View Full Version : No reclassifications to another MOS
Thought I would share the newest policy from Gen. Parker. There will be no reclassification to another MOS if you fail out. This is to include 18D no matter how far you have made it in the medical course to include all the way to SARR and pass your second rotation.
Obviousley, since I am writing this thread I don't agree with the new policy. I am in SFMS have watched all the guys I started with graduate and head off to teams. I'm not complaining about doing a year long MOS the only thing I don't understand is how I couldn't be an asset to a team if I have made it so far in the medical portion fail out academically and then sent to 82nd or civil affairs after completing SFAS, SUT, SERE, 1st block of language, and SOCM. Maybe someone can help me explain the reasoning behind this new policy and help me grow as an SF candidate.
The Reaper
06-17-2008, 07:29
That has been the policy several times before, and has changed.
In three days, that will no longer be MG Parker's decision.
Who knows what else MG Csrnko will change?
Are you planning to fail?
TR
That has been the policy several times before, and has changed.
Are you planning to fail?
TR
Absolutely not, I have invested too much time to go back and be a babysitter for some 18 year old kid who doesn't know how to keep his room clean or wash his clothes.
Parker was a tool as a Maj and LTC. I have no expectations he would change as a GO...... Drive on in your training and as TR said all can change in a day or two. The new CG of the school is a good commander. Good Luck.
Absolutely not, I have invested too much time to go back and be a babysitter for some 18 year old kid who doesn't know how to keep his room clean or wash his clothes.
What if you're put in charge of a platoon of Iraqis or Afghans that don't keep their rooms clean or wash their clothes? Have you invested too much time and effort to be "stuck" with them?
CDRODA396
06-18-2008, 09:41
What if you're put in charge of a platoon of Iraqis or Afghans that don't keep their rooms clean or wash their clothes? Have you invested too much time and effort to be "stuck" with them?
DOH!!!:D
What if you're put in charge of a platoon of Iraqis or Afghans that don't keep their rooms clean or wash their clothes? Have you invested too much time and effort to be "stuck" with them?
:boohoo I guess this is what I'll get....the worlds smallest violin while I teach them about personal hygiene and preventive medicine measures.
Nothing personal; that was just a small azimuth check for all of you great Americans stepping up to become SF. Past all the cool training and inevitable feelings of invincibility, don't forget your bread and butter job of being a force multiplier--By, With, Through.
NousDefionsDoc
06-18-2008, 21:49
Brother, you are a genius...nice mentoring.
The new CG of the school is a good commander. Good Luck.
That's good to hear. Everybody here at school seems stoked about the change.
Parker will be missed like a cold sore.
x/S
rudelsg2
06-23-2008, 08:35
Thought I would share the newest policy from Gen. Parker. There will be no reclassification to another MOS if you fail out.
As far as I am concerned this is the only GOOD thing I have heard of him implementing. Personally, I am tired of the three and four time mouth breathing re-treads that get recycled through till they finally find a MOS that they are mediocre at. A SFQC Grad should be more than a warm body with a MOS attached to it.
If your looking for someone to rub your belly and tell you it will be o.k., you need to quit now and join the Peace Corp.
uboat509
06-24-2008, 13:44
As I understand it, this policy was implemented because guys who had involuntarily been changed from another MOS (typically B or C) to D were intentionally failing in order to go back to their original MOS. The problem is that I am not sure that the problem was as widespread as the command believed and in any case, just because a guy does not have the aptitude to be a D does not mean he would not be a good B or C. This is a problem is SWCS. I had a guy in my class, for instance, who was selected as a C, attended CLT and SUT as a C and then three days prior to the start of the D course was told that he would now be a C. He is still in the course but he is struggling. I think that he would be a good B or C but they needed bodies to fill D slots and he (and many others) got pulled at the last minute to fill those slots. That's not good business to begin with but to then tell these kids that if they don't have the aptitude to be a D then they can't be SF is just wrong.
In any case where was this involuntary 18D thing when I went through the course? Instead of being an 18C re-classing to 18D now I could already be an 18D, dangit. :)
SFC W
rudelsg2
06-24-2008, 16:06
So, I guess back when it was just phase 2 (MOS) and then phase 1&3, all the guys that failed out due to the inability to pass land nav, were cheated out of their right to be in SF also? Where does this sense of entitlement come from, and where does it end?
I guess I'm tired of hearing the mantra "since I passed selection, I'm as good as graduated and deserve to" and somehow view the Q course as obstacle to their "entitlement", not as a requirement for being in SF.
Life isn't always fair and when one reports in to the Q course, I do not believe you sign a contract saying you will only train for this MOS. Believe it or not SWCS has to provide Soldiers trained in the MOS needed by the force, not one's personal desire, (you know, one that they feel they can pass). Does SWCS always get it right, of course not, does anyone always get it right, of course not (why else would prior medics get slotted into the Bravo course).
You know how many guys I have heard say that they would have been a great asset to SF; well if they could have just done that one little thing called pass the course they were given.
Maybe Gen. Csrnko will re-establish some of the pre-requisite standards (GT for one) and support the NCOs at the course by allowing them to kick out the garbage early that slipped through, instead of giving them every opportunity to have a Green Beret handed to them.
It seemed that Parkers mantra of "your Tm Sgt will teach you", also meant reteach their MOS after arriving at Grp.
I guess I'm not sensitive enough to the needs of these "kids"; but then again I have had a few of these special "kids" (that someone was sensitive to their need to be in SF) and it made my life as a Tm Sgt and for the rest of the team hell. Yes, the ones that started as D, then when to E then to B.
Hence this statement;
"Personally, I am tired of the three and four time mouth breathing re-treads that get recycled through till they finally find a MOS that they are mediocre at. A SFQC Grad should be more than a warm body with a MOS attached to it."
Team Sergeant
06-24-2008, 16:12
:boohoo I guess this is what I'll get....the worlds smallest violin while I teach them about personal hygiene and preventive medicine measures.
It's all about "Hearts and minds", next you'll be teaching the same sorts of individuals to follow you through the gates of hell.;)
uboat509
06-24-2008, 19:05
So, I guess back when it was just phase 2 (MOS) and then phase 1&3, all the guys that failed out due to the inability to pass land nav, were cheated out of their right to be in SF also? Where does this sense of entitlement come from, and where does it end?
First of all, I never said anyone had a right to be SF. I simply said that just because someone does not have the aptitude to pass the 18D course does not mean that they would not be an asset to SF in another MOS. During my time in SF I have met quite a few guys who started out in the 18D course but finished another course. They were not sh*tbags who had some sort of sense of entitlement. They were good guys who did not have the aptitude to pass the 18D course.
SFC W
rudelsg2
06-24-2008, 19:40
First of all, I never said anyone had a right to be SF. I simply said that just because someone does not have the aptitude to pass the 18D course does not mean that they would not be an asset to SF in another MOS. During my time in SF I have met quite a few guys who started out in the 18D course but finished another course. They were not sh*tbags who had some sort of sense of entitlement. They were good guys who did not have the aptitude to pass the 18D course.
SFC W
Granted you didn't and I have met guys as you describe also. But, I also have friends that could have been described as not having the aptitude for 18D, but buckled down, completed it and are/were great medics. But, then they also did not act as if they had the door out to another MOS in the corner of their eye either just so they could "be" SF.
Maybe my post is more for the ones who have the misconception that just because they put alot of time into something it gives them some kind of credit to cash in if they fail. Ever see a day one recycle in Florida?
It seems alot of studs come here wanting/needing their short comings validated by someone else instead of being a man, buckling down and doing what needs to be done.
But, then again, my post was about the policy as posted. If it keeps the guys out who go through every MOS 2 or 3 times till they hit jackpot, it is fine by me. I do not know about others, but I never needed a full team that badly.
As far as I am concerned this is the only GOOD thing I have heard of him implementing. Personally, I am tired of the three and four time mouth breathing re-treads that get recycled through till they finally find a MOS that they are mediocre at. A SFQC Grad should be more than a warm body with a MOS attached to it.
If your looking for someone to rub your belly and tell you it will be o.k., you need to quit now and join the Peace Corp.
I didn't start this thread to have my belly rubbed or to tell you I want to to quit and join the peace corp. I was referring to the fact that hard working students are getting screwed becuase like you said someone was "sensitive" to some sh%$bags and they slid through. I absolutley do not think that just becuase I was selected I am entitled to be in SF. I fully understand that I was selected to ATTEND the SF QUALIFICATION Course and I fully understand that everyday I have to bust my @$$ to be here and to stay here to QUALIFY to be in SF. I also completly understand your frustration. When I was a SQD LDR/ PLT SGT the Army has the same mentality of "your SQD LDR/PLT SGT will teach you", but isn't it our jobs as NCO's to mentor, train and influence others to accomplish the mission by providing purpose, direction, and motivation? I do believe above average guys should be in SF and all I was commenting on was that the new policy was getting rid of some above average guys.
rudelsg2
07-01-2008, 22:51
I didn't start this thread to have my belly rubbed or to tell you I want to to quit and join the peace corp. I was referring to the fact that hard working students are getting screwed becuase like you said someone was "sensitive" to some sh%$bags and they slid through. I absolutley do not think that just becuase I was selected I am entitled to be in SF. I fully understand that I was selected to ATTEND the SF QUALIFICATION Course and I fully understand that everyday I have to bust my @$$ to be here and to stay here to QUALIFY to be in SF. I also completly understand your frustration. When I was a SQD LDR/ PLT SGT the Army has the same mentality of "your SQD LDR/PLT SGT will teach you", but isn't it our jobs as NCO's to mentor, train and influence others to accomplish the mission by providing purpose, direction, and motivation? I do believe above average guys should be in SF and all I was commenting on was that the new policy was getting rid of some above average guys.
So why did you start this thread? Still sounds like more of the same to me. Minus the last nine months at the SGM Academy, the last 14 years of my Army life has been spent in an SF company. So unless you have any amount of time close to that, I doubt you understand my "frustration" as you call it.
I find it amusing that in the same thread you have graduated from an NCO that viewed going back to the regular Army as "babysitting"; to schooling me on what my responsibilty is as an NCO. Give me a break.
The Army is full of above average guys that did not make the cut for one reason or another, that's life. I have always considered myself a average Soldier who had the ability to accomplish above average goals, through self motivation, drive and the want to do or be something few people could. Maybe that is why I worked harder to accomplish my goals, instead of hoping someone else would set the right conditions for me to achieve them.
But, I guess it is always easier to blame the system than to examine oneself and determine what one's weakness really is and how to make it one's strength.
I guess I'm glad there was no internet and books about how to make it into SF when I went through. Otherwise I might have sat around and felt sorry for myself instead of just doing it, whatever the outcome. Nah, never.
I have been in the Army 9 years. I don't know if you consider that close enough to your 14 years in SF company and an additional 9 months in the SGM academy, but I feel that I might have been almost halfway around the block.
Obviuosly we dont agree about the policy. Thats fine. I do agree that a student shouldn't bounce from MOS to MOS ,but it should be on a case by case basis if they do get recycled to another MOS once. I do also agree that they should raise the GT score back to where it use to be.
The 'babysitting" comment I guess needs clarified. I did not mean every soldier needs babysitted. The soldier that doesn't want to be in the Army, he thinks everyone is against him, he does drugs( not just pot but all the way up to herion), can't pass a PT test, is waaayyy overwieght...etc. That is the type of soldier I am sick of "babysitting". Commanders need to enforce regulations to kickout dirtbags instead of worrying about the numbers. Kind of sounds like an issue SF has faced, but my apologies for saying as a leader I have been frustrated with they the way the Army works sometimes.
The D course is more than just "buckling down and studying". There is more to it. SARR is a good example.
Finally the reason I started the thread was again I do not agree with the policy and I thought people should be aware of it.
rudelsg2
07-13-2008, 09:22
I have been in the Army 9 years. I don't know if you consider that close enough to your 14 years in SF company and an additional 9 months in the SGM academy, but I feel that I might have been almost halfway around the block.
No, I would not, two different worlds. By the way that's 14 years in an SF company out of 20 in the Army, but I guess I get no respect for that from you either, SF Candidate. But by all means, if you graduate, please let me know and I will request you for my company and we can talk about it then.
I guess the "18D course made easy" did not quite work out the way you envisioned it?
Parker will be missed like a cold sore.
x/S
thought that it would more like an infectious disease like the clap.....:D
Some of the best teammates I've had over the last 16yrs in SF took the 18D "Short Course", and then completed the 18C or 18B courses.
I recommend that you young aspiring Special Forces Soldiers familiarize yourself with the SOF Truths.
I heartily agree with Rudelsig in regards to the need for quality personnel on an ODA.
Klagt Nicht, Kampft !!