View Full Version : Troy Trek-Who Does It?
alfromcolorado
05-20-2008, 09:06
To Any:
Pertaining to the Troy Trek... First, not sure what it is and I have heard that only "O"s are doing it during SFQC.
Is this still a part of the Q Course and if so, is it for Os and NCOs or just Os?
Would also like to discuss some standards for the Land Nav portion of Assessment off line by PM.
This is for a Q Course for the Hungarian Defense Force.
Thanks
Al
The only Troy Trek I know of is the one my Wife and Kids do. But thats land Nav on Horseback. Never heard any part of the Q-Course called Trekking.
Back in the 80's the O's did it. They also went to Gettysburg for a TOUT.
I have no Idea if they still do it.
Chairborne64
05-20-2008, 13:26
Troy Trek used to be done by O's as the last event during the old Phase II (MOS Training). It was basically a 72 hour solo cross country land navigation exercise. It was significantly modified when BG(R) Butler was the Traing Group Commander and was eventually taken out of the Q-course.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-20-2008, 13:36
[QUOTE=Chairborne64;210564]It was basically a 72 hour solo cross country land navigation exercise. QUOTE]
Actually it was a combination land nav, military stakes, and integrity check.
Chairborne64
05-20-2008, 14:30
That is very true it did have a military stakes event at each point. It was a significant emotional event back then with a failure rate that sometimes approached 40%. I stand corrected.
Ohhhh that Trek. Thats what the O's always seemed most concerned with passing. Why did they get rid of it
That is very true it did have a military stakes event at each point. It was a significant emotional event back then with a failure rate that sometimes approached 40%. I stand corrected.
It was also referred to as "Officer's stakes" by many.
I vaguely remember an incident of one student having his buddies from a previous class picking him up. Then driving him to a few of his points. They got caught. I would guess this was around 1983-84.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-20-2008, 18:28
I vaguely remember an incident of one student having his buddies from a previous class picking him up..
There were dumber things than that. As I mentioned it was also an integrity check. You could get a pretty good look at folks who would take short cuts and cheat if they thought they could get away with it. You cannot imagine how many folks bitched about thinking that they were being "gut checked" all over again. It was very disappointing having to sit an officer down and tell him that winning the beret was nothing compared to wearing it and that I could not trust them to make the right decisions when no one was looking over their shoulder I sure as hell could not trust them with an A-Team.
Troy Trek used to be done by O's as the last event during the old Phase II (MOS Training). It was basically a 72 hour solo cross country land navigation exercise. It was significantly modified when BG(R) Butler was the Traing Group Commander and was eventually taken out of the Q-course.
By "eventually" you mean sometime after the late 90s, right? ;) I thought it was a great event, for many of the reasons COL M mentioned. IIRC, we lost over 40%.
My class did Trek in the mountains of Pisgah National Forest. It certainly was a gut check and a lot of guys were broken off. Absolutely beautiful country; at the time, however, I was far more concerned about moving to my next point than appreciating the flora and fauna.
I am sorry to learn that SWCS has discontinued it in the SFQC. Along with SFAS and Robin Sage, Trek was a defining moment for me in the proverbial quest for the Green Beret.
alfromcolorado
05-21-2008, 02:57
Does anyone hear know which year it was canned?
And thanks for all the interesting comments and history... Didn't think I would spark so much traffic!!
Al
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-21-2008, 05:21
Does anyone hear know which year it was canned?l
You would probably have to ask those in charge during the time but, intimately knowing the climate of the times, I would imagine it became about numbers. Code was also dropped during that time for the same reason, folks were not making it through the program. It probably was a reflection of the times where leadership was replaced by management and successful management is measured by statistics that could be displayed graphically by Harvard Graphics the forerunner of power point slides. I could see it coming when I was there and fought it ,apparently to no avail.
Chairborne64
05-21-2008, 05:53
The Trek went out around 97-98. COL M is correct that there was an incredible push for numbers coming out of the Q-course at the time. BG(R) Butler tried to institute a new standard where each O was evaluated on the effort he gave. It soon became obvious to the O's that you didn't have to do much and you would still get a go. That was pretty much the end of the Trek. Several years later their were efforts to bring it back but they never made much traction.
alfromcolorado
05-21-2008, 11:29
The Trek went out around 97-98. COL M is correct that there was an incredible push for numbers coming out of the Q-course at the time. BG(R) Butler tried to institute a new standard where each O was evaluated on the effort he gave. It soon became obvious to the O's that you didn't have to do much and you would still get a go. That was pretty much the end of the Trek. Several years later their were efforts to bring it back but they never made much traction.
Roger, thanks...
It is amazing that I don't remember hearing about it until 10 years after I retired. Of course, what Os had to do to graduate never really came up in team conversations... It was usually something like "Hey sir, isn't it your turn to buy the beer?"
The Trek went out around 97-98. COL M is correct that there was an incredible push for numbers coming out of the Q-course at the time. BG(R) Butler tried to institute a new standard where each O was evaluated on the effort he gave. It soon became obvious to the O's that you didn't have to do much and you would still get a go. That was pretty much the end of the Trek. Several years later their were efforts to bring it back but they never made much traction.
Just he mention of that name explains a lot. I had a friend who was assigned to SFAS during his tenor. Every student he recommended for drop in SFAS. Was reinstated and given the ok to attend the Q-Course. They eventually started to pass just about everyone.
Like said above. The Q-Course is where you are given the Beret/Tab. You eventually have to earn the right to wear it forever. There is no perfect selection course out there. It's what the people who serve in the unit selection is for. That make it unique.
The Trek went out around 97-98. COL M is correct that there was an incredible push for numbers coming out of the Q-course at the time. BG(R) Butler tried to institute a new standard where each O was evaluated on the effort he gave. It soon became obvious to the O's that you didn't have to do much and you would still get a go. That was pretty much the end of the Trek. Several years later their were efforts to bring it back but they never made much traction.
It was in SFAS after that also for a few classes in 2000-2001 time frame, my class did not have a full team week, we had a split class, day or 2 of team events and then a 72hr Trek total movement was around 70-80k it was like a huge star event no roads could not be used and points between 10-25k apart.
The Trek went out around 97-98. COL M is correct that there was an incredible push for numbers coming out of the Q-course at the time. BG(R) Butler tried to institute a new standard where each O was evaluated on the effort he gave. It soon became obvious to the O's that you didn't have to do much and you would still get a go. That was pretty much the end of the Trek. Several years later their were efforts to bring it back but they never made much traction.
for sure in '96 it was still in, although in modified form from the "officer stakes" days. Distance and format sound about the same although no tasks to complete at the points.
We did ours at Ft. AP Hill at the end of PH II. It was supposed to be some tricky-dick thing where we all were supposed to think we were done with phase II and going back to Bragg only we really were going to do another event. That deception plan lasted about 2 min after we cornered our AST and asked him why in the hell did it matter to him what our ruck packing list was if we were simply moving back to bragg and getting some days off??;) His story sucked and he finally got tired of trying... so he told us to STFU and pack what he told us because we werent' done yet. :)
FWIW, I thought it was a great event. One of the more memorable of my training. Lots of time to think about what you are doing and why when you're alone in the woods under a ruck.
Lots of time to think about what you are doing and why when you're alone in the woods under a ruck.
that sounds like fun. hope I don't have to do that lol
that sounds like fun. hope I don't have to do that lol
Why not? Are you afraid of the conclusion that you'd come to? Or is it the 'being alone in the woods for several days under a ruck' part that you don't like?
that sounds like fun. hope I don't have to do that lol
That probably isn't a smart thing to say around here.
That probably isn't a smart thing to say around here.
Yahhhh Think:munchin
What was his roster number?
Yahhhh Think:munchin
What was his roster number?
Don't confuse things with more questions. I am still wondering why someone getting ready to go to the Q course and then ultimately into combat in Iraq or Afghanistan (well, if he makes it, that is...) would be aprehensive about a little walk in the woods by himself. :munchin
Don't confuse things with more questions. I am still wondering why someone getting ready to go to the Q course and then ultimately into combat in Iraq or Afghanistan (well, if he makes it, that is...) would be aprehensive about a little walk in the woods by himself. :munchin
I just wanted to get him a referral to the hospital because he must be afraid of his shadow and being alone in the woods.:p
MD2colo - Special forces work in small units and groups. Sometimes the small group is 1 SF guy in the woods/mountains or any where else. If you do not like working alone you need to Rethink your line of work.
Just my 2 cents
That type of event sounds like a true mental and physical challenge, if planned & executed properly. It's the kind of thing I like to try, just to see if I can hack it -- sounds like "fun" :cool:
And surely if you're not willing to spend some time alone in the woods & in the dark, I hope you consider a different line of work. It's one thing to have someone lighting a fire under you for the necessary level of motivation, it's entirely different to have to motivate yourself to get things done.
That type of event sounds like a true mental and physical challenge, if planned & executed properly. It's the kind of thing I like to try, just to see if I can hack it -- sounds like "fun" :cool:.
And surely if you're not willing to spend some time alone in the woods & in the dark, I hope you consider a different line of work. It's one thing to have someone lighting a fire under you for the necessary level of motivation, it's entirely different to have to motivate yourself to get things done.
Thanks for resurrecting this thread (that originally started as a bunch of QPs talking about Troy Trek) and sharing that bit of advice. I guess SF_BHT (a QP talking from experience) who posed the same thing 9 days before you just wouldn't have gotten the point across.
Hopefully you can find another thread where a candidate/potential candidtate is getting a little mentoring from a QP and jump right in! Don't be shy!