View Full Version : MBITR Antenna
sweetage528
03-04-2008, 11:44
Does anybody know the name or NSN for the MBITR antenna that you can weave in and out of your plate carrier. It is not made by Thales. If anybody has any information about it please post.
The Reaper
03-04-2008, 11:52
The Search button is your friend.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13497
TR
chance-alot
03-05-2008, 22:48
If the home-brew version isn't doing it for you or you just want a source TSE Recon can square you away...
http://www.tserecon.com/PDF/Comms_Amplifiers_Accessories/Handheld%20Radio%20Accessories_12-07.pdf
Does anybody know the name or NSN for the MBITR antenna that you can weave in and out of your plate carrier. It is not made by Thales. If anybody has any information about it please post.
This is a home made antenna made out of RG-58 cable. It's 40 inches total length. Put a TNC crimp on connector on one end for the MBITR! Measure up 3 1/2 inches from the end of the connector and 9 1/2 inches down from the end of the RG-58 cable. Remove the 27" of black shielding and braided metal/copper covering. You should be looking at 27" of clear plastic shielding covering the copper inner core. At the tip of the antenna strip away approx. 1/2" and shunt / solder the center copper core of wire to the braided shielding. Seal with black tape, etc to prevent shorting or grounding. This antenna is being taught at the 18E committee, USAJFKSWCS and by the PH V commo instructors / cadre for Robin Sage.
Ret10Echo
03-10-2008, 08:14
This is a home made antenna made out of RG-58 cable. It's 40 inches total length. Put a TNC crimp on connector on one end for the MBITR! Measure up 3 1/2 inches from the end of the connector and 9 1/2 inches down from the end of the RG-58 cable. Remove the 27" of black shielding and braided metal/copper covering. You should be looking at 27" of clear plastic shielding covering the copper inner core. At the tip of the antenna strip away approx. 1/2" and shunt / solder the center copper core of wire to the braided shielding. Seal with black tape, etc to prevent shorting or grounding. This antenna is being taught at the 18E committee, USAJFKSWCS and by the PH V commo instructors / cadre for Robin Sage.
PSSST...Norm....Intro thread...
http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17368
:munchin
I have made this MBITR Antenna for just about every squadleader and above we have in my Infantry Bn and these have worked flawlessly! Thanks for the advice Norm C27!
25Series
06-22-2009, 11:04
This is a home made antenna made out of RG-58 cable. It's 40 inches total length. Put a TNC crimp on connector on one end for the MBITR! Measure up 3 1/2 inches from the end of the connector and 9 1/2 inches down from the end of the RG-58 cable. Remove the 27" of black shielding and braided metal/copper covering. You should be looking at 27" of clear plastic shielding covering the copper inner core. At the tip of the antenna strip away approx. 1/2" and shunt / solder the center copper core of wire to the braided shielding. Seal with black tape, etc to prevent shorting or grounding. This antenna is being taught at the 18E committee, USAJFKSWCS and by the PH V commo instructors / cadre for Robin Sage.
What is the advantage for leaving the last bit of shielding and soldering it to the copper core? I have had pretty good results from just a stripped RG-58, but if doing it your way is better I will start. Please Advise.
Also, for those of you without crimpers, the T connector from the top of a Harris 152 works if you just have the long (4' or 5') W-2 cables laying around, I just cut off an end, strip the cable and use the BNC connector already on the other end of the cable to connect to the top of the Radio, also allows you to fast disconnect and transition to a the 1m whip. Another advantage is in the event of needing to remove your chest rig or whatever else from your vest quickly, if you have the "Mantenna" woven into your vest and you have your radio in your rig, it takes a bit more time to unscrew a TNC vs half a turn of the BNC. Those few seconds could mean a lot when your crap is all hung up in the vehicle or doc is trying to get to a wound.
xerexb31u
06-25-2009, 03:20
The blade antenna's NSN that can be weaved through your plate carrier is 5985-01-487-1135. Please let me know if you need anything else.
The Reaper
06-25-2009, 06:34
The blade antenna's NSN that can be weaved through your plate carrier is 5985-01-487-1135. Please let me know if you need anything else.
Good info xerex.
Now how about following the instructions and making an introduction in the appropriate place?
TR
69harley
06-25-2009, 06:49
The blade antenna's NSN that can be weaved through your plate carrier is 5985-01-487-1135. Please let me know if you need anything else.
Nothing new here. This antenna is made by Thales and is the standard 1-meter blade antenna that is issued with the MBITR/JEM. Some users may weave this antenna through their plate carriers but it is nothing at all like the one being discussed in this thread. This antenna is one meter long and made out of rubber coated flat steel, compared to a six foot long piece of coax.
Here is a link to the Thales web page for this antenna:
https://secure.thalescomminc.com/cart2/catalog_details2.asp?ID=96
Electron
06-26-2009, 07:12
You can find a lot of NSNs for radio systems in this topic.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19986
White_Rogue
06-26-2009, 15:09
not trying to be the drunk guy at the party interupting people, but can somebody post pics of what this is supposed to look like at various stages? I've been looking for a setup like this for a while and I'm def not a commo guru but I have to make due because of sub par commo guys in house. thanks for any and all help.
Brody
I have to make a couple today, so ill take a couple pictures... good timing White_Rogue
Here are the pictures, sorry for the quality, my camera isn't the best. 1-5 is the working photos.
And here is the finished product cleaned, taped, and ready to hand out! Hope this helps.
-BB
commosgt
08-31-2009, 12:21
So Ive made a few of these for my company, and just playing around with different things. Ive noticed that when I wrap the bare antenna section with Electrical tape it tends to clear the little static that comes in over the radio. I'm fairly new to the commo world (besides basic SINCGARS operation) and Ive been learning all I can. I'm not sure why this works, my only thought is that the tape provides a little shielding from atmospheric white noise? Theirs a good chance I'm way off but if anybody has any input Id love to learn
69harley
08-31-2009, 14:08
And here is the finished product cleaned, taped, and ready to hand out! Hope this helps.
-BB
TSE Inc manufactures these. They even put them into an RF test chamber to tweak them. Here is a brochure, call Big Ed at TSE Inc. The guys at TSE Inc are very smart about RF.
http://www.tserecon.com/TSERECON/communications_Equipment_files/Handheld%20Radio%20Accessories_09-02-27.pdf
Irishsquid
08-31-2009, 14:15
So Ive made a few of these for my company, and just playing around with different things. Ive noticed that when I wrap the bare antenna section with Electrical tape it tends to clear the little static that comes in over the radio. I'm fairly new to the commo world (besides basic SINCGARS operation) and Ive been learning all I can. I'm not sure why this works, my only thought is that the tape provides a little shielding from atmospheric white noise? Theirs a good chance I'm way off but if anybody has any input Id love to learn
That actually sounds about right. I've done the same thing, as far as he electrical tape goes, and I've never had any issues out of the "mantenna."
So Ive made a few of these for my company, and just playing around with different things. Ive noticed that when I wrap the bare antenna section with Electrical tape it tends to clear the little static that comes in over the radio. I'm fairly new to the commo world (besides basic SINCGARS operation) and Ive been learning all I can. I'm not sure why this works, my only thought is that the tape provides a little shielding from atmospheric white noise? Theirs a good chance I'm way off but if anybody has any input Id love to learn
use heat shrink.........
steelcobra
10-13-2009, 20:53
Use this guy to figure out the best length for the freqs you use.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennaevcalc.html
Right-angle connectors work better than the straight ones too, since you can have the cable come at an angle where it won't catch.
And heat-shrink is something we use. Get the wide-bore stuff for the connector end, when it shrinks down it forms into a strain-relief boot.
steelcobra
01-31-2010, 17:15
Important information about coax cable antennas:
1: Always cut a little long because when worn in the kit, your body's electrical field WILL drop the antenna's sweet spot by about 2-4MHz.
2: A VSWR meter of some kind is NECESSARY when figuring out your antenna length, and it needs to be tuned (trimmed down) while woven into the kit and worn on the body.
SSponte175
11-03-2010, 08:06
I do not know antenna theory but I have made, based on one made for me by a guy who did, about 30 antennas. Only difference from BBcommo's is the length, 12 ft of RG58, and I stripped all the insulation, exterior and wire mesh, from 9 inches behind the TNC connector. It relies on the center wire to send and receive radio waves. I never had a problem, and it gave me better reception and transmission than my RTO with his 1523 and long whip.
Electron
11-19-2010, 20:19
Use whatever works. Also, here is a link to lots of useful NSNs
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19986&highlight=NSNs
Weps_Intel_35F
12-05-2010, 11:10
I recently used Norm's design during a field exercise and it worked flawlessly. It even worked better than my commo guy's setup of an ASIP with OE-254! It's nice being able to talk to the rear without having to haul all that gear. I'm passing this on to our EOD bubbas for their upcoming deployment.
Thanks again Norm!
69harley
11-21-2011, 08:44
No NSN yet the Company that makes them is RadioWavz. REF purchases them frequently. That is an avenue to look in to if you are having problems getting them through the normal channels.
Hope that helps. It is one assembly no sepate parts unless you want the BNC quick Disconnect. Or Coax extension.
I have on of these on my desk. It is a piece of shit and the VSWR on it is through the roof.
69harley
11-22-2011, 14:56
Four posts, one is the required intro and the other three relate to this antenna? Hmmm......Judging from your location and the location of the company, it would appear you are somehow related to the company.
Come here to hawk some gear did we?
Eagle5US
11-22-2011, 15:25
Thread closed until Buckaroo answers my PM-:rolleyes:
eta*
He answered; his answers were not satisfactory as they were in direct contradiction to what he said here.
He has been BANNED - thread is open for discussion.
bravo22b
03-31-2012, 11:05
Maybe a stupid question, but here goes anyway...
Is there any reason why buying a pre-made RG-58 cable with TNC or BNC connectors already factory installed, and then cutting it to size and performing the other steps illustrated wouldn't be a good idea?
I can't find RG58 easily available other than on a 1000" spool, and it is just as easy to buy and RG58 patch cord online as it is to buy cable by the foot.
My idea was to buy a 10' patch cable with straight TNC connectors on each end and cut it in half, which would obviously give me two "mantenna" size pieces. It seems to me that since the cost difference between bare cable and a patch cord is fairly insignificant, the advantage of having a factory installed connector and strain relief would be worthwhile.
I could also get them with BNC connectors for quicker disconnect (I already have the TNC to BNC adapters for my MBITR's). The only disadvantage I can think of to that is one more connection leaking RF energy.
Any thoughts?
Badger52
04-05-2012, 09:32
Maybe a stupid question, but here goes anyway...
Is there any reason why buying a pre-made RG-58 cable with TNC or BNC connectors already factory installed, and then cutting it to size and performing the other steps illustrated wouldn't be a good idea?
I can't find RG58 easily available other than on a 1000" spool, and it is just as easy to buy and RG58 patch cord online as it is to buy cable by the foot.
My idea was to buy a 10' patch cable with straight TNC connectors on each end and cut it in half, which would obviously give me two "mantenna" size pieces. It seems to me that since the cost difference between bare cable and a patch cord is fairly insignificant, the advantage of having a factory installed connector and strain relief would be worthwhile.
I could also get them with BNC connectors for quicker disconnect (I already have the TNC to BNC adapters for my MBITR's). The only disadvantage I can think of to that is one more connection leaking RF energy.
Any thoughts?You're only "leaking" RF with a poor adaptor or poor installation; there is loss though but inconsequential really for your purposes. If you didn't after all this time find an answer, RG-58 jumpers are all over the place from any of the mainstream cable suppliers with TNC's already on - google=friend.
http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?bgCategoryId=665933
Digikey, Mouser, R&L Electronics et al would all have this stuff too.
Happy trails
RG-58 was/is used for 10base2 networking, so some network equipment shops may still have some smaller quantities floating around (I saw a few hits on Amazon for 50-100ft rolls). Additionally, as far as connectors are concerned, can you use the standard BNC compression connectors as used by CCTV systems(this way you could skip the TNC to BNC adapter)? Also, would RG-59 be suitable? It does have a higher impedance, but is usually available by the foot at Lowes and HD etc.
BMT (RIP)
04-05-2012, 13:36
If you are at Bragg. Contact Jerry Knight Knight Electronics 910-488-2257.
Tell Jerry what you need and it'll be done right.
They will also ship to anywhere.
BMT
bravo22b
04-05-2012, 19:46
A solution presented itself in the form of a 75' RG-58 feeder line from an old GRA-50 antenna kit, found in a CONEX out back. Mil-spec stranded core cable is probably better than most of what I would get online anyway.
I already had 4 TNC crimp connectors, so I was looking to make use of them. So far I have made 3 antennas, one using the BNC connector that was already factory installed on the feeder cable. The other two antennas I used my TNC crimp connectors. After I test these to make sure I haven't screwed them up, I will make up the other two.
After that, I will be going the patch cable route. My Google-fu had already found the RG-58 patch cables for almost the same price I can buy the TNC connnectors. Seems like a no-brainer to buy a cable that already has the connector installed; it's almost certainly a better connection than I can do myself, and a lot easier.
From the responses it doesn't sound like there are any disadvantages to that method.
Electron
05-14-2012, 14:43
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19986
Look for post #15 for the NSN for RG-58A/U cable.
Watch out ordering this downrange. The SSA local nationals at Kandahar were a bunch of winners. I ordered 200 feet of RG-58. When I went to pick it up, the worker cut the cable into 1 foot lengths because the unit of issue was FT.
this antenna was tought to me by an 18E while I was deployed or IQ. I found this antenna works 100x better than the stock whip antenna. Amazing!
From my experience (both deployed to Iraq as an 11B and Robin Sage as an 18E):
Body whips are mostly affected by terrain (emphasis on my personal experience)...both natural and man-made. that also includes your own personal body. What do I mean by personal body? Two things:
1: When you weave the coax cable up/down OR left/right through webbing of your kit, you have the potential of "cutting" the ANT. Knowing that we want a GOOD SWR (preferably 1:1 - 1:5) we must build the ANT to a specific length (Freq/234)
If said ANT achieves that good SWR when stretched out, what happens to it if it is repeatedly woven at a close proximity? The potential of shortening our length happens, thus affecting the SWR. Our ANT is no longer resonant.
2: When woven, one can expect that you could potentially create a quasi-directional ANT. Example: woven on the back, the RF energy has to pass through the back plate, the kevlar of the body armor, your body itself, front kevlar, front plate, various steel/aluminum/metal mags/frags etc... then finally to the desired station.
Note, the ANT is still omni-directional, but it's distance is reduced towards the front due to the orientation of the ANT and your body's proximity.
How can one mitigate those 2 issues?
1: When weaving coax, skip over a couple of molle webbings, spread it out so it does not "cut" itself.
2: Depending on the the overall length of the coax, weave it back to the front to have some of the radiating element exposed in both directions. Also, if you have the radiating element actually touching your bare skin, your body will act as a ground and will drop the SWR 1-2 points.
Once again these are from my experiences, and what was taught to me from the Commo shed out at Sage. Overall, I've had better experience with the Blade ANT over a body whip.
If you have issues with a Blade check these things:
1: Is the Blade folded? That can be cutting the ANT making it not resonant to the Freq you're operating it on.
2: What is you PWR output? Pushing enough? I have made 35KM+ plus shots with a Blade ANT at .5 Watts numerous times
3: What is the orientation of the Blade is respects the desired station? Are the polarizations the same in respects to each other?
Having a working knowledge of HF helps alot when it comes to constructing ANTs.
From my experience (both deployed to Iraq as an 11B and Robin Sage as an 18E):
Body whips are mostly affected by terrain (emphasis on my personal experience)...both natural and man-made. that also includes your own personal body. What do I mean by personal body? Two things:
1: When you weave the coax cable up/down OR left/right through webbing of your kit, you have the potential of "cutting" the ANT. Knowing that we want a GOOD SWR (preferably 1:1 - 1:5) we must build the ANT to a specific length (Freq/234) (huh??)
If said ANT achieves that good SWR when stretched out, what happens to it if it is repeatedly woven at a close proximity? The potential of shortening our length happens, thus affecting the SWR. Our ANT is no longer resonant.
2: When woven, one can expect that you could potentially create a quasi-directional ANT. Example: woven on the back, the RF energy has to pass through the back plate, the kevlar of the body armor, your body itself, front kevlar, front plate, various steel/aluminum/metal mags/frags etc... then finally to the desired station.
Note, the ANT is still omni-directional, but it's distance is reduced towards the front due to the orientation of the ANT and your body's proximity.
How can one mitigate those 2 issues?
1: When weaving coax, skip over a couple of molle webbings, spread it out so it does not "cut" itself.
2: Depending on the the overall length of the coax, weave it back to the front to have some of the radiating element exposed in both directions. Also, if you have the radiating element actually touching your bare skin, your body will act as a ground and will drop the SWR 1-2 points.
Once again these are from my experiences, and what was taught to me from the Commo shed out at Sage. Overall, I've had better experience with the Blade ANT over a body whip.
If you have issues with a Blade check these things:
1: Is the Blade folded? That can be cutting the ANT making it not resonant to the Freq you're operating it on.
2: What is you PWR output? Pushing enough? I have made 35KM+ plus shots with a Blade ANT at .5 Watts numerous times
3: What is the orientation of the Blade is respects the desired station? Are the polarizations the same in respects to each other?
Having a working knowledge of HF helps alot when it comes to constructing ANTs.
You sure about that?? (in bold) :confused:
Also weaving you're antenna will just physicaly shorten it, it will not electricaly shorten it, so, theoretically it's still "resonant" (if cut to a specific freq)
You are correct though, changing the physical characteristics will effect radiation patterns of any antenna.
What you think you're antenna is doing, is not what it's doing.
Not raggin on ya, just adding .02 worth...
otherwise, good advice..
You sure about that?? (in bold) :confused:
Also weaving you're antenna will just physically shorten it, it will not electrically shorten it, so, theoretically it's still "resonant" (if cut to a specific freq)
You are correct though, changing the physical characteristics will effect radiation patterns of any antenna.
What you think you're antenna is doing, is not what it's doing.
Not raggin on ya, just adding .02 worth...
otherwise, good advice..
No worries, Just stating my personal exp..
We hooked up a SWR meter to the whip while we experimented with different weaving patterns and we saw a noticeable change in the SWR. Thinking back now, it may have been because we literally wove it back onto itself.
No worries, Just stating my personal exp..
We hooked up a SWR meter to the whip while we experimented with different weaving patterns and we saw a noticeable change in the SWR. Thinking back now, it may have been because we literally wove it back onto itself.
that will definetly affect it. Glad you're using the SWR, that's really the only way to find out.
good deal..