"Troops mass on Colombia’s borders" (Chavez again)

[SF18C]

Another crazy on the loose

Chavez orders troops to Colombian border (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23435878)

updated 1:55 p.m. ET March 2, 2008
CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez on Sunday ordered thousands of troops to the border with Colombia after Colombia's military killed a top rebel leader.

Chavez told his defense minister: "Move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." He also ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Colombia closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn.

The announcements by Venezuela's leftist leader pushed relations to their tensest point of his nine-year presidency, and Chavez warned that Colombia could spark a war in South America.

He called the U.S.-allied government in Bogota "a terrorist state" and labeled President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal."

The leftist leader warned that Colombia’s slaying of rebel spokesman Raul Reyes could spark a war.

“It wasn’t any combat. It was a cowardly murder, all of it coldly calculated,” Chavez said.

“We pay tribute to a true revolutionary, who was Raul Reyes,” Chavez said, recalling that he had met rebel in Brazil in 1995 and calling him a “good revolutionary.”

Chavez: Colombia 'the Israel' of region
Chavez said he had just spoken to Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa and that Ecuador was also sending troops to its border with Colombia.

“The Colombian government has become the Israel of Latin America,” an agitated Chavez said, mentioning another country that he has criticized for its military strikes. “We aren’t going to permit Colombia to become the Israel of these lands.”

Chavez accused Uribe of being a puppet of Washington and acting on behalf of the U.S. government, saying “Dracula’s fangs (are) are covered in blood.”

“Some day Colombia will be freed from the hand of the (U.S.) empire,” Chavez said. “We have to liberate Colombia,” he added, saying Colombia’s people will eventually do away with its government.

The U.S. State Department had no immediate reaction to Chavez’s comments.

On Saturday, Chavez cautioned Uribe against similar military strikes along Venezuela’s border.

“Don’t think about doing that over here, because it would very serious, it would be cause for war,” Chavez said. “How far is President Uribe willing to go in his warlike madness?”

Chavez, who maintains warm relations with the Colombian guerrilla group, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, said that “it was obscene to see the smiling faces” of Colombian military commanders standing behind Colombian Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos as he announced the death of FARC spokesman Raul Reyes and 16 other rebels on Saturday.

Colombia defends incursion
On Sunday, Colombia defended its decision to carry out the raid, saying it acted in self-defense.

“The terrorists, among them Raul Reyes, have had the custom of killing in Colombia and taking refuge in the territory of neighboring countries. Many times Colombia has suffered from this situation that we must avoid to protect our citizens,” a Foreign Ministry statement said.

Ecuador has done little to try to remove the heavily armed fighters from Colombia’s conflict who cross the long, porous border into its territory.

Colombia’s military tracked Reyes’ location through an informant and bombed a camp on its side of the Ecuadorean border, where Reyes was thought to be, Santos said. Ground troops moved in but came under attack from another camp across the border in Ecuador. When the military overran that camp, they found Reyes’ body, Santos said.

Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa said Uribe had informed him of the raid but later announced that he was misled after Ecuadorean officials inspected a bombed rebel camp.

Ecuador: 'Airspace was violated'
“The (Colombian) president either was poorly informed or brazenly lied to the president of Ecuador,” said Correa, who called home the ambassador to Colombia for consultation and promised a diplomatic note of protest.

“Clearly Ecuadorean airspace was violated” in the bombing, Correa said.

Uribe earlier called Reyes’ death a step forward in defeating terrorism.

“Today we’ve taken another step in the process of recuperating the respect of the people of Colombia, the respect that our people deserve,” Uribe told a news conference.

Combatants in Colombia’s bitter four-decade conflict frequently cross borders with Ecuador and Venezuela, creating friction between the neighbors.

Colombia and Venezuela have been locked in a diplomatic crisis since November, when Uribe ended Chavez’s official role negotiating a proposed hostages-for-prisoners swap.

Nevertheless, the FARC freed four hostages to Venezuelan officials last week, and they were reunited with their families in Caracas. It was the second unilateral release by the FARC this year.

Chavez has recently angered Uribe by urging world leaders to classify the leftist rebels as “insurgents” rather than “terrorists.”

The FARC has proposed trading some 40 remaining high-value captives, including former Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt and three U.S. defense contractors, for hundreds of imprisoned guerrillas.

[nito8777]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23435878


Troops mass on Colombia’s borders
Leaders of Ecuador, Venezuela warn action against rebels could bring war


CARACAS, Venezuela - The leaders of Colombia and Ecuador ordered troops to their borders with Colombia after the killing a top rebel leader on Ecuadorean soil.

But Colombia said documents seized at the rebel camp hit by its commandos indicate Ecuador's president is deepening relations with Colombia's main guerrilla group.

Denouncing Colombia's slaying of Raul Reyes' slaying in Ecuador, President Hugo Chavez said Venezuela will respond militarily if Colombia violates its border. He ordered Venezuela's embassy in Bogota closed.

"Mr. Defense Minister, move 10 battalions to the border with Colombia for me, immediately — tank battalions. Deploy the air force," Chavez said during his weekly TV and radio program. "We don't want war, but we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire, which is the master (of Colombia) ... to come divide us."

Chavez called Colombian President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal" and branded his government a "terrorist state," likening it to Israel for its U.S.-backed attacks on militants.

Ecuador: ‘No justification’
Ecuador withdrew its ambassador from Bogota, ordered Colombia's top diplomat expelled and ordered the mobilization of troops to the border with Colombia.

Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, said Colombia deliberately carried out the strike beyond its borders. "There is no justification," Correa said Sunday night, snubbing an earlier announcement from Colombia that it would apologize for the incursion.

Colombian officials have long complained that Ecuador's military does not control its sparsely populated border, allowing rebels to take refuge.

The same holds true for Venezuela, where rebel deserters say the guerrillas routinely rest, train, obtain medical care and smuggle drugs. Chavez denies that his country provides refuge to the FARC.

In a statement, Colombia said FARC fighters "have had the custom of killing in Colombia and taking refuge in the territory of neighboring countries."

Documents refer to Ecuador-rebel ties
The two documents found by Colombian forces in a computer at the rebel camp, obtained independently by The Associated Press, were apparently written by Reyes in the past two months. They are addressed to the high command of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.

Reyes was killed early Saturday in a raid at a rebel camp just inside Ecuadorean territory.

"These documents raise the question of what the relation of Ecuador's government is with a terrorist organization," Gen. Oscar Naranjo, the police commander, told a late-night news conference.

He said Colombia's government would demand an explanation of Correa's government for relations with the FARC that "in our opinion affects Colombia's national security."

One of the documents, a word-processing file dated Jan. 18, said Reyes had met with Ecuador's minister of internal security, Gustavo Larrea, and the two had discussed Correa's "interest in making official relations with the FARC."

The document says Correa is prepared to make changes in his military leadership, that he refuses to back the Colombian government in its condemnation of the FARC, and that the Ecuadorean president wants to get involved in efforts to secure a prisoner swap between the FARC and the Colombian government.

Correa also proposes to increase commercial and political ties with Asia, principally with China, Vietnam and North Korea, according to the document.

Photocopies of the files were provided to the AP by a senior member of Colombia's security forces, on condition he not be further identified because of their sensitivity.

The Jan. 18 document also says that Correa will cancel next year permission for U.S. surveillance planes to use a base at Manta, Ecuador, something he has already announced.

Fifteen rebels found dead
Correa said the rebels were "bombed and massacred as they slept, using precision technology." He said Colombia violated Ecuador's airspace when it bombed the rebel camp, which the Colombian military said was located 1.1 miles from the border.

Ecuadorean soldiers recovered the semi-nude bodies of 15 rebels in their jungle camp. Soldiers stood guard at the site, saying they also found three wounded women, who were evacuated by helicopter to be treated. One was a Mexican philosophy student injured by shrapnel, while the other two wounded guerrillas were Colombians, an Ecuadorean army officer said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to journalists.

Ecuadorean officials found that there were two bomb attacks on the camp early Saturday, Lt. Col. Jose Nunez told reporters in the remote village of Angostura, where the bodies were found.

Colombian commandos removed the cadavers of Reyes and one other rebel.

Chavez called the raid "cowardly murder, all of it coldly calculated."

"This could be the start of a war in South America," Chavez said. He warned Uribe: "If it occurs to you to do this in Venezuela, President Uribe, I'll send some Sukhois" — Russian warplanes recently bought by Venezuela.

The situation tested already tense relations between Venezuela and Colombia, though cross-border trade has not yet been seriously affected.

Chavez did not specify how many troops was sending to the border. A Venezuelan battalion traditionally has roughly 600 soldiers.

"Undoubtedly the recent actions on the part of Colombia and Venezuela's response raise the risk for armed conflict," said Miguel Tinker Salas, a Latin American studies professor at Pomona College in Claremont, California. "Although it is unlikely we will see military confrontations, what is clear is that Colombia has been pursuing a military solution to its own internal problem, ... drawing in Ecuador and Venezuela."

Chavez has increasingly revealed his sympathies for the FARC, and in January asked that it be struck from lists of terrorist groups internationally. But he has denied

Four decades of fighting
The leftist FARC has been fighting Colombia's government for more than four decades, and funds itself largely through the cocaine trade and kidnaps for ransom and political ends.

Reyes was the FARC's key interlocutor with journalists and with foreign governments trying to mediate in the conflict, and thus the member of its leadership most vulnerable to being located, though eavesdropping or other intelligence.

Chavez said that with U.S. support, Colombian troops "invaded Ecuador, flagrantly violating Ecuador's sovereignty."

U.S Embassy spokeswoman Suzanne Hall, in Bogota, declined comment on the possibility of U.S. involvement, saying it was a Colombian government operation.

U.S. calls Chavez move ‘odd reaction’
In Texas, U.S. National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said of Chavez's latest moves: "This is an odd reaction by Venezuela to Colombia's efforts against the FARC, a terrorist organization that continues to hold Colombians, Americans and others hostage."

How exactly Reyes was killed was not immediately clear.

Colombia's defense minister, Juan Manuel Santos, said Colombian commandos, tracking Reyes through an informant, first bombed a camp on the Colombian side of the Ecuadorean border. He said the troops came under fire from across the border in Ecuador and encountered Reyes' body when they overran that camp.

Colombia and Venezuela have been locked in a diplomatic crisis since Uribe sought in November to halt Chavez's efforts to mediate a prisoner swap. The FARC has since freed six hostages to delegates of Chavez, including four released last week.

The FARC has demanded that a safe zone be created in Colombia to negotiate a swap of some 40 high-value captives, including former presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt and three U.S. defense contractors, for hundreds of imprisoned guerrillas.

[SF_BHT]

They forgot to put in that Colombia told the Ecuadorians (President) prior to the attack and the two presidents agreed to the Opn.

Chavez is a Nut and needs to be dealt with by his people before they have nothing left that works in the country. It was such a beautiful country Pre-Chavez and now he gives 90% of their Oil wealth away to other places to support his quest to rid the plague of the US as he puts it.

[rubberneck]

How good is Colombia's military? I know we have spent a lot of time and money training them but I don't have a clue as to how good they are right now. Would they eat Chavez's lunch for him or would it be a pretty even fight?

[The Reaper]

How good is Colombia's military? I know we have spent a lot of time and money training them but I don't have a clue as to how good they are right now. Would they eat Chavez's lunch for him or would it be a pretty even fight?

The Colombian armed forces are largely structured for a counter-insurgency effort, but based on my training over the years with both forces, I would give the edge to the Colombian military, as they have many more combat vets, better readiness, and the Venezuelans are victims of Chavez' hyperbole.

This in not, IMHO, a serious threat, but you have to wonder about a neighbor who would mobilize in support of insurgents in your nation. What other support has he been providing? Should we go kick HIS ass, and take HIS oil?

Edited to clarify, "we" being the Colombians, who actually have their own booming oil business. - TR

TR

[Kyobanim]

Should we go kick HIS ass, and take HIS oil?


Yes.

[monsterhunter]

Interesting thought came to me while reading this thread. I was sitting here thinking how lunatics, such as Chavez, can come to lead a nation. There's definitely been no shortage of them. Then I recalled we are danger close to Hillary or Obama coming into power.:eek:

[The Reaper]

Interesting thought came to me while reading this thread. I was sitting here thinking how lunatics, such as Chavez, can come to lead a nation. There's definitely been no shortage of them. Then I recalled we are danger close to Hillary or Obama coming into power.:eek:

While still an Army officer, Chavez was a key member in an attempted coup in the early 1990s.

He was only detained briefly, and suffered no ill-effects.

I would have supposed that someone who had previously attempted to overthrow the legitimately elected leadership of his nation might be denied the opportunity to later participate in the democratic process, but it would appear that is not an issue in Venezuela.

His close engagement with the felonious leadership of the FARC and ELN have shown his true colors yet again.

Another corrupt leader who diverts attention away from serious internal problems by tilting at windmills and issuing empty rhetoric.:rolleyes:

TR

[Psywar1-0]

While still an Army officer, Chavez was a key member in an attempted coup in the early 1990s.

He was only detained briefly, and suffered no ill-effects.

I would have supposed that someone who had previously attempted to overthrow the legitimately elected leadership of his nation might be denied the opportunity to later participate in the democratic process, but it would appear that is not an issue in Venezuela.

His close engagement with the felonious leadership of the FARC and ELN have shown his true colors yet again.

Another corrupt leader who diverts attention away from serious internal problems by tilting at windmills and issuing empty rhetoric.:rolleyes:

TR

There was quite a debate during the summer of 98 wondering if the sitting President would issue a pardon to Chavez to allow him to officially start his campaign for the presidency. The pardon was issued and the rest is history.

[D9 (RIP)]

Colombia's military is not bad by international standards. Many of them are hardened by combat. They suffer somewhat from the kind of motivational problems that are inherent in non-professional armies within their conscripted units. But the professional units are decent soldiers who don't mind suffering in the field to get to the objective. Some are superb soldiers.

With the exception of some special operations units, NCOs do not have a great deal of responsibility which is a typical pattern outside of our military. There is also evidence that this philosophy is changing because of US influence, which will only improve their forces.

The greatest advantage for Venezuela in a conflict like this is superior equipment and a superior air force. Colombian's are aware of this and frequently bemoan Venezuela's technological edge in air and armor. But most of terrain between the two armies would sharply diminish the viability of air and armor.

I think the Colombians would make the Venezuelans pay too stiff a price for any ingression. I think Chavez knows this. I think he believes we would help Colombian as well if he were to gain the momentum, and I hope his suspicions are right.

[FILO]

IMHO, armed condflict between Colombia and Venezuela is meaningless. Unless either army conducts airborne or airmobile operations on their opponents capital with multiple brigade sized units with sufficent sustainable logistics, highly unlikely, there is no victory for either force given the terrain and resources available. Both sides realize this, thus in my view it ain't going to happen. I agree entirely regarding Chavez and his motivations.

[The antihero]

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWVlODQ4ZDNjOGEwOWJiNTJhYzRjOGM1YjAwNGFlYzk=#mo re

[Sdiver]

Looks as if 'ol Hugo, might have been caught with his hand in the "cookie" jar.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335128,00.html

BOGOTA, Colombia — Files in a laptop computer seized from the wreckage of a Colombian rebel camp in Ecuador offer new insights into Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's desire to undermine Colombia's U.S.-allied government.

If authentic, the computer files suggest Chavez has been in league with the rebels for more than a decade.

While Chavez is not one of the correspondents, his sentiments are conveyed in numerous messages exchanged by the rebels.

Venezuela contends the texts are lies and fabrications.

If so, they are expertly done.

Not only do they offer an unprecedented glimpse into the rebels' mind-set, they also reflect deepening rebel contacts with European governments and even representatives of the United States, who have tried to negotiate the release of dozens of hostages.

They are signed electronically by the most powerful men in the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, the hemisphere's oldest and most potent rebel movement.

Those signing the documents include Raul Reyes, the FARC's foreign minister and public face, who was killed when Colombian commandos raided his jungle hideout in Ecuador on Saturday. His killing, along with 23 of his comrades, struck a chilling blow to the group.

Others who signed messages include Manuel Marulanda, the rebels' 77-year-old supreme leader; Jorge Briceno, their much-feared field marshal, and Ivan Marquez, the insurgents' apparent go-between with Chavez. Marquez is believed to live in Venezuela.

Copies of 13 documents were sent to reporters Tuesday by Colombia's national police chief, Gen. Oscar Naranjo. He revealed their existence Sunday as his government came under a withering diplomatic attack for violating Ecuador's territory with the raid.

They indicate that Chavez, seeking to raise the FARC's stature and relieve it of its international pariah status, shares their goal of isolating and discrediting Colombia's president, Alvaro Uribe.

But do they prove that Venezuela was actually financing the FARC's bid to overthrow a democratically elected government? That's not clear.

Naranjo alleges that the number "300," also called the "dossier" in a Dec. 23 message signed by Marquez, refers to a $300 million gift from Chavez to the rebels.

In a Jan. 14 missive, Briceno discusses what to do with the "dossier."

"Who, where, when and how will we receive the dollars and store them?" he asks fellow members of the FARC's seven-man ruling secretariat.

Uribe has worked as no other Colombian president to defeat the FARC. So it's no surprise that in the Jan. 14 message, Briceno discusses a desire to undermine Uribe by making him cede a safe haven to the rebels for talks on a prisoner swap.

"Uribe will become more isolated, together with his boss from the North," the text says — a clear reference to President Bush, whose government provides Colombia with some $600 million a year in military aid.

In a document dated Feb. 9, Marquez passes along Chavez's thanks for a $150,000 gift when he was imprisoned from 1992-94 for leading a failed coup — and indicates Chavez's desire to smear Uribe.

In it, Marquez says Venezuela wants documentation of damage by Colombia's military to "the civilian population, also images of bombardments in the jungle and its devastation — to use as a denunciation before the world."

In a Feb. 8 letter, Marquez discusses Chavez's plan to try to persuade leading Latin American nations to help get the FARC removed from lists of international terror groups.

And at least three of the documents express Chavez's deep desire to meet with Marulanda, hopefully on Venezuelan soil. Marulanda has reportedly never left Colombia.

Marquez also says Chavez is prepared to offer Venezuelan territory for the FARC's desired prisoner swap, which would be a huge embarrassment for Uribe. The FARC has proposed exchanging some 40 hostages, including three U.S. military contractors, for hundreds of rebels currently in Colombia's jails. The FARC captured the three when their surveillance plane crashed in February 2003.

In the Feb. 9 letter, Marquez also relays Chavez's concern about the 60-year U.S. prison sentence given to FARC commander Ricardo Palmera for conspiring to hold the three Americans hostage. He writes that Chavez "was disposed to hire paid lawyers," presumably for Palmera.

The messages indicate Chavez believes his rebel sympathies may have hurt him politically. One communication said Chavez told a rebel contact that this public support may have contributed to his loss of a Dec. 2 referendum that would have consolidated his power.

Chavez's ally, Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa, was similarly engaged with the rebels, the documents indicate.

Before Saturday's raid, Correa's official position was that he wouldn't take sides. But in a Jan. 18 message, Reyes says he received Ecuadorean Internal Security Minister Gustavo Larrea and another envoy who expressed Correa's interest "in making official relations with the FARC's leadership."

Correa's government was willing "to change officers in the security forces who have been hostile to communities and civilians" in the border area where the FARC has camps, Reyes said. Ecuador even offered to "give documentation and protection to one of ours," he wrote.

Larrea has acknowledged the meeting but said it was only to press for the hostages' release.

The rebels have released six hostages — all Colombian politicians — since Uribe tried to end Chavez's mediation role with the FARC in November, accusing the Venezuelan president of overstepping his mandate. The most recent to be freed said last week that hostage Ingrid Betancourt, a former presidential candidate who also holds French citizenship, is extremely ill.

Betancourt has become a cause celebre in France. French contacts with Reyes are mentioned in several documents, including a request that the French envoy, identified only as "Noe," be granted a meeting with Marulanda.

References to U.S. diplomatic overtures are scintillating, if vague.

In a Dec. 11 message to the secretariat, Marquez writes: "If you are in agreement, I can receive Jim and Tucker to hear the proposal of the gringos."

Writing two days before his death, Reyes tells his comrades that "the gringos," working through Ecuador's government, are interested "in talking to us on various issues."

"They say the new president of their country will be (Barack) Obama," he writes, saying Obama rejects both the Bush administration's free trade agreement with Colombia and the current military aid program.

Reyes writes that his response to the Americans was that the United States would have to publicly express these positions.

[nito8777]

Chavez calls Colombia raid a 'war crime'




CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Wednesday called a Colombian raid that killed two dozen rebels in Ecuador a "war crime," and joined Ecuador's president in demanding international condemnation of the cross-border attack.

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"We demand condemnation of the Colombian government for this aberrant act," Chavez said, standing beside Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa.

Correa said he welcomed a resolution approved by the Organization of American States that concluded the attack violated Ecuador's sovereignty, but added he is looking for an explicit condemnation of the Colombian strike.

"We are using all the peaceful and diplomatic channels available for the international community to condemn the aggressor," Correa said.

The two made the demand amid a series of accusations and insults against Colombia's U.S.-allied government. Chavez called Colombia a "genocidal government," accused President Alvaro Uribe of backing illegal right-wing paramilitary groups and questioned the Colombian leader's sanity.

Chavez laughed as he dismissed accusations by Uribe's government that Venezuela had sent financial support to Colombia's rebels.

And as for some $6 billion in annual trade between Venezuela and Colombia, Chavez predicted "that's coming down."

"We aren't interested in Colombian investments here," Chavez said. Noting that Colombia traditional supplies food to Venezuela, he said that now "we can't depend (on Colombia) not even for a grain of rice."

[TheLion03]

IMHO, this is just another way for Chavez to get attention. I also believe the chances of them even shooting at one another are slim to none. This seems like aggressive posturing on Chavez's part to get more money from somewhere so he will not start a war. But on the other hand i could be 100% wrong and they will go at it tooth and nail.


Just my .02 cents

[rubberneck]

Correa said he welcomed a resolution approved by the Organization of American States that concluded the attack violated Ecuador's sovereignty, but added he is looking for an explicit condemnation of the Colombian strike.

Offering safe harbor to FARC leadership pretty much makes it a moot point. I am tired of the "international community" pretending that it is ok to offer material support to various rebel groups around the world but it isn't ok when someone does something about it. If Ecuador doesn't like having their sovereignty violated than they should do something about it, other than crying.