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SF_BHT
05-28-2008, 17:34
Situation: Nurse working in a remote village in the Amazon Jungle.
This village does not have a well and they collect rain water to drink and to take a bath in. The village only has electricity for 4 hours each day.:confused:

I have a lot of knowledge of individual prep for my drinking water for Opns but I need help with recommendations on how I can help 2 nurses to have safe drinking water for the next year of their job in the jungle. The only source is a running brown river at the edge of the village no wells.

My dilemma is what is the best cost effective way to prepare drinking water for 2 Nurses working in a remote Jungle Village. It takes 2+ days by boat to get there and the final leg is bu small boat. Individual pumps like I use are not practical or cost effective. Lister bags are great to store water after it is made drinkable but I need a workable process (SF Field-craft type) that will give them a workable cheap way to obtain drinking water for them at their clinic.

I have a 50 gallon Plastic drum with a water tap and sealed lid for them to hold their water on site as they use clorox and strain out debriet........

I need some good old 18D and 18C help with this solution. Their clinic will benefit from this solution.

I am willing to put a system together for them and transportation if I can find a good way with local items and add on filters shipped from the US via APO.

PS: The Nurses are Locals and yes they are Hot:D I have known them for 3 years and they have to do 1 year before they are certified by the national health system. I already gave them a Tazer so some drunk Indian does not assault them. A lot of girls that do their 1 year in remote areas get raped and the government does not seam to care.

Thanks Bryan

Team Sergeant
05-28-2008, 18:32
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10819&highlight=water+purification&page=17

Theres a few water purification theads such as the one above.

I know there's a few better gagets on the market and I guess it would depend on how much water you are looking at purifying.

TS

SF_BHT
05-28-2008, 19:05
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10819&highlight=water+purification&page=17

Theres a few water purification theads such as the one above.

I know there's a few better gagets on the market and I guess it would depend on how much water you are looking at purifying.

TS


TS, I did a lot of searching and saw that one but none of the threads gave me a good solution for the long term.

1st We in the big city use DURASTILL and that boils the water and filters it OK for pre treated water. Down side is they do not have the energy to support it and it will not make enough in a short period of time.

2nd Something to process River Water to a point that a filter system can then treat it for drinking. Filters are going to be a premium and hard to get to them.

3rd Boiling it would have to be with a wood fire and would be a labor intensive process and hard to do so you would have enough.

My thoughts were some process to strain and filter the batch with possably a 2 drums process then treat it with Clorox and I could get them a filter like passably the PUR Dispenser for the final product. I am looking for one of those Medics or 18C's who can advise as to a field expedient process that will make sure they will not get some jungle bug with their process.

You know how those medics are they can scare you with all those Little bugs that get in you and make your health all F&%$d up for long periods of time.

Getting out the sediment seams to be the big issue to hurdle 1st and it needs to be done with local obtainable items.

My good old Kentucky field craft was to build a still and condense a good pure drinkable drink that would quench your thirst and kill all those little bugs as you drink. If all else fails you would be soooo drunk it would not matter...:D But it is really hard to get the Copper to build the Still to prepare the water.:D

:munchin

Peregrino
05-28-2008, 19:50
SF BHT - VITA, Village Technologies Handbook. I got my copy from a teammate in 3/7 back in the 80s. This and other useful info is available at:
http://journeytoforever.org/at_link.html

The sediment filters they discuss will go a long way towards prolonging the life of any ceramic filters used for final purification (technically micro-filtration vs. purification).

HTH

SF_BHT
05-29-2008, 08:41
Looks good Hope to get a good read from it.

Hope to get a lot more options from this thread to compare.:munchin

The Reaper
05-29-2008, 09:33
I knew about VITA, but had not seen the old books Peregrino provided the link to. Looks like a great read, well done!

Personally, if I were in that situation, I would look to set up a multi stage system (probably in the ubiquitous 5 gallon buckets) with the water being poured through a cloth or paper filter to catch all of the big chunks, into a layered sand and charcoal filter in the first bucket with holes in the bottom dumping into a cleaner bucket with the ceramic filter in the bottom that fed into a final stage, where I would consider adding a hypochlorite (powdered pool chlorine solution) treatment, depending on a good look at what bugs, if any, made it that far.

A few minutes with a good welder/carpenter/fabricator could probably yield a nice rack or stand for the four buckets, the last bucket (as supplied by the filter manufacturer) has a spigot on the side for dispensing.

All of this, minus the ceramic filters and HTH, should be available at almost any remote site, produce a reasonable quantity of treated water for two people to drink and cook with, and would be easy to maintain in the boonies.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

Peregrino
05-29-2008, 09:35
Sounds like they need a Team to do a MEDRET with some CA stuff thrown in FTFOI. :D The VITA manual is oriented towards 1960s era Peace Corps goals/resources. Success is directly correlated to leadership provided by the "volunteer". I don't know how successful the nurses will be if the village is as primitive as it sounds. (People have to want change before anything positive happens.) My recommendation is a dug or driven well with a hand pump. Wells solve the sediment problems. An electric pump into a water tower takes advantage of the four hours of power and allows reserve capacity for extended outages plus dwell time for chlorination. USAID should have grants to help with the infrastructure. Can't have too much water at a health clinic.

Team Sergeant
05-29-2008, 09:41
Sounds like they need a Team to do a MEDRET with some CA stuff thrown in FTFOI. :D The VITA manual is oriented towards 1960s era Peace Corps goals/resources. Success is directly correlated to leadership provided by the "volunteer". I don't know how successful the nurses will be if the village is as primitive as it sounds. (People have to want change before anything positive happens.) My recommendation is a dug or driven well with a hand pump. Wells solve the sediment problems. An electric pump into a water tower takes advantage of the four hours of power and allows reserve capacity for extended outages plus dwell time for chlorination. USAID should have grants to help with the infrastructure. Can't have too much water at a health clinic.

That was going to be my next recommendation, get a well dug, especially if it's going to be a long term or reaccouring mission.

The Reaper
05-29-2008, 09:50
Just a thought here.

I was on my umpteenth deployment to Latin America and we were doing our usual assistance missions with fixing up local schools, med facilities, etc.

It was a Saturday morning and we had a bunch of American soldiers down at the local school painting it.

I looked around outside during a break, and the school grounds were full of the kids' parents, watching the gringos paint their kids' school.

Now don't get me wrong, I think assistance to the indig is a big part of what we do, and the kids certainly deserved it. But if the parents of the kids didn't think the school needed paint badly enough to grab a U.S.G. purchased brush and pitch in on a day off, I am not sure that we should.

In the future, we agreed to do the technical and major mechanical work, and to purchase materials for a "community day", if the locals wanted to help clean up and paint, then we would work alongside them. If not, it was no big deal.

Probably back to the old "teach a man to fish...." line.

Just my .02.

TR

SF_BHT
05-29-2008, 10:45
Just a thought here.

I was on my umpteenth deployment to Latin America and we were doing our usual assistance missions with fixing up local schools, med facilities, etc.

It was a Saturday morning and we had a bunch of American soldiers down at the local school painting it.

I looked around outside during a break, and the school grounds were full of the kids' parents, watching the gringos paint their kids' school.

Now don't get me wrong, I think assistance to the indig is a big part of what we do, and the kids certainly deserved it. But if the parents of the kids didn't think the school needed paint badly enough to grab a U.S.G. purchased brush and pitch in on a day off, I am not sure that we should.

In the future, we agreed to do the technical and major mechanical work, and to purchase materials for a "community day", if the locals wanted to help clean up and paint, then we would work alongside them. If not, it was no big deal.

Probably back to the old "teach a man to fish...." line.

Just my .02.

TR


TR you are so right. We would also go in down here and the local military or the locals in the Pueblo would stand and watch. I would then go get them and say if you want to make you home nice you have to work and help us. Usually they would pitch in. One time in Honduras the Locals said we were there to do the work as promised by the MAAG a month before. Well we stopped what we were doing and packed up. They were outraged. We went back to the hooch and I got the MAAG on the phone and had a discussion with the Idiot that said the we were doing all the Painting/digging/etc and told him that he had F$#@d it all up and he had no right to make such stupid statements. He was some dumb FAO. He actually came out 2 days later and talked to the Mayor and School Master and got the village involved. They will not value the help if they do not have a hand/stake in it. Just look at the Projects in the US. They could care less about most of them and they are in a disastrous state.

TS/Peregrino
I am thinking about working with passably AID to get a well for the village. I have dropped off a message for the POC on the other building.

You guys are making those cobwebs shake and bringing up memories that were a little foggy.

If anyone else has ideas I am open for more to make the best decision for the girls. Thanks:munchin

greenberetTFS
06-07-2008, 13:06
[QUOTE=SF_BHT;211427]Situation: Nurse working in a remote village in the Amazon Jungle.
This village does not have a well and they collect rain water to drink and to take a bath in. The village on

JJ_BPK
06-14-2008, 15:33
Just stumbled on this at one of those joke sites,,

Has anyone tried these new Lifesaver Bottles,, may be a bit expensive, but they look like they would fill the position??

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/techinfo.html

It will remove bacteria, viruses, parasites, fungi and all other microbiological waterborne pathogens without using chemicals like iodine or chlorine which leave a distinctive foul taste.

LIFESAVER bottle produces filtered sterile drinking water quickly and easily.

It incorporates LIFESAVER systems’ unique FAILSAFE technology (another world first) which shuts off the bottle’s cartridge upon expiry, preventing contaminated water from being drunk.

With LIFESAVER bottle there is no need for tablets, boiling, chemicals, tubes, shaking, scrubbing, waiting or effort.

LIFESAVER bottle produces clean, sterile drinking water with no foul taste - fast!

Costing £230 ($460), the Lifesaver is not exactly cheap, but it is a world first, and we’re sure the price reflects the genuinely innovative R&D that went into its development.

The unit uses replaceable filters, which can treat about 4000 liters of water – five and a half years of usage if you drank 2 liters every day.

The filter is speedy, too - 750ml of water can be prepared in just under a minute.

And users can rest safe in the knowledge they’re getting maximum life out of the product without poisoning themselves, as the unit has a unique feature to shut itself off when the cartridge has expired.

Not only was it featured at Well-tech, it won ‘Best Technological Development for Future Soldier System Enhancement’ at Soldier Technology 2007.

D9
06-23-2008, 23:16
My 0.02, until you get a more permanent solution in place, like verified clean well-water, I think bleach is the best solution to your problem.

1.) It works.

2.) It's always available and cheap.

3.) It's something you can show the LN that they can use later b/c it's easy and available. If they don't choose to, their problem. But you've shown them an alternative.

Filter out the debris by some simple conventional means: fine wire strainer, cheesecloth, cotton, filter paper, etc.

Add bleach and let it sit. You get two 55 gal drums, fill one and treat it. Use it 24 hrs later while you're using the other one.

In very austere environments like that I would be wary of depending on a complicated system b/c of the availability of power or parts. Esp w/ expensive equipment that will likely be stolen if it is not continuously guarded.

Bleach works, is simple, cheap, and available. I would use it in the scenario you describe until something more permanent could be established. Sometimes the simple solution is the good solution.

The Reaper
06-24-2008, 07:58
Best way to make chlorine in a remote area is to use the STB like pool shock, as mentioned in one of the survival threads.

A LOT less weight, more compact, no "scent" or "fresheners", no serious shelf life issues like chlorine.

TR

Paslode
09-13-2008, 20:13
Just stumbled on this at one of those joke sites,,

Has anyone tried these new Lifesaver Bottles,, may be a bit expensive, but they look like they would fill the position??

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/techinfo.html

I saw the Lifesaver Bottle on the Fox News website today. Impressive to say the least! The $300 dollars was shocking until I saw the volume it produces and the contaminents is capable of removing.

I add that to my wish list for Santa.

Boomer-61
09-17-2008, 13:03
Has anyone used the Lifesaver Filter? It's stats are remarkable, so's that price.
This MSR unit is supposed to pump around a Gallon per minute. Haven't used it personally. I know this is getting away from the main thread of massive volumes of water but it would suffice for a smaller group. Price is better than the Lifesaver.

MSR WaterWorks Ceramic Filter

Was: $129.95
Now: $69.95


The MSR WaterWorks Ceramic removes more kinds of organisms without using added chemicals. It is the easiest filter to use and maintain. It is cost effective, too.

Removes 100% of bacteria and protozoa (like Giardia). Also removes many pesticides, industrial chemicals, and taste and odor compounds.



Features:

Relief Valve: Vents untreated water back out intake hose. Allows easier, more consistent pumping. Won't spray or leak untreated water.

Activated Block Carbon Inner-Core: Removes many chemicals, pesticides and other dissolved contaminants. Improves taste of water. Removes odors.

Adapter Base: Fits an MSR Dromedary Bag or Nalgene water bottle. Insures integrity of filtered water. Easy-to-use, efficient design. No accessory kit needed.

Opposing-Action Lever and Floating Piston: Easier to use than fatiguing "bike-style" pumps. Patented design.

Ceramic Filter Element: Fine .6 micron mechanical filter. Easy to clean, for superior recovery. Enhances filter longevity.

0.2 Micron Membrane Cartridge: Removes 100% of bacteria, regardless of concentration. Most effective portable treatment available, without adding iodine.

Field Maintainable: Lets you troubleshoot and maintain filter in the field. Replacement parts available, for ultimate longevity.

Weight 17.3oz/490g

Colour: Black

HOLLiS
09-17-2008, 13:20
Sodium hyprochlorite, active ingredient in pool shock and bleach will purify water, vegetables and fruits. Water needs to have turbidity removed, a simple coffee filter can do that, then the sodium hyprochlorite is added. This is the same stuff municipal water departments use. Should be available.

Aeration/time will remove the chlorine. Also it is stabilizer in story water. Hydrogen peroxide will change the free chlorine to the chloride salt.


Probably the least expensive water sanitation method out there.

Will not remove chemicals, it just kills stuff in the water.


Filtration system also have to be maintained.

Ambush Master
10-04-2008, 14:54
Just received this Link!! If it's already been brought up, then disregard!!

http://www.lapolicegear.com/steripen-handheld-water-purifiers.html

xparallax
12-14-2008, 17:32
for what its worth ( i am currently in the amazon jungle (eugene oregon) writing this.) I am using various water sterilization chemicals as well as the msr ceramic filter,, the msr ceramic filter is very labor intensive and produces about a quart every 10 minutes. still occasionally get sick, but have cypro to counter act the worst of it..:munchin

SF_BHT
12-14-2008, 17:37
for what its worth ( i am currently in the amazon jungle writing this.) I am using various water sterilization chemicals as well as the msr ceramic filter,, the msr ceramic filter is very labor intensive and produces about a quart every 10 minutes. still occasionally get sick, but have cypro to counter act the worst of it..:munchin

Well thanks BUT......... Re-Read your e-mail that you got when you registered.
Post your intro as your first Post in the appropriate place .:confused:....... Oh Shit you volated the first directive you were given. Work on your SA Please and follow the rules, this is not Miliatry.com.

Then Fill out your profile as required. YOu are not starting out very well. If this is hard you may not survive the Jungle...

After you do that read Search, and read some more.

lssah2025
12-16-2008, 05:43
This might be an option..

JJ_BPK
12-16-2008, 06:11
This might be an option..

Do you have some details??

I tried to zoom in and to see the filter material,, it appears they use a series of different size stones & sand??

SF_BHT
12-16-2008, 06:34
Do you have some details??

I tried to zoom in and to see the filter material,, it appears they use a series of different size stones & sand??

Looks like the same concept I used but I did it with 35 and Gal PVC Barrels and PVC Pipe.

Sand, Rock, Charcoal, etc....

JJ_BPK
12-16-2008, 06:41
Sand, Rock, Charcoal, etc....

Then this is a filter system for sediment??

Or do the minerals(iron&copper&??) in the components to do a natural ionization/sterilization of sorts??

lssah2025
12-16-2008, 07:00
PM sent.

From what I understand good microbes start to grow in the sand and take about 3 weeks to fully multiply, then they eat the bad microbes in the dirty water and the 4 sediment filter system traps the other particulates.

A system like this is used in modern water purification in the US, but to a larger scale, and chlorine and fluorine is added to the end product before going out into the main lines..

SF_BHT
12-16-2008, 07:38
PM sent.

From what I understand good microbes start to grow in the sand and take about 3 weeks to fully multiply, then they eat the bad microbes in the dirty water and the 4 sediment filter system traps the other particulates.

A system like this is used in modern water purification in the US, but to a larger scale, and chlorine and fluorine is added to the end product before going out into the main lines..

You are right and the final holding barrel gets chlorine to finish of any hearty bugs that make it through.

Team Sergeant
12-16-2008, 08:01
for what its worth ( i am currently in the amazon jungle writing this.) I am using various water sterilization chemicals as well as the msr ceramic filter,, the msr ceramic filter is very labor intensive and produces about a quart every 10 minutes. still occasionally get sick, but have cypro to counter act the worst of it..:munchin

I didn't know that Eugene, OR, US was a part of the Amazon jungle. C-ya. And have a very SF day.

Team Sergeant

SF_BHT
12-16-2008, 08:07
I didn't know that Eugene, OR, US was a part of the Amazon jungle. C-ya. And have a very SF day.

Team Sergeant

Don't tell me that our SA challenged boy is in the US........

He has been chastised by me here, on the intro thread and now busted by you. I for-see a problem child.

Young man I would advise you to CONFESS NOW.:munchin

lssah2025
12-16-2008, 08:07
I guess if you wanted to improve the efficiency or purification process you could add a layer of charcoal, then take the water that you get out of this sand filter system and store it in another type of container. Add a little Chlorine or use a MCR or other filter and viola, hopefully you have a quick easy filtration system.. that will keep the GI bugs away...

Team Sergeant
12-16-2008, 08:37
Don't tell me that our SA challenged boy is in the US........

He has been chastised by me here, on the intro thread and now busted by you. I for-see a problem child.

Young man I would advise you to CONFESS NOW.:munchin

Hey brother, idiot boy cannot answer, not here anyway, I banned his stupid self.;)

I tracked "it's" IP address with a few different IP trackers, all came back to Eugene, Oregon.

Idiot boy, this ain't military.com, or myspace, and we ain't that stupid. Don't bother sending me an email asking for forgiveness, it won't work.

Team Sergeant

Sten
12-16-2008, 09:41
for what its worth ( i am currently in the amazon jungle (eugene oregon) writing this.) I am using various water sterilization chemicals as well as the msr ceramic filter,, the msr ceramic filter is very labor intensive and produces about a quart every 10 minutes. still occasionally get sick, but have cypro to counter act the worst of it..:munchin

My daily drinking water in Vanuatu (not the Amazon but a Jungle by any other name) came out of a river with livestock and humans up stream from me. I used a MSR "water works" aka "ceramic"filter for 2 years and it was fast and 100% reliable. I never got sick it, it required simple preventive maintenance and the filter never went down. I know this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread and I apologize for that but I could not let a bash on MSR go uncorrected.

lssah2025
12-16-2008, 11:39
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/lssah2025/sandfilter.jpg

:munchin

Link for larger pic.

Lowlight7
12-17-2008, 19:35
I don't know what resources you have available in the area or in your financing, so here goes.

Have you considered SODIS (www.sodis.ch)? No frills but has the smallest equipment requirement. At the very least it's a temporary solution until a better method can be put in place.

WHO also has an extensive library of info on water disinfection for third world environments (http://www.who.int/household_water/resources/en/)

If it were me I'd bring a MIOX, gravity filter, and 3 cases of batteries. :cool:

SRGross
12-23-2008, 14:17
I have used the old system, Boil the Water, and let it hit a slightly tipped foil, pot cover into a cup or pot, nothing fancy, but it works, I use Bug Juice and Peanut butter mixed together, produces blue, smokleless flame, then there is always C4;)
Spent 3 yrs in Central and South America, never got sick from water, MREs are a different story:eek:

Calvengeance
01-13-2009, 23:14
A recent report I had to do on the viability of NASA's phenomenal budget led me to information about a nanomesh filter they've been using on the space station.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2008/er_4.html

It seemed impressive to me, though at this point I really have no idea what I'm talking about. All I could glean was that, damn, 99.99% is pretty close to 100%, and 5 gallons per minute with gravity sounds pretty useful.

I just checked their website to see about pricing for you but it's down. Maybe it'll be up when you look.

http://www.seldontechnologies.com/


Good luck and I hope it works out for you. It's really interesting to read about this humanitarian aspect of Special Forces. :D

Brush Okie
01-13-2009, 23:49
EDIT: I found this

http://www.fortlewis.edu/academics/school_arts_sciences/physics_engineering/ewb_webpage/Current%20Web%20Page%20Supporting%20Docs/BSF/Basic%20info%20on%20BSF.htm

SF_BHT
01-14-2009, 05:26
Thanks All. I have built a system for them as stated but the additional info helps for any future upgrades to them. I have learned a lot from the high end to the low end basic systems. NASA has great things but they would never work in then amazon with filthy environmental effects.

bost1751
08-30-2009, 11:37
I recently pruchased the Lifesaver water purification bottle to use in the vacation spots I seem to end up in. Such as now, Bombay, one of the most poluted huge cities in the world with pretty bad water. i have used it since returning from a week back home. So far it has worked well. there is a slight hint of chlorine taste. it will save me huge on not purchasing bottled water here for my last 5 months.

Golf1echo
12-29-2010, 17:12
Looks like it has been covered..... The Bio Sand filters work well and can be built in different scales. The biology left on top of the sand does most of the work. If testing shows contaminates remaining you could purify the treated water unless it was chemically contaminated. Here is one example of many such filters which are used in remote 3rd world countries every day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YeNvglOd-I

Here is a better explanation and system I am more familiar with, perhaps one could even work with this org.? The only other thing I might suggest would be a silt tank if water source had high debris or silt content. A trough like tank that untreated water entered allowing settling to occur before water entered the filter would prolong the life of the unit. The diffusion element is important so as not to disturb the top layer when water is put into the filter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0xf3mRbJM&NR=1