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NousDefionsDoc
06-15-2008, 22:59
From Army Times:

By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Saturday Jun 14, 2008 6:45:30 EDT

FORT JACKSON, S.C. — An overhauled physical training program that links a soldier’s fitness and exercise to the demands of combat and long deployments is on its way to the operational Army.

A draft manual that spells out the changes is being reviewed by soldiers on a wide distribution list. But when approved — which could be within months — it will be the first change to the Army PT manual since 1992.

The 645-page draft manual contains dozens of fitness regimens for a 12-month period, designed to take soldiers through the deployment life cycle. The workouts are aimed at conditioning soldiers for the missions and tasks they perform every day, rather than getting them in shape for the semiannual Army Physical Fitness Test.

Lt. Gen. Benjamin Freakley, commanding general of Army Accessions Command, which oversees the Basic Combat Training Directorate and U.S. Army Physical Fitness School, said the Army was “moving towards warrior tasks and battle drills, expeditionary-Army-centric PT.”

Full battle rattle, rather than shorts and a T-shirt, is the required PT gear for a number of the workout routines.

Some sets require soldiers to exercise in their Army Combat Uniforms, wearing body armor and helmets with rifles slung across their backs. The exercises are designed to build the strength and flexibility soldiers need for the jobs they do — perhaps to dash 50 yards in full battle gear and jump a low wall, or to endure the twisting and balance of manning a gun turret.

The PT test — which has remained unchanged since it first appeared in 1980 — will stay the same for now, leaders say, because the Army wants soldiers to focus on the new PT regimen and its benefits for helping them in their jobs.

Push-ups and sit-ups will continue to be part of PT, but sprinting and walking are recommended over distance running, which was found to have been “overemphasized” in the current manual, according to briefing notes that accompany the draft.

hundreds of exercises designed to build the strength, motor patterns and endurance soldiers need in the field are included in the new manual, organized into weekly and monthly workouts linked to the Army’s warrior tasks and battle drills.

Recognizing that not all soldiers and units have regular access to a full gym, the new manual also provides a lengthy section on strength training with dumbbells, which are easy to store and transport.

In another move to more closely match physical fitness training to field requirements, there is a chapter devoted to water survival training — the first time the subject has been included in the PT manual. another chapter lays out testing procedures for combat water survival.
Getting in deployment shape

Many of the individual exercises are not necessarily new to the Army but will be to many soldiers. They were chosen specifically for their value in training soldiers to be strong, fast and agile and are grouped into sets of drills designed to progressively condition, toughen and sustain soldiers in a pattern that mirrors the Army Forces Generation Model, a full life cycle that includes readiness training, deployment, redeployment, reset and back to readiness.

Using that model, the manual offers a year’s worth of sample PT schedules that take a unit through that progression, including a couple of sample schedules that can be used during deployment.

Commanders can select as they see fit from a menu of drills and activities that meet their mission-essential task lists for their type of unit. Each day’s workout is designed to take about 60 minutes.

“It’s not a routine, it’s a system,” said Army Physical Fitness School director Frank Palkoska, who co-wrote and developed the manual and curriculum with training development specialist and deputy director Steve VanCamp.

Palkoska and VanCamp said they kept the idea of a “tactical athlete” in mind as they rewrote the book over the past five years, hoping that leaders will use the information to condition soldiers for peak performance the same way professional athletes train.

“The drills are crafted for balance and should be done as prescribed. The more you deviate, the more you run the risk of not getting the results you want,” VanCamp said. “Don’t just take all the ones you like and do them. Do all the exercises in the drill and get really good at them, and you’ll see a total change in your body.”

The draft PT manual is an expanded version of a physical readiness training program that was introduced at basic training posts four years ago, and it’s the first time an Army PT manual has been validated with proven results.

According to Palkoska, 85 percent of men and 75 percent of women in basic training who were conditioned using the new combat PT regimen scored higher than 60 percent on the APFT’s three events — push-ups, sit-ups and running.

Basic trainees are required to score 50-50-50 to pass, but, according to Col. Kevin Shwedo, deputy commander of Fort Jackson, more than half are passing with those higher scores.

Freakley said that beyond test scores, the most important benefit of the overhauled PT is that “clearly, a large part of an Army being able to fight is our physical condition.”

Freakley praised the manual’s focus on preparing soldiers for missions of all intensity levels, not the least of which are the long-term missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“If you look at us before the start of this war, we did not wear 70 pounds of equipment,” he said, predicting that leaders across the Army would embrace the new regimen once they got a chance to work with it, understanding that it conditions soldiers for hard work.

“What compels the leader to want to do this is that this manual is warrior task- and battle drill-centric. It’s about mobility, it’s about strength and it’s about endurance, and it’s putting those all together in and out of your kit.”
‘Toughened and sustained’

Staff Sgt. Michael Norton, 27, was recently assigned to work at the physical fitness school and has been familiarizing himself with the new manual.

The section on gym workouts, he said, “is exactly the kind of stuff soldiers buy Men’s Health magazine for.”

But he also gave high praise to the manual’s focus on what regular Joes need to be strong enough for their missions.

He said infantrymen need to be able to move in full battle rattle as though they were not weighed down by all that they carry.

His unit’s forward operating base in Afghanistan, he said, “was at 3,800 feet, and it was like 80 degrees in the morning and snowing in the afternoon.”

He and his squadmates carried up to 85 pounds on their bodies.

“I’ve been pretty winded climbing up some of those inclines. Our perimeter security was always up,” he said.

This new PT, he said, “has more emphasis on the speed and resistance you need to be strong for operations in this environment for a year.”

Another fan of the new manual is Lt. Col. Dave Snodgrass, commander of 2nd Battalion, 39th Infantry Regiment, a basic training unit at Fort Jackson that’s been doing the overhauled basic training PT since 2004.

“We’re going to export this to the rest of the Army. I’m a believer — it works,” said Snodgrass, who has seen marked changes in his trainees.

“I’m a big runner, but the reality is, you’re never going to run four miles in combat,” he said. “But I still believe in having soldiers run four miles as a way of pushing them to push themselves.”

And with the new PT manual, that’s not a bad thing, Palkoska and VanCamp said. It’s just not the only thing soldiers should be doing.

The merits of the new process for creating soldiers who are well-rounded athletes, Freakley said, will benefit every leader.

“My view is, as a senior leader, I don’t want a marathoner who can’t wear his or her combat load. But I also don’t want a Mr. or Mrs. America weightlifter who doesn’t have the endurance to walk up some of the hills we did in Afghanistan,” Freakley said of his tenure as commander of 10th Mountain Division.

“So I want that toughened and sustained soldier who is balanced. You’ve got some weightlifters out there who can’t touch their toes because they’re so muscled up.”

The draft manual is still in the review stage and, once approved, will go into production and distribution. Palkoska estimated it could be another six months before it’s out into the operational Army.

“Within three to five years,” he said, “the Army will be saying, ‘This is the way we’ve always done it.’”

Five-O
06-16-2008, 01:44
IMHO long over due. While deployed in the sand box I don't remember missions in PT shorts and a T Shirt. Most good leaders , in addition to the standard PT test events, have soldiers doing more dynamic task oriented exercises anyway. It's good to see it will be formalized. Thanks for posting NDD.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-16-2008, 05:54
“Within three to five years,” he said, “the Army will be saying, ‘This is the way we’ve always done it.’”

Un-huh. Within three to five years the Army will be saying, damn let's reinvent the wheel and get a new PT program:rolleyes: I do not care how much mother army changes the PT program, it is still going to come down to individual commitment and command support to allow those that need to do real PT, do real PT so that they can excell at their jobs rather than be judged as fit to pass a PT test. As long as the measure of physical fitness is judged by the APFT score and a tape test nothing will really change. How many of you have been in units where their PT programs were tailored to meet mission requirements-most of us have. Now how many of those programs were actually used as the validation of your physical fitness when it came to the little check on your annual efficiency reports. This looks good on paper now let's see if it can be executed.

Razor
06-16-2008, 08:44
I'll be curious to see if this "new" program is just a dusted-off version of the program proposed in the late 90s, but turned down because it was "too hard" to implement.

I understand the anti-distance running argument, but don't fully agree with eliminating it from the PT program. Palkoska (a former USMA Dept. of Physical Ed. instructor) has always been a "gym rat" kind of guy and detests running, so I'm not surprised to see LSD runs dropped. Personally, I always found LSD runs improved my overall endurance and cardio capacity, which came in handy during long, multi-day cross-country movements. Of course, LSD running was cycled with swimming, rucking, sprinting, fartleks, stairs, intervals, hills and a host of other complimentary exercises.

The Reaper
06-16-2008, 08:58
This is going to injure a lot of people, especially small statured ones and females.

Not saying it isn't worth trying, but I suspect that it will result in so many injuries that they will call it off in a few years, and the VA payments will go on forever.

Should be mandatory for combat arms though.

TR

Blakeslee
06-16-2008, 20:23
I believe that if the new PT program is going to focus more on strength, the AFPT should be adjusted as well. Granted, each unit will adjust fire as needed. Personally, I welcome the change.

I'm hoping that the implimentation will be done smartly; ensuring less injuries. I'm a firm believer that almost anyone can be trained up to a certain level of fitness if they are willing and dedicated.

crash
06-17-2008, 22:36
This is going to injure a lot of people, especially small statured ones and females.

Not saying it isn't worth trying, but I suspect that it will result in so many injuries that they will call it off in a few years, and the VA payments will go on forever.

Should be mandatory for combat arms though.

TR

I feel differently; I feel this may lead to less combat/deployment related injuries. Of which could be more serious, fatal. At least in garrison if you get hurt you can stop; kinda hard to call a time out with bullets flying. While if not implemented properly with a gradual build up it could also increase garrison injuries. But in theory I think the cost is worth the gain.

From what I've read it seems like it will have different levels so the command can adjust fire. I think this is more aimed at the REMFs (me) who don't usually train in full gear because our day to day job doesn't require it. I think not wearing gear forever then getting tossed into a deployment will cause more injuries than a build up and sustainment, which I think is what this is trying for. At least this would give non combat arms guys the time under full gear they might not usually get. (or units like mine that don't even have full combat kit)

I've always though you should train as you fight, that means in uniform, and gear. PTs have their place though, can't to everything in gear; and that lsd runs shouldn't be tossed aside. I do feel they are over emphasized in some units; but in the end thats what it all comes down to the unit. They decide what to do for pt and it will be how they implement it as to whether it works, or is a utter failure.

ok rant over off to bed.

Swamp
06-20-2008, 13:21
“If you look at us before the start of this war, we did not wear 70 pounds of equipment,” Our rucks alone are 70 lbs as I'm sure most QP's on this board are, or well over.....then add in mags, frags, body armor weapons etc..... cardio should not be eliminated....having said that I think leg/upper body/arm strength should be the focus. There will be injuries if it is not conducted in a proper fashion. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. My .02

Intel_Airman
06-24-2008, 07:00
Sounds good, but like someone said, it comes down to personal commitment. Complex systems are not the answer when you are dealing half a million Soldiers.* PT needs to focus on weightlifting for strength/endurance 3 times per week and 10 minutes of HIIT training right afterwards.* Add some LSD's, swimming, the usual calisthenics and you have a winning "system".* More important than the fitness system implemented is getting Soldiers to a battle ready weight through proper nutrition.* Once again, a personal commitment.* What's killing guys coming into theater is the extra 30lbs around their waist from eating at BK, KFC, and any other fast food restaurant you find on post.* America's carb heavy diet is not meant for warriors.

JJ_BPK
06-24-2008, 08:46
Does anyone have a copy of the draft they would like to share?? in PDF or DOC format??

Is the daft to be a revision of FM 21-20 like they did with the 1998 update or a new FM #?

In 98' they only changed a 1/2 doz pages. This sounds much more substantial..

Thanks

Pete S
06-24-2008, 16:44
Very similar to the Combat Fitness Test being implimented by the Marine Corps.

DrVudoo
06-29-2008, 21:09
I think 1-40 cav already started something like this.

Cav Fit Test

40 yard dash 5 seconds minimum
Flat Bench 300lbs
10 mile run 70 minutes minimum

rest for 10-20 minutes

Obstacle course full IBA, ACH and weapon slung.
Rope Climb
40 yard dash sprint
Monkey bars
SKEDCO pull with 200lbs for 40 yards.
Jump over a 8 foot wall
Comanders crawl 40 yards
Combat Pull a Dummy weighting 200 lbs.
Then sprint 2 laps 4 40s.

:lifter

I've only done it once and it's a smoker.

Razor
06-30-2008, 10:33
I'd really be interested in seeing that Cav test administered, especially the 300lb bench press, the 10 mile run and the last two 400m "sprints".

The Reaper
06-30-2008, 11:10
I agree.

I know of few non-pro athletes who can bench over 300, and fewer still who can also run 10 miles in 70 minutes.

Was that a cav unit, or a pro football team?

TR

MVS2
06-30-2008, 12:48
It's probably not too popular with a lot of soldiers - YOGA, man! While weightlifting I sustained far less injuries, muscle pulls, and increased my cardio stamina and strength by doing 15-45 minutes of yoga excercises a few times a week. It keeps you better balanced and more flexible than any other stretchig routines I'd ever done.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-30-2008, 14:38
I'd really be interested in seeing that Cav test administered, especially the 300lb bench press, the 10 mile run and the last two 400m "sprints".

Ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping: that is the sound of my BS meter going off. It might have been a test, or even a goal, but just how many were able to achieve this level of performance-especially in a military unit where your ability to develop a program and stick to it between deployments and normal training cycles would enable someone to maintain that level of performance.

Surgicalcric
06-30-2008, 14:46
It's probably not too popular with a lot of soldiers - YOGA, man! While weightlifting I sustained far less injuries, muscle pulls, and increased my cardio stamina and strength by doing 15-45 minutes of yoga excercises a few times a week. It keeps you better balanced and more flexible than any other stretchig routines I'd ever done.

I will stick with the weights, pool, and short distance sprinting. Thank you for the suggestion though... :rolleyes:

Crip

MVS2
06-30-2008, 14:59
I will stick with the weights, pool, and short distance sprinting. Thank you for the suggestion though... :rolleyes:

Crip


You're welcome

DrVudoo
06-30-2008, 20:56
I agree.

I know of few non-pro athletes who can bench over 300, and fewer still who can also run 10 miles in 70 minutes.

Was that a cav unit, or a pro football team?

TR

Of course not everyone in the Unit passes. The Unit standard is at least 20% pass everything. They give you a few days no PT after this. 1-40 Cav also have a 30 mile ruck march. Probably not that far for some people on this board, but it is for me. :eek:

Surgicalcric
06-30-2008, 21:38
Of course not everyone in the Unit passes. The Unit standard is at least 20% pass everything...

What the hell is the purpose of a PT test that only 20% pass (which I find to be a liberal estimate). The events sound a bit ridiculous to me, but what do I know...

Crip

DrVudoo
06-30-2008, 23:24
What the hell is the purpose of a PT test that only 20% pass (which I find to be a liberal estimate). The events sound a bit ridiculous to me, but what do I know...

Crip

lol I never came up with this cav fit test. You have to go higher up in the food chain. I'm just a little pion in an ocean full of sharks. I agree this Cav Fit test is a bit ridiculous.

GratefulCitizen
07-01-2008, 11:25
40 yard dash 5 seconds minimum
Flat Bench 300lbs
10 mile run 70 minutes minimum


At different times in my life, I have exceeded each of these standards by a reasonable margin.

To do them all at the same time would be extremely difficult to achieve, even for an excellent athlete.
The training for the 40 yard dash and 10 mile run actually work against each other.

Someone who has long arms and short legs would be at a substantial disadvantage when trying to perform the bench and 10 mile standards.
It would not accurately reflect the fitness or ability of such a person.

To consistently maintain just these three would require a ridiculous investment of time for training, and would require substantial down-time between training sessions to avoid injury.
There would likely be better ways to spend that time.

Having done the training required to pass each of these standards one-at-a-time, I find the idea of requiring simultaneous performance to be absurd.

Something is wrong with these numbers.

<edit>
Shouldn't the 40 yd dash and 10 mile run times be maximums?

Razor
07-01-2008, 14:19
If the intent was to create a very difficult test that few could pass, then it seems the Cav Test hit the mark.

Of course, the designer of the test completely ignored the minimum characteristics of a good "goal": specific, attainable and realistic.

Ret10Echo
07-01-2008, 14:33
What the hell is the purpose of a PT test that only 20% pass (which I find to be a liberal estimate). The events sound a bit ridiculous to me, but what do I know...

Crip

It goes with the hat that flips up when you step on the spur....:D

Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-01-2008, 14:45
It goes with the hat that flips up when you step on the spur....:D

Perhaps the running events were mounted:D

Ret10Echo
07-01-2008, 19:04
Perhaps the running events were mounted:D

Actually that comment came out of a discussion at the NCO club one evening. There were some fellows in Stetsons explaining this land-navigation course to us....we were somewhat impressed up to the time he mentioned the vehicle.:rolleyes:

The evening went downhill from there.

stickey
07-01-2008, 21:15
Perhaps the running events were mounted:D


:D You may have intended it to mean mounted as in vehicles, but my first thought was a bunch of cav guys on horseback racing each other... I just made a fool out of myself laughing at this one...people are now wondering what i am doing...as i should be doing something else. Very funny , good one.

MILON
07-03-2008, 03:19
I agree with all of you that the Cav test is unrealistic and actually very dangerous. Can we say "LOD"? I just finished my BS in athletic training and spent some time working as a strength coach and this test pretty much goes against everything I have learned. The only way I can see this being applied is administering it over an extended period of time.

Getting back to the new army PT, I think its LONG overdue. My experience is from the guard side, where I would say the majority of soldiers simply train for that annual APFT. Its sad, I know. Training for an APFT and training for combat are two separate things and implementing a dynamic training program that is specific to battle drills is the key.

It was mentioned earlier this new program will cause more injuries and I can see why one may think that. However, if a soldier is progressed properly, it should decrease injury rates in the long run. The Army currently has a huge problem with sports injuries. Athletes, which soldiers are, in the civilian world train sport specific to prevent injuries in their competition. Soldiers should train for combat to minimize the risk of injuries during combat and drills.

With any luck the new Army PT will teach NCOs and officers how to design basic programs and the concepts behind it. I think thats the key. The 21-20 had some good basic information in it, but methods in performance enhancement and injury prevention have improved since then. Soldiers DESERVE the best we can offer them.

It was mentioned earlier, but I never saw a reply on it. Does anyone know where to get a digital copy of the new PT manual? :lifter

Razor
07-03-2008, 10:15
With any luck the new Army PT will teach NCOs and officers how to design basic programs and the concepts behind it (sic).

They used to have the Master Fitness Trainer program, but I believe it went away a number of years ago.

Richard
07-03-2008, 10:30
Location: Bad Tolz, FRG, January 77; ODA outside doing morning PT in the snow wearing parkas over sweats, artic mittens, and Chippewa mountain boots; no sun in sight and colder than an endangered polar bear's testicles.

Question by young SGT to TM SGT: 'Top, why are we out here doing PT instead of using the gym or the pool?'

Answer by TM SGT (Joe Alderman): 'Because we don't get paid to fight wars in an f'in gym.' :)

Richard

SF_BHT
07-03-2008, 11:40
Location: Bad Tolz, FRG, January 77; ODA outside doing morning PT in the snow wearing parkas over sweats, artic mittens, and Chippewa mountain boots; no sun in sight and colder than an endangered polar bear's testicles.

Question by young SGT to TM SGT: 'Top, why are we out here doing PT instead of using the gym or the pool?'

Answer by TM SGT (Joe Alderman): 'Because we don't get paid to fight wars in an f'in gym.' :)

Richard

Such a true statement........

MILON
07-03-2008, 12:08
They used to have the Master Fitness Trainer program, but I believe it went away a number of years ago.

Yeah, I believe they did away with it as well. Crying shame too.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-03-2008, 14:02
Such a true statement........


Even more to the point, it comes from a real class act. Joe was one of the best.

Richard
07-03-2008, 20:41
Even more to the point, it comes from a real class act. Joe was one of the best.

Joe Alderman was the epitome of an SF soldier...and was lucky to make E-8. He was one of my heroes and 'damn good in the woods.' Unlike some, Joe would never lie to or for you...no matter what the answer was.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Onuma
07-17-2008, 11:46
Some sets require soldiers to exercise in their Army Combat Uniforms, wearing body armor and helmets with rifles slung across their backs.

I can't remember a time that I was in a combat environment with my rifle slung over my back. My rifle was in my hands, with the sling being merely an 'Oh Crap' contingent in case I stumbled, fell, etc. I only used it for chow time.




It's great that the Army wants to go in the right direction, but we'll see if POA = POI.

Blitzzz (RIP)
07-21-2008, 00:06
Guys, I see much interest in conditioning the troops. I have been in SF for 19years and 4.5 years in Combat engineers. All was as you all know very physical and filled with many different routines or systems of exercises to make us fit for battle. I know the system broohed here will not work. You all know that no system covering a 12 month time frame will work in physical fitness. Units move around and the ever changing tide of new troops turnovers means no progressing scheduled system can be maintained.
What I believe is the injury percentages will always be high when bodyweight + is used to exercise.
Basic premise is MUSCLE is fed first and most and becomes stronger much sooner than the less fed tendon and ligaments. The results of which is tendonitis , ligament straons and ruptures of either.
Ideally building strength and allowing connective tissue to grow along with the muscle will reduce injuries greatly. There is a method of doing this that allows all troops to strengthen and increase endurance and remain injury free doing so. It is presently being used at Ft. Sill too bring the troops that fail basic PT up and enables them to pass their PT test. Regular units are not being exposed to it yet as it is a hard sell to the CSCS guys involved in development of Fitness programs. For anyone interested in the system it is in this web site under "Blitz workout " and can be downloaded. I don't knoe how but you can ask DON. Blitz

BMT (RIP)
07-21-2008, 03:56
I hope to have a copy of the new PT program this week.

BMT

Dan
07-23-2008, 21:29
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/files/iet_standardized_pt_guide.pdf

BMT (RIP)
07-25-2008, 05:49
Dan has posted a link to a pdf file for the new PT program.

IET Standardized PT Guide

BMT

Arwr
07-28-2008, 03:47
PT Test: Rucksack march (12 miles, 75 lb. rucksack, in under 3 hours). Followed by push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups. And, a 100M swim in boots and fatigues.

Sprints need to be emphasised in PT, but time does not seem a good test factor. And, long distant running seems more conducive to running away from a fight than to one.

Arwr

BMT (RIP)
07-28-2008, 04:26
I think IET say's it all!

Bubba and Mary Jane couldn't pass your test.

HELLS BELLS this problem has been around since the '60s.

Way back then it was called March Fracture's.

Mom give's Bubba X amount of dollar's to go get milk and bread, "hey Mom where are your car key's". Bubba wouldn't walk a block if you beat him!!

I saw the same crap in the '60's as a Drill Sgt.

:munchin

BMT

Scimitar
08-09-2008, 16:41
I find it interesting that the current APFT focuses heavily on Endurance Strength, but has no KPIs for Limit Strength, which I assume must have some importance operationally.

However I have seen a pre 2003 reference to a Bench-Press being part of an extended APFT for officers in MOS phase.

Why are there no Limit Strength events in the APFT or an extended APFT?


Scimitar

frostfire
08-09-2008, 18:07
Why are there no Limit Strength events in the APFT or an extended APFT?

Based on existing APFT threads:
- Greater chance of injury?
- Higher requirement for "expert" supervision?

Put the two (or more) together and you got greater expenditure>

Just my 0.00002 DM

Razor
08-09-2008, 22:11
Why are there no Limit Strength events in the APFT or an extended APFT?

What special equipment is required to conduct the current APFT? By my reckonning, the minimum is a stopwatch, and some clipboards and pencils if you want to get fancy.

The Army aphysical Fitness School explained during an IOBC briefing in the early 90s that the equipment factor was a major decision point for changing from the old 5-event test to the 3-event test.

Limit strength tests would require special equipment, would potentially be a big chokepoint if testing a large group (limited equipment vs. 30 - 200 bodies), and some chucklehead would inevitably challenge the "calibration" of the plates/device/equipment if they failed, thus requiring regular testing of equipment, or buying special "testing only" equipment.

That's my take, anyhow.

Scimitar
08-10-2008, 00:19
So, is there a tendancy for some soldiers to focus a little too much on "Max'ing" the Endurance APFT at the cost of Limit Strength?

Surely there's a good operational balance of the two?

(The only operational use for Limit Strength I can think of off the top of my head is the occasional Hand-to-Hand requirment, short distance wounded buddy carries, and moving equipment - two of which have more to do with technique then pure strength (I'm sure there's others))


Scimitar

GratefulCitizen
08-10-2008, 10:03
So, is there a tendancy for some soldiers to focus a little too much on "Max'ing" the Endurance APFT at the cost of Limit Strength?

Surely there's a good operational balance of the two?

(The only operational use for Limit Strength I can think of off the top of my head is the occasional Hand-to-Hand requirment, short distance wounded buddy carries, and moving equipment - two of which have more to do with technique then pure strength (I'm sure there's others))


Scimitar

Not sure where the conflict would exist.

Training for limit strength doesn't negatively affect short-term muscular endurance or anaerobic endurance.

In my experience, such training greatly enhanced short-term endurance.

YMMV.

Blitzzz (RIP)
08-10-2008, 23:50
Anybody interested in greatly improving their strength and over doubling their endurance should check the "blitz" download from Professional soldiers. I don't have the address but it in here somewhere. Dan posted it for SF use and it can be downloaded. I am it's reference and can answer any questions on it . I'll go find the link and put it in here with an edit. Blitz


I don't know how to post a like but if you go here you can download the blitz system.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...=Blitz+Workout

Blitz

Scimitar
08-11-2008, 01:20
Thanks for the answer gents,

I guess it comes down to a time thing. I find if I focus on one it does negate the other some what. But I'm still relatively new to top end PT.

Thanks for the link Blitzz

Scimitar

blue02hd
08-11-2008, 06:46
I can't remember a time that I was in a combat environment with my rifle slung over my back. My rifle was in my hands, with the sling being merely an 'Oh Crap' contingent in case I stumbled, fell, etc. I only used it for chow time.




It's great that the Army wants to go in the right direction, but we'll see if POA = POI.

Umm, Onuma, thats a bold statement to make in the forum your in. More SA and less posting until you can establish the immense amount of "Combat" you've seen. Slings are there for a reason, and are needed outside the chow line as well,,,

Loadsmasher
08-13-2009, 10:52
Just returned from the new Commanders Total Fitness course that is being offered as a troop school at Ft. Hood (and other posts). It's basically a week long immersion into the new PT program that was being discussed here. It focuses on explaining FM 3-22.20 (DRAFT) Army Physical Readiness Training. The instructor also leads the class through some of the conditioning exercises and a brief explanation of nutrition and other applicable manuals.

I have a digital copy of the draft manual if anyone is interested, or I could post it here (with proper instruction in small single-syllable words ;) ).

There are some major changes from the 2005 manual posted earlier written for BCT, OSUT and AIT. Specifically in the addition of conditioning drills geared toward functional strength (Log PT, Buddy carry, Strength Machines). It's also worth noting that a number of the drills are designed so that Soldiers initially perform them in PTs but progress to wearing ACUs and later add IBA, ACH and weapon.

Currently the APFT will remain unchanged until such time as the new PT program has had time demonstrate it effectiveness. At that point (supposedly) the Army would look at changing to a six event APFT.

I'll save my personal opinions for a later post.

LS

Richard
08-13-2009, 13:04
There are some major changes from the 2005 manual posted earlier written for BCT, OSUT and AIT. Specifically in the addition of conditioning drills geared toward functional strength (Log PT, Buddy carry, Strength Machines). It's also worth noting that a number of the drills are designed so that Soldiers initially perform them in PTs but progress to wearing ACUs and later add IBA, ACH and weapon.

Wellll now...shades of yesteryear for us FOGs...I'll bet they'll even go back outside and start doing PT again in the environment in which a soldier fight's - and it ain't in a gymnasium. :rolleyes:

And so it goes...;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin