View Full Version : Detroit Lions Seventh Round Pick - C. Campbell, Army
The Detroit Lions became the story of the NFL draft's second day for their last pick. In the seventh round, at 218 overall, they took Army safety Caleb Campbell.
But the biggest applause was for Campbell. ESPN reported all day on Campbell because the 6-foot-2, 230 pounder would be spared having to serve in Iraq if he made a NFL roster. Halfway through the final round, he got the call from the Lions.
What Army has done is offer its top athletes a side door to professional sports. West Point has implemented an alternative service option program that allows cadets to turn pro -- and play -- right away. Cadets accepted into the program "will owe two years of active service in the Army, during which time they will be allowed to play their sport in the player-development systems of their respective organizations and be assigned to recruiting stations. If they remain in professional sports following those two years, they will be provided the option of buying out the remaining three years of their active-duty commitment in exchange for six years of reserve time."
Will this new policy pay dividends for the Army, specially with respect to the morale of the soldiers in the sand box?
Red Flag 1
04-28-2008, 19:57
Not sure about the sandbox issue, but it should help USMA recruit into their football program.
RF 1
I understand the "PR" benefits some argue former cadets generate by entering pro sports right away. Personally, I think the whole thing is a crock. They entered an academy fully understanding the post-graduation obligation THE REST OF THEIR CLASSMATES are expected to fulfill, they receive extra assistance in their academic studies, they get a pass on several of the duties and responsibilities THE REST OF THEIR CLASSMATES are expected to shoulder. If they wanted to go pro, there are plenty of civilian schools they could have chosen to attend. Even the Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright, etc. scholarship winners are not released from their 5 year active duty/3 year reserve obligation following graduation.
I would much rather see Army football (or any other sport) continue to lose game after game (i.e., business as usual) than improve their win record through improved recruiting by letting a new LT out of his or her sworn duty because they're good at playing games.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
04-29-2008, 05:19
but it should help USMA recruit into their football program.RF 1
Oh yeah, and that is really important! :rolleyes: Let some one else pick up the DUTY, Let some one else HONOR their contract, Let some one else serve the COUNTRY for them. Just what we need in the service, another dis-ingenuous officer who would put his goals and desires ahead of those for whom he would have been charged to lead. I don't know if the Infantry Center and School's shoulder patch still has "Follow Me" emblazoned on it above a bayonet but if it does I think those that opt out of their commitment for pro sports ought to be issued one in pink with the words "Quit Pushing" emblazoned above a jock strap to wear proudly as a fine example for those young recruits that enter his recruiting station and who are willing be surrounded with the aroma of death and gunpowder and not methyl salicylate and mildewed towels.
I have no military experience; all I have is respect and admiration for those who serve. But I had a feeling that the selection of C. Campbell could become a issue, specially for those young officers/cadets that are deployed or are going to deployed to the sandbox or any other hot theater for that matter, that see this cadet receive special treatment or privileges, just because of this athletic abilities. The last place I thought that could happen was in the Army.
But besides that, I really think this goes more to the individual. Take for instance Pat Tillman. He was a pro football player that decided to leave that lifestyle to serve his country. If I am in combat, I want that guy covering my back. C Campbell had a change of heart after deciding he wanted to serve his country. My guess is that his heart wasn’t really in it, because as P. Tillman demonstrated with his actions, if you really feel the calling to serve your country no amount of money or fame, or any other thing will deter you from the sense of DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY. I would think the Army is better off having C. Campbell with the Lions instead of leading young men into combat.
Just my humble 02.
I understand the "PR" benefits some argue former cadets generate by entering pro sports right away. Personally, I think the whole thing is a crock. I tend to agree...IIRC, it started with Napoleon McCallum and David Robinson from USNA...the hell with the competitiveness of the athletic programs, the point in these academies is providing "players" for a more serious field of competitive endeavor...
This is sickening. Cadet Campbell should be ashamed of himself. I guess, despite four years of education to the contrary, it is still "all about him"...:mad:
Oh yeah, and that is really important! :rolleyes: Let some one else pick up the DUTY, Let some one else HONOR their contract, Let some one else serve the COUNTRY for them. Just what we need in the service, another dis-ingenuous officer who would put his goals and desires ahead of those for whom he would have been charged to lead. I don't know if the Infantry Center and School's shoulder patch still has "Follow Me" emblazoned on it above a bayonet but if it does I think those that opt out of their commitment for pro sports ought to be issued one in pink with the words "Quit Pushing" emblazoned above a jock strap to wear proudly as a fine example for those young recruits that enter his recruiting station and who are willing be surrounded with the aroma of death and gunpowder and not methyl salicylate and mildewed towels.
Agreed.
No one told you sir, that "CONVENIENCE" is now an Army Value? :(:(:(
Has the cadet been quoted anywhere as to his thoughts on this? I didn't see draft day.
Has the cadet been quoted anywhere as to his thoughts on this? I didn't see draft day.
Who cares what he has to say? Actions speak louder than words.
Has the cadet been quoted anywhere as to his thoughts on this? I didn't see draft day.
He was interviewed by ESPN before being selected by the Lions. When ask what he thought his selection would do to the morale of the troops he basically said that he had received numerous emails stating how the possibility of him being drafted and playing on Sundays was lifting the morale of the troops. That was the comment that made me think about all of this.
Also, as quoted by ESPN:
"I asked Campbell whether he'd received any backlash from former cadets regarding his unique situation.
"I've heard some of that," said Campbell, who was recently featured on ESPN's "E:60." "It's tough for me because as an officer, I trained to take a platoon into battle. It was initially sort of a tough thing, but who's to say I can't still have a career as an officer?"
Campbell said he hopes to "show a lot of people who are skeptical about the academy's policy that this can really be good."
There is something in his first comment that doesn’t sit well with me. I would think that is not the “training” that makes you want to lead men into battle, rather, is knowing that you are the best platoon leader out there and that your decisions will save the lives of those men. I would think that you would want to be there for them, because you know you can make a difference and you know you can help bring back every one of them alive, not because of your training.
But I am not in the Army, much less an Officer. So what do career Officers have to say about this, and more importantly what do career NCOs think about all of this?
But I am not in the Army, much less an Officer. So what do carrier Officers have to say about this, and more importantly what do carrier NCOs think about all of this?
Not sure what "carrier" Officers think about anything, go ask the Navy :D
As for Career Officers, sounds to me as though being a PL was his back-up plan with the main focus being the NFL. Fine by me. Use that signing bonus to pay the US Govt back for the world-class education and training he just received... Then give him a general discharge.
I don't want PLs that are here b/c their primary goals fell through. I want the PLs who want to be PLs...:lifter
x-factor
04-29-2008, 15:44
If letting Campbell "serve" as a recruiter while in the NFL gets more soldiers in boots, then its of greater benefit to the army and the mission than having one more second lieutenant.
Thats the counter-argument anyway and its logical enough if you look at the problem from an accountant's perspective. For myself, I tend to agree with Col JM though. In my family, being an officer was one in the highest tier of possible careers, on par with being a doctor or a minister. I love football, but this feels cheap to me.
If I'm not mistaken, David Robinson (who it should be noted was not serving during wartime) delayed his basketball career by two years to honor his commitment and was a positive voice for the Navy after transitioning to pro sports. So, with a little luck and good soldiering, there's no reason Campbell can't have his cake and eat it too.
(Plus, lets be honest, he's at best a special teamer who's going to get cut after bouncing around the league for two or three years. Its not like he's Roger Staubach who gave some of the best years of his career to the Navy.)
Here's the root of the problem though...
Army is trying to have a competitive DI program and thats just ridiculous. They're never going to be able to recruit the team for it. They could put together a perfectly good schedule playing Air Force, Navy, and similar-minded schools like the Ivys, the Citadel, etc. Schools where the athletics is for the benefit of the student-athletes, not the school's budget and the boosters' egos.
Not sure what "carrier" Officers think about anything, go ask the Navy :D
What the ... I am also not sure what a "carrier" Officer is. :eek:
Thanks for pointing that out. :D
I'm in agreement with most here.
If Campbell wanted to play Pro Football, he should have gone to a 4 year school other than a Military Academy. Bottom line.
He signed to attend a Military Academy. To which, he has a commitment to fulfill after graduation.
In a way, Mr. Campbell is an "Anti-Tillman". Here Mr. Campbell goes to a Military Academy, in the prospects of serving his country, but is instead, going to to a lucrative contract with a Professional Football organization, in order to play ball, whereas Pat Tillman GAVE UP that million dollar contract, and went and served his country to the best of his ability, and paid the ultimate sacrifice.
My 0.02
Peregrino
04-29-2008, 18:49
Here's the root of the problem though...
Army is trying to have a competitive DI program and thats just ridiculous. They're never going to be able to recruit the team for it. They could put together a perfectly good schedule playing Air Force, Navy, and similar-minded schools like the Ivys, the Citadel, etc. Schools where the athletics is for the benefit of the student-athletes, not the school's budget and the boosters' egos.
+1. COL M said it best. Mr. Campbell has a duty and it's not in the NFL. If he was recruited into West Point on the basis of his athletics vs. "the whole man" concept and his potential as an Army officer then heads should roll. Sports programs are (should be) about mentorship and teaching leadership, discipline, teamwork, and sacrifice - and maybe how to give and take a few lumps along the way - not as a breeding ground for gladiators. As far as I'm concerned, college is about academics, not bread and circus for big bucks. Yes - I am aware of the money. I also think it's BS. Maybe it's time Pro sports teams got their draft picks from the minor leagues instead of perverting the intent of inter-colegiate sports.
(Plus, lets be honest, he's at best a special teamer who's going to get cut after bouncing around the league for two or three years. Its not like he's Roger Staubach who gave some of the best years of his career to the Navy.)
True. But that is not the issue here.
Army is trying to have a competitive DI program and thats just ridiculous. They're never going to be able to recruit the team for it. They could put together a perfectly good schedule playing Air Force, Navy, and similar-minded schools like the Ivys, the Citadel, etc. Schools where the athletics is for the benefit of the student-athletes, not the school's budget and the boosters' egos.
I don’t think that the problem lies with West Point having competitive Div. I program. Look at the Air Force and Naval academies. Why can they have a real competitive program and WP cant? The football program is not competitive in my view because their offensive philosophy is still in the 1970s. But that is the subject of another thread.
The fault here lies with this new policy of WP. It is wrong because it is sending the wrong message.
Red Flag 1
04-30-2008, 15:47
Gents
I am trying to recall the name and year an Army QB ( Carpenter???) early 1960s graduated from USMA, comissioned as 2Lt...went to Nam...died serving his country. As I recall he could easily been NFL.
Pete Dawkins, USMA, won the Heisman in 1958. Went on to win the Medal of Honor. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he made General by the age of 40 and was considered a sure bet for Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he surprised a lot of people and retired. I was once told by an acquaintance of his that he was a reluctant hero and a really good man
Red Flag 1
05-16-2008, 09:20
The 19 MAY issue of Air Force Times is reporting at length on this topic. In the report by Michael Hoffman, service academy graduation brings a five year commitment with two year active duty service minimum. This applies to USMA, USNA, and Air Force Academy. In the report, USMA decided three years ago to approve an "alternative service option" under which an active-duty officer can break his service commitment and switch to the Army Reserve if his special talents could help recruit more soldiers. Navy and Air Force have not followed suit.
US Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb said she couldn't explain why the Army interprets the Defense Departments policy differently than the Air Force or the Navy. Edgecomb went on to say that Army officals are reviewing this policy with a ruling due the end of May.
RF 1
The Reaper
05-16-2008, 10:27
Pete Dawkins, USMA, won the Heisman in 1958. Went on to win the Medal of Honor. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he made General by the age of 40 and was considered a sure bet for Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he surprised a lot of people and retired. I was once told by an acquaintance of his that he was a reluctant hero and a really good man
Dawkins has two Bronze Stars, but no MoH.
He retired as a BG after just 24 years of service.
TR
Go For Broke
05-16-2008, 12:41
Wonder what happens if he does the sell-out option and his Reserve unit is activated :munchin
Oops, meant buy out option
V/R,
Looks as if Campbell WON'T be playing for the Lions afterall. At least not yet.
Army orders Lions draft pick Campbell to withdraw
ALLEN PARK, Mich. (AP)—Caleb Campbell was a day away from practicing with the Detroit Lions and taking a step toward his dream of playing in the NFL.
“He was issued a helmet, ready to go,” coach Rod Marinelli said Wednesday.
Now, Campbell is closer to joining his fellow West Point graduates in Iraq or Afghanistan.
The U.S. Army revised its interpretation of U.S. Department of Defense policy two weeks ago regarding soldiers playing professional sports, requiring cadets to complete two years of active duty before applying for a release. Campbell and the Lions didn’t officially receive notice of the change until the eve of training camp.
“It’s unfortunate, but it doesn’t mean Caleb Campbell’s dream is dead. It just means it will be delayed,” Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb told The Associated Press. “We want to take care of soldiers and dashing their hopes is not what we intend. But it is what it is.”
Edgecomb said minor league baseball players Nick Hill and Milan Dinga, former West Point standouts, will be allowed to finish their seasons before eventually joining their units.
“We did an internal review of our policy and found that based on the DOD policy, we needed to adjust our policy,” Edgecomb said Wednesday.
Campbell agreed to contract terms, but the seventh-round pick did not sign the deal. The Lions will retain his rights until the 2009 draft, but he will not be eligible to play until 2010.
“Obviously, he’s disappointed,” said Marinelli, a Vietnam veteran. “But I obviously know what he’s about. He got his orders and he’s ready to report.”
When Detroit drafted Campbell in April, it created a lot of publicity and led to some debate whether it was fair for a cadet to play pro sports while classmates were at war.
“There were a lot of questions. Why is this kid going to be able to pursue this opportunity?” Campbell recalled in April. “I had a lot of guys come up to me. I think initially they were confused. They didn’t understand the aspect of this whole situation. But it was never anything vulgar, just a lot of questions, a lot of curiosity from my fellow cadets.
“Now that they understand the policy, they understand how this is going to benefit the Army. Whenever I’m settled in, I will report to the local recruiting station in the area and I will take it very seriously. It’s my job in the United States Army. This is how I’m serving my country.”
The buzz might have also made the Navy and Air Force bitter because their graduates were playing under different rules under the same Department of Defense directive, which was implemented in 1994, reiterated in 2007 and again just a few days after the NFL draft.
“The policy has not changed,” Department of Defense spokeswoman Eileen Lainez said.
Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter ruled last month that Mitch Harris must serve a five-year active duty commitment. Harris, a 22-year-old pitcher with a 95-mph fastball, was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the 13th round in this year’s draft.
Harris acknowledged being surprised by the ruling because Campbell was being allowed to pursue football while completing his military service as a recruiter and in the reserves.
“Army has redefined the Alternative Service Option to include playing professional sports,” Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has said. “Our coaches are now operating under a significant handicap when recruiting head-to-head with Army. It may not be reflected on the playing field today, but I can guarantee you that it will result in a competitive disadvantage down the road.”
The Air Force agreed, saying the academies recruit cadets from the same pool of candidates.
Last month, the Army embraced the advantage.
“The real advantage for the Army is just the amount of publicity we get,” Edgecomb said in an AP story published on June 13. “When you think about it, who’s the best recruiter for the Navy you can think of? David Robinson. He’s called the Admiral, for goodness sake. The attention that we get in our primary demographic to have someone playing sports who’s in the Army, that’s where (we) in the Army see the advantage in this program.”
Before he became a superstar center with the San Antonio Spurs, Robinson served two years of active duty for the Navy after graduating from the academy in the 1980s. He benefited from a policy that allowed him to apply for an early release to pursue “an activity with potential recruiting or public affairs benefit to the Navy and Marine Corps.”
In 1986, Navy running back Napoleon McCallum played his rookie year with the Los Angeles Raiders while stationed at the Long Beach, Calif., naval base.
The Army changed its policy on July 8, but it wasn’t until July 23 that the Lions received a letter from U.S. Army Lt. Col. Jonathan P. Liba, informing them in writing that Campbell had to cease playing football in order to perform “full time traditional military duties,” until at least 2010.
“It’s unfortunate that the timing of the new policy is happening at the same time that he was about to begin trying out, but that’s not something we planned,” Edgecomb said. “But he’s been at West Point for four years and he went there to be an officer. What he’s accomplished on a football field has been outstanding, but what he’ll accomplish as a soldier will be even greater.”
“Army has redefined the Alternative Service Option to include playing professional sports,” Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has said. “Our coaches are now operating under a significant handicap when recruiting head-to-head with Army. It may not be reflected on the playing field today, but I can guarantee you that it will result in a competitive disadvantage down the road.”
It seems to me these coaches may have lost site of the goal...
OK, Coach Gladchuck - So are we worried about the bloody game or the bigger picture? I'll take a shitty service school football team with a competitive disadvantage over a school like Florida or LSU instead of a fighting force with a competitive disadvantage over everyone else.