View Full Version : I am so pi$$ed
I am so pissed! A young Specialist in my unit just got popped for a DUI leaving post Saturday night. This guy was a bright, smart, “jonnie-on-the spot” troop that was great at his job…but made a crucial error in judgment. He is an E4 promotable waiting out the points game. I worked with this kid on a new commo package we put together and he was quick to understand the technology, grasp the importance of his role, when we thought we were going to go catch a falling satellite the BC assigned him to the CG’s commo team. Hell the CG just gave the kid a coin for his efforts last week and the BC instructed his NCO to write him up for AAM.
But he just screwed all of that up!! Blew a .07 at the gate leaving post. I am pissed at this kid for making a huge totally avoidable error. I am pissed that his Blue Falcon battle buddy, that had nothing to drink that day, let him drive while he just at in the passenger seat. I am pissed because this is the first DUI incident in the unit in over 3 years. I am pissed because the command just suffered the loss of some family members killed by a drunk driver and this bozo knew about that. I am pissed because I voiced my opinion to the command that this troop was one to watch, groom and nurture! I am pissed because a bright young troop just pissed way a promising career.
Again I beg everyone to be smart and do not drink and drive. Watch out for your buddy, team mates, and others. Don’t think you are bigger than the law or the law of averages, if you drink and drive it will catch up to you. I don't want to sound like the Battalion Safety Officer...but if you want to drink don't drive a damn car! It's really not that hard!
Rant off…now I gotta go find some other young troop to train and mentor. Yeah, the next one is going to get an earful about how not to make dumb mistakes!
The Reaper
03-03-2008, 16:15
I lost a great medic and outstanding 18D SSG with a DUI on a deployment as well.
At that time, it was the kiss of death, the USASFC CG withheld the filing determination authority, and it was always permanent record with him.
He got a Soldier's Medal for his actions on a deployment, and a QMP packet two weeks later. Less than a year afterwards, he was a civilian.
At least there was no accident and no one was injured.
This is not your father's army. Drinking and driving is not going to be tolerated. Everyone in a uniform needs to decide if they want to be a soldier or a civilian before they start drinking and get behind the wheel.
TR
Great post !!!!
FWIW, this should be made into a stickie.
My $0.02
Great post!
I remember the things we used to pull in the late 60's and early 70's, I believe they would lock us up and throw the key away now days.
This post needs to be required reading by all members of the military and any inductees that are going thru reception station.
clapdoc sends.
SF18C,
"ONE mistake does NOT make a man!"
Stay safe.
3SoldierDad
03-03-2008, 21:52
SF18C,
"ONE mistake does NOT make a man!"
Stay safe.
No, but one mistake can kill a whole family, a couple, a man...or another soldier.
One mistake can unmake a life.
Great post - I just sent this to my soldier sons.
Yep, darn right - Stay safe!
Three Soldier Dad.
Eagle5US
03-04-2008, 05:38
Be pissed...it was a mistake yes, but it was one I am damn happy he got CAUGHT doing.
Of course, this is especially tight with me as my younger brother was just killed 16 Feb this year by a guy who blew a .07, 3rd DUI, had beer, vodka, and 5 Rx narcotics in the car / in his system. My brother is dead none the less. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this kid.
You stuck your neck out and vouched for someone, then got your head cut off. The faith you placed in this kid has now been wasted. Don't let it prevent you from choosing the next "one to watch".
Eagle
Guy, yes I agree that "ONE mistake does NOT make a man!" But in today’s Army there are a few zero tolerance issues that everyone must abide by if they choose to be a U.S. Army Soldier; no drinking and driving, no drug abuse of any kind, and stay clear of any sexual harassment situation. These things can end a career without a second chance. E-4, O-4, SF, or conventional support troop: situational awareness and operating within the constraints of your environment will always be key to achieving success.
Eagle5, yes I agree that it was much better to get caught prior to ending someone’s life.
I am not too bothered by the fact that I stuck my neck out for this kid but you can be damn sure that the next one will get the common sense discussion! With these young and upcoming troops I try to not cross the line into what is an NCO’s job but for better or worse they do look up to me as “the old SF guy” and I truly want to bring the best out in them. I work with them, I train with them, and I deploy with them…someday it’s like having my own little G-camp! It just burns me that THEY know better than this. I don’t want to sound as if I am holier-than-thou; yes I drink - sometimes way too much; I live in Italy, the land of wine and Grappa, you can get awesome Cuban Rum here, and I am only a few hours away from great German Pilsners; yes I have been know to “tie-one-on” but the simple rule I use- if I start drinking I stop driving.
I remember the things we used to pull in the late 60's and early 70's, I believe they would lock us up and throw the key away now days.
Clapdoc: Mine goes back to the late 50s early 60s. How very lucky we were not to have ruined our careers/lives or some innocents life.
Agree this should be required learning on all levels or rank or responsibilities.
No, but one mistake can kill a whole family, a couple, a man...or another soldier.
One mistake can unmake a life.
Great post - I just sent this to my soldier sons.
Yep, darn right - Stay safe!
Three Soldier Dad.I hire kids all the time! The problem is with the parents and society...
Instead of letting their asses remain in jail; they are immediately bailed out; lawyers hired and charges reduced or dropped. WTF kinda of lesson is that?
I have a guy here that started his own HVAC company and is pulling in $200K/yr NET! You oughtta hear his story about previous screw ups yet...some "old" SOB put foot in his ass and he straightened up.:lifter
SF18C,
Don't preach to me about "Todays" Army! The majority of the Army is sitting on their collective asses in "secured" bases generating Power Point slides and enforcing assinine directives.
The kid screwed up and he has to pay-the-piper! I know of GOs, SNCOs and politicians that have done the same thing...it wasn't the end of the world for them?
Stay safe.
BTW...If you're caught drinking & driving in CA...your car is gone and I totally agree.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-04-2008, 09:39
I I know of GOs, SNCOs and politicians that have done the same thing...it wasn't the end of the world for them?Stay safe.
I think we all do, but that further compounds the problem when it comes to the application of fair and impartial punishment and makes a mockery of the system. It becomes a good lesson in what happens with the application of situational ethics. I can remember back when happy hour was a command performance and if you did not drink then you were considered a pariah and careers were destroyed as quickly for those that did not drink back then as those that are destroyed today by those that do.
I think we all do, but that further compounds the problem when it comes to the application of fair and impartial punishment and makes a mockery of the system. It becomes a good lesson in what happens with the application of situational ethics. I can remember back when happy hour was a command performance and if you did not drink then you were considered a pariah and careers were destroyed as quickly for those that did not drink back then as those that are destroyed today by those that do.It's common on the civilian side also.
Stay safe.
Team Sergeant
03-04-2008, 10:03
It's common on the civilian side also.
Stay safe.
Yes, Senator edward m. kennedy comes to mind.
A date with edward m. kennedy: get drunk, have an accident, kill a nice little girl and run away.....
Watched the Kennedy endorsement of Obama a couple of weeks ago on CNN with my 17 y.o. daughter. When I gave her the background on Teddy she wanted to know why he wasn’t in prison instead of in office!:confused:
Yes, Senator edward m. kennedy comes to mind.
A date with edward m. kennedy: get drunk, have an accident, kill a nice little girl and run away.....Someone took a picture of us downtown Baghdad picking up some beer.:eek:
The only problem was...it wasn't for us!
"If we get hit picking this up, someone better have a damn good explaination."
Stay safe.
Be pissed...it was a mistake yes, but it was one I am damn happy he got CAUGHT doing.
Of course, this is especially tight with me as my younger brother was just killed 16 Feb this year by a guy who blew a .07, 3rd DUI, had beer, vodka, and 5 Rx narcotics in the car / in his system. My brother is dead none the less. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this kid.
Eagle
Sorry to hear about your brother, Eagle.
I just don't understand people in general these days. As I stated elsewhere I just returned home after 15 months in Iraq. During those 15 months I watched all three of my platoon SGT's get relieved of duty due to incompetence, misappropriation of military property, sleeping with enlisted and officer alike, while being married to someone else, as well as watching all three platoon leaders relieved of duty for the same. Also several soldiers, all medics, were busted for either the same type of thing or for using over the counter drugs illicitly. I wanted to smack somebody for all the stupidity running rampant. We were in a friggin combat zone for God's sake! and we were the ones people would cry for first when the s**t hit the fan and someone went down. :confused:
Selfishness and self centered behavior is what it amounts to, along with a total disregard for those around them.
As I grow older my father has become the smartest man I know. Funny thing, that.
Mick
Dominus_Potior
03-06-2008, 06:40
Wow, I heard about this incident here on Ederle. We brief all our Soldiers on what happened, and to use that as an example of what not to do.
Guess what....one of the Soldiers (an NCO) got one too. The blotter is strong here in Italy.
Societal perceptions are funny things. Once upon a time, the drunk - including drunken drivers - were perceived as harmless buffoons. Clearly, that's no longer the case. Now they are seen as potential killers, which of course they are.
But isn't it interesting that cell-phone usage can be just as bad a problem?
"We found that people are as impaired when they drive and talk on a cell phone as they are when they drive intoxicated at the legal blood-alcohol limit” of 0.08 percent, which is the minimum level that defines illegal drunken driving in most U.S. states, says study co-author Frank Drews, an assistant professor of psychology. “If legislators really want to address driver distraction, then they should consider outlawing cell phone use while driving.”
Source Link (http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1)
And yet, I see people driving and using their cell-phone all the time. They clearly see nothing wrong in their practices.
And no, I don't drink. Or own a cell-phone.
I hire kids all the time! The problem is with the parents and society...
Instead of letting their asses remain in jail; they are immediately bailed out; lawyers hired and charges reduced or dropped. WTF kinda of lesson is that?
I have a guy here that started his own HVAC company and is pulling in $200K/yr NET! You oughtta hear his story about previous screw ups yet...some "old" SOB put foot in his ass and he straightened up.:lifter
SF18C,
Don't preach to me about "Todays" Army! The majority of the Army is sitting on their collective asses in "secured" bases generating Power Point slides and enforcing assinine directives.
The kid screwed up and he has to pay-the-piper! I know of GOs, SNCOs and politicians that have done the same thing...it wasn't the end of the world for them?
Stay safe.
BTW...If you're caught drinking & driving in CA...your car is gone and I totally agree.
As a second chance survivor, I cannot echo Guy enough. Not like he needs it from me.
I tend to question absolute marked opinions of people if they are as good as this gentleman as you say. Shame he cannot pay a penance and make it back in if allowed some day. Maybe not.
I have never believed in anyone like I have myself. My journey is finding others just like me, so maybe that's why I tend to believe in other people - I have been there, with nobody thinking I would/could make it. To me everyone can make it.
Try not to give up on the people that learn from a lesson, because we all do. Hopefully things change for this man, maybe he finds another opportunity.
I always look for the good in good people.
The Reaper
03-07-2008, 08:04
As a second chance survivor, I cannot echo Guy enough. Not like he needs it from me.
I tend to question absolute marked opinions of people if they are as good as this gentleman as you say. Shame he cannot pay a penance and make it back in if allowed some day. Maybe not.
I have never believed in anyone like I have myself. My journey is finding others just like me, so maybe that's why I tend to believe in other people - I have been there, with nobody thinking I would/could make it. To me everyone can make it.
Try not to give up on the people that learn from a lesson, because we all do. Hopefully things change for this man, maybe he finds another opportunity.
I always look for the good in good people.
The Army decided that based on historical information, soldiers who get one DUI are likely to continue to drink and drive.
Years of time and millions of dollars in substance abuse programs, up to and including resident in-patient treatment programs for extended periods of time have failed to turn most of these people around.
I usually thought that most of my soldiers were salvagable, and deserved a second chance, but I suspect that the majority of them have continued to drink and drive since getting the first DUI. And you know that if a soldier has a previous DUI, stays on active duty, and crashes into a van full of kids on his next one, that will be the lead story on all of the news channels.
Once our society changed from laughing at drunken drivers to a zero tolerance policy, the smart and responsible troops (and citizens) got the message and quit doing it. IIRC, the pendulum swung that way in the 80s, so most of the soldiers being cited today were not even born when drinking and driving was acceptable, and have always been told that it was unsat.
IMHO, the first guy to get burned by the CoC for a DUI may have a gripe. Everyone after that knew drinking and driving would not be tolerated and would result in serious admin or UCMJ action. During my time in the military, I have heard all of the excuses, and none of them are good anymore.
Times have changed.
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-07-2008, 11:15
IMHO, the first guy to get burned by the CoC for a DUI may have a gripe. Everyone after that knew drinking and driving would not be tolerated and would result in serious admin or UCMJ action. During my time in the military, I have heard all of the excuses, and none of them are good anymore.
Times have changed.
TR
I absolutely agree and having had folks careers' under the stroke of my pen I can tell you that it is an absolute bitch to end someone's career. But, given all the information, the classes, the emphasis by everyone up and down the chain of command, and the fact that you are expected to follow the damn rules, if you cannot adhere to what is a no tolerance policy what else are you not going to adhere to because it just doesn't suit you? This is not about giving someone a second chance this is about maturity and being able to be trusted. You violate my trust and you are history PERIOD.
Bush & Cheney have had DUIs....:munchin
Stay safe.
rubberneck
03-07-2008, 14:10
Bush & Cheney have had DUIs....:munchin
Stay safe.
I laughed when I read the Reapers post when he mentioned how it was once acceptable to drink and drive, as I am old enough to remember those days.
When I was a freshman at the University of Wisconsin in 1987 Bob Kasten, the then Junior Senator from the state, was arrested for this third or fourth DUI. It was right around then that MADD had really gotten a toe hold and still only about a third of the people polled thought it was a big deal. The college Republican's named their ticket in the student elections the "BKSOD" short for the Bob Kasten school of driving.
I am glad that we have evolved to the point that we have no tolerance for drunk driving. Back in August my 18 year old niece was killed by an illegal immigrant who had spent the entire day inside a bottle. 18 years old and everything to live for and it was taken from her for no good reason. It is only a minor miracle that the illegal's wife and 18 month old somehow survived the crash.
treykane
03-07-2008, 15:21
But isn't it interesting that cell-phone usage can be just as bad a problem?
...
And yet, I see people driving and using their cell-phone all the time. They clearly see nothing wrong in their practices.
There are a few cities that have banned cell phones while driving, making it just like a seat belt or traffic violation. However, I think that they have the stipulation of being able to use a hands free device.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4414 (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4414)
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-07-2008, 15:41
Bush & Cheney have had DUIs....:munchin
Stay safe.
And your point is?
And your point is?The guy made a mistake and only "one" that we are aware of. I'm glad he was caught early on before he continued with his dumbass ways.
I hope he pays for it; if it was up to me I'd bring back CCF...The "old" version.:lifter
Stay safe.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-08-2008, 09:24
if it was up to me I'd bring back CCF...The "old" version.:lifter
Stay safe.
They were nasty places. The troops would do anything to get out of there-even work for me:D I had a company that had some problems getting cooks and wheel vehicle mechanics. I went down to the CCF, asked to see all the spoons and wrench turners they had and interviewed them. Told them that if they wanted to work for me and work their assess off they could work off their time with me but if they screwed up I would escort them back to the hole. Consequently we had the best damn dining facility on post and a motor pool that passed the IG with no gigs. They were happy campers to say the least.
They were nasty places. The troops would do anything to get out of there-even work for me:D I had a company that had some problems getting cooks and wheel vehicle mechanics. I went down to the CCF, asked to see all the spoons and wrench turners they had and interviewed them. Told them that if they wanted to work for me and work their assess off they could work off their time with me but if they screwed up I would escort them back to the hole. Consequently we had the best damn dining facility on post and a motor pool that passed the IG with no gigs. They were happy campers to say the least.I was little wild in 81 and got sent to CCF for 7days, in the middle of the Summer, in Georgia; they about killed me.:o Not one person in there did NOT pray to God for some relief!
If I had my way, get a DUI...Your NCO would take you straight to CCF. :lifter
Stay safe.
I searched but could not find what CCF is, my guess is I've not been in the army long enough. Could someone give it a quick description.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-08-2008, 12:05
Correctional Custody Facility=local military jail.
I searched but could not find what CCF is, my guess is I've not been in the army long enough. Could someone give it a quick description.
Google produced some hits. Here's a link that may be of use, even though it is based on a USAF version.
LINK (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBP/is_10_48/ai_n6330783)
My apologies if I'm in error.
Team Sergeant
03-08-2008, 13:15
Correctional Custody Facility=local military jail.
That's not the name we gave it back in 1978...... IIRC it was called Charley's Chicken Farm....:D
I believe my son's unit (2/505 abn. 82nd) has lost two guys from being hit by drunk drivers. These is after spending 15 months in Sammara, Iraq. It boggles the mind.
So the question becomes, why do people feel such a strong need to drink? I suspect that the sequence for DUI is that an individual goes out, drinks to excess, then drives. But it's possible to go out and drink non-alcoholic beverages.
Do people drink because of social pressure, or because of an intense need for the effects alcohol produces? Why do people risk careers, their family, their freedom - and even lives (their own, or other's). My impression is that it's a sickness; but I don't claim to know.
GratefulCitizen
03-08-2008, 20:58
So the question becomes, why do people feel such a strong need to drink? I suspect that the sequence for DUI is that an individual goes out, drinks to excess, then drives. But it's possible to go out and drink non-alcoholic beverages.
Do people drink because of social pressure, or because of an intense need for the effects alcohol produces? Why do people risk careers, their family, their freedom - and even lives (their own, or other's). My impression is that it's a sickness; but I don't claim to know.
Perhaps it's a sickness in a medical sense.
In a practical sense, it's selfishness.
Everyone has problems and emotions.
The emotional burdens borne by some may be greater than those borne by others.
How someone copes is a matter of personal choice.
Deliberately choosing a method and circumstance of coping which may lead to the spreading of one's problems onto others is a selfish choice.