soros liked that? Regardless, Jetblue sat all over that fence. Therefore I am on the fence with Jetblue.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mitt_Romney/campaign_financing

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/business/stories/2008/06/10/jet_blue.html

82ndtrooper
06-24-2008, 16:47
Soros has stated his stake in the company is at about 11% now, down from around 33% at its highest. The largest shareholder right now is Lufthansa. I know this because I am a big believer in taking my business elsewhere when I don't like where the money goes and this one has been tough on me.

I like Neeleman and Jetblue - good airline, good business practices. Mostly.

What I think is funny is that Jetblue's executives did a whole lot of Romney backing. I wonder how Soros liked that? Regardless, Jetblue sat all over that fence. Therefore I am on the fence with Jetblue.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mitt_Romney/campaign_financing

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/business/stories/2008/06/10/jet_blue.html


Soros is a walking talking hyprocrisy of his own belief system.

He's proof that "liberalism" is in fact a disease of the body and obsession of the mind.

Warrior-Mentor
06-24-2008, 18:17
It sounds as if the Moveon ad is propaganda - and, frankly, cleverly designed propaganda. It creates images that appeal to the emotions, thus bypassing any rational analysis. The effectiveness is illustrated by Geo's wife's reaction.

To fight propaganda, it would be necessary to come up with something just as hard-hitting on the other side. Values other than mere consumption would need to be promoted, and it would have to be done in a visual medium.

Unfortunately, there is a dearth of material that presents the other side.

Exactly my thoughts....I started consrtructing the response...problem is, it goes something like this:

"My son is in the Army and deployed to Iraq, and I'm damn proud he's protecting our rights and keeping the wolves at bay." - GEN Cody, Vice Chief of Staff of the Army

"My Son is in the Army and deployed to Iraq, and I'm damn proud of him." - GEN Odierno, Commanding General in Iraq

"Our Son is in the Army and we're damn proud of him."
Mr & Mrs Martin (my folks)

"Our Daughter is in the Army, deployed to Afghanistan, and we're damn proud of her."
- Any Military Parent

Continue et.al... until...

"My Son is in the Marines and deployed to Iraq, and and I'm damn proud of him. My other son is in the Naval Academy...and I'm damn proud of him too....and I approved this message.' - Senator John McCain

Problem is it would be viewed as political exploitation of our service. Bastards.

jatx
06-24-2008, 19:09
With a mother like that, Little Alex will probably suck at sports, be treated for "attention disorders", struggle with his sexuality, experiment with drugs, under-achieve, be REJECTED for military service when he makes a desperate trip to the nearest recruiter, enjoy the righteous life of the ideologically pure yet under-employed, and return home at 25 to live with his mother!

OTOH, now that I watch it more closely, I believe that Alex is giving a distress signal and that his participation in the commercial was coerced. :D

(Lighten up guys, the Left loves it when they make us angry.)

Remington Raidr
06-25-2008, 04:12
a counter-commercial. Since the first one was so beyond the pale, same lack of limits on this one.

Interview of uniformed soldier standing a post somewhere.

"Hi, I'm Alex". You may know me from the commercial of my mother holding me and saying John McCain can't have me. I felt I needed to come back to this time to go on the record. I love my mom. I know she has always wanted the best for me, but in the years since that commercial was aired, events (insert your list here) have shown everyone we can't sit around, hiding in our houses, hoping that the evil people that (repeat list) will not come to our street. I am serving because I chose to. I love my mother, but I'm no mama's boy.

But, we will never see it.

tom kelly
06-25-2008, 04:22
George Soros. Billionaire socialist political activist and tax evader. Man (and money) behind moveon.org.

http://rightvoices.com/2006/10/06/george-soros-the-most-dangerous-man-in-america/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

TR
TR: Thank You for the information and the links. Georgr Soros is indeed the man and the money behind the propaganda machine of move on .org, However, a little investigation into " other groups" and semi secret societies that he belongs to showes what his political and philosophy are. George is a member of " The Council on Foreign Relations" which has less than @2500 members and their goal along with three other groups, The Trilateral Commission, The Bilderberg Group and their puppet The United Nations have one goal, The New World Order, a one-world government with their members in leadership positions of course. The abolition of sovereginty of the United States and other independent and powerful sovergin states is the main goal of the groups mentioned. The founder of two of the groups David Rockefeller handpicked its leaders and most of the members. Looking at the membership of the three groups you will find cross membership with very limited representation eg there are very few black people, Asians and Russians. Colin Powell was the one african american I found on the membership rolls but I suspect that BHO will be inducted shortly.Regard's, tom kelly

Five-O
06-25-2008, 05:22
My nephew just signed a (OPT 40) four year enlisted contract with RIP option to be assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment upon RIP completion. He was in the top 10% of his high school class, was named "All Catholic" in two sports and was member of a national science team. His parents are very well off financially, he received offer letters from every college to which he applied. Essentially, the kid can write his own ticket.... and did. He is asking for some of the toughest training the Army has to offer because in his words, "Uncle Bill, I want to earn the right to be an American."
God Bless 'em. RLTW

Sweetbriar
06-25-2008, 16:35
Someone has responded with a video:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/06/020837.php

Geo
06-25-2008, 18:00
OUTSTANDING:D:lifter

Warrior-Mentor
06-25-2008, 18:58
I will def be forwarding this link. Recommend you do as well!

Shar
06-25-2008, 19:21
I really, REALLY like that lady. Normally I'd kinda hate someone who was that gorgeous when she was that pregnant, but I'd like her to be my new best friend. :D (Yes, girls are dumb.)

Pete
06-25-2008, 19:27
Working on their own fire team I see.

Shar
06-25-2008, 20:04
Her husband is MAJ Eric Egland founder of "Troops Need You"

http://www.troopsneedyou.com/press.php

Gypsy
06-25-2008, 20:09
Very nice... :lifter

tom kelly
06-25-2008, 21:22
Someone has responded with a video:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/06/020837.php

This is what I hope will be America's Future. Leaders being raised by parents who LOVE this country....regard's, tom kelly

Sweetbriar
06-30-2008, 08:24
Major E. has a further request...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/06/020872.php

cjwils3
06-30-2008, 19:12
This is what I hope will be America's Future. Leaders being raised by parents who LOVE this country....regard's, tom kelly

I couldn't agree any more with you sir.