View Full Version : I'm seriously thinking about just falling in
Roguish Lawyer
05-12-2008, 22:41
and supporting John McCain. You know, write a check, lawn sign with boobytraps, the whole nine yards. No, I don't like McCain, I just can't stand the thought of Obama being President. Plus my neighbors are asking where my sign is . . .
:munchin
Sir, I find myself in the same boat. John McCain appears to be the best available candidate.
. Plus my neighbors are asking where my sign is . . .
If you feel the need to join your neighbors in their yard clutter efforts..
Why not a Bob Barr poster??
It will certainly invite comment,, "Who in hell is Bob Barr"
You may be surprised to find a couple hidden Conservative Libertarians in your mist??
I still have my Pat Paulson sign,, it's getting a little tattered,, but get's the point across.. Pat may not be a conservative,, but he's funny and there is little likelihood he would do any damage to the ecomimy..
http://www.paulsen.com/pat/
http://www.paulsen.com/book.jpeg
A vote for Barr or any other 3rd party person is worth two votes for BHO.
You could put up a "Well, I guess If I have to, Mac in 08" sign.
Make your fight in the primary. Then in the general election vote for the best person that has a chance of getting in the White House.
Remington Raidr
05-13-2008, 07:50
I still have my Pat Paulson sign,, it's getting a little tattered,, but get's the point across.. Pat may not be a conservative,, but he's funny and there is little likelihood he would do any damage to the ecomimy..
You are dating yourself, Mr. OLD SCHOOL.;)
rubberneck
05-13-2008, 10:19
I can't let perfect be the enemy of good. There is a whole lot I dislike about McCain but I dislike Obama even more. I cannot allow myself the luxury of sitting out this election season even though it won't matter in my home state. Yet another election where I'll have to hold my nose and vote. I can't stand it any longer. I just missed being able to vote for the Gipper. Since then we have had nothing but "lite" Republicans. I'd give my right arm for a chance to vote for a true small government conservative. Sadly they are as common place as hens teeth.
and supporting John McCain. You know, write a check, lawn sign with boobytraps, the whole nine yards. No, I don't like McCain, I just can't stand the thought of Obama being President. Plus my neighbors are asking where my sign is . . .
:munchin
I think I'm going to need to get a sign just because the number of Obama signs and bumper stickers going up in the neighborhood is frightening. (Ok, there's one sign and one bumper sticker, but in this very military and conservative neighborhood that's not good.) Interestingly no one else has a sign or a bumper sticker up in my neighborhood - and I'm thinking it's because they all have the same dilemma. I know my next door neighbor and I have already been discussing it as we've sat and stared at the Obama sign a few doors down. :rolleyes:
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-13-2008, 11:29
The deer, bear, moose, fox, bobcat and lesser critters cannot read and the only "signs" on my turf are left by forest critters. For the most part, any critter leavings can easily be removed by wading through the brook. Unfortunately I am convinced that the mess created by any of the other three will by stuck underfoot for four or more years and I am afraid that there is not enough oil of wintergreen to dump in that halved 55 gallon barrel to disquise the impending stench.:D
CDRODA396
05-13-2008, 12:36
This is definately an election where there is no clear pic, and every vote is going to count...
This is definately an election where there is no clear pic, and every vote is going to count...
And Bob Barr's running isn't going to help McCain out at all..... as someone else stated, every vote for him will have a 2 vote turnaround for Obama. Kinda like a turnover in basketball.
I wish he woulda stayed out of it.
Ret10Echo
05-13-2008, 13:23
The deer, bear, moose, fox, bobcat and lesser critters cannot read and the only "signs" on my turf are left by forest critters. For the most part, any critter leavings can easily be removed by wading through the brook. Unfortunately I am convinced that the mess created by any of the other three will by stuck underfoot for four or more years and I am afraid that there is not enough oil of wintergreen to dump in that halved 55 gallon barrel to disquise the impending stench.:D
As long as you can find a stick to scrape the "politico" out of the lugs on your boot sole I'm sure the smell will diminish during an overland movement......:rolleyes:
GreenSalsa
05-13-2008, 13:39
I will be holding my nose here come November too...
ZonieDiver
05-13-2008, 13:44
And Bob Barr's running isn't going to help McCain out at all..... as someone else stated, every vote for him will have a 2 vote turnaround for Obama. Kinda like a turnover in basketball.
I wish he woulda stayed out of it.
Then pray that Nader is able to get on the ballot in most states to even the playing field a bit. "We" owe him one for helping keep Gore out of the White House in 2000 - even though that guy would have been President if he had just carried his home state - where his family name used to be "golden".
As an Arizonan, I have to hope McCain wins - otherwise it'll be a century or more before some Arizona kid ever has a chance of being allowed to run for President again. Besides, I am dating a woman named McCain, and maybe it'll get us better tables in restaurants here in Phoenix.
Roguish Lawyer
05-13-2008, 15:23
As an Arizonan, I have to hope McCain wins - otherwise it'll be a century or more before some Arizona kid ever has a chance of being allowed to run for President again.
Ever hear of a guy named Barry Goldwater?
ZonieDiver
05-13-2008, 15:49
Ever hear of a guy named Barry Goldwater?
Au H20 in '64! Yes, I have! But if McCain loses, this small state will be 0-2 in the Presidential Elections and it will in all likelihood be a long time before some other person gets a chance. Arizona will be the state where moms DON'T tell their kids that they can grow up to be president!
Matta mile
05-13-2008, 18:58
As rediculous as it may sound, I am unable to come to grips with a personal voting philosiphy.
Do I vote to keep someone out, or perhaps my conscience to send a message of sorts or what?
I have been lazy on this topic howvever don't want to waste my vote.
Any thoughts?
MM
ZonieDiver
05-13-2008, 19:50
As rediculous as it may sound, I am unable to come to grips with a personal voting philosiphy.
Do I vote to keep someone out, or perhaps my conscience to send a message of sorts or what?
I have been lazy on this topic howvever don't want to waste my vote.
Any thoughts?
MM
I frequently vote for the "loser"! I've tried voting to send a message quite often, but don't think the message ever really gets through. Maybe there is not a "qualified operator" on the other end.
Unfortunately, I find myself voting for someone as the "lesser of two evils" more often than not. What happened in Florida in 2000 keeps me going to the polls, however.
Warrior-Mentor
05-13-2008, 19:58
What happened in Florida in 2000 keeps me going to the polls, however.
There is wisdom in your words...
There are so many votes in most contests - even those in a single city counsel district - that I am not at all sure my vote can send a detectable message. I think that one would need to organize some sort of group that represented a voting block, and probably raise a considerable amount of money.
It could be done, I suppose; but it would require a great deal of time and effort. In the end, one might succeed only in changing oneself into a lobbyist.
don't want to waste my vote.
Any thoughts?
MM
That is the key, if you ask me. This upcoming election is definitely not the one to waste a vote...the stakes are way too high.
Ret10Echo
05-13-2008, 20:20
There are so many votes in most contests - even those in a single city counsel district - that I am not at all sure my vote can send a detectable message. I think that one would need to organize some sort of group that represented a voting block, and probably raise a considerable amount of money.
It could be done, I suppose; but it would require a great deal of time and effort. In the end, one might succeed only in changing oneself into a lobbyist.
Being involved at the local level is where it all starts. I understand about the importance of the higher level (national) government positions, but there are some positions that can have a greater impact on me than others. Getting the lower level politicos to work as your pit-bull in getting after the next layer up seems to be an affective way to get changes made. Our county commissioners absolutely annoy the tar out of the guys at the State-level and so on...
Unfortunately the mention of "raise a considerable amount of money" is all too true. In my opinion most of those beyond the State government level see nothing but dollar signs.
The intent is to make it seem as if your vote doesn't count...because if enough people think that way, then things run that much smoother for the politicians.
Be a thorn in their side.
Squeeky Wheel:D
The intent is to make it seem as if your vote doesn't count...because if enough people think that way, then things run that much smoother for the politicians.
Be a thorn in their side.
Sir, you make an excellent point. I could enjoy generating some annoyance for politicians. :)
ZonieDiver
05-13-2008, 20:40
Being involved at the local level is where it all starts. I understand about the importance of the higher level (national) government positions, but there are some positions that can have a greater impact on me than others. Getting the lower level politicos to work as your pit-bull in getting after the next layer up seems to be an affective way to get changes made. Our county commissioners absolutely annoy the tar out of the guys at the State-level and so on...
Unfortunately the mention of "raise a considerable amount of money" is all too true. In my opinion most of those beyond the State government level see nothing but dollar signs.
The intent is to make it seem as if your vote doesn't count...because if enough people think that way, then things run that much smoother for the politicians.
Be a thorn in their side.
Squeeky Wheel:D
I bit the bullet and ran for the local elementary district school board in 2006. Once the "early ballots" that were turned in at the wrong polling place were finally counted, I lost by 13 votes! If I had knocked on a few more doors...
I really cannot see BHO winning. In a three way popularity contest, the grey man wins.
Most of the riff raff that rallies behind BHO doesnt vote. I think this is no contest unless Hillary wins the nomination.
I really cannot see BHO winning. In a three way popularity contest, the grey man wins.
Most of the riff raff that rallies behind BHO doesnt vote. I think this is no contest unless Hillary wins the nomination.
Thats my hopeful opinion also. What has me worried is the word "change" People voting for a Dem just to have something different. If McCain loses it will probably be the fact that he will be linked to GW (Republican) and the falling economy. I find it strange none of the candidates have a plan to lower Gas prices. Temporarily eliminating the Gas tax isn't going to cut it.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-14-2008, 05:34
Be a thorn in their side.
You are a kinder, more politically astute person than am I. I have lost patience with most politicos and have shifted from the tactic of constant annoyance to a boot up their fourth point of contact. I tried to be a gentle soul dealing with the locals, but when my requests for road repair were politely shelved I invited the town manager for coffee and cake at my home and told her I would pick her up and bring her back to her office. We met as arranged, I hit every friggin' pot hole I could to make my point and had her on the edge of tossing her cookies. My road was fixed the next week. I guess my point is that politicos do not deal well with individuals, unless they are representing a group from which they can gain support or power in building consensus for their agendas competing for resources with other politicos who also have agendas. Consensus building takes time and skill but is often frustrating because you rarely achieve your complete goal because there is often a trade off with someone else to allow them to met their goal. That runs against most of our military culture for immediate resolution of serious problems because we are used to having someone in charge, equipped to make the damn decision, unafraid to act, and fully willing to accept the results of the outcome. It is akin to laying out a campaign plan and only ever reaching your intermediate objective. Consensus building is a tool of the trade for UW, but not one for a full blown assault on someone about to clean your clock. In that case you need to stick that thorn in someone's eye and not his/her side.:D
Thats my hopeful opinion also. What has me worried is the word "change" People voting for a Dem just to have something different. If McCain loses it will probably be the fact that he will be linked to GW (Republican) and the falling economy. I find it strange none of the candidates have a plan to lower Gas prices. Temporarily eliminating the Gas tax isn't going to cut it.
Sir, I find the apparent public desire for change to be amusing - but with some tragic overtones. I feel highly confident the next four years will be filled with changes. Unfortunately, most of us won't regard them as positive.
I believe the reason they haven't spoken of lower gas prices is that there is no way to accomplish that end. The combination of increased use by China and India, along with the geologic issues of peak oil represent a major challenge - and they know it. For example, here's a quote from Bill Clinton from July, 2006:
To the best of my knowledge I never had a security briefing which said what some of these very serious but conservative petroleum geologists say, which is they think that either now or before the decade is out that we'll reach peak oil production globally and with the rise of China and India and others coming along unless we can dramatically reduce our oil usage we will run out of recoverable oil within 35 to 50 years.
LINK (http://www.energybulletin.net/18138.html)
My working theory is that we will see $6 gasoline next year. When we combine the wealth transfer from the U.S. to the oil producing countries with the economic consequences of expensive fuel, the outcome for many will be unpleasant. Whatever the possibilities of technological innovation might be, discovery will take time, implementation more time, and scalability yet more. We are unlikely to enjoy the benefits of such discoveries during the next 4 years - or for that matter, during the next 8.
Therein lies the problem of this election. Whoever gets elected is likely to face an unhappy, and quite possibly angry and frightened electorate. Navigating that path will require a leader (a leader in the best sense, not just an office holder) willing to seek immediate resolution of serious problems, to be in charge, to make hard decisions. Someone unafraid to act, and fully willing to accept the results of the outcome. (Shamelessly lifted from Colonel Moroney's post, who said it better than I could)
I think we need a truly great president. I am not sure that is an available option. The outcome of choosing an ineffectual (or worse) president may be dire.
Ret10Echo
05-14-2008, 07:24
You are a kinder, more politically astute person than am I. I have lost patience with most politicos and have shifted from the tactic of constant annoyance to a boot up their fourth point of contact. I tried to be a gentle soul dealing with the locals, but when my requests for road repair were politely shelved I invited the town manager for coffee and cake at my home and told her I would pick her up and bring her back to her office. We met as arranged, I hit every friggin' pot hole I could to make my point and had her on the edge of tossing her cookies. My road was fixed the next week. I guess my point is that politicos do not deal well with individuals, unless they are representing a group from which they can gain support or power in building consensus for their agendas competing for resources with other politicos who also have agendas. Consensus building takes time and skill but is often frustrating because you rarely achieve your complete goal because there is often a trade off with someone else to allow them to met their goal. That runs against most of our military culture for immediate resolution of serious problems because we are used to having someone in charge, equipped to make the damn decision, unafraid to act, and fully willing to accept the results of the outcome. It is akin to laying out a campaign plan and only ever reaching your intermediate objective. Consensus building is a tool of the trade for UW, but not one for a full blown assault on someone about to clean your clock. In that case you need to stick that thorn in someone's eye and not his/her side.:D
I fully intend to reach the point of using the thorn in the eye technique, but not being quite as long in the tooth as you sir, I still prefer persistant annoyance at this stage :D
I have the pleasure of being labeled as a "sabre rattler" and "alarmist" by the Maryland State Transportation Commuter office. But the end result was that the changes were made due to political pressure provided through local representatives and some backchannel discussions with the local newspaper reporters....
The end state was indeed a collaborative effort with compromises, but the "Intent" was met.
Paste Eater
05-14-2008, 20:49
I really cannot see BHO winning. In a three way popularity contest, the grey man wins.
Most of the riff raff that rallies behind BHO doesnt vote. I think this is no contest unless Hillary wins the nomination.
On the same note.
It drives me absolutely crazy when I hear the "change" bandwagon clang up the road. I'm a fairly young guy, but even at a younger age I understood the saying, "You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, but see which one fills faster."
Sure who wouldn't love world peace (save it), to see human rights increase and genocide vanish?
There's how it should be and how it is. I prefer to vote for the guy who doesn't make promises, and rolls with the punches thrown his way, regardless of how he handles it.
Remington Raidr
05-14-2008, 20:57
Round these parts they don't know who I voted for, but they can find out easily that I have voted in EVERY election. I believe that counts for something when I call my local public servants.