Shotgun Barrel

[SF_VOL]

My brother in law sent me an e-mail with a couple questions about shotgun barrels. He's got an .870 and is looking into buying a short barrel for home defense. Here are his direct questions and comments:

1. Why would I want rifled sights instead of a bead sight? (much harder to find rifled sights on an 18.5" barrel)
2. Would there be any reason for me to get 'Breacher Barrel'?? (see pics) I know they are designed for 'entry breaching', but curious about home use for this barrel.

I've never used rifle sights on a shotgun. I always thought that was the beauty of a shotgun in close quarters...just point and shoot. But the answer to question 1 is pretty straight forward I guess...if you have the time to aim you have a better chance of hitting your target where you want. I really don't see the necessity or the point of having a "breacher barrel" for close quarters home security either. Maybe some of you have some other thoughts.

Any insight or opinions from you gun gurus?

[The Reaper]

If he regularly needs to use a shotgun to open the doors of his house, then he MIGHT have a need for it. Otherwise, it makes him look like an armchair commando (except to other armchair warriors).

The rifle sights are handy for shooting slugs. If he is not using slugs , he is better off with a bead or one of the various light gathering sights.

If he wants to dump money on a custom barrel, have him contact Hans Vang and get a Vang barrel for his 870. Then he will have a shotgun that will shoot some unbelievably tight patterns.

HTH.

TR

[JJ_BPK]

1. Why would I want rifled sights instead of a bead sight? (much harder to find rifled sights on an 18.5" barrel)

2. Would there be any reason for me to get 'Breacher Barrel'?? (see pics) I know they are designed for 'entry breaching', but curious about home use for this barrel.



I personally like a raised rib with two(2) beads on a short barrel. The rib promotes eye alignment and the beads give you a rudimentary sight.. If he has plans to hunt deer or turkey,, rifle sights might be better..

There are a couple reasons to put a breaching gizmo on your brothers shotgun

1)WOW factor,, it will impress the ladies,, and his buds

2)Medical Insurance,, a breacher is not a flash hider not is it a muzzle brake,, it's there to dissipate some of the energy that comes out the business end,, hopefully so it doesn't blow back into the shooters face & body,, when the device is placed against a hard surface..

3)Night Illumination Device,, Any time you put a device on the end of a shortened barrel, other than a flash hider, that device will tend to spread the un-burnt power into a 100,000 watt lighting device,, effectively blinding both the shooter & shoootee,, ego: promotes poor SA.. (c the 3rd pic in my album,, AMD-65 w/ 12.5" barrel, 7.62x39, at dusk,, 3 ft ball of fire) and if your using NV,, a supper wow,, eh??

4)Just cause he wants one,, nuff said..

My album of miscellaneous toys, feel free to copy, pls don't link..

http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/dkkuMXQm/3794157/1782973

Good Luck

[Ambush Master]

There is also a reason that Beads are used. They are easier to acquire when quick response to a moving object is the mission.

Take care.
Martin

[Peregrino]

Your BiL also needs to research OAL requirements. Most breacher barrels I've seen/used were short enough to be destructive devices, i.e. required licensing. Personally, I don't feel a need for one on my home defense gun. I'm sticking with the 18" rifle sight barrel on my 870. Bought it at Bass Pro Shop (factory barrel - relatively cheap, no legal issues) and kept the original bead sight barrel for skeet practice. Tell him to spend the extra money on a SureFire forend so he can see what's going bump in the night and leave the rest to the airsofters.

[SF_VOL]

Very nice. I agree with each of you and appreciate your responses. You hit it on the head Reaper...he is one of these guys who just recently got into guns, has plenty of money to spend on them, and wants to have anything that looks cool...ie. Armchair commando.

Thanks again guys.

[Soft Target]

My 870 has a 20" barrel with bead. I chose that to accommodate an eight round tubular magazine extension.

[rudelsg2]

You could poke his eye out if you decided not to shoot a perp with the sharp point knubs of that "breacher barrel". That is what a breacher barrel is suppose to look like? All this time I never knew we were using the wrong type of shotgun barrel to breach doors. :rolleyes:

[Razor]

I may very well be wrong, but I believe I heard it was designed that way (with the teeth, expansion chamber and slots) so you could make direct contact with the surface of what you were blasting and still have the necessary stand-off.

[kachingchingpow]

Shotgun nut here with stupid question... why can't a breacher just be an extended/ported choke tube (ala turkey hunting) with the teeth on the end? The one in the pic actually looks like a tube.

+1 on the Van comp barrels. I've shot an unchoked 18" VC along side of a very tightly choked turkey gun with 24" barrel. It'll defy what you think you know about patterning. Softball sized pattern out to 30 yards. Very pricey though.

Just a quick thought, and then I'll step back in lane. I picked up a Mossberg 500 20ga youth turkey gun for my son last spring. It has a very short barrel, and the stock is cut back to 12" Length of Pull. With it comes spacers, and recoil pads that allow you to add LOP to the gun as the kid get's older. A full sized barrel, and stock coupon for $50 off come with it. My point is... this gun is very "handy" feeling.... short, light, camo'd with fiber sites. When I took it down to the shortest LOP the first thing I thought of was that it would make a great home defense weapon, particularly if my wife ever had to grab it. 20ga is nothing to snicker at... there's plenty of 3" mag loads that will absolutely knock the dust off someone, and a 20ga sabot slug is serious. Given that the weapon is light, it tends to be a little "kicky", particularly with 3" mags. They're right at $300 out the door.

Just a thought.

[rudelsg2]

I may very well be wrong, but I believe I heard it was designed that way (with the teeth, expansion chamber and slots) so you could make direct contact with the surface of what you were blasting and still have the necessary stand-off.

O.K. sounds plausable, but Hatton rounds always worked fine for me without this device (in training and in combat), but I was only trained at Range 37, so maybe I have been needing this special widget all these years and never realized it till now.

I've always made direct contact with the door and frame and I never knew a Hatton round needed "standoff". I'm just jealous; another widget I should have created for guys to spend their money on because of a perceived need.

[TheShootist]

Is that choke on the breacher barrel made for inflicting pain on bg's like the Surefire flashlights with the points on the bezel?

[rudelsg2]

Is that choke on the breacher barrel made for inflicting pain on bg's like the Surefire flashlights with the points on the bezel?

It is to prevent barrel slippage on the breach site. They are suppose to "bite" into the door and frame.

[Razor]

I've always made direct contact with the door and frame and I never knew a Hatton round needed "standoff". I'm just jealous; another widget I should have created for guys to spend their money on because of a perceived need.

CDI solution looking for a problem, brother. ;)

[The Reaper]

Is that choke on the breacher barrel made for inflicting pain on bg's like the Surefire flashlights with the points on the bezel?

The "choke" on a shotgun is inside the barrel.

TR

[TheShootist]

Yes sir. I thought I saw a line right past the bead in the closeup photo that looked like the end of a barrel and the start of an extended choke. I was guessing that thing on the end would screw into the same threads a choke would. But now looking at the photo I'm noticing a pretty significant flare in the end of the barrel.

[DbeforeD]

I’m sorry for awaking a old thread, but I used the ‘search’ button and this one popped up. After I polled the QP’s, regular Army, Combat Control, PJ’s, and LEO’s I know about what kind of shotgun to buy for home defense; they recommended that Remington 870 or a Ithaca. So away I went to a local gun store to add to my small collection. When I arrived at said gun store I asked to see an 870. They asked me what I was going to use it for, hunting or home defense. I told them “I have an old Smith and Wesson 20ga. for bird hunting, so show me the meanest looking tactical shotgun you have. You know, before I can’t buy one anymore.” The guy behind the counter handed me a 870 desert recon, with guess what, a ‘breach barrel’. I have no problem with the barrel besides the fact that it scratches everything it touches. However, when I took it to try it out and shoot clay pidgins when I went to Utah, it would freeze after I discharged a round. I would get one, maybe two rounds off before the slide wouldn’t come back. It took me grabbing the slide in both hands and slamming the butt on the ground just to eject the spent shell. I cycled it without rounds, no problems. I cycled it with rounds without shooting it, no problems. Went back to the line and shot at some pidgins, bang, and frozen. I took it apart and lubricated the action, still sticks after discharge. The breach release in front of the trigger wouldn’t depress unless with some force, but even with it depressed, wouldn’t cycle. Now my friends joke saying that if I know how to shoot it, I should only need one shot, but anyone can see that this is a problem. Any help with this would be appreciated. Oh, and I haven’t tried to use any other kind of ammunition with it beside the bird shot we used at the shoot. I don’t know if that is a variable of not.


Sgt. V

[Team Sergeant]

I’m sorry for awaking a old thread, but I used the ‘search’ button and this one popped up. After I polled the QP’s, regular Army, Combat Control, PJ’s, and LEO’s I know about what kind of shotgun to buy for home defense; they recommended that Remington 870 or a Ithaca. So away I went to a local gun store to add to my small collection. When I arrived at said gun store I asked to see an 870. They asked me what I was going to use it for, hunting or home defense. I told them “I have an old Smith and Wesson 20ga. for bird hunting, so show me the meanest looking tactical shotgun you have. You know, before I can’t buy one anymore.” The guy behind the counter handed me a 870 desert recon, with guess what, a ‘breach barrel’. I have no problem with the barrel besides the fact that it scratches everything it touches. However, when I took it to try it out and shoot clay pidgins when I went to Utah, it would freeze after I discharged a round. I would get one, maybe two rounds off before the slide wouldn’t come back. It took me grabbing the slide in both hands and slamming the butt on the ground just to eject the spent shell. I cycled it without rounds, no problems. I cycled it with rounds without shooting it, no problems. Went back to the line and shot at some pidgins, bang, and frozen. I took it apart and lubricated the action, still sticks after discharge. The breach release in front of the trigger wouldn’t depress unless with some force, but even with it depressed, wouldn’t cycle. Now my friends joke saying that if I know how to shoot it, I should only need one shot, but anyone can see that this is a problem. Any help with this would be appreciated. Oh, and I haven’t tried to use any other kind of ammunition with it beside the bird shot we used at the shoot. I don’t know if that is a variable of not.


Sgt. V

SGT V,

I've never heard of an 870 "freezing".

Sounds like some thing is stuck in the action or breech etc. Have some one that knows 870's take it apart and take a look.

Do not shoot it again until you do so.

Team Sergeant

[BryanK]

I have had similar issues with my 870. She does not like a low based steel hull. From my understanding, the steel hulled rounds expand and excessively "stick" in the chamber unlike their softer brass counterparts. The 870 extractors are not known for their reliability either. Try a turkey load if you can. Probably safer to heed TS's advice though.

[DbeforeD]

Yes Sir! Should I send it back to the factory?

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

The Factory should know about this for sure.
I'm not knowledgeable on breaching barrels but why should that stop me.... I believe the barrel is designed to "stand off" the target and allow much of the gasses to be blown out the sides of the barrel at target surface. I think that is to decrease the amount of blow back gotten from placing a normal barrel against a target or shooting from close in. So it is possible that there isn't enough backed up gas to loosen the expanded/brass or steel. SCRATCH THAT!
Or just the opposite... having the barrel close the the open end of the bore may keep too much pressure on the hull causing it to expand as does an overcharged round will expand and lock down a bolt. (don't ask me how I know...lol). Blitzzz

[jlcoad]

However, when I took it to try it out and shoot clay pidgins when I went to Utah, it would freeze after I discharged a round. I would get one, maybe two rounds off before the slide wouldn’t come back. It took me grabbing the slide in both hands and slamming the butt on the ground just to eject the spent shell.

Sgt. V

I found an article about the 870 that might help you.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/rem870.htm

"The 870 also utilizes twin shell stops to prevent shells from slipping from the magazine tube. It is possible that a shell can slip from the magazine and wedge between the shell carrier (the part that lifts the shell from the magazine) and the slide assembly (the part that moves the bolt itself). In the new models of the 870 this problem has been cured by the installation of the "flexitab kit". It is very easy matter to clear this type of jam. Clearing is accomplished by slamming the weapon against a hard surface while racking the action. "


I called a friend with an 870 and he said he had the same problem awhile back. He told me he found the answer for his problem on www.thefireingline.com. Might not solve your problem but it solved his. It was all about polishing the chamber with steel wool.

To be safe though, do what TS said and have someone who knows look at it for you. Or polish the chamber and have someone else test fire it.:-)

[Sten]

Did you try various shell manufactures? My 870 with an aftermarket (Remington) slug barrel hated Winchester white box "dove" loads until I deburred and lightly polished the chamber. It runs fine now.

Not all hiccups are the harbinger of the fall of civilized society and the death of quality.

[dadof18x'er]

I've been stocking up on home defense ammo for my 870. So far I get #4's,(thats what I use on turkeys so I thought it would be ok for wingless turkeys) but was considering some 00 buck, what do you guys recommend for home defense?

[JJ_BPK]

I've been stocking up on home defense ammo for my 870. So far I get #4's,(thats what I use on turkeys so I thought it would be ok for wingless turkeys) but was considering some 00 buck, what do you guys recommend for home defense?

I would ask what do you think OO wil do the #4 can't??

An indoor encounter with either will result in massive penetration of what ever it hits.

In a room where the shot is approx 20 ft max. Both loads will fit in a 3-4 inch circle.

Now if your chasing the perp down the street while he/she tries to get away in their 73 ford pinto,, THEN you need slugs. They will penetrate the length of the vehicle,, plus the perp..

Better yet,, If you shoot 2 boxes a month,, buy what you shoot,, rotate monthly..

Forget about that once in a life time hero shot at 3:37 AM on a dark and moonless nite while waring your Fred Flintstone jammies. Aint gonna happen...

[dadof18x'er]

I would ask what do you think OO wil do the #4 can't??

An indoor encounter with either will result in massive penetration of what ever it hits.

In a room where the shot is approx 20 ft max. Both loads will fit in a 3-4 inch circle.

Now if your chasing the perp down the street while he/she tries to get away in their 73 ford pinto,, THEN you need slugs. They will penetrate the length of the vehicle,, plus the perp..

Better yet,, If you shoot 2 boxes a month,, buy what you shoot,, rotate monthly..

Forget about that once in a life time hero shot at 3:37 AM on a dark and moonless nite while waring your Fred Flintstone jammies. Aint gonna happen...

good answer, thanks....now I need to take the turkey barrel off and replace it with an 18 in.

[craigepo]

I've been stocking up on home defense ammo for my 870. So far I get #4's,(thats what I use on turkeys so I thought it would be ok for wingless turkeys) but was considering some 00 buck, what do you guys recommend for home defense?

I have heard that a great load for home defense is bird shot(7 1/2, 8, 9). The reason articulated is that, for the distances inside a house, the smaller shot is going to still have a lot of knockdown power. Additionally, the odds of the small bird-load sized shot passing through a layer or two of sheetrock and hitting a loved one are pretty small, and if it does happen damage should be minimal. This is under the presumption that you are considering firing the gun inside the house at an intruder. If you are considering sticking the barrel out the window and firing your final protective fire, I would shoot the biggest thing my gun would shoot (i.e slugs, buckshot).

[JJ_BPK]

I have heard that a great load for home defense is bird shot(7 1/2, 8, 9). The reason articulated is that, for the distances inside a house, the smaller shot is going to still have a lot of knockdown power. Additionally, the odds of the small bird-load sized shot passing through a layer or two of sheetrock and hitting a loved one are pretty small, and if it does happen damage should be minimal. This is under the presumption that you are considering firing the gun inside the house at an intruder. If you are considering sticking the barrel out the window and firing your final protective fire, I would shoot the biggest thing my gun would shoot (i.e slugs, buckshot).

Da Judge has a point,,

But be warned,, when the corner arrives,,
The perp better have left COOPIEST(sic) AMOUNTS OF BLOOD IN THE HOUSE,,,
and he is laying WITH A DANGEROUS WEAPON IN HIS HAND,,
AND you pulled the trigger BECAUSE YOU FEARED FOR YOUR LIFE,,
or the lives of associated loved ones,, standing behind you...

[Sierra Bravo]

I went with a Vang Custom Barrel and ghostring sights on my 870 ;)
no complaints here